Tree Shear

[waggy5]

Anybody have any experience with a hydraulic tree shear that mounts to a skid-steer? If so, what size skid-steer do you have and what size shear and Manufacturer? Will the shears cut hardwood, i.e. maple, oak, hickory,etc... at their rated capacities, i.e. 10", 14", 16", etc... Thanks! I am a newbie to the Forestry Forum!

[fishpharmer]

Waggy, welcome to Forestry Forum.  I can't share any personal experience.  I am sure someone here can.  I recall seeing pictures of a tree shear on here.

[Cedarman]

We use one in Oklahoma to cut cedars.  It is a Tree Terminator made in Plato Mo.  It will cut a 20" cedar 60' tall.  Most are smaller.  It will also hold the tree and you can carry it upright to stack.  We have used it for 5 1/2 years.  It will cut any tree species.  I wouldn't cut oak above 16" at stump though.  Used on Cat 287   

[Jeff]

I've run one on a bobcat.  I dont recall the head make, but it was a twenty inch shear. You won't cut twenty with one.  It worked OK in aspen and went down hill from there.

Things we hated about it.
High stumps.  You had to go back usually and cut off a lot of stumps as any butt flare it wouldn't handle.

Shattered wood.  You won't generally find a mill thatwill accept sheared wood unless you butt trim everything. 

You better have a skidder too.  Because I guarantee, at some point, yer going to flop the skidsteer over when a tall tree goes sideways on you and you can't turn with it and lay it out fast enough for some reason. (cradle knolls for one)

I'd never get one for general logging. The only pace I would use one is in plantation harvest on flat level ground.

[Bobus2003]

I got to try-out a Case 95XT w/Fecon Shear.. Neat unit, have to be real careful cutting on any slope.. The guy said he flopped it over a couple times learning the limits when he first got it

http://www.fecon.com/shears-and-saws/dual-knife.asp

[Cedarman]

Aaron and I have cut thousands of cedar trees and some hardwood. Post oak, elm, sycamore, honey locust among the hardwood.  Have never come close to tipping sideways. We operate on flat and some sloping ground.  When ground is sloping, always operate going up hill or down hill. There are times when the tree tilts forward and would set us on our nose, but releasing the grapple will alow the tree to fall forward on its own. Our shear will cut the flare at ground level.  It also angles the cut downward.  We did 67 acres where all stumps had to be 2" or shorter. We always try to shear at ground level. Tree size from saplings up to some that we should have used a chainsaw on. Anything over 24" we usually use a chainsaw. Sometimes we cut the tree 6 to 12" high because the tree was too big to shear at ground level.  Then the second cut was made with the tip of the shears at ground level.  This would bust the butt flare into pieces.  Takes 3 or 4 cuts to reduce the butt to ground level.  We can windrow the cedars as we cut them to let them dry and make it easier to grab them later for grinding.  If working among trees that need to be left standing that are not too thick, we can carry the tree vertical until we need to put it into the windrow. It is amazing how big a tree can be carried this way.
We have sent dozens of tractor trailer loads of cedar to sawmills and no complaints. The splintering on cedar only extends upward about 6" at most. So leaving the log and extra 6" takes care of that.  Hardwoods tend to splinter further up the tree.
We have used both wheeled skidsteers with steel tracks and ones with rubber tracks.
You must be careful of debris falling on back of machine and building up causing a fire hazard. Leaves somehow can get on the manifold and will start a fire.  Cleanliness is important.  Debris will constantly rain down.

[chevytaHOE5674]

Shattered wood.  You won't generally find a mill that will accept sheared wood unless you butt trim everything. 

None of the mills up here will accept anything sheared unless you trim the shattered wood off. In which case you lose most if not all of the butt log which is generally worth the most money.

[Twig farmer]

To heck with the skid steer attachment, look around for a 4 wheel machine. Like a Franklin shear, or an older Hydro-Ax.
It might be more coin, but you'll be ahead of the game.

[Jeff]

Cedarman, shearing cedar is way different then shearing 60 and 70 foot aspen or any large top heavy hardwoods in respect to keeping the machine on its wheels.

[chucker]

shattered butt ends, will tell you two things!! 1, your under powered for cutting .. and 2, your shear head blade is to dull !!!  as far as cutting butt ends and loseing log profit, the cause is from the 2 reasons i just gave... from being on the log deck/landing  end of many a loads of sheared timber butt trimming is a loss only from split wood more then half the diameter of the butt! if its split more then this then your right back to # 1 and 2 for the reason!! not cleanly shearing from the stumpand tearing it from the stump takes the value from pulling the heart wood apart!! normally a butt trim should not have to be more then a 6" trim.........

[Jeff]

That's true, and I can tell you that very few outfits do anything about the problem until the mill has cut them off for it. THEN they do, until the next time. So the easy way is to not allow sheared wood.   I got put in the hospital from having a sheared beech come unglued when I started the headsaw into it. A chuck blew right through the sawbooth and knocked me out. Ended up with two black eyes and a concusion.

[habaneroeater]

Cedarman, shearing cedar is way different then shearing 60 and 70 foot aspen or any large top heavy hardwoods in respect to keeping the machine on its wheels. your right Jeff cedars are tapered  smaller at top not top heavy like aspen if you are cutting in a Walmart parking lot it might work if you are smooth with the controls all in fun

[Cedarman]

Hardwood trees are top heavy for sure and we are not in the business of shearing hardwood unless they are smaller  junk trees in the way.  Oklahoma does not grow tall trees in the western 2/3 of the state.
Also,ERC is completely different than hardwood trees as far as grade goes.  Best wood is from 2 to 3 feet up the tree because of ingrown bark.  Best wood is also heartwood, opposite of hardwood.  So cutting off a foot or so of butt log is a plus.
On a big tree if you have to back the knives out you stand  a good chance of pulling slabs away from the butt.  I can see where this could be dangerous for a sawmill and also lower the grade of lumber.

Waggy5, what is your application?  Knowing what you are trying to accomplish will help us focus on what you are trying to do.

[waggy5]

Hi, and thanks for all the great comments! I am looking at thinning operations and trail making. Any trees cut for the most part would be for firewood only. Most trees would be in the 4" to 12" diameter. The trees could be anywhere from 15 feet to 50 feet tall. Also some white cedar, popular, small white pine, hemlock... etc.  I am interested in the skid-steer type mount due to not wanting to invest in another large piece of equipment. I am trying to figure out if they are worth the money. I would want one with a grapple. I have checked out the Dymax, M&M, Tree terminator and a couple others via the web sites. Some look better than others. A decent size shear and grapple (14" to 16") is going to weight about 2200 lbs., add this to the weight of a 10" diameter forty foot tall hardwood and I could see where tipping of the machine could happen. My rig weights about 11,500 lbs. and will lift 3000 lbs to full height. Wheel base is about 87". I would not cut more than 1ft to 2 ft off the ground though. Thanks again.

[habaneroeater]

i know what you want to cut now but how is your land? how is your wallet, the tree terminator is 10,000! on ebay! and a good husky is 400! plus skid steer 10,000 used or more,  tracks? do you have enough wood to justify the 20,000 plus dollars if they work well in every application, every logger would have one because more and more land owners want a neat harvest.will you used the skidsteer for other stuff  potato farmer love skid steers just a thought stephan

[habaneroeater]

what do you think, i ask a lot because you can learn from many, and gain a different perspective, stephan

[rick f]

A guy here in downeast maine had one on a skid steer clearing the edges of blueberry land. Mostly birch 20-40' high with some maple and softwood mix. The groiund was rough and I saw him let go of more then one bunch. I'm glad he was using it and not me, the pucker factor I think was real high.

habaneroeater, I've got a friend that ownes about 300 ac. in Belgrade. Up behind Hammond Lumber then go right at the church. The old Sawyer place, his son just built a house across from his farthers place.

[Stephen Alford]

  Hey, one of the issues with a skidsteer that may need to be addressed especially with thinning and trail work is that on some models you cannot see over your head and what is happening in the crowns . Trying to back up with the tree brings debris falling on the machine.  The window in the roof quickly becomes covered. When the crowns tangle the operator will lean forward  and trying to look up while trying to operate the machine.  At this point the operator is out of the seat , kinda unstable , going backwards, while looking up. Did I mention debris falling on the machine.

[habaneroeater]

Hey Rick my mothers down east in pembroke got about 600 acres there. here is a blog with her on it they have a bed and breakfast fine food her husband trained side by side with julia childs as a peer http://pfephoto.blogspot.com/2009/09/cinque-terre-farm.html i have been all over maine and downeast and downeast i used to drive the corona beer truck in 90-95 from ellesworth to vanceboro and everything in between to mooseneck general in south addison.. stephan

n

[logloper]

HI ALL.  Stephan Alford,how do you like that Implemax grapple? I have one and can not seem to be able to get ahold of the company anymore. Its been a good piece,until I needed parts.  Anyway,I have one of the Dymax tree shears. 14"  I use it on a Cat 262B with steel tracks over the wheels.I would agree,stay straight up or down on the hills. It cuts to the full 14" capacity with no trouble,where you have to watch out is on the height of your trees.Works great for corrall pole or mine prop size of wood. Does good in dead wood also,but more junk comes out on your head.No sawmill in my area will except sheared wood unless you buck all the buts. Thats from a large shear(Hydro-Ax),or a smaller shear(such as the Dymax). Fecon does offer a 16" Hotsaw with universal skidsteer atatch. But,you better have extra cooling capacity if your going to run it hard.
        Hope this helps.

[Mark K]

When I worked for NH we sold a couple of shears and Hydro ax chipping units for skid steers. Most of them went to land clearing outfits or snowmobile clubs. As Jeff said they really can't cut close to the ground. Have to go back and cut them off with a chainsaw. I watched a customer cut a 16" hickory with it. The shear was on a LS190 with high flow. Struggled but did it.  

[habaneroeater]

hey Rick i live on the west road tohttp://www.downeast.com/magazine/2002/may/hapiness-warm-baguette

[maple flats]

My brother has one rated for 16" on an 85 HP ASV. He does not use it for anything except firewood and land clearing. His works good on all species up to about 12-13" and only good on softer ones above that. It does not hold the cut piece, but rather fells it as you shear, always pushing the log in the same direction because the knife acts as a wedge (at least on live wood) If you get one, you must have a roof strong enough to stop a widow maker. My brother had one land on top of the cab, no damage but he said he was glad it held the weight and shock load. After it landed he was able to reach up with the shear and clamp on, lift the log and pivot from under it. Otherwise he thinks he would have needed to use his cell phone to call me with my excavator to lift it off before he would dare to exit.
I'm not sure the head make but it works his 85 horse with 2800 PSI hydraulics on the harder stuff. If you are not trying to get logs for the sawmill it is good and faster unless your other option is a feller buncher. His will cut within a couple inches of the ground unless butt swell prohibits it.

[Cedarman]

I would recommend an enclosed cab, at least one with a plexiglas front.  It is amazing how much fluid flys when you rupture a hose.  You don't want a hose 3 feet in front of you blowing hot oil all over you.   It is not unusual to blow a hose.  Our cabs have a small window to look up through.  Have never ever leaned out the front to look at the top.   It is a thrill for a dead limb to come down on the cab roof.  Quite a kabang.  

As far as cutting at ground level, ours will cut at ground level if you put it at the ground.  There may be trees too big to cut at ground level, cut them off a foot or so above , then cut at ground level.  The shear will bust the butt to pieces as you take several bites at it.  And there will be trees too big to cut with a shear.  We go back after shearing and cut down the ones that are too big.

Get the heaviest duty shear you can buy. The terminator has 2  6" cylinders pushing a knife from each side.

[Stephen Alford]

  Hey logloper , my time with the skidsteer was brief.  At the time we were thinning stands. When you are removing mostly the dead and poor quality stuff on very uneven terrain the overhead issues were a concern. It seemed like a nice machine came with a mower and grapple attachment.  At the time the forest industry was just starting  the slide  here. I understood a contractor in NB bought it.

[Louis]

We run 14" timberwolf with accumulator on a bobcat and had good luck!  We are moving to a excavator with processing head, would like to sell the shear we have now.

[semologger]

To heck with the skid steer attachment, look around for a 4 wheel machine. Like a Franklin shear, or an older Hydro-Ax.
It might be more coin, but you'll be ahead of the game.

I agree that if you look around enough you can find a good 3 wheel cutter like mine for the same price. Or even cheaper than some skid steers. The only other draw back is moving big equipment around. Skidsteers are alot easier to move from job to job. I have a guy cutting for me right now that has a grapple bucket on his right now and am looking to buy a shear for his. And i have have a guy with one that his works real good on pine. He would cut all the trees thaen swith over to forks so he could load his trucks. They do have their good points about them.

[treefarmer87]

i agree with twig farmer but i have seen 3 bunchers for sale for under $12,000. there is a franklin 170 in florida for $11,000, one in tennesee for $7,500 and another in N. carolina. the ones in carolina and florida are in good shape. the fella in tennesee wants to trade for a farm tractor.

[SwampDonkey]

I haven't seen them used here for at least 20 years. Mills complained too much of pull out and ruined butt logs. I saw one hardwood sight where the beech was knee high when sheered and those darn things grow stool shoots as you know and what a mess to thin with a brush saw. 

[waggy5]

Hi Folks! It's been awhile since my last post. We ended up purchasing an Fecon single shear for our skid-steer. It appears to be a very well constructed machine, but, we have had a problem which is as follows: We had our operator tell us that the shear un-hooked from the skid-steer when a tree was not quite sheared and the operator tried to back out of a tree to un-stick the machine. The operator stated that he tilted the machine forward and tried to back away when it happened. The shear actually came un-attached from the skidsteer face plate! The skid-steer locking arms were locked in and there was no damage to either machine.? The tree was a hardmaple and was about 10" in diamater and about 30' in height. It appeared to be a fluke at first glance. The operator pulled the machine away from the tree with a chain and then re-attached the machine and went on cutting. It then happened again a few minutes later. This time while the operator tried to cut a "clump" of 4" hardmaples! At this point the machine was brought back to the shop. We looked everything over and the only thing we could come up with is that the face plate of the skid-steer is about 0.4" shorter in height than the opening on the shear? The skid-steer height along the face-plate is about 15.5" and where the skid-steer hooks into the shear this dimension is about 15.9". We have a 78" dozer blade, 73" heavy duty material bucket, 72" heavy duty graple bucket, and a set of 4ft. forks also. We have never had one of these pull out. The dimension on all of these is pretty close to the 15.5" of our skid-steer. Any thoughts? I will be calling Fecon on Monday to see what they say.

[northwoods1]

When your making the cut is your operator putting some up pressure on the head, when the cut is through the tree should pop up off the stump , before , he tries to drive away

Interesting to read this thread, because everyone made such good points I thought. a skidsteer arrangment like what many talked about would not hold up for use in production logging here in the lake states region. A head like that Fecon would fall apart in no time it is very lightly made. There is a huge amount of torque on the head and the arms of a machine when you are cutting large heavy trees and then trying to move them over rough ground, even at the rated cutting capacty of that head , I would stay way under that if I was you just cut small wood. A small clump of maples like you were talking about might be hard to pinch off make sure your operator knows what he is doing. If there is just a tiny bit of holding wood you will not be able to pull the tree from the stump, put up pressure on the cut in other words pick up the back of the skid steer slighlty then make the cut and have tree pop from stump so you know it is free.
Now for cutting cedar like cedarman was talking about, a tracked machine like he has sounds like the perfect setup to me. You could grab the largest cedar tree you could find and there is no weight to that at all, even if it was soaking wet after a rainstorm very low ground compaction too. For operators who are not trying to put out load after load day in and day out cutting difficult ground it might work just not production logging. I've got a 16" hydro axe shear head but never use it , up here in the lakes states shear heads are pretty much obsolete.

[SwampDonkey]

Pulpwood it might not matter about that upward pressure. But, if it's small logs and you do this your going to end up with pull out which most saw mills around here will reject.

[Holmes]

Welcome to the Forestrty Forum waggy5.  Sounds like the tilting of the fecon puts up pressure on the fecon and down pressure on the attachment plate, then the plate slips out under the fecons top edges. I think the mounting plate is not fully engaging into the top of the fecon.  It could be pinned in , or maybe Fecon has a solution.  Holmes

[Cedarman]

The Cat skid steers we used in Ok never came unhooked except for one time.  It was a monster tree and the shear was stuck and I was doing all I could to get it free.  That was when we first started.  Since then and many many thousands of trees, some so big that when they were cut they could not be picked up, just let fall over.

But we took the shear to Indiana to run on an older 277 Cat and the shear came unhooked regularly.  Could not figure the difference.  Had to be in the Cat part of the hook up.

Something is definitely not right if your shear comes unhooked.
Our shear is a 20" Tree Terminator with tree holding clamp.  The biggest we could find anywhere.
The cedars at ground level in Ok are getting bigger and bigger.  Growth is up to 1" per year on some of the larger trees.  Getting beyond the capacity of the 20" shear. 
We are looking at a new way of cutting these trees at ground level.

Anyone with ideas?

[waggy5]

Checked the measurements again on the face plate of the skid-steer and the opening height on the shear. It shows about 15.5" height on the face plate and 15.9" to 16" opening on the shear. If a 3/8" thick plate was welded onto the base of the shear it would probably fix the problem. The skid-steer is pinned in and protruding from the shear. The shear weighs 1700 lbs. and is very well made. I feel that the machine would last a lifetime of work. I have no complaints about that. I just don't want anybody getting hurt trying to un-stick the machine. This website is great and the amount of knowledge within is amazing! Thanks to all!

[northwoods1]

Pulpwood it might not matter about that upward pressure. But, if it's small logs and you do this your going to end up with pull out which most saw mills around here will reject.

Swamp donkey , you have to realize that I definitely know what I am talking about when it comes to this, that is because I have cut over 1,000,000 trees with mechanized cutters. Big ones, small ones, short ones, tall ones, flat ground, hilly ground you name it I have cut it.
When you cut the tree off you want to put some upward pressure on the cut so the tree will come up off the stump when the cut is through. This is so that you know the tree is free and so you are not trying to yank the tree free from the stump. You don't put upward pressure on it to break the tree free. The problem waggy was having is a result of the operator trying to drive away when the tree was not fully cut off, a small hard wood like that can be real tough, harder than a large tree to cut off. Even it the head did not come off the quiktach or mounting plate , trying to move the machine when tree is not cut off is bad practice. With any type of sawhead you have to be real careful because it can cost you money if you try to move and tree is not cut off fully.
Waggy, when I say the Fecon head is lightly built I am comparing it to shearheads like the hydro axe and similar ones. The square tubing construction and those bunching arms would not take the kind of abuse for most types of logging, particularly if it was mounted on a larger carrier than a skidsteer. I am sure that you know what you are doing with the skidsteer and shearhead selection you know better than anyone what type of equipment you need to suit your purposes.

[Cedarman]

What is the biggest tree shear made for any machine?  We have a Tree Terminator for skid steers that will cut 20", more if you know what you are doing.  But we could use one even bigger. I could not find any when I searched the internet.

[northwoods1]

What is the biggest tree shear made for any machine?  We have a Tree Terminator for skid steers that will cut 20", more if you know what you are doing.  But we could use one even bigger. I could not find any when I searched the internet.

Cedarman, have you ever thought about a sawhead? I know you probably like what you can do with your shearhead, but there are advantages to a saw, and I bet you might be surprised at how fast they are. I am going to be cutting some cedar very soon and will have my hydro axe buncher w/timbco sawhead out there, I wish I could take a video or know how to take one and post it, but I will for sure take pics so you can see how well that works. I can cut very large trees with that saw, up to 28" or so if you cut from both sides.

[sandhills]

Cedarman, a good freind of mine works for Caterpillar and has a Marshall tree saw he rents out.  I'm going to be getting next week to start clearing pastures I'll let you no how it works.  I beleive he's got the smaller model, not sure.

[Gary_C]

What is the biggest tree shear made for any machine?  We have a Tree Terminator for skid steers that will cut 20", more if you know what you are doing.  But we could use one even bigger. I could not find any when I searched the internet.

Here is just what you need. Comes with both a shear head and a saw head. I have cut 24 inch diameter red oak trees with the saw head and it would just play with cedar trees.

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,41026.0.html

[SwampDonkey]

I guess my point was, we've not used them here on heads for some time for the reason I mentioned (pull out). Most loggers on crown lands here have gone to more productive saw heads. If you are traveling crown lands you can here the saw of a processor cutting wood miles away.

[barbender]

That Gary C is a persistent salesman if that link is what I think it is Seriously, a hot saw is very quick from what I have observed, I've only watched rubber tired  bunchers work but the tree is off of the stump in a split second, the machine just drives through and whump! and the tree is cut. Looks like the cut speed is more limited by how fast you can drive through it. I don't think a shear could even compare in speed.

[logloper]

From the cedar cutting experiences i have had, I wouldnt want a saw head. Way to dirty of wood, and usually really rocky ground.  I have a Dymax shear and have cut lots of trees, thousands and more. It is on a Cat skidsteer, and has never popped off. I have a friend running a Fecon shear on a Fecon carrier, and it does pop off. He has learned to cut the tree, tilt back, then pull away from the tree. If you watch the top of the kwik-atatch plate you can see any movement. On a grapple atatchment we had to weld longer tabs on the top plate wher the kwik-atatch plate goes in. This has fixed the problem for the last 4 years.

[SwampDonkey]

You ain't seen wood cut in rocky ground until you've been in Deersdale and Napadogan. Rocks  , more like parked cars in the woods in some places. Lots of wheel barrel and kitchen table sized ones laying about to. Hard granite from them darn glaciers. And they are using saw heads to cut it.

[Cedarman]

We use a tree saw on trees up to about 10".  It is fast, fast , fast.  It is the trees bigger than about 10" that we use the shear on.
A lot of the big trees have limbs stickout 10' in all direstions from ground level .  I would love to see how the hydroax performs on these cedars.  Might be the thing.
Sandhills, Marshall saws will do the job, but are slow.  I don't think they make them anymore.  but they effective and you can move the trees with them.

[barbender]

To clarify, the hot saw I was talking about are the large disc saws that run continually, I don't know how big they make them but I'd say at least 20" capacity for a single pass cut. Others would know better than me. I just wanted to differentiate what I was talking about from a bar saw type felling head.

[SwampDonkey]

Yeah, I don't think many are using bar saw heads much here neither.

Just run a higher end brush saw and see how quick it goes through 4 inch hardwood compared to a chainsaw. Less than a full second if you approach from the right hand side of the blade. It will draw itself into the wood.

[Gary_C]

Yeah, I don't think many are using bar saw heads much here neither.

Actually most all processors or harvesters use a bar saw head so you can't say not many are using them anymore. There are bar saw heads on fixed heads like a Hydroaxe and bar saw heads on a boom mounted head and bar saw heads on a dangle head like a processor. I would say the bar saw is the most popular cutting method on all heads today. Hot saws are good for smaller stuff and when you are mowing down trees in rows but most of them are good for only 16-18 inches and even that takes a four foot spinning disc. Shear heads are mostly boat anchors now but could be used in the future for biomass cutting brush especially when they have accumulators.

[SwampDonkey]

Don't see them here, which is NB. I didn't say in general. You see processors and slashers all with circular saw. I have seen bar saws in feller bunchers, but mostly I see processors with circular. I've mark trails for a few fella's and that's what I see. What we call a hydroaxe here is a head on a track hoe used on power lines and ditches to whack down brush. The stems are not pinched off. There may be bar saws used in thinnings with bunchers in small wood.

[Gary_C]

I don't think we are talking about the same thing. I've not seen a circular saw on any mobile head machine wether it's a feller buncher or a processor. Circular saws are relatively thin discs with teeth and would not standup to cutting trees. Hot saws are very heavy spinning discs with cutter teeth but they are not well adapted and as far as I know never used on a processor as they cannot effectively be used as a cutoff to move in and out. And hot saws are used exclusively on felling heads only, never processors.

[snowstorm]

quadco makes some ctl heads with a dis saw. the saw moves. theres a vid of it on there website

[Reddog]

Hot saws are very heavy spinning discs with cutter teeth but they are not well adapted and as far as I know never used on a processor as they cannot effectively be used as a cutoff to move in and out. And hot saws are used exclusively on felling heads only, never processors.

This is the Midwest definition below.
Gary_C correct me if you see it different.

Hotsaw:
 



Processor:


Slasher:

[Reddog]

quadco makes some ctl heads with a dis saw. the saw moves. theres a vid of it on there website

Looks like you need a large track carrier for them.
CUTTING CAP 22" 24" OPERATING WEIGHT 6,050 lbs 6,500 lbs

Video:
http://www.quadco.com/videos/videos-ultimate-5660.html

Specs:
http://www.quadco.com/harvesters/ultimate-5660-2.html

[SwampDonkey]

Yes, it seems every region develops different names like they do trees. These processors are called feller processors up here (Timbco Model T425 is popular), which cut with a circular chain saw-type cutting head and delimb the tree and buck the stem to length.  Everyone just calls them processors around here. What a lot do is use it as a feller only and combine with a grapple skidder for whole-tree logging. So, no it isn't a bar saw, it's a circular chain-saw type head. The darn things sound like a sawmill in the woods to me.

http://www.fs.fed.us/ne/newtown_square/publications/research_papers/pdfs/scanned/OCR/ne_rp711.pdf

We also get a lot of stuff introduced back east here from Europe before you see it out your way.

[Jamie_C]

In Swamp's neck of the woods there are a lot of what we call "intermittant saw" heads like the Quadco's, here in Nova Scotia almost every head on a harvester/processor runs a bar and chain like a power saw.

Feller Bunchers here all run hot saws, shears haven't been used up here in years as the mills all refused to buy wood that was bunched using them due to the fiber damage. Contractors also realised just how much more wood you could bunch with a hot saw, 10,000 plus stems a week single shift is not uncommon with a lot of machines in this area.

[Cedarman]

We do not care about fiber pull as the trees will be left dry and turned into mulch.  What is the biggest shear that any of you are familiar with? 

[Gary_C]

I don't think they went much over 16 inches, maybe 18 at the most. It took a lot of power and sharp knives to cut even 16 inches and then they were left behind for other types of cutting. Plus it's hard to open the knives that far and still not just push the tree out of the head when the knives close.

[SwampDonkey]

I guess the thread has branched out into 2 or 3 directions.

But, as to the maximum I can't tell you myself as those machines are long gone from here.

[logloper]

Quadco has two 21" shears advertised on their website. Timbco made 20" Shears, look on My Little Salesman. Lots of Hydro-Ax machines listed around with 20" shears. On flatter ground a shear is hard to beat. Much less maintenance, very fast. Depends on if you are sending your wood to a mill, and what kind of mill. We use a Dymax 14" shear on cedar, corrall poles,posts, and firewood logs. All saw logs we use a Risely Rotosaw head or we handfall them. We have cut some sawlogs out of our sheared wood, we just buck a 16" block of firewood off of sheared end. The shear doesnt even grunt to cut 14" cedar.

[barbender]

There is a local legend of an operator up here who can put 500 cords of wood on the ground in a day with a Timbco feller/buncher with a hot saw, with 2 crews of 2 grapple skidders, delimber and slasher working behind him. My point is that for speed in hammering down a lot of wood, a tracked buncher with a hot saw can't be touched by anything else. There are youtube videos of hot saw heads in action, if anyone hasn't seen one cut you should check one out. I haven't watched a shear in action but I don't see how they could even compare for speed.

[northwoods1]

Cedarman, I think you are in kind of a unique situation because you are cutting primarily or only cedar. No one really makes a large shear head because there would be very little market for it.
Shears are primarily designed for cutting & accumulating small diameter stems. You asked about how would a bar type sawhead perform in brush and with brushy trees?  I can remember back 20 years ago when sawheads were just coming in to the picture & shears were on the way out, at that time I was considering the purchase of a $10,000 dollar sawhead and I heard lots of horror stories. Bent bars, problems with brush preventing bar from retracting, high maintenence, slow...so I bought a shear and a saw. After going through the learning curve of how to use the saw, and there is one my conclusion is exactly that of Gary C., the shearhead it nothing but a large boat anchor. If I could sell mine for scrap price I would welcome someone to come and get it
Here is a pic from yesterday of my buncher with timbco sawhead mounted on it, I moved it on to a new job yesterday and I'll be using it to cut cedar which is on some high ground. No amount of brush or limby wood scares me when I am using this to cut, a big bushy tree I can just drive right up to and break the limbs of by lowering and raising the head, then grab it and saw it off in a couple seconds, put it on the ground wherever I want, and with the chains and fluid filled tires I just drive next to the stem of the tree and all the limbs will be instantly smashed off no problems. There is no comparing a skidsteer with a shearhead to a carrier like this with a sawhead.

 

[Cedarman]

Aaron and I have discussed getting something like what you have.  Until now the tree saw we have is used to cut everything up to about 10".  The shear is used on larger stuff.  We have the skid steers to move trees and they are easy for us to move from site to site.  The skid steer works very well for loading the grinder with trees.  They fuel efficient also.

But the trees are growing very fast.  1/2" to 1" per year at ground level, so will out strip our ability to whack them easily.

Also we will most likely get bigger moving equipment so would be able to transport a hydroax more efficiently too.
This is a great discussion and I am learning a good bit.

[barbender]

Northwoods, is your machine a 3 wheel set up?

[northwoods1]

Cedarman I am learning a lot from this discussion also 

it warmed up here and I have to wait until tomorrow when the cold will be returning so I can begin work out at that job, rain and in the 40s' now. I cut a bunch of the larger stuff yesterday by hand and I decided to wait for the cold to begin skidding because the limbs break off very easily when it is cold... it is more difficult to move a larger machine like my hydro axe, and barbender yes it is a 3 wheeler, but I am thinking a person could find a carrier like mine or what Gary C. has with a sawhead for the same kind of money as what a good skidsteer and shearhead like you were talking about would cost. My machine cost $120,000 bucks in 1991 but there are a lot of used machines available for a small fraction of that , and these are for real production logging in decent wood it takes about 1 hour to cut and bunch up, in a very nice way,  a truckload of wood.

[semologger]

nice axe there northwoods ive been running my 221 for about 13 years now. How many times have you layed it on its side? Ive only done it once no big deal. I would be lost without it. 

[northwoods1]

nice axe there northwoods ive been running my 221 for about 13 years now. How many times have you layed it on its side? Ive only done it once no big deal. I would be lost without it. 

I think I got it in 1991 so I have had it a while. I've tipped it over probably 4 or 5 times early on. I have fluid in the tires and that makes a big difference. The one advantage to a three wheeler like this is that you can turn on a dime which allows you to turn into the direction of the tree your carrying if it begins to tip. It really is amazing how large a tree you can cut and carry. Some species that have a really large canopy and if they are fully leafed out can get heavy and to large to pick up. Yes that machine has given me really good service in all these years I have never done a single thing to it other than replace some hydraulic hoses and most of them were going to the sawhead! I know I have cut well over 100,000 cords of wood with it, probably a lot more than that actually.

[barbender]

Northwoods, how does that third wheel behave in soft ground, like in a black spruce swamp? I've been thinking about those little Bell 3 wheels, I think they would be slick for what I do, but I was curious if it would work in the swamps. (For from down south, we only cut our swamps in the winter, when they are supposed to frozen, but it seems like they never freeze until they have been driven over a few times)

[lumberjack48]

barbender in our swamps, the Bell with tracks would be the way to go. I've been in swamps around Deer River, that a skidder wouldn't go in, we had to pack trails with a wide track cat.

If you drove a three wheel feller, with fluid in the tires in one of these swamps, that's right where you'd be in the swamp.

It wouldn't work with out the fluid, there's to much weight per sq inch on the ground, with rubber tires.

[northwoods1]

barbender in our swamps, the Bell with tracks would be the way to go. I've been in swamps around Deer River, that a skidder wouldn't go in, we had to pack trails with a wide track cat.

If you drove a three wheel feller, with fluid in the tires in one of these swamps, that's right where you'd be in the swamp.

It wouldn't work with out the fluid, there's to much weight per sq inch on the ground, with rubber tires.

For sure a hydro-axe like mine is a hard ground machine... I took it down to the cedar job because there was an area that was not to soft I knew for certain I could cut, and I was hoping for a colder winter. As it turned out I had no difficult freezing that job down and I could go just about anywhere with the buncher with impunity. As long as I worked the edge that I froze down and did not willy-nilly go driving around to far off the beaten path that is.

Mostly where my buncher works better than anything are selective cut jobs where limiting residual damage is the biggest factor. In the early 90s' I had to cut a lot of large federal sales that were just that. At that time the forest service was going away from aspen regeneration and clear cuts and they were trying to convert a lot of the stands to hardwood.

[barbender]

One more question Is your sawhead a chainsaw bar type or a disc saw (hot saw) ?

[northwoods1]

One more question Is your sawhead a chainsaw bar type or a disc saw (hot saw) ?

Its a timbco bar saw, here you can see one mounted on a timbco carrier:

[lumberjack48]

Now that's the way to go, it really kicks butt in that blow down, or right away clean up. It would be a good place to be running semi carbide chain, there's a lot of dirt, in, round and on that kind of cutting.

I have cleaned up many blow down sales just like that with a cable skidder, this is just a little bit faster i would have to say, and takes the danger out of it.

Now if it would limb and cut to length wouldn't that make it sweet machine, getter done, in stead of making a another job out of it.

[treefarmer87]

If i bought a bell and bunched with it would i speed up production pulling with my c5? i think my wife is going to buy me a new piece of equipment i need to decide what to get. if i had to do it over i would have bought a forwarder.

[lumberjack48]

Absolutely, just don't put more in a bunch than you can pull, use you main line for the first choker.

I would lay a tree cross ways, then put 1 cd bunch's on that to make it easy hook'en, it shouldn't take more than 30 seconds to hook-an-book.

Depending on the timber or the weather, i usually had a man limning the bunch's in the woods.

I don't think a forwarder would be you answer, you still have to fall it, buck it, and limb it.

I would ask for a CTL machine, and a forwarder, and a new truck, than have her drive one.   [see what she says]

[northwoods1]

Now that's the way to go, it really kicks butt in that blow down, or right away clean up. It would be a good place to be running semi carbide chain, there's a lot of dirt, in, round and on that kind of cutting.

I have cleaned up many blow down sales just like that with a cable skidder, this is just a little bit faster i would have to say, and takes the danger out of it.

Now if it would limb and cut to length wouldn't that make it sweet machine, getter done, in stead of making a another job out of it.

I think it looks to me he is doing right of way clean up too, I just love to watch a good operator you can tell it isn't that guys 1st day in that cab
He is probably laying that up for a stroke delimber and my guess is that stuff probably goes to the mill tree length. In the right kind of timber a machine like this can be used to clear right of way to very good effect. You can just tip the tree out, pick it up and saw the stump off out of the roadway, then make nice bunches all neat and organized waiting for the skidder. Saves a lot of stumping with the cat and eliminates the mess.

[treefarmer87]

i figured it would make it a little faster. i would be hooking chokers to a whole bunch, instead of trees here and there

[lumberjack48]

This when you put a choker slider bell on your maine line, so you can hook your first choker back in to the line, this makes one big dang choker.

I had my riggen rigged this way all the time, just in case a tree was to big for a choker.

I would have 5 or 10 long chokers made up, and have the guy limning per set them, and hook it for the skidder operater, this would keep that skidder moving, if you ante moving, you ante making money

[treefarmer87]

yep, i have done that before, your right, if you aint moving you aint making money