Need help with milling for fencing???

[Piston]

I live on a dead end street, where most neighbors are family, and my dogs rule the neighborhood.  Recently the ONE and ONLY neighbor that hasn't lived on that street for at least 26 yrs started complaining that my dogs aren't 'tied up' all the time.  Although they never go in her yard or have bothered her at all....anyways that's a whole nother story! 

Because of her I have to build a fence on my land, I have tons of EWP and I know that is probably one of the worst things to use but it's what I have.  I was thinking I could use that for the fencing and either buy (or find something better) some fence posts. 

What should I use for spacing between posts?  I have never made a fence before.  I would like it to be 10' minimum if that isn't too far? 

Also what should the fencing (rails? dont' know what they are called) be milled to?  I was thinking I would do 4/4 but maybe 5/4 would be bettter?  Would 6" be good or maybe something more like 1"x4" ?

Since I'm putting up a fence, I may end up getting a couple goats to help eat down the brush (I've always wanted goats), when they're done I'll sell them or keep them as pets (or eat them) 
I know goats are masters of escape so do any of you have recommendations on the spacing between the horizontal fencing? 

I would think the fence would have to be about 48" tall and not too much space between each horizontal row of fencing board, maybe I could get away with small spacing at the bottom of the fence and increasing up top? 


Sorry for sooooo many questions, just trying to get them all out of the way before people start asking me more 

[ellmoe]

   We typically use 4/4 x 6 x16', with posts on 8' centers. Can you pressure treat white pine? I would think so. If so, a 3 x 4 x 12 or 14' would yield two good posts and a 4' tall fence. Normally , our fences are three or four boards high. This will not keep dogs or goats in if they want to leave the enclosure though. In those cases a wire fencing will be nailed to the inside of the fence.

Mark

[Kevin]

Another idea would be an electric dog fence, not too expensive to install.

[bandmiller2]

Piston glad your home,shame about your neighbor, thats the type of people we have now they complain because they can.I would not try to restrain a goat with less than 6'even then you may find them perched ontop of a 6'post.Best common wood for posts we have is white oak full 4x4 I have some old black creasoat you can put on the ground end.I built a 6' stockade fence 10' spacing ran three oak stringers and verticle 4" wide pine boards Looks good and privcey.Frank C.

[moonhill]

If the goats have kids you will want the spacing to be no more than 3", kids don't bark but they will have a fun time with the neighbors.  Don't worry they will come back to mom when they are done exploring.  I have seen a goat jump over a 4' fence, but this is not the norm.  3' of mesh will do if they have no reason to go elsewhere, food comes to mind.  

Tim

[jwoods]

Piston,

When I make board fence, I base it on 7' spacing between posts, basing it on the post length.  3 feet in the ground, 4 feet above ground =no waste, as compared to buying 8' pressure treated from the store, but then again I have access to natural woods that are more rot resistant.  Mill the logs around 14'6", you can hang 7' boards or 14.  3 board high is all I've ever made, 6" wide boards.

In your case, you'll probably have to buy p/t posts, and 8' spacing would look good.

As for goats, if the fence won't hold water, it won't keep goats in

Joe

[Piston]

Wow so it's really true what they say about those darn goats being escape artists huh? 

Well the main objective is to keep the dogs in, so maybe I'll start there by milling a bunch of 1x6x8 and 1x6x16's and go with 8' spacing between posts, I guess that makes the most sense from what you guys are all saying.  I will be putting it up green and I was thinking I will screw the boards to the posts, I know that is a lot of screws but won't it hold a lot better than just nailing?  Then I figure after 6 months or so I will prime and paint the boards, after letting them dry out a bit. 

If I do end up going with the goats maybe I'll get a bunch of that wire fence to nail over the boards, I bet that would get darn pricey though.  Hmmmm, decisions decisions...

Thanks for the advice.

[bandmiller2]

Matt,goats are interesting critters,they will flat a$$ clear an area down to bare earth in no time.What works well is a moveable fence wire and steel posts to clear brush and undergrowth, poison ivy is one of their favorites.Frank C.

[Hilltop366]

Piston, my sister use to keep some goats, she used a electric fence after a while an learned a few things in the process that also worked for keeping deer out of her garden. If you use corner braceing on the inside the goats will walk up and over the fence, when she started using electric wire she learned that if the goat stuck it's head between the wires and then raised its head and got a shock behind it's ears it would go through the fence (same with deer), her cure was to train the goats and deer to stay away from the fence by putting pieces of tinfoil on the wire and apply some peanut butter on it, the goat/deer would bite the foil and get a good shock and back up because they could see what was causing the pain, not sure if this would help with dogs.

[pineywoods]

re goats and fences. Back when I was a youngster, Dad decided we needed some goats. We had a fenced in pasture to keep the cows and calves in. 4 ft net  wire with 2 strands of barb wire above that. That ought to be good enuff for goats. He bought half a dozen from a local farmer and put them in the pasture. Looked out a few minutes later, and there was the old billy perched atop a 6 ft corner post...They didn't stay around very long...

[woodmills1]

2 ideas since your green pine will shrink

posts on 8 foot, the 3 2x(post width) between them on the flat, then

A) 1x verticle on outside(good side to neighbor) in a board on board fashion  IE 1x6 spaced 5 inches apart with a 1x6 over the space

B) 1x vertical alternated one in front then one in back spaced close enough so dogs can't wiggle around and through


then use uncle larrys famous walnut stain

[Chuck White]

Another idea would be an electric dog fence, not too expensive to install.

I agree with Kevin on this issue!
Now they (not sure of the company) have a system where you put a collar on the dog
and turn on the unit (which can be kept in the house) and the dog will only be allowed to
go a specific distance, then they will hear a tone, any further and they'll get a shock.
I have a friend who has this system.  It's the easiest and fastest way to go.  
He has his set for 90 feet.  His dog knows exactly where that is too.

[Magicman]

Another idea would be an electric dog fence, not too expensive to install.

My "across the street" neighbor has one and a yellow Lab.  They put flags up for a couple of weeks to show the dog where the wire is.  I've never seen anything more effective.

[Joel Eisner]

We have several acres enclosed with an invisable fence for our 110 lb lab.  For the most part we ran the wire through the woods and did not burry it.  In about a year it is all but dissapeared from the leaves etc.  If you get one I would ditch the cheap collar and mount the reciver on a regular dog collar.  The original clip on the cheap collar broke and we needed to buy a new reciver (~$70).

The flags are a waste of time.  The dog learns real quick where the border is after a few good shocks.  The nice thing about the wire on the surface is that you can move it, as we did when we got chickens and a coop.

Joel

[Jim_Rogers]

Piston,
As you said the pieces that go between the posts are called rails, and the pieces that go up and down on the rails are called pickets, even if it isn't a traditional picket fence, they can even be regular boards.

When I made my fence here a the sawmill yard, I used regular EWP for the posts. However, I went to the store and got some "fence post paint" made for coating wood that is in direct contact with the soil. Home Cheapo has some by the Behr brand, but you may have to special order it and it may come in only 5 gallon pails.

We painted only the section of the post that went into the ground.

And we used my little 1' wide bucket on my backhoe to dig the post holes. This made a long but narrow hole. After we set the post, we checked it's location with a tape, and made sure it was plumb on two sides and in line with the string, and then back filled around the post with some crushed stone.

By back filling with crushed stone just around the post, the surface rain water runs through the stone and doesn't sit in the dirt and rot the post.

To make sure we had enough stone to do all the holes we used a slip form of 12" wide boards. We'd place the boards in the hole and then fill the side next to the post with stone, and the other side with the dirt from the hole. As the hole filled up we'd pull the boards up and do it again. Tamping down the dirt and stone as we did it. This worked great for us, and we've had these posts standing here for many years.

We did paint the above ground sections of the posts and rails with regular house paint, nothing special, and it has made many of the rails last many years.

You can see the fence in this photo behind the frame and deer.....



Jim Rogers

[thecfarm]

We've had 6 differant goats in 10 years.Never had a problem with them trying to escape.Maybe just lucky,I don't know.I just used my hemlock slabs for railing.Does not look the best,but I picked the best ones.I would not suggest this for a permanent fence.I just did this just in case the wife changed her mind about the goats,she has not by the way,in 10 years.I left about 2 inches between rails and the fence about 5 feet high.I have since replaced the driveway side with 2X4 fence wire.Get the goats dehorned,safety for them and you and get the males fixed and you will be all set.Spend some time with them,so if they do escape they will follow you back into the pen.The only time ours have left the pen was when I thought I locked the gate to the pen.They came into the garage to get into the house.Ours will follow us around better than the dog.

[Kobraken]

Or better yet tell the new neighbor if she doesn't like the dogs, get her own fence and then she can live in a cage, not you.  My dogs were here first, and if she doesn't like it tough ****.   Sorry but i hate new people from the "big city" who come in and try to change the way i live.  new neighbors shouldn't move in and try to change the area to suit them, they should adapt to the area.   My neighbors moved in and raised cane about my dogs killing their chickens, but when my dogs killed the fox that was actually killing them they changed their tune.  Now my dogs go down ever morning and "patrol" the place, and the lady has a biscuit waiting for them. And no further dead chickens.  Just my humble opinion. Ken
PS--  i have 5 goats and a 12000 volts fence that has knocked my big billy smooth down, now he won't go near it. you can tie a piece of wire between two trees and put a pink ribbon on it and he will walk around it. But my smallest goat goes thru it as she wants, whenever, and whereever.  I got into it and thought it had killed me, knocked me down and i could taste my fillings for 2 days.  so i know it works.  As long as they have enough to eat they don't get out.  Good luck. 

[Piston]

Jim,
You beat me to asking, I was just going to post that I remember you saying somewhere that you used crushed stone to backfill and I wanted you to explain how you did it, so thanks for reading my mind. 

I have looked into the electric fence for the dogs, in fact I posted something about it here http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,37593.msg542629.html#msg542629 I decided against the electric fence after talking with a couple of friends who didn't have good luck with it, although I realize the majority of people do.  One friend has bloodhounds and he said it worked for a few months but now the dogs will go through it, probably not enough voltage I guess.  I have a Mastiff and St. Bernard with another Mastiff on the way (maybe next week).  I know that mastiff's have huge pain tolerances and I worry that it just wouldn't bother them.  I could definitely be wrong.  I also want a wooden fence for the goats, in case I do get some.  I do have plenty of material so that isn't a problem.  Not to mention, the wife wants a fence around the yard to make it look more 'countryish'  That pretty much settles my decision, I'm man enough to admit she's the boss.   

Or better yet tell the new neighbor if she doesn't like the dogs, get her own fence and then she can live in a cage, not you.  My dogs were here first, and if she doesn't like it tough ****. 

AMEN TO THAT!  She had the animal control officer come to my house twice about a complaint, I honestly didn't know our small town even HAD an animal control officer.  Although she was really nice and I explained to her the dogs day to day routine of roaming the neighborhood to visit neighbors and she told me that she can't blame me for being upset about this lady, she said she wouldn't have her dogs on the leash either, but she had to come up only because the lady complained.  I told her next time up she should come in for a coffee and we'll all chat for a while, the neighbor can think she is yelling at me 

Like I said earlier, other than her, I am the newest addition to that street (in fact it's named after my great great grandfather, who used to own the entire street in the past) and I have been there since I was 2 (or so I've been told since I don't remember that far back ) I moved here 26 years ago, although 3 yrs ago I moved out of my parents house and into my own, a whopping 4 houses down the street. 

[backwoods sawyer]

Take the compromise, build the wooden fence and install one of those electric dog fences just inside of it and put the collars on the goats instead of the dogs.

A few years back I had a neighbors dog that kept harassing my goats, the third time animal control came out they told me that my only option was to shoot the dog the next time the dog was in the goat barn, and I did!!! When the owner tried to say that I should build a stronger fence to keep the dogs out, the sheriff made it real clear to him that it was his responsibility to keep his dog home. My fence was good enough to keep my goats in, and I fed them well so they had no desire to get out.   

[flibob]

I had a neighbor who didn't like my dog roaming but after I plowed his drive a couple of times he forgot all about it.  Still doesn't get the wife's fence built though, does it!