Skidding logs with a tractor

[Gordon]

I would like to know how many of you use tractors to skid logs. I've got a Kubota L3750 and a Norse skidding winch. I've used this setup for sometime now and it's proven to be a very reliable setup.

I go after the smaller plots that alot of the larger companies don't want to mess with. This works out well for both myself and the landowner.
Gordon

[Ron Wenrich]

There are too many limiting factors for the use of a tractor.  Tree size and terrain come to mind.

For low impact logging, these smaller tractors may have some merit, but it should be coupled with some sort of forwarding system to make it truly low impact.

How many feet can you haul out with your setup?  36" butt logs are not uncommon in PA, especially on those small tracts.  That's 450-500 bf in an 8' log.  Weight around 3 tons.  Then, how many trips do you need to get out the whole tree and how long for a turn?  After a while, your logging costs get to be pretty high.

We had one logger who used mules.  Low impact, low initial cost, and low operational costs.  But, you have to be pretty close to your landing, and payloads are reduced.  They can buy timber that other loggers can't touch due to the low impact.

More and more loggers are starting to cut those smaller jobs.  The lower limit is about 20 Mbf, but if the timber is nice, is even lower.  I once saw a large company logging out a 1 acre lot.  If the wood is cheap enough or nice enough, they'll come after it.

[Gordon]

Woodtick you are right there are limiting factors involved. The terrain around here is flat but traction alot of times is the limiting factor on how much I can skid out. But that goes directly with tree size.

There is no way that I could compete with a skidder for the amout of bf per skid. But you might be surprized on how close I could run!
Gordon

[Robert_in_W._Mi.]

  I'm new here on this forum so hope my post doesn't break any rules.
 I use a tractor to skid, and load logs with.  I mostly saw for my self, so if it's a little slower, no problem.  I've not had any problem skidding any log i've hooked to yet.
 I have some pictures on line that shows my tractor, and my mill and edger in action.
 Hope you all enjoy them,
 Robert

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1331114

[Jeff]

Welcome to the board Robert! Great pictures!

[Corley5]

  Dad and use our 180 Massey Ferguson equipped with a Fransgard 4000 skidding winch.  It works good for us.  Last winter we used a friend's 240B TimberJack cable machine to cut some maple off Grandma's place. What a machine.  Tha snow pack was a little much for the MF but it didn't bother the Timberjack any.
 My Grandpa skidded logs for years with his H Farmall.  Just remember that farm tractors weren't designed with logging in mind and more care must be taken when using them in the woods.

[timberbeast]

Monday morning I'll be skidding with an Allis Chalmers B,  with tire chains.  I wouldn't recommend it for someone who is not totally familiar with the tractor and its capabilities,  balance,  etc.  But under the right conditions,  with the right hookup,  it's amazing what that little tractor can pull.  That tractor has been pulling logs for my family since the 40's.

[L. Wakefield]

   Here is a truly numb question- I've pulled out brush with my tractor, but never a log- heard too many bad stories about accidents. Here's the numb part- which end do you pull it by?
  If it's the 'top' end, you'd have to limb it or the limbs would dig in. If it's the butt, you have to elevate it some or the butt digs in. The higher you lift it, the worse off you are.

[Gordon]

After I started this thread I began to wonder if anyone else used a tractor to skid with. Glad to hear from a few others.

Robert nice pictures, also thats a nice grapple on that loader, bet that thing is sure nice to have. Can you tell I'm dreweling at the sight of it.

Corey and Timberbeast bring up very good points as to the safety of using a tractor to skid with. One must be on his or her toes constantly when skidding with a tractor.

Gordon

[Jeff]

Lets see a new thread in our safety section you tractor guys!

[Robert_in_W._Mi.]

Glad you enjoyed my picts..
As far as safety, it all depends on what tractor you use.  I've had a Red Oak picked up with my 3 point that was still 29" in diameter ten feet up, and the front end never did get light.  You just have to be care full, and move slow.
I have 750 pounds of cloride in each rear tire on this tractor, and i've still picked up logs with the loader that lifted the rear of the tractor!!!  I now know how it feels when it starts to lift, so i just stop lifting and let it settle down.  My tractor has enough traction to let the forks and the log lightly skid on the ground if i need to move ahead to get close to the running gear before lifting.
The older tractors are where most of the problems are as all most all of them are front end light!!  Add in some one who didn't grow up around them, and you have a "real" problem!
BTW, i always use my seat belt as this tractor has ROPS.
Robert

My Milling Pictures,
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1331114

[Gordon]

Jeff, yes I've got a few items to add to the safety thread. I'll also start one on tractors. Got a few da-louies to add in that one. Don't you know a equipment operator named Capt. Nemo? Think that might fit pretty good under that thread.

L. Wakefield, yes you want to top the tree first to get rid of the limbs. What your interested in hauling out is the log itself.

To your question of big end small end. So of course first you want to drop the tree. With the tractor on the skidding trail, if you drop the tree away from the trail then the stump will sometimes be in the way to start the pull out to the trail. If you drop the tree towards the trail then you don't have the stump in the way at the beginning of the pull. So sometimes big end sometimes small end. Depends on the situation

After you pull the logs towards the the tractor then you hook in the lower snatchblock and lift the three point hitch to elevate the butts of the trees. Even though the tree does weigh quite abit you are only lifting a portion of the weight. Another thing that is key is that the winch is close to the back of the tractor. This creates less of a counterbalance effect. When I'm skidding I've got a front end loader with a bucket loaded to counteract the weight on the rear. Also having four wheel drive and rear chains helps in the traction area.

Once moving one must be careful of snags or stumps of course. The nice thing about this area is that it's flat overall. Skidding logs with a tractor is not for everyone. Like anything else in the woods it is very-very dangerous.
Did I even come close to answering your questions?
Gordon  

[Jeff]

Yup, Nemo will surface when the time is right!

[L. Wakefield]

   Yes, that was quite helpful. I've seen weights made to bolt onto the front end of the tractor, but haven't yet devised such for myself. Didn't actually think of putting something in the bucket
 
  The contents of one post had suggested to me that maybe the safe way was to skid them out while driving backwards- that is, hook them to the bucket and then back up. Hmm, I will have to tell you sometime about the backwards steering tractor, brain damage, and why I DON'T LIKE TO BACK UP...

  Had a serendipitous (good) effect from some high winds here. We still have a fair amount of standing deadwood prime to be felled and cut up for firewood. We had a major windstorm, and some of these puppies just laid themselves right down for me. Easy, huh? No worries abbout dropping it on my various body parts

  My husband told me about walking near the hemlock swamp during this same windstorm- the ground is very wet and the trees, while tall, are very shallow rooted. The frost was just coming out of the ground, and he said as the wind was roaring, the trees were tossing so much the ground around their roots was actually lifting up- he said he could feel it under his feet! Tall tale? I'm not sure. I was torn between giving him 'heck' for not getting OUT of there- and wishing I'd been there to see. Rabbit running for shelter- and then peeking out to see if it really IS a tornado. Wouldn't be the first time.

[Robert_in_W._Mi.]

  Loaders are NOT designed to take side stress!  I've see tractors broken in half from this.
 Pull from the rear, and unless you have a fairly big tractor with some weight on the front end, use the draw bar!!
 Pull SLOW, and a skidding winch is a good investment of a smaller tractor!!
 Robert
 My Milling Pictures
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1331114

[Gordon]

Robert is right about the bucket being dangerous. It also changes your center of gravity whenever your pulling something with the loader or with the three point hitch. That's why if you don't have a winch it's always best to pull from the drawbar. It's under the axle and below the center of gravity on the tractor more likely to spin tires rather than flip the tractor.

Also have to remember that when using the loader even with loaded tires it's best to have weight on the three point hitch to counter act the weight your putting on the front of the tractor.

L Wakefield here is a page you might be interested in. Has some pretty good info. about farm tractor skidding.

http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/forestry/420-090/420-090.html

Gordon

[Crazy_Canadian]

Hi There, 12 years ago I bought a new Ford 5610 4WD tractor with frontend loader and attached a Norse winch with hinged dozer blade. Although I was mainly in the fuelwood business, I pulled some big wood with this outfit. It would actually pull as much as the JD 440 as long as had the material bucket full of blocked wood.
Both tractors and skidders have advantages and disadavantages, however if your lucky enough to learn how to skid properly with the right tractor and winch you will make an awesome skidder operator. A tractor is like a deer in the woods, while a skidder is like a moose and feels no pain. The concept is largely the same with both pieces of equipment, since its the winch that gets you out of most technical problems, by either droping the hitch or winching it in. The safety factors are different though. The tractor operator must be more aware of overhead dangers and spears.
I sold the 5610 after 6 years of use and bought a JD540A which I do commercial thinning with.
John

[L. Wakefield]

Gordon- thanx mucho for the MOST EXCELLENT webpage reference. Answers all my questions- and with pictures. I need pictures. I do have a 50-something HP tractor, but it's 2wd. I have lotsa acres, but timber is -NOT- mature- whereas I -am- mature, by far.
  I wonder how the safety stats compare between logging and firefighting?      lw

[Gordon]

John, I like that analogy---the tractor is like a deer and the skidder is like a moose that feels no pain. I wouldn't have a skidding winch without a blade at the bottom of it. Comes in handy for a lot of stuff. You have to use finesse with a tractor thats for sure. Just don't have the brut force of a skidder.

Did you have a lot of hours on the tractor when you traded it? What kind of wood did you skid?

Gordon

[Robert_in_W._Mi.]

  I see Norwood is now selling skidding winches for tractors with a 3 point hitch.
 I have several products that Norwood sells, and all have been very good.
 Robert

 Norwoods Skidding Winches
http://www.norwoodindustries.com/skidmaster.htm

 My Milling Pictures
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1331114