Price per board foot to work.

[KyMasterLogger]

im curious what other loggers charge per board foot to work. i know a lot of guys work for sawmills at a set price per thousand delivered, but i have no idea what that price is. how much is it to cut/fell timber? skid? cut to length? load? 

the reason i ask....im wanting to hire another logging crew to help me finish my job and im trying to figure a production based pay that is fair to everyone.   
 
TIA guys!

[timberfaller390]

What are you cutting? How big of a crew are you wanting to hire. What kind of equipment. You have alot of varibles that you need to elaborate on more. The cost will be varied between crews and thier capabilities. For instance a crew with a feller/buncher, grapple skidder or forwarder and processor will be alot different than a crew hand falling and skidding with a cable skidder. More info please.

[Mark K]

Most mills in this area pay $150 a thousand, with a $5 bonus for green certification. I do some contract work for a local mill and we get payed that to cut, skid and buck logs on landing. Doesn't matter if you are a one man operation with a cable skidder or a 6 man operation with a feller buncher and grapple skidders with a loader and slasher on the landing. I know the bigger operations truck there own wood, they get payed by the thousand for trucking. 

[captain_crunch]

Here in Oregon they pay 50.00 per thousand less than what it costs you to log it for them 

[KyMasterLogger]

this particular track is all hardwoods. red oak, white oak, maple, poplar, walnut and hickory. there is some beech and gum, but not much. im contracted to harvest 22 inch diameter and up, measured at the stump. im thinking a small crew of 2-4 guys with their own equipment.  cut by hand or machine, skid with a cable or grapple skidder either way is fine by me.


  

[KyMasterLogger]

Most mills in this area pay $150 a thousand, with a $5 bonus for green certification. I do some contract work for a local mill and we get payed that to cut, skid and buck logs on landing. Doesn't matter if you are a one man operation with a cable skidder or a 6 man operation with a feller buncher and grapple skidders with a loader and slasher on the landing. I know the bigger operations truck there own wood, they get payed by the thousand for trucking. 

how does that 15 cents break down for cutting, skidding and bucking?

[timberfaller390]

Most mills in this area pay $150 a thousand, with a $5 bonus for green certification. I do some contract work for a local mill and we get payed that to cut, skid and buck logs on landing. Doesn't matter if you are a one man operation with a cable skidder or a 6 man operation with a feller buncher and grapple skidders with a loader and slasher on the landing.

What you get paid and what it costs you are two different things. One guy with a chainsaw can fell timber cheaper than a guy with a buncher

[KyMasterLogger]

Most mills in this area pay $150 a thousand, with a $5 bonus for green certification. I do some contract work for a local mill and we get payed that to cut, skid and buck logs on landing. Doesn't matter if you are a one man operation with a cable skidder or a 6 man operation with a feller buncher and grapple skidders with a loader and slasher on the landing.

What you get paid and what it costs you are two different things. One guy with a chainsaw can fell timber cheaper than a guy with a buncher

i understand theres a higher operating cost with machines vs working by hand. however it will make no difference to what im willing to pay. would you pay someone more money to cut your trees with a felling machine?

[timberfaller390]

In your first post you were asking how much it costs to cut skid and buck logs, I was just trying to point out that no matter what the pay is a crew with machines will have a higher operating cost. You need to figure out how much you are being paid for the timber and then figure out how much you can pay an extra crew and still have a comfortable profit margin, if there is such a thing right now. Will the extra crew pay for itself AND put money in your pocket? I guess what I am saying is will the production from an extra crew be enough to warrant hiring them. The best way to figure out what is a good price is to ask some of the possible crews what they would like to get and if the margins are there then go for it, if not tell them what you can pay and go from there.

[Bibbyman]

Hi guys.   I just got lost and found my way here from the Sawmill section.  Just got a story to add then I’ll go back.

A couple of years ago a guy in a PU pulling a light utility trailer pulled into our sawmill lot.  He has on a load of oak poles from 4” to 8” dia.  I greeted him and asked what his plans were with the poles.  He said he came to sale them.  I asked for what.  He says logs.  I pointed out the logs we had on our lot and said, “These are logs.  What you have is firewood that ain’t been cut up yet.”.   

He made some argument that he had called Mary and she said we buy log.  Yea..  but… and explained that we had to have them large enough to handle and process and make product out of and his “logs” were way too small (not to mention crooked and some cases forks).

We happened to have about 5,000 bf of oak laid out to be scaled so we looked over them and I explained a bit about minimum size, length, adding trim, defect, grade, etc., and what we’d pay for a log like this verses a log like that.

By this time he was pretty depressed.  “Yea, but, those guys have big saws, skidders, loaders and heavy trucks.  All have is this borrowed trailer.  I spent a day loading these by hand.”. 

Someone had given him the “logs” from a dozer pile.  I advised him his best option was to cut them into firewood and take the load to the Wal-Mart parking lot and put a “4-SALE” sign on it. 

Last thing he said was,  “Well, guess I’m out of the logging business.”.   

I'll go back to my corner now...   

[Ron Wenrich]

I'm not really sure of the prices in my area, so I won't speculate.  But, I do know that everyone that contracts loggers won't allow them to buck logs.  That goes from small operations to large ones.  Too much money is lost by bad bucking practices. 

Loggers are paid to cut and skid.  Often the mill will take a loader and a slew of trucks when the landing is full. 

[Twig farmer]

I'm surprised at how different things are from place to place.

My thoughts..

You can't expect to pay the a man with a saw and an old bone skidder (like me) the same as you would pay a mechanized crew...
The best guy in the world with a saw can't lay the trees all the right way, minimizing damage. He also can't BEGIN to move the same volume of wood.

To me, it sounds like you want a mechanized crew in there with a tracked fellerbuncher...a *DanG big one. They will get it done in 1/10th the time with far less residual stand damage. They will also mechandize the whole tree while a guy with a saw and skidder will leave tops and limbs and bent over saplings and rubbed up leave trees and all manner of other "normal" conventional logging things.
If you pay a mechanized crew $130 a thousand to cut skid and buck, vs the 2 guys with saws and skidders $90 a thousand....
That $40 a thousand buys you a much cleaner job done in less than half the time..
Basically, $10,000 made in 1 week is better than $13,000 made in 2 months....then factor in the other stuff..
I hate saying this, as I hate the thought of guys like me being squeezed out of work....but facts is facts...

[tughill]

Personnally I do not buy into the logic that mechanical harvesting is somehow better for the woods than hand falling.  I've seen several mechanical harvests that were horrible.  So it can go either way.

The whole point of paying for production is that a guy with a chainsaw has less cost/overhead, but also has limited production capabilities.  Whereas the mechanized logger has much higher production capability, but much greater costs.  So in theory, one may or may not be cheaper than the other, but from the perspective of someone contracting a crew, it doesn't really matter what the subcontractors costs are.  What matters is how much you have to pay them, vice the quality of their work, as long as the work gets done in an acceptable timeframe.

[WH_Conley]

I can't see the justification of paying a mechanized crew more per thousand, the end product on the skid way or mill is what the money that you are out is based on. The guy with more machinery is out more, he should be producing more per hour. Is his quality any better? You don't pay an employee $5.00 more per hour just so he can drive a new pickup to work.

Little story, we have two brothers local here that each own their own logging operation. Cable skid only, the terrain will not allow feller/bunchers. They both have almost identical operations, only difference is one bucks with a bucksaw and the other bucks by hand  (extra employee). The one that bucks by hand has consistently better logs, straighter, less defects, guess it goes back to what Ron mentioned, why those mills bucked their own.

I have hired logging done, I have my own way of getting cost per thousand. Usually averaging log tickets from other mills. I am a small operation myself, but own several acres of land. I work out a deal with the logger on percentage, then we sell a few loads. I take the tickets and average price per foot, then figure our percentage. That is my cost per thousand for logging. After that all logs come to my place to be scaled and logging paid. I pick out the logs I want to keep and sell the rest at the appropriate mill. Kind of a minny concentration yard. I treat my loggers fair, after the first tract I have never had trouble getting loggers.

What works for in my situation might not work for someone else.

[stonebroke]

why should he pay more for a mech. operation. All you want is logs on the landing. You have to make sure he does a good job in the woods but I daresay there are mech. loggers and hand loggers that will do a equaljob of messing up your woods. Depends on the person. I would rather have a small skilled logger with a cable machine or forwarder in my woods then a humogous feller buncher and a giant grapple skidder trying to make their payments. But then I grow quality hardwoods for a clear cut it might be the other way around.

Stonebroke

[Ron Wenrich]

I'm curious at the amount of soil compaction those big machines make.  My area is in the ridge and valley system, and mechanized logging hasn't caught on.  Land ownership is usually fairly small, but the quality of wood is very good.  Tree size is fairly decent, and value is high. 

Mechanized logging does have its place.  Selective cutting on the ridges make bad locations for feller bunchers.  The only guy I know of with mechanized equipment is doing clearcuts ahead of the strip mines.  There are probably others. 

[Mark K]

Ron Wenrich-When we do contract work we are told to cut, skid and buck the logs. I had there log buyer for the job over my shoulder for the first 2 loads to make sure it is right. This mill is one of the biggest in NY. All there contract logger's are required to do this. 2 of the operations are mechanical harvesting along with about 6 regular crews that just cable skidders. Things are probably different all over the country but this is the way it is here. The problem I see with feller bunchers is you have to drive up to each tree.

Timberfaller- I under stand what your saying about operating costs. Naturally it costs more to operate a feller buncher than a chainsaw. When I can cut 2-4 thousand feet a day the depending on the skid, a feller buncher and grapple machine are putting out 10-12 thousand feet or more a day depending on the ground. So that crew will produce 3-4 times more meaning more production and more money for the day. Plus a feller buncher can cut on windy, nasty days, where a hand faller wouldn't attempt it.

[Twig farmer]

The mechanized crew, IF they care enough to try, can produce amazing amounts of wood in a short time...while mechandizing the whole tree (Usually) and leaving the tract looking like a park...virtually no rub trees, no destroyed regen.
Like I said, they get more for the work, but they produce so much more with less damage and waste that there's no comparing the two.
Believe me, I don't like the idea of small hand crews being passed over, I AM a self employed conventional logger. But I will be fully mechanized in the next 6-8 years, even if it's well used equipment.
 It's like prefering to dig a foundation hole with a spade rather than use an excavator. Makes no sense.
As far as soil compaction goes, a tracked fellerbuncher has a lower GP-PSI than any wheeled machine. They do tend to stir up the soil while turning, but that's not really anything more than a temporary blemish. Skidding will remove a lot of that.

[Twig farmer]

The problem I see with feller bunchers is you have to drive up to each tree.

That is the reason most NE mechanized crews use tracked machines. "Swing to tree" vs "drive to tree"..

[woodmills1]

I dug out a cellar hole with a tea spoon once but they only paid by the cup.