Author Topic: Woodmizer bearing problem? (Read 7738 times)

Jim_Rogers · « **on:** February 13, 2010, 04:31:53 pm »

I have a 1994 LT30HDG24 so I have six bearing for the carriage head to ride down the rails on, four on top and two on bottom.

One of them seems to be hanging up, as it is binding sometimes as it moves down the mill, and it is making some noise as I move the mill without the engine running.

I have one new replacement bearing on hand.

I can't seem to figure out which one is not working correctly.

I've lifted the mill up off the rails with a crow bar as I think was the method we were suppose to use to check the bearings and it seems like they are all alright, the four on top.
I leaned the mill over a little and check the two bottom ones and they seem ok too.

How do you figure out which one to replace?
(Please don't tell me to replace all of them as I can't afford that right now, I'm sure you understand that....)

Some have some movement, but this movement is the same as the brand new one, so I can't seem to figure it out......

Any advice would be helpful.....

amberwood · « **Reply #1 on:** February 13, 2010, 04:42:20 pm »

Jim. The top rear one first. Top front one second. I squirt some WD40 or equivalent into the bearing and if that temporarily fixes it, well you needed a new one becase the bearing is no longer sealed and has worn out. The top ones only take 5 minutes to change and take most of the head weight so would be the first ones to change. Bottom ones are more challenging. Dont forget to spend a few min and check the head alignment after you change the bearings as it will have effected it.

rgs

DTR

WH_Conley · « **Reply #2 on:** February 13, 2010, 05:07:43 pm »

I have found that Mizer bearings have a larger seal the the after market replacements at the parts warehouse. If there is no groove in the bearing where it rides on the rail pop the grease seal out, soak in solvent, dry it good and repack with grease and replace seal. I have found that most of the time all that is wrong is they get dry. I have a complete set (after market) in the mill shed soaking in transmission fluid, about every six months, on a slow day I just swap them out.

woodmills1 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 13, 2010, 05:11:03 pm »

Have you replaced any bearings before now? If not you may still have the old style. If you have the old style I would change them all, realign the head and you should be good for another 16 years.

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2010, 05:13:34 pm »

On the four on top, two have grease fittings, two do not.

Thanks for your advice on re-oiling them.

How or what is the best way to hold the carriage up while you change them?

Edit, also, while looking for spare parts I found two used ones in the boxes marked that they came from the bottom track. And there was at least one more used one there, of course all of these used ones the bearings were junk.

LeeB · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2010, 05:55:34 pm »

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,19439.msg278488.html#msg278488

Try here for some info.

amberwood · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2010, 05:59:23 pm »

To change the top ones, undo the bolt of one brg, then slip the flat end of a jemmy bar under the brg mounting plate and lever off the top of the main chassis. All you need to do is just take the load off the bolt to remove the brg, then replace in the same method.

DTR

ARKANSAWYER · « **Reply #7 on:** February 13, 2010, 07:10:07 pm »

With the top covers removed and the engine off set the mill to go forward down the track. Put a metal bar on the middle of the bearing. You can put your ear up to the bar and hear the bad bearing. It will growl and make noise. The one I lose the most is the single one on top near the front of the mill. My wifes stethoscope works good but I can only use it when she is not home.

LeeB · « **Reply #8 on:** February 13, 2010, 08:27:01 pm »

Quote from: ARKANSAWYER on February 13, 2010, 07:10:07 pm

With the top covers removed and the engine off set the mill to go forward down the track. Put a metal bar on the middle of the bearing. You can put your ear up to the bar and hear the bad bearing. It will growl and make noise. The one I lose the most is the single one on top near the front of the mill. My wifes stethoscope works good but I can only use it when she is not home.

Is that why you been having headaches?

Jim H · « **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2010, 09:16:20 pm »

Your mill being a '94, you should have the older bearings, made by RBC I believe. They don't last quite as long as the newer ones stamped McGill or woodmizer, BUT you can grease the older ones with a grease needle by sliding it under the lip of the seal. You can grease the upper ones on the machine, the lower ones have to be removed, as the seal is close to the bottom frame tube. I have gotten close to 6000 hours out of a few this way. They usually start to drag around 12-1500 hours.

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #10 on:** February 14, 2010, 10:27:29 am »

Thanks for all your advice, and the link to that other thread.
I read every post over there.

I never thought to use a splitting wedge to hold the mill up, but that looks like it will work.
I'll have to see if my mechanic has a stethoscope I can borrow, I've seen them before but don't have one,..... yet.....

I'll post what I find out..... when I do....

MartyParsons · « **Reply #11 on:** February 14, 2010, 02:50:44 pm »

Usually you can feel the roughness in the bearings. A quick check is remove the Power feed belt and push the saw head and listen for the bearing. Also check the bearings in the Power feed shaft and the idler for the power feed chain.
Hope this helps!
Marty

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #12 on:** February 15, 2010, 07:57:10 am »

Quote from: MartyParsons on February 14, 2010, 02:50:44 pm

Usually you can feel the roughness in the bearings. A quick check is remove the Power feed belt and push the saw head and listen for the bearing. Also check the bearings in the Power feed shaft and the idler for the power feed chain.
Hope this helps!
Marty

I was starting to think it was the power feed system, but how do you check out these bearings?

sparks · « **Reply #13 on:** February 15, 2010, 08:55:17 am »

Soak down the upper rail with transmission fluid. As you run the head down the track the bad bearing will slide and not turn. You can do the same on the bottom as well.

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #14 on:** February 15, 2010, 09:19:50 am »

ok, thanks. I'll try that as well.....

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #15 on:** February 16, 2010, 02:08:20 pm »

Quote from: MartyParsons on February 14, 2010, 02:50:44 pm

Also check the bearings in the Power feed shaft and the idler for the power feed chain.
..........
Marty

Marty: How do you check the power feed shaft and idler for bad bearings?

Is it simply to remove the chain and see if they wiggle up and down?

Jim

MartyParsons · « **Reply #16 on:** February 16, 2010, 08:05:07 pm »

Remove the chain tension and remove the belt. can you wigle the shaft? Remove the two 3/8 bolts and remove the assembly. I have seen some grind the shaft down to a pencil thickness.

. Not a real diffucult repair just two bearings and a shaft. You can pick up the bearings at a local parts store if needed. We have them in stock also. When you remove the belt the saw head should roll real easy. I remove the belt when doing an alignment some times, makes life easier. Record how the chain travels over the gear and idler before removing.
Marty

woodmills1 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 17, 2010, 10:49:13 am »

If you haven't found the problem yet look at the idler gear on the chain feed. I had an alignment problem there on the LT40 that caused a feed problem.

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #18 on:** February 17, 2010, 06:21:40 pm »

Thanks Marty, and James.

I'll let you know what it is when I figure it out.

I have the mill on a job, right now, with four more pine logs to cut up tomorrow.

Once that is done I'll be bringing the mill back to the sawmill yard and will have a chance to really look at everything and see what's up....

Jim Rogers

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #19 on:** February 21, 2010, 08:54:59 am »

Well, I finished my "on the road job" early Thursday afternoon, and then brought the mill home.

Saturday morning I figured was a good time to take a look at things.

I didn't have the mill "set up" in it's regular spot as I haven't plowed the snow over there yet, and it will probably be all melted by the time I move the mill there late Monday or Tuesday morning. Very nice days here lately, over 40° so lots of melting going on.

I asked my regular truck mechanic if I could borrow his stethoscope to listen to the bearings. He didn't have one, so I asked one auto parts store clerk when I was there getting other parts, and they didn't sell them, but could order it. So I figured I'd just use a stick like everyone says I should do.

Well, everyone likes new tools and that includes me. I looked online at Napa and they had one listed. I called my local store and they had one on hand. So $12 later I had a very nice mechanic stethoscope ready to tackle this investigation job.

I lowered the back out rigger so that I could run the carriage head back and forth without sending the hitch end into outer space, again,,,,, don't ask me how I know that happens

And removed the track wiper/oiler thing in between the bearing covers, the bearing covers, the battery cover, and the chain guard. Got out my one replacement bearing and a nice steel splitting wedge to hold the frame up after I figured out which bearing was bad.

I ran the carriage back and forth four or six times and it glided down and back like new, no noise, no sticking, no binding, nothing. I tested or listened to each bearing on the four on top and couldn't hear any binding in them. I listened to the two on the chain drive and couldn't hear anything there.

I couldn't run it down and back to listen to the bottom bearing as I was alone and couldn't start and stop the carriage from underneath the mill. So I don't know if the lower ones are the ones binding up or not.

I'll have to wait until Monday afternoon when my friend stops by and we can do this together to see if I can figure out which one is binding.

If I was to tell you that it only binds when sawing does that give you an clue as to whether or not it is the power feed unit bearings or the track bearings?

It did bind on the last few logs I did saw at the "road job" but it seemed like it was only binding when it was passing over the axle area, which made me seem to think that something may have been rubbing but I checked everywhere and there was good clearance between the battery box and the axle and frame....so I don't get it....

As of right now, I'm kind of stumped as to what it is......

Jim Rogers

Chuck White · « **Reply #20 on:** February 21, 2010, 10:34:01 am »

Jim; Just curious. I know you have the LT30 and I have the LT40, but how many hours on the meter on your mill!

Just kinda want to get a feel as to when I may need to change the bearings on my mill. I have 1157 hours on my mill!

thanks

pineywoods · « **Reply #21 on:** February 21, 2010, 10:52:17 am »

Quote from: Chuck White on February 21, 2010, 10:34:01 am

Just kinda want to get a feel as to when I may need to change the bearings on my mill. I have 1157 hours on my mill!

thanks

Bearing life varies all over the place. Generally, stationary mill bearings outlast traveling mills. Likewise the bearings on manual mills seem to last longer than those with hydraulics. Lots of contributing factors. My old 95 lt40 (never been on the road)has 7100 hours and still has the original head support bearings. Both bandwheels have had new bearings. The guide roller bearings have been replaced several times.

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #22 on:** February 21, 2010, 02:08:52 pm »

Chuck, I think I have over 5100 hours on mine, I'm at home now and can't check meter for sure, but within a 100 hours for sure....

As I had mentioned I have replace the two lower ones and I think the tag on them said 2900 hours or so...

Magicman · « **Reply #23 on:** February 21, 2010, 02:26:08 pm »

Jim, I probably know the answer to this question before I ask it, but do you have an "operators seat" on that mill? I'm just trying to eliminate stuff.

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #24 on:** February 21, 2010, 02:46:29 pm »

It came with a seat but I haven't use it in many years, maybe I can get it out a rob some bearing off it if they aren't all junk by now......

Magicman · « **Reply #25 on:** February 21, 2010, 03:54:58 pm »

Quote from: Jim_Rogers on February 21, 2010, 08:54:59 am

but it seemed like it was only binding when it was passing over the axle area Jim Rogers

OK, back to the drawing board. How about a few stretched/bad links in the drive chain close to the axle area?
Maybe a dropped slab or cant or something caught the chain and deformed, twisted, or stretched it in some way. Are the rollers free on all of the links?

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #26 on:** February 21, 2010, 06:08:13 pm »

I was thinking the same thing, I'll have to loosen the end stop and remove the chain and see how it flexes.... in that area.....

woodmills1 · « **Reply #27 on:** February 21, 2010, 06:35:50 pm »

for some reason binding is always worse at the wheel area. every instance I had on the 40 and now on the 70 was worse(slower feed) over the wheels. Jim I think bottem roller or chan idler.

check your band height at the first bunk if the outside of the band is even or lower than the inside I would bet bottem roller

bugger to figger out.

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #28 on:** February 21, 2010, 06:47:20 pm »

thanks I'll check that out tomorrow.....

LeeB · « **Reply #29 on:** February 21, 2010, 06:58:39 pm »

Take the cover off the battery box and check for a shiny spot. Mine was doing exactly the same thing due to the cover getting bent at some point and catching on a bolt head right at the axle. It was really hard to see and took me a long time to find it. I thought it was bearings too. You might also want to take a wire brush to the rail wiper and clean out some of the old compacted saw dust, then re-oil with ATF.

WH_Conley · « **Reply #30 on:** February 21, 2010, 08:42:59 pm »

Look at the round stock on the side and bottom, there are a couple of bolts that are to make sure the head doesn't jump off. If they are touching anywhere there will be a shiny spot of the round stock.

backwoods sawyer · « **Reply #31 on:** February 21, 2010, 10:25:47 pm »

If you take a 4x4 sticker and stand it up under the travel pin hole, then lower the head down onto it, then lower down some more until the lower bearing are free from the rail, the bearing should turn freely, you can feel an issue with one when spinning it.
Binding at the axles can come from not having enough pressure on the front or rear out rigger when milling.

Magicman · « **Reply #32 on:** February 22, 2010, 09:39:19 am »

Quote from: backwoods sawyer on February 21, 2010, 10:25:47 pm

Binding at the axles can come from not having enough pressure on the front or rear out rigger when milling.

I thought about that last night. With this wet ground, outriggers will "settle" in and the mill could easily become twisted and out of "whack". I had to re-level mine last week after sawing a couple of heavy SYP logs. My operator's seat started dragging on the tire, which was why I questioned if Jim was using one. I had to jack the center outriggers up a notch to re-level.

pineywoods · « **Reply #33 on:** February 22, 2010, 10:46:30 am »

Neighbor up the road had the exact same problem. Battery box dragging on the head of a bolt. Now he remembers dropping a cant on the battery box

backwoods sawyer · « **Reply #34 on:** February 22, 2010, 11:27:41 pm »

I was talking with woodmizer about this problem quite awhile back, so I don’t remember who, but he mentioned that I should check to see if one of the three sets of lower bearings was to tight. I found that my mill only has two sets, even though it was drilled and tapped for the third set.

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #35 on:** February 23, 2010, 11:12:47 am »

You guys have given me a lot to look at, and I really am thankful for all the help.

Once some more good weather gets here I'll have a chance to lay down under the mill and look at everything going on while it's moving, but I won't be doing that today......

pnyberg · « **Reply #36 on:** February 23, 2010, 05:02:29 pm »

Based on what I'm seeing for a weather forecast for this part of the world, you won't be doing that until some time next week. It's nasty out there.

--Peter

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #37 on:** April 03, 2010, 08:45:45 am »

Well, it's been a while since I posted anything in this thread.....

After re-setting the mill up in it's usual location, after that last road job, I sawed out two logs for an order of 2 1/8" eastern white pine.

No binding or dragging at all...... made me kind of thing I was loosing it.....

Then about a week went by and when out to saw something else...... and dragging and binding all over again.....

It's been pretty wet up here lately and not doing much sawing, just dealing with sump pumps and don't get me going on that subject at all......

I've been getting calls for road jobs, and got some local orders for some lumber and didn't want to be working and pushing this mill through the logs any more, so Thursday, I called up the Maine branch (and bite the bullet) and ordered 5 new roller bearing for the track as I had one on hand. And the two bearing for the power feed shaft.

Being that I'm in MA and Maine is only about 2.5 hours drive from here most all UPS delivers are overnight.

So yesterday, as sure as it was Friday, my package arrived.

I friend stopped by to see what was up at the mill and after we towed my one ton truck out of the way, because the starter is gone..... it's always something right after you get something else fixed something breaks again......we got out some tools and a nice big piece of plywood (I hate to even say I own one....but I didn't buy it, it was in the back of a pickup truck as a bed liner, when I bought the truck) and a big piece of cardboard to lay down one, over the deck of 1" slab I'm walking on as the ground is quite muddy here lately.....(sump pump weather for sure).....I got down under the mill and changed the two lower bearings.....
The second one I put in wasn't even rubbing the bottom rail after I installed it.... don't know what's up with that.... and then we lifted the head up one by one and changed all four of the upper ones.....

The mill rolls real nice now.... but it did at times before, so I'm not sure if the problem was the bearing or the power feed shaft.
Looking at my parts book I see that the same bearing that the chain rides over next to the power feed shaft sprocket is the same bearing used by the track rollers. So I can use one of the removed used bearings to replace that if and that's a big "IF" the problem is the idler bearing on the chain.

After we got done putting everything back together, it was late afternoon and we moved up four oak logs for the next order. And then stopped everything for the day.

Being that I was up half the night dealing with sump pumps, I was beat.... and went home.

So today, I'm going to go out and try cutting up these oak logs and see how it goes.

By the way each one of the rollers we removed spun fairly ok, one my friend say seem kind of "dry".... I told him the story about soaking them in ATF oil and holding on to them for replacement, which I will probably do...two of them were the oldest on the mill and had the grease fitting on the end of the bolt. And they didn't seem to be that bad.

And I checked the alignment before and after and it seems that the mill was sitting higher by one sixteenth of an inch when we were done. I'm not going to change any alignment settings until I saw out something like and 8x8 and see how it comes out.

I'll post again later or next week when I finally figure out what was wrong, if I can or do....

Thanks for all your advice and suggestions to those who posted....

Jim Rogers......

dry at the moment.......and still pumping water.....

Jim_Rogers · « **Reply #38 on:** April 03, 2010, 03:34:30 pm »

Well, I just cut up an oak log and didn't have any dragging or binding problems. So, it must have been that one dry bearing, I guess.

I have a few more planks to edge but so far so good, rolling down and back nicely.....

Also, I checked the cant and it was 8x8 and it seemed square when I checked it with a framing square so I guess there isn't any fine adjustments I need to make to the alignment....

It is nice when something that wasn't working correctly starts working right.......

Hot out there today, almost need shorts.......

Tom · « **Reply #39 on:** April 03, 2010, 03:49:10 pm »

Don't you love it when things work out so good? It makes the next time not seem so ominous. The more I worked with my LT40 the more I realized what a simple and well thought out thing it was.

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Author Topic: Woodmizer bearing problem? (Read 7738 times)