New or Used saws

[boobap]

just curious...i would rather buy used and replace any worn or broken parts, but I am a cheap ba%t#rd!!!!

[Stutz]

It really depends.
To add a saw to a collection I would go   used – very used
To buy a saw to earn a living     new – almost new

[Rocky_J]

I make my living with my saws. I have done the used saw thing (money has always been tight), but used saws end up costing me too much. It's cheaper for me to buy new than to fix something that somebody else has misused/abused.

I run all modified saws now and have learned that ALL used modified saws for sale are not worth it. People simply do not spend the money to get a saw ported and then sell it unless it's a dog. And after having about 20 saws ported, I've found that at least half of them are dogs. And ALL of the low-hour ported saws for sale are dogs. People sell their mistakes.

[Al_Smith]

It's more of a hobby to me although I do use the noisey things . In my life time I've bought two new saws and I still have them ,they run just fine .

If I were making a living with a saw ,it would be new ones .Since I don't I can be selective with used ones .Twitter and tweak all I care to .If they run like scalded apes or fly apart like a dollar watch I'm not out any thing other than my time and a few bucks .Sooo if they come apart on me of which they never have ,I just trot off to the shed and get another one . With like 40 runners it's not likely I'll wear them all out .

[boobap]

40? i wish...at my rate, well, my wifes rate (unless i hide them) i will be like 80  before i have 40...i only have 9 and i turn 30  at the end of this month

[chucker]

when its your life line, weather money is tight or not new is the way to go!! buying lightly used is an option but will still cost in the end! a warrenty is worth its weight in gold considering time is money these days and everyday as well ....   just be sure to justify a new tool for work and not just want !!  been on both ends of the cross cut!

[nas]

I can usually find good saws for about 1/2 new price or less.  bought my 066 for $400 and my 365 for $300.  Both in very good shape.  Some people seem to buy a pro saw and then find they bought more than they need or they need the money more than the saw, so they offload it.

Nick

[Al_Smith]

Oh you can get some dandy deals on saws if you look around .If however they need some work done and it must be hired out you could get almost as much in it  as a new  saw .

If you have the gumption you can keep them running almost forever .Then again though if you can't work on them it can be costly .

As I type sitting on my bench is a Stihl 038 Mag .This saw has been in almost continual use for over 20 years for a tree service company . I've had it apart 3 times in the last 5 years and this time it has to have the crank case replaced . Now think how much labor would have  cost had the work been done at a dealer .Likely 4 times what the saw is worth . Something to think about .

[John Bartley]

Buying new or used, and deciding whether or not either is "worth it" is going to depend on how you value your own time.

If you enjoy the work, and don't mind fixing up your own used saws, then there is no way  to calculate the value of the used saw because there's no way to put a value on personal pleasure. However, if you are doing the repairs strictly for profit (trying to save money by buying used rather than new), then you have to value your repair time either at service shop rate, or at the same rate you'd make by actually using the saw.

If you value your time realistically, and eliminate the pleasure factor, I've rarely found an economy to replacing new equipment purchases with used and repaired equipment. Sometimes it's effective, but rarely.

just my $0.02 worth

EDIT : this assumes buying "used & needs repair" - buying "used, ready to work" is an entirely different matter

[Cut4fun]

I run all modified saws now and have learned that ALL used modified saws for sale are not worth it. People simply do not spend the money to get a saw ported and then sell it unless it's a dog. And after having about 20 saws ported, I've found that at least half of them are dogs. And ALL of the low-hour ported saws for sale are dogs. People sell their mistakes.

I can tell you from my experience this just isn't true Rocky.  I bought my woods ported gas saws from guys in the know. I then started selling my woods ported saws to select people too.
Some of my saws had just won at winter GTG and and big shows like at the SC Timberfest in the gas classes. So dont lump all saws being sold into your misfortunes. I have sold 2 1st place saws and were tops in their class for years and another that wasnt woods ported but piped 084 and on pump gas that could get you placed in a alky show.
So not all woods ported saws being sold are dogs.

But yes Rocky I did see a lot of DOGS and PIGS etc go for sale after the last gtg too. It's buyer beware and like I said ask and search before purchase and getting port work done.

[bandmiller2]

It all depends if you do all your own saw work,if you can fix em by all means go used.What works well is to buy a good new medium size saw then for the special like large saws by used and repair.I bought a husky 365 used at a flea market for 3.50 for parts it was worn out no compression put a new piston and rings bearings and seals carb kit, its now like new ,I spent chump change.If I had to hire the work done it wouldn't be worth it.Frank C.

[Al_Smith]

I've done very well picking up saws from web forums .Most needed some work but all the sellers were straight up and honest with me and the prices were really reasonable . Something you might not get on an online auction site .

Now on those ported saws and my opinion of why some are less than desireable .I really think a few years back that some builders got the bright idea to do cookie cutter saws .Some might really rip though an 8 by 8 but lacked the torque to make a good work saw .Of course not all were done that way .

Too much was taken for granted that they had to be fast as lighting to cut those cants because if they got beat by half a second at a GTG the thing was deemed a hunk of junk . I really believe that is what caused an epidemic of poorly modified saws .

[Ed]

I pretty much run new saws....
Bought an 066 from a friend, he's not the best on maintaince, takes care of the basics, uses good oil and fuel, the ol' girl still pulls strong. It got 3lbs lighter after I tore it down and cleaned it. 
As far as buying a used modded saw, I would have to spend some "quality" time with it. I think it's easier to buy a dog than a good one.

Ed

[Al_Smith]

Stories can abound about rebuilds .

One I know about was also on an 066 .The thing had been ran with no,mind you no air filter ,ruined it . My little bud the tree trimmer picked it up for 50 bucks and had a Stihl shop rebuild it for around 500 .It was by far the best running purely stock 066 I have ever seen .Some low life stole it last year .

I had it at one of the GTG's a year or so ago and some on this site saw it.It looked like a new one .

[quietrangr]

As to do-it-yourself repairs: it depends on how many mistakes you make fixing it, and taking it apart again. Then there's the price of new repair parts, like $44 for a set of 361 genuine Stihl piston rings. The parts are a lot cheaper if you buy them all put together in a new saw. There's the price of down time, and just the aggravation of the saw not working right. I would say for a pro, about 2500 hours is the time to trade or sell or use as a spare. That's when you start replacing clutches, and have noticeable engine wear. Those saws will serve a firewood cutter or occasional user for quite a while. I just bought a new 361, but fixed the oiler for my 3500 hour 361, and will keep it for a spare.

[Al_Smith]

3500 actual running hours on a chainsaw  Wow .

[John Mc]

Those saws will serve a firewood cutter or occasional user for quite a while.

Comments like this seem pretty common. There is something that just doesn't make sense to me, though. I don't fell trees or cut firewood commercially, but my saw sure seems to be working harder when bucking up firewood tan when felling. When bucking, one cut after another in hardwood without much of a break seems like quite a workout on the saw. Compared to felling, when I make a few cuts, then a bit of a break before my next cut. Bucking is the only time I've had real heat problems on one of my saws (at least until I replaced the muffler with a non-cat version).

If I were more heavily into firewood, I figure my saws would be getting quite a serious workout (at least until I got into a processor). Am I missing something? What is it about firewood that makes it easier on a saw than felling/logging?

[chucker]

simply!! "NONE" or NOTHING MAKES IT EASIER!! pulping has fewer cuts doing about a 10 cord semi load as to equal to a 2 cord load of firewood. as to john Mc, question on easy, firewood cutting is a constant ..... some times as long as 20 minutes for a full tank of fuel to run out before a shut down!! bucking or blocking most common hardwoods at a size of 12" is average for most. heat at a full tanks fuel run with a lite oil to gas mixture will burn a saw fastest!!  oil/gas mixed at a higher ratio will cool to a extent better then lite! now comes the oppisition on mixtures right?   same as drilling into heavy metal with a bit and no oil? what happens?? extra oil and the bit will stay cooler!!  SIMPLY SAID... oil to cool ! dont be a fool!!

[ladylake]

Nothing wrong with running more oil just make sure to open up the high a little as mix with more oil in it wont flow through the jets as easy.  Steve

[quietrangr]

Yes, you guys are right. If you're using your saw to cut firewood as a business venture, so you're using it everyday for fairly long periods, that's definitely harder on the saw than pro felling and trimming of logs. But if you're like most people, just cutting your own ten or twelve cords a year, your saw should last a long time.


I had about 4500 hours on my 2171 before I quit using it in the woods. My 361 cylinder and piston still look good, but the rings are worn. I bought a big bore aftermarket kit for it, and am selling the stihl cylinder and piston. The Stihl ran with Amsoil Professional 2 cycle mixed at 70 to 1.

[John Mc]

When you guys are talking about hours of use on a chainsaw, are you talking about hours you were working in the woods, or actual hours of run time on the chainsaw? That is, if you work an 8 hour day in the woods, are you counting that as 8 hours of time on the chainsaw, or something less than that (possibly significantly less, depending on what you are doing), since the chainsaw isn't in use 100% of the time.

I have to say, I had no idea a chainsaw would go 3500 or 4500 running hours before it was shot. I would have guessed far less than that, even if you took good care of it. Mine will probably die of old age or some stupid thing I do before they reach those numbers.

John Mc

[quietrangr]

I saw from about 7 to 2, or around seven hours, then I jump on the forwarder and bring it in to the landing. Seven hours minus an hour for breaks is six hours a day, times about 24 days a month, equals 144 hours, times 12 months is 1728 hours a year minus two weeks off for good behavior, er...I mean...vacation...equals 1662. I was guesstimating at 1500 hours a year earlier, and it could even be a little less than that. But 1500 a year should be pretty close. I use up about one chain a week. My 2171 worked full time for three years, but it's not done yet. Still has some life in it, still runs decent.

Those saws are amazing. Just think how you'd look after going up and down 10,000 times a minute for 3,000 or 4,500 hours.

[stonebroke]

So you saying total saw time not the amount of time the saw is actually being used?

Stonebroke

[Rocky_J]

So you saying total saw time not the amount of time the saw is actually being used?

Stonebroke

I have no idea what you're trying to say exactly, but he's talking about running time. That's the amount of time the saw is making noise, burning fuel and hot air is coming out of the muffler.   

[quietrangr]

Rocky has it right. I saw for seven hours. During the seven hours sawing, I'm on breaks maybe an hour, so six hours or so running time. I based the 1500 hours a year on six hours a day, 24 days a month. I'm a logger, so it's pretty consistent time per day. I used to have a tree service. Then I put in fewer hours on the big saw, but they were harder hours, more like firewood cutting, but every day. Could wear out a big saw in a hurry blocking up those three foot diameter elm trees.

[stonebroke]

I meant the amount of time the saw is actually working as opposed to just iding or shut off. On tractors most tractors are adjusted to PTO speed which means that when a tractor is iding then is a accumlating hours at a much lower rate. In logging this would probably be equivalent to someone bucking fire wood constantly,i.e.  high revs working and not much slack time. I doubt if any chainsaw could stand 3500 hours constant use at max horsepower.

Stonebroke

[quietrangr]

I will go insane trying to figure out how much it's idling and how much it's sawing.  (Closest smiley I could find to showing an insane guy.) There's not a whole lot of time that it's shut off. I might as well be home in bed if it's shut off, though every hour or so I might take a five minute sit-down.

[boobap]

i was at this motorsports shop a few months back. they have these cool little (i mean small) hour meters that are about $35. they have a led that coils around the + side of the coil led. also they auto shut off...yes this will only tell you running time, but i don't let my saws idle much...

[flushcut]

 I have only bought one used saw out of my nine and that was a 3120xp that was barely used and has good compression.

[Bruce Hopf]

I bought a few (8 to be exact) used Stihl Pro chain saws, from my local dealer. The customer didn't want to pay to get them fixed, so they traded them in. I was able to get them at a decent price. They ranged from $75.00, to $100.00. One was for $150.00, while the other one was for $200.00
One needed a total rebuild, new bearings, and seals, gasket kit, carburetor repair kit, and a P&C kit. That was an 044.
I picked up a couple 034's, pistons for both needed to be replaced, and carburetor repair kits, as well.
I picked up another 044, for $100.00, and all it needed was a clutch bearing, and the drive for the oiler, from the clutch hub. The piston, and cylinder looked close to new. It hadn't seen very much work at all. This one was ported by a friend of mine, and he also did the muffler modification to it as well.
I picked up 2- 024's, one needed new fuel, and oil caps, plus a carburetor repair kit. The bottom of the chain saw was wet with bar oil, and the dealer assumed that the crank case gasket was leaking, but it turned out that the oil cap was doing the leaking, while the other 024, needed a carburetor repair kit.
I got a 064, for $150.00, and all it needed was a new base gasket, carburetor repair kit, intake boot, fuel line, and I had a 24" bar and chain already for it.
I ran into a box of 084 parts, with a few crank cases, and almost all the parts, except a couple, and the flywheel had a couple of fins broken off. I ran into another 084, that the seals, and bearings were gone, for $200.00, scavenged what parts I needed from it, and finished the 084, I was working on. I put a new 30" bar and chain on it, as well.
Sure I bought a few intake boots, and fuel lines, but I have enough saws to cut all the fire wood I'm going to cut, but I did all the work myself. I'm like All Smith, do it as a hobby, and hope to do a little business on the side.
I have invested in these 8 chain saws, with new parts that were needed to get them running again, was between $1,750.00, to $1,800.00, and that was including the bar, and new chains, that I put on them.
But then again, I'm only a wood cutter here on the farm. I mostly cut fire wood for myself, and sell a bit on the side as well.
If you are a handy person, that you are able fix things, and rebuild an engine of a chain saw, on your own, used would be a easier way to go. If not, new would be the way to go for you.
I got my chain saws, from a dealer, and there was no modifications done to them, until I got them anyway. I'm a very mechanically inclined person, and I also used to be a Authorized Factory Service Mechanic for another Stihl Dealership (not the one I got the chain saws from), a few years ago, so that helps. Bruce.

[Bruce Hopf]

3500 actual running hours on a chainsaw  Wow .

I have a McCulloch Mac 10-10, that my Great Uncle bought new in 1968, (42 years old) and it has cut a heck of a pile of fire wood.  It is still a very strong running chain saws,  but I don't use it that much any more, because it is a bit heavier, that my Stihl 044's, slower in the cut, and has no anti vibration. 
I had no choice but to go to Stihl, because they have the anti vibration, plus of health reasons too.  Bruce

[Glenn]

I have always bought new saws but ...  3 years ago i found a retired guy who had a brand new in box pioneer/partner p52 plus.  He bought 2 of them (in 1984 i think), used one and had the other one in the garage atic all this time in the box.  The one he used was still running decent but had seen alot of work.  He offered me the new one and i bought it right away.  It had never even seen gas.  I love it - its what i learned to saw with when i was a kid.  I have cut about 8 tandem loads of logs into firewood each year for 3 years (24 loads)without any trouble - same bar.  It runs great lots of power.  I put on an 8 tooth sprocket and its plenty fast now too.  I'm going to look for more cause I know they are out there.

[HolmenTree]

Ever since I was old enough to get a job making a living with a saw [16], I bought new, the saw & parts are a tax right off so you get 1/2 the money spent back anyways.
Years ago when mechanical harvesting took away my falling job I took the lumber grading course & job at the sawmill. Sitting in a chair for 8 hrs turning & marking lumber made me miss the bush, so I bought a brand new 066 Mag Red Lite/ 28" & a old beat up 1965 Ford F800 dump 3 ton & went out & cut/sold birch firewood.
I'd get a timber permit, drive the 3 ton right into the stand of birch, with snow on the ground in winter I'd throw a set of tire chains on the rear. Summer was a little easier going but you had leaves which cut visability.
 I'd fell my trees, block them up into 24". With the 066s clutch cover off, bar nuts shimmed with washers I would then "noodle split" the blocks as they lay flat on the ground. Always lots of moss on the ground with no rocks, I had good going for years. That powerfull 066 ripped through big tough crotched birch blocks like butter.
I'd throw 2 cords loose onto the 3 ton & deliver to nearby cottage country & town customers. I at times was making 2 trips a day before going to work & "resting" at the sawmill job. $600  of wood sold a day plus my $200 a day lumber grading job was worth it.
Then I got into the "big money" residential tree removal jobs & I quit my sawmill job.
Willard