Prices-- what is it about hardwood pulpwood?

[eamassey]

Our local pulpwood dealer has raised prices to $45/ton effective Monday morning.  That price is delivered to his yard.  Meanwhile, the local pine (mostly) sawmill is also paying $45 for pine sawlogs delivered to their mill. 

I can remember selling 3,000 tons of hardwood pulpwood some years ago at $4/ton as stumpage-- while selling about that much low grade pine logs for $32/ton stumpage. And even at $4/ton they would not take hickory.

What is driving hardwood pulpwood prices?         My location is SouthWest Arkansas.

eam

[jeremiahdixon]

Their demand for paper has gone up so high. I cut pulpwood timber only right now and am hauling it to kentucky. I have looked into cutting pulp for some of you loggers in Arkansas but arent sure I could get enough money to travel down there or not while the market is good. I did talk to a guy the other day from Arkansas who is selling his wood in Ashland Tx for 55 a ton.

[ihookem]

How much is that a cord? In Wisconsin I think they go by the cord. I think it's 35 a cord up here.

[WDH]

The big driver is weather.  This has been a record winter in the South for rain.  Many places are double the normal rainfall.  This has made logging hardwood pulpwood in many areas almost impossible.  Therefore, the prices have soared due to good demand and poor availability.

The price will plummet just as much once it dries back out to more normal conditions, so take advantage of the opportunity if you can. 

[trim4u2nv]

celulosa arauco one of the largest pulp suppliers in the world was  affected by the earthquake in chile this prior saturday

[Phorester]

Do you know if they supply hardwood or pine pulp, and about what's their annual production?

[trim4u2nv]

I believe it is plantation (radiata pine.)  698, 725, 750 thousand tons, 2q08 1q09 2q09

http://www.pandct.com/media/shownews.asp?ID=18295

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100302-715373.html?mod=WSJ_World_MIDDLEHeadlinesEurope

[lumberjack48]

 Hardwood runs 4 ton to a cord, thats $180.00 a cord thats dam good money

[beenthere]

Hardwood runs 4 ton to a cord, thats $180.00 a cord thats "DanG" good money

Is that the conversion for weight scaling they use in MN?

[Gary_C]

Is that the conversion for weight scaling they use in MN?

No. Maple is 4800 lbs per cord and not sure about oak.

[Jamie_C]

Hardwood runs 4 ton to a cord, thats $180.00 a cord thats dam good money

4 ton/cord ?? 4000 lb - 5000lb /cd maybe which would be 2 - 2.5 ton and $90 - $112.50/cd

[gunman63]

In northern  minnesota a ton is 2000 pounds, no matter if its feathers or wood

[SwampDonkey]

There's no $180/cord for hardwood pulp anywhere in NA. Never was that even during the high flying times. Seems 8 foot wood is running around 5000 lb/cord (2.5 ton/2.27 tonne) in my area. Just going off the market bulletins. They show price in tonnage and cords.

[WDH]

In the South, there is about 2.8 tons/cord for hard hardwood.  Never heard of 4 tons/cord.

[SwampDonkey]

WDH is that short wood? We always used that for stove wood sized pieces. What I see in the bulletins for 8' and tree length I can't get that figure. Basically, the stove wood guys delivering to me used that conversion to because it was going to be stove wood from 8' wood. 32-24 tonne loads gave nearly12-1/2 cords when bucked. I always stacked my wood to dry further as I bucked it.

[eamassey]

I sure can't address the "cords-to-tons" conversion.  Everything here (SouthWest Arkansas) is by weight and has been for a number of years.  I am not a timber worker-but retiree/farmer with a good bit of land and timber.  At $45/ton it is worth me cutting/hauling some loads where I want the timber removed anyway.  I am only cutting what I consider "weed" trees --- hickory, gum, elm, sycamore, post oak.  I haul about 5.6 ton on a gooseneck trailer, to gross $250.  It takes me 5 to 8 hours (total, including haul), depending on how much really small stuff I cut.  The stated rules are "2" top, 26" max. butt measurement, min. 12 feet long, no limit on length (but I can only haul up to about 25 feet).  The first three loads paid for a new Stihl 362.
eam

[SwampDonkey]

$45/ton isn't too bad, as we were getting that a metric tonne or as much as 55/M-tonne, which is 200 lbs heavier, 3 years ago. Mostly at around $45/M-tonne though. Not gonna get rich, but better than $32/ton. Stumpage was $5-9/tonne here, probably $5-6 now.

[lumberjack48]

 I don't know but when i was hauling, i could haul 10 cords of Aspen legal , 5600 lbs. per cord.
 
 When i hauled Oak, Maple, Birch, only 7.5 to 8 cords or i was over weight,  about 7600 lbs. per cord

 When the Co. truck hauled, he would only haul 8 cords of hardwood.

 Hardwood runs about the same as Balsum pulp for weight.
 When i new my wood was light , i had it stick scaled,  weight is a honest way to steal wood.

[SwampDonkey]

Wow, I'm glad I ain't hauling to those mills. That's way high on weight per cord. A cord ain't solid wood. Balsam poplar the same weight as hardwood?  I'd be swinging the truck for home.

[Jamie_C]

Wow, I'm glad I ain't hauling to those mills. That's way high on weight per cord. A cord ain't solid wood. Balsam poplar the same weight as hardwood?  I'd be swinging the truck for home.

Agreed swamp ... that has got to be the heaviest weights i have ever heard for hardwood pulp. Try to use those weight conversions around here and you are very likely to be shot on site.

[gunman63]

state of Minnesota use this conversion according to their website, or at least this is the one i found...
aspen 2.25 green ton/cord........4500lbs cd
other hardwoods  2.55 green ton/cord.........5100 lbs cd

lowland conifers 2.20 greeen ton /cord........4400 lbs  cd

[SwampDonkey]

Looks much more agreeable.  Fir however is heavier than spruce, that's why we get docked on the price per ton if > 25% of the load. Tamarack is heavy to, but not as wet as fir. Tamarack and hemlock is always poor pay around here, usually left standing or on the yard in woodlots. I've seen lots of it just laying to rot.

[plasticweld]

I am jealous!!
 I have no pulp wood market here only one for a salt plant that uses the wood as ground up chips  they buy it tree length and then chip it themselves. I started the wood lot I am now they were paying $27 a ton, I got ready to ship them 4 loads and they lowered the price to $22 a ton. My cost to truck it to them is $10  At $12 a ton it is not worth messing with and the wood is free to me, a clean up from a blow down. I figure to wait until mud season kicks in and maybe then the price will go back up

I heard there were markets in Northern Pa for Pulp if you know of one post up. I am located in central NY in the southern tier

[treefarmer87]

im not sure how they calcuate it at the mill i haul to, it goes buy weight and hardwood is 90 cents and pine is 95. took a load of pine 2 days ago i had 18,500 LBS on my c-65 and got $172.18 pine pays more here than hardwood it is the main thing around here

[gunman63]

hows that work out? figures dont jive, or i could be  adding wrong.

[treefarmer87]

ill find out this week its good to know

[SwampDonkey]

 

It's bed time, I'm tired..........man oh man.   

[treefarmer87]

the only reason i haul pulpwood is for gas money. i hate fooling with pulpwood anyway the only thing left from my logs is a small part of the top.

[Jamie_C]

the only reason i haul pulpwood is for gas money. i hate fooling with pulpwood anyway the only thing left from my logs is a small part of the top.

You must cut some awfully nice wood to be able to do that. The hardwood blocks we cut we are lucky to get about 40% logs, we probably average closer to 20%.

[SwampDonkey]

Jamie, hardwood timber is much nicer down south. We are on the fringe and as you say 60% + maybe closer to 75% pulpwood.

[treefarmer87]

Yea i only cut large poplar i cut them 9' or 10'6 and get moe logs out of the tree

[MDLogging]

im not sure how they calcuate it at the mill i haul to, it goes buy weight and hardwood is 90 cents and pine is 95. took a load of pine 2 days ago i had 18,500 LBS on my c-65 and got $172.18 pine pays more here than hardwood it is the main thing around here

  Must be paying around $18.60 a ton if they pay by weight.  I'm not sure what you mean by 90 and 95 cents

[SwampDonkey]

Must be per 100 weight is the only way it works out. Selling corn?

[treefarmer87]

thats what i think i dont make much off of it but when you walk in the door at their place it has a sign that says 90 cents hardwood and 95 cents pine

[lumberjack48]

Say guys you really got me thinking, i logged many cords over the year's. I was a small oprator, up to 1000 cords some months. What your saying about the weight has really got me thinking, i know when i hauled in this one mill it allways seemed take more wood to make 10 cords. I have to go back 40 yrs., i'm going to do some checking. 
To the pine hauler, they must be paying around $50.00 a cord.

[Samuel]

Hardwood runs 4 ton to a cord, thats $180.00 a cord thats dam good money

If you can get $180 per cord of HW, you had better cut and deliver as fast as you can.   

I think your calculation is off....by about $170

[SwampDonkey]

Run'n around $100/cord here Sam.

http://www.ysc.nb.ca/PRICELIST.html

[Samuel]

My calculation error...that's the problem with so many terms of measurement for wood volume  and obviously the entire world is not metric....

[DirtForester]

Around here, the rule of thuumb conversions are as follows:

Mixed hardwood - 2.6 tons per cord.

Pine - 2.2 tons per cord.

Hemlock 2.55 tons per cord.

None of that much matters anymore, though, because everyone has just gone to paying for everything by the ton.

[SwampDonkey]

Yeah, but the loggers still think cords for paying cutters. Everything is metric here at mills, but it's useless to those that can't follow it. Might as well be trading in aliens.

[DirtForester]

 

[Samuel]

There is even another level of confusion with our operations as the bunchers and skidders get paid by the m3, the chippers and trucks get paid by the BDT (bone dry tonne).  Most of the loggers here talk m3 not cords anymore.  Thats more of an eastern thing now.

[DirtForester]

There is even another level of confusion with our operations as the bunchers and skidders get paid by the m3, the chippers and trucks get paid by the BDT (bone dry tonne).  Most of the loggers here talk m3 not cords anymore.  Thats more of an eastern thing now.

  

[SwampDonkey]

Samuel, that is only true because your on crown land operations. So it's thrust upon them. Here there is a lot more private ownership as far as the percentage of the land base. Most loggers are over 50 and most landownership in their 60's +, so imperial units are imprinted like in stone. Mills still pay in metric, but it still gets converted for any meaning to them. On crown lands here it is also metric as it is in the west. Your just dealing with a different set of circumstances out there.

[Samuel]

Perhaps the farmers/private land holders are more with the times as the speak metric as well out here.  I guess we pay less attention to religion and politics and get on with life.   

[SwampDonkey]

I don't think metric ever stopped anyone from getting the job done.  I'll bet wheat is still sold in bushels, potatoes by the barrel or hundred weight.