Author Topic: Waste Oil/Used Engine Oil (Read 4925 times)

boisblancboy · « **on:** January 09, 2010, 06:28:36 pm »

I know in the manual it says that you shouldnt use waste oil. Does anyone here use it? What are the reasons that you shouldnt use it?

chucker · « **Reply #1 on:** January 09, 2010, 06:42:42 pm »

solvents that are in the oil from being over heated and flooded engins, carbon deposits,gas and probably a few other elements.... after time the seals and o-rings will fail in the oil pump!!! BUT!! that has not stoped me from useing it when in a pinch... i do how ever filter the used oil through coffee filters and what ever i can find to make the best filtering system for what its worth..?? after filtering i add a little tranny fluid and diesal fuel to keep it flowing good. but then i guess when in a pinch could always pilfer the wifes five gallon jug of veggie oil hey ??

bandmiller2 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 09, 2010, 07:00:54 pm »

Some waste oil like turbine oil ,auto trans fluid, or air comp drainings if settled and filtered are not bad.You have to use your judgement,it just gets slung off anyways,its not like your running it through the engine.Frank C.

tstex · « **Reply #3 on:** January 09, 2010, 09:22:16 pm »

Seems like most of you guys are from up north, so I am not sure if you have termites or not? Here in SSW Texas, if you toss your tooth-pick on the ground after dinner, when you walk back by, it is gone.

I put all of my old fluids [oil, hydraulic, etc] into 5 gal buckets...I then strain and mix 1/2 pt diesel with 1 gal oil...i then put into a pump spray and spray all the bottom 2x4's and pickets at the base of my work sheds...early spring, they are pretty warm and just suck it up...it is now like treated wood...no spills, no waste and when the termites hit it, they always make a 180 with their tunnel !

I also save my larger [tractor hydraulic] filters and then fill them up with oil, then turn them upside down on the lg end-post of my bw-fence posts...this keeps them from drying out and splitting..they will last much, much longer. Very good way to re-cycle.

Good luck,
tstex

chucker · « **Reply #4 on:** January 09, 2010, 10:27:41 pm »

true that tstex!! use it on all the pole shed poles and bottom boards to the smaller sheds....also works great to treat new trailer bed decking..coat them twice a year makes for a long lasting deck.

bill m · « **Reply #5 on:** January 09, 2010, 10:31:49 pm »

I save the hydraulic oil from my tractor and use it in my saws. I will not use used motor oil.

Cut4fun · « **Reply #6 on:** January 09, 2010, 10:39:05 pm »

I work on a firewood cutters saw a couple times a year to clean the bar oiler filter because he runs old motor oil in it while he is unemployed and cant afford the bar oil.

Ed · « **Reply #7 on:** January 09, 2010, 11:30:39 pm »

Where's Gary???

Ed

sawguy21 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 10, 2010, 12:10:09 am »

I remember an old time logger that used the drainings from the diesel crawler as bar oil. He was madder than a wet cat every time the oiler quit working he had been doing it for years in his old Pioneer. What the beep was wrong with that DanG Stihl? I finally told him if he was too cheap to use clean bar oil I was quite happy to lighten his wallet in the shop.

windthrown · « **Reply #9 on:** January 10, 2010, 03:24:15 am »

Used motor oil will wear your oil chainsaw pump gearing and your bars and chains. Setteling and filtering it will not (repeat, not) get rid of all the fine particles in there, and it is rather abrasive. It is also a lot more toxic than fresh oil; heavy metals and blowby hydrocarbons remain in that stuff. And if you think that oils like hydrolic fluid, tranny and diff fluid are good for running in your chainsaws, think again. You can absorb hydrolic fluids through your skin in about 20 minutes, and you can also breathe it in throught your lungs. It winds up in your fatty tissues, and raises havoc with enzyme activity, screws up your nervous system, can permanently affect your nerves and cause paralysis and impaired muscle function, can cause tremors, vomiting and dirrahea. Good stuff, eh?

I have bought saws with used motor oil in the oil tanks, and I dump it into the motor oil recycle tank and I flush out the tank with paint thinner, and dump that one firewood that I am going to burn. Then I use fresh bar oil, made for chainsaws, like anyone that is sane would do. That also has tackifiers in it to make the oil stick to your bar, which used motor and hydrolic oils will not have. You hillbillies wanna save money and ruin your saws and spray heavy metals and hydrolic fluid around where you work? Well, good luck with that. My father used to do that kind of stuff, and he died of cancer at a fairly young age.

I swear, I can hear the banjo music playing around here...

Get real people. Do not do this crap to yourselves!

Al_Smith · « **Reply #10 on:** January 10, 2010, 07:43:28 am »

Now they claim that tests have shown that old black as tar motor oil doesn't wear out bars and chains but I don't believe it .

I have two buddys that have waste oil burners and I save my oil in a 50 gallon drum and they get it .One of them is heating a 60 by 100 shop with old oil .Works good , almost no smoke plus it's basically free .

The stuff isn't bad wood preservative but it isn't good either .Shall we say better than nothing .

I'm cheap but I'm not so cheap I can't buy bar oil .

bill m · « **Reply #11 on:** January 10, 2010, 08:11:31 am »

OK windthrown since you are the expert on here about oil what does hydraulic oil have in it to make so bad for you that bar oil does not? I know all oils are not the same and hydraulic oil does not have the additives that motor oil does. At 0 degrees I don't think I need tackifiers in my oil. I only use the hyd. oil mixed with bar oil when it is that cold. The rest of the year I use regular bar oil. Winter weight bar oil is to thin to run even when it is 0 out.IMO

Al_Smith · « **Reply #12 on:** January 10, 2010, 09:59:46 am »

Back in the days of non detergent motor oil you could recycle part of it for lubricants .You just dump it in a 5 gallon bucket or something and the sludge would sink to the bottom leaving a few gallons of clear on top .

Doesn't work that way for high detergent oil ,it's pretty much just so much fuel in general speak because it's not good for much of anything else .

I might add though that old hydraulic oil makes a pretty good rust inhibiter for drill presses , lathes etc that sit in unheated buildings .You have to daub in on though before they rust .Doesn't do a lot of good after the fact . Kinda like bolting the barn door after the horse got loose .

tstex · « **Reply #13 on:** January 10, 2010, 10:15:23 am »

Windthrown,

You make some good points, but I also believe one needs to incorporate some general common sense and safety. I for one, use brand-new, to spec products, in all my machines...IMHO, only way to go, but to each their own.

As far as handling cancer-causing agents [and i am sorry for your father], I use non-permeable gloves, full clothing and work in vented open areas with a slight breeze. I hope the hydraulic fluids do everything you say to those termites...there are about 2 billion of them around here and knocking out a couple of their colonies seems okay to me. I don't really think I kill them, but just make them do a lot of work for nothing..."*DanG, this wood tastes like shxt, guess were gonna have to tunnel back another 30 ft"

Also, I would be remiss if I did not state that I got a good laugh on your hillbillies stuff...that was one ugly dude in Deliverance...

Be safe,
tstex

stonebroke · « **Reply #14 on:** January 10, 2010, 11:16:20 am »

I heard that some firewood processors use hyd. oil from they tank as bar oil. It makes a certain amount of sense as you would be puting new hyd. oil in on a regular basis.

Stonebroke

Reddog · « **Reply #15 on:** January 10, 2010, 11:23:48 am »

Quote from: stonebroke on January 10, 2010, 11:16:20 am

I heard that some firewood processors use hyd. oil from they tank as bar oil.

Yes, but most of the processors turn the chain at half the speed or less than a chain saw.

Rocky_J · « **Reply #16 on:** January 10, 2010, 12:10:09 pm »

Hydraulic insulated stick saws used by line clearance bucket truck operators also use hydraulic oil for bar lube. Oil is oil, it's no big deal. The bar lube we use has tack agents to help keep it from flying off the bar too quickly but other than that it's just cheap oil. It only has to last about 1-2 trips around the bar anyway.

I agree that used motor oil is nasty and not a good option. Mostly because it's just dirty, the grit will wear the oil pump and the suspended particles can be toxic.

welderskelter · « **Reply #17 on:** January 10, 2010, 07:07:24 pm »

How do you figure used oil is dirty? Been running around in those high powered vehicles that seem not to throw a rod because it is running all that dirt through them bearings. Makes me want to go dump all that dirty oil out of my vehicle engines and run with out any.

Cant say that the black in the oil hurts bearings any. Had a boss once that didnt change oil, just filters. Them combines made 12 years of harvest. Engine still running good. Once in a while I dump in some gas and wash it good and dump it out. Why make them arabs any more money.

Al_Smith · « **Reply #18 on:** January 10, 2010, 07:20:59 pm »

Hmm ,well it is a free country and as such a person can run motor oil that looks like creosote if they choose to I suppose .I choose not to myself .

However just for anyones general information after the oil gets enough contamination in it the stuff will pyrolite .In other words basically downgrade to petrolium coke which resembles charcoal .This stuff is as abrasive as fine sand .

sawguy21 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 10, 2010, 09:45:18 pm »

I have always used bar oil in my saws but have used varsol and atf as parts and hand cleaner. Horrors

GASoline71 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 10, 2010, 10:11:18 pm »

LMAO... if you wanna use that crap... go ahead. Used oil has unburned gasoline in it from ring blowby. Gasoline is a solvent. It will lead to pump failure sooner or later. Some get lucky, and have no problems. It will help contribute to your bars runnin' hotter and wear them out earlier too. Plus it is thinner and slings everywhere... black smelly nasty stuff.

It stains saws and clothing...

I have used clean 30wt before in a pinch and it worked fine. I also had to use some waste oil from a Cat one time... I used it for a full day of cuttin'. The saw I was usin' was stained from that one use, until the day I sold it...

Just all around bad idear... use bar oil. It's desihgned for a specific purpose... don't matter if it's a $3.99 jug from Walmart or a $20.00 jug from your dealer... it's 1,000 times better than used cranckcase oil.

Gary

Gary_C · « **Reply #21 on:** January 10, 2010, 11:16:42 pm »

Quote from: Ed on January 09, 2010, 11:30:39 pm

Where's Gary???

Ed

Were you looking for me or the other Gary?

I've been busy looking for a haz mat suit to change my oil and refill my hydraulic systems. Oh and looking for those pyrolite rocks in my crankcase.

But seriously there is nothing in used hydraulic or engine oil that will harm the internal workings of a chainsaw. That is unless you drain your oil in dirty drain pans. Even black engine oil is far from abrasive or other ways harmful. It may not do the job very well because of a lack of tackifiers, but it will not harm your chainsaw.

Now as far as using it as a bar oil, no way would I use it and mainly because of what the other Gary said. It will make a mess of everything around and probably is not good for the environment.

In case you did not know, bar oil is the bottom of the barrel from the oil blending plants. It is made up from leftovers and cleanup of equipment from batches of engine oils, hydraulic oils, turbine oils, and air compressor oils, When someone orders a batch of bar oil they ask how much tackifier do you want in it, do you want winter or summer weight, and what color do you want it. Then they bring out these totes of leftovers, dump them into a blender, add enough new feed stock to fill out the batch, and presto, Bar Oil comes out. Can contain additives for just about any oil and probably does. Just comes without the soot from those diesel engines.

Pay any price you want, buy any brand you want, but use the bar oil, not the messy stuff.

tstex · « **Reply #22 on:** January 11, 2010, 09:36:00 am »

Pay any price you want, buy any brand you want, but use the bar oil, not the messy stuff.

[/quote]

Gary,

Have any of you guys ever made a call that Stihl bar oil vs "walmart equivalent" prevents a chain-saw from having any major problems? It is hard to me to see why, unless there is some special kind of ingredient or the "w-mart" like brand is pure crap.

Thx,
tstex

OneWithWood · « **Reply #23 on:** January 11, 2010, 10:15:24 am »

I used to use recycled and filtered engine oil in my chainsaws. Got real tired of burned bars and gave up that habit.

The tackifiers are added for a reason and they do make a difference in bar wear and heat build up.

Al_Smith · « **Reply #24 on:** January 11, 2010, 05:11:10 pm »

You can get as many opinions on what brand of bar oil is best just like mix oil and it could go on for weeks-----and has .

Probabley all are about the same providing it has some tacking agent .Stihl,being Stihl would say they have the best but that's up to the end user to decide .

Plain old 30WT motor works if you can pump enough of it on the bar which is nearly impossible on a modern saw .Aha though the old Macs will do it .

Rocky_J · « **Reply #25 on:** January 11, 2010, 06:17:40 pm »

Quote from: tstex on January 11, 2010, 09:36:00 am

Have any of you guys ever made a call that Stihl bar oil vs "walmart equivalent" prevents a chain-saw from having any major problems? It is hard to me to see why, unless there is some special kind of ingredient or the "w-mart" like brand is pure crap.

Thx,
tstex

I run a stable of pro saws, most of which have been engine ported for increased performance. I use these saws to their maximum capacity and expect maximum performance from them on the job with no excuses for anything less than top performance. And I run the cheapest bar lube I can find in all of my pro saws. Currently that is the Poulan bar oil that I buy from Wal Mart.

Wal Mart also has another brand called Super Tech (you'll find it over in the automotive oil area) and it is a lot thinner. Would work fine as a winter weight oil for you guys up in the cold.

tstex · « **Reply #26 on:** January 11, 2010, 07:06:21 pm »

Rocky_J,

Perfect, just what I hoping to read...thank you, tstex

ErikC · « **Reply #27 on:** January 11, 2010, 08:15:20 pm »

I use the cheap stuff on my saws, and they work pretty hard with bars on the longer side, but I have had no trouble. I use poulan or tractor supply brand, the two cheapest I have found. I have used old oil in a pinch but don't care for the mess or the smell. That bar oil isn't much in the way of operating cost for the advantages.

taw6243 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 11, 2010, 09:46:42 pm »

woodland pro from Baileys is $4.98 a gallon, and before Christmas since I bought so much with a friend of mine the shipping from California to Michigan was free delivered right to my front door.

bill m · « **Reply #29 on:** January 11, 2010, 09:56:28 pm »

Quote from: taw6243 on January 11, 2010, 09:46:42 pm

woodland pro from Baileys is $4.98 a gallon, and before Christmas since I bought so much with a friend of mine the shipping from California to Michigan was free delivered right to my front door.

How much did you have to buy to get free shipping? I am getting ready to order more oil from my local supplier but if Baileys is cheaper I might order from them. I normally get about 15 cases (90 gal. ) at a time.

Log Hogger · « **Reply #30 on:** January 11, 2010, 11:12:53 pm »

Used motor oil is good for slicking back your hair, too. It's the same stuff as that high falutin' stylin' gel, except without the fragrance. The old timers in these parts slather it all over themselves at the first sign of the flu, it works too, they never get sick or nothin'!

Al_Smith · « **Reply #31 on:** January 12, 2010, 05:59:02 am »

It could also be the fact some of those old timers might be a little sparse regarding top foliage also , like in bald as a cue ball .

If that be the case good old black oil could work as a sun screen in addition to preventing the old noggin from rusting in wet weather .

sd locke · « **Reply #32 on:** January 12, 2010, 08:35:35 am »

is bar and chain oil really cheap oil with just tack agents in it ? my cousin when he was 13 or so his dad bought him a new 4 wheeler we rode the pith out of it and i can remember us using bar and chain oil for motor oil all the time that is all we had we were just 13 so we didnt no anybetter i guess that 4 wheeler ran for 12 years . now that he thinks about it and so do i hit is just funny u now kids got to play not think .

Al_Smith · « **Reply #33 on:** January 12, 2010, 04:12:41 pm »

I don't know if it's really just bottom of the barrel stuff or not .Everybody says it is

?

Who knows other than maybe a chemical engineer working in the petro buisness ?

What I do know is you can put tacking agent in anything .Fact is before modern auto engines got to such tight tollerences the "break in " oil had tack added to it right from the factory which in essence is just some form of STP .

I imagine and am just speculating that bar oil is oil with basically no additives such as detergents and high temp anti friction additives etc. but I really don't know . If that is the case I wouldn't think it would make for a good engine oil but obviously works fine on a chainsaw bar ..

Reddog · « **Reply #34 on:** January 12, 2010, 05:26:57 pm »

Well if stihl bar oil is bottom of the barrel, then so is waylube.
When I talked to both the Mobil oil rep and my stihl dealer both said good bar oil was just waylube. Seeing as I have used numerous barrels of waylube over the years in the shop makes since, looks and acts the same.
When I priced waylube it was just as easy and cheap too buy bar oil by the case from the dealer.
ISO 220 is the summer weight and ISO 68 is the winter weight.

Al_Smith · « **Reply #35 on:** January 12, 2010, 06:00:31 pm »

Mobil would be "Vactra " I assume .

Actually until this mention of it I never gave it a thought about way oil being the same . It is indeed because way oil has plenty of tack to it .Trust me I've wiped gallons of it off my hands . Crawled though gallons of it too from leaking broachs on auto engine assembley lines .Yuck .

JohnG28 · « **Reply #36 on:** January 13, 2010, 11:10:51 am »

It seems to me, with all the money spent on saws, that buying bar oil would be a negligable cost at now ruining these saws. Yeah, over time it adds up, but Id rather pay that cost and not risk an expensive and avoidable repair...JMO

timber tramp · « **Reply #37 on:** January 13, 2010, 12:01:14 pm »

JohnG28 I agree, I don't think that the price of bar oil is a signifigant cost. (13.49/ gal. at my local stihl dealer.) However I do turn the reciepts in to the bean counter every month.

I would'nt run used motor oil though, for the same reason I would'nt siphon gas from cars at a junk yard and run that in my saws. If you're dependant on a piece of equipment to make a living with, why take any unnecessary chances with it.

TT

ely · « **Reply #38 on:** January 13, 2010, 03:29:04 pm »

i used to run the cheapest bar oil i could find in my 1972 toyota corona deluxe. since it pumped alot out the side of the engine i didnt see any reason to buy the good stuff.

i drove it like that for two years , driving 100 miles a day, 7 days aweek most times. i used the empty jug as a catch container where it blew out the pcv on the engine. just poured it back thru.

life was simplier then, to be 19 again and know it all.

ely · « **Reply #39 on:** January 13, 2010, 03:32:05 pm »

also had an uncle who used the used oil from engines in his chain saw as bar lube. he did use up alot of bars imo. he even used it in the gas as oil mix sometimes

so.... alot of the times his bar outlasted his saws. i was only 12 but i can still hear him when i tried to tell him things.... "shut up kid"

GASoline71 · « **Reply #40 on:** January 14, 2010, 10:43:02 am »

Quote from: JohnG28 on January 13, 2010, 11:10:51 am

It seems to me, with all the money spent on saws, that buying bar oil would be a negligable cost at now ruining these saws. Yeah, over time it adds up, but Id rather pay that cost and not risk an expensive and avoidable repair...JMO

Good post... I agree 100%...

Gary

chucker · « **Reply #41 on:** January 14, 2010, 11:28:10 am »

heck! theres so much gas/oil mixed when i change oil in the truck i can just fill the saws gas tank and start cuttin....... enough over spray to lube the bar and chain all in one swift move?

?

now thats save ing hey!!!

GASoline71 · « **Reply #42 on:** January 14, 2010, 02:19:10 pm »

... I had a 1979 GMC 3/4 ton with 0vr 350,000 miles on it... I used to add a quart of oil every week, and changed the filter every 3,000 miles or so. It changed it's own oil...

Gary

RandyMac · « **Reply #43 on:** January 14, 2010, 06:02:56 pm »

Yer funny nGary.
I had a 1964 Chevy with a 292 six, it had a cracked block, it freely exchanged water and oil both ways, what a stink it had, not to mention the smoke.
I mix my own bar oil, STP keeps the fling off to a minimum, and seems to keep the sap from sticking.

timberjack240 · « **Reply #44 on:** January 14, 2010, 11:31:54 pm »

we have run used motor oil it waterproofs your shoes they get all black

i noticed it wore the bars out faster but didnt have any problems other than that but we strained it first

des170stihl · « **Reply #45 on:** January 19, 2010, 10:57:33 pm »

I have allways used Bar and Chain oil. If someone wants to sell me a saw and I see they have put junk oil in it. I tell them it,s not worth as much now because I,ll have to replace the filter and the pump and most likely a new bar. Most dealers around here tell people the same thing when they want to trade in their saws.

barbender · « **Reply #46 on:** January 20, 2010, 09:40:23 pm »

It's black and messy, otherwise I don't see the harm in using it. I've seen guys mix it 50/50 with bar oil to thicken it up, don't need to thicken it around here in the winter. Personally, I just use regular bar oil, the cheapest stuff I can find. Sometimes, I'll find a jug of "mystery" oil lying around the garagewith the label wore off. That is immediately recruited for bar oil duty. If used oil wasn't so messy I would happily run it for bar lube, even if I had to replace a pump or filter once in a while.

boobap · « **Reply #47 on:** January 22, 2010, 01:59:54 pm »

hello all, i am a newb and this is my first post. i am currently in afghanistan fighting this "war on terror". well, let me tell you this is a "terror-ble" mess we are in...anyways. that being said i love chainsaws and will miss mine dearly until this Novemeber when i get back. it all started when i got my first stihl 020av two years ago. i picked it up off of craigslist for $20 and it didn't run...come to find out that the only problem was the on/off switch was grounding out...since then i have purchased 10 used saws to fix and "turn around" a few of them. i now have to by them secretly because my wife is sick of me spending money on them...

anyways my take on the subject of bar oil is:

a good cheap non-detergent 30wt for the summer, and for the winter, the same but add some dextron ATF to thin it (about 50/50) plus ATF is a really good cleaner!! the inside of my clutch covers are so clean in the winters. i would never use used engine oil because of all the "metalics" and acids that build up after 3000+ miles of hard use. that being said, used motor oil is better than NO oil, but just be prepared and you shouldn't run out.

beenthere · « **Reply #48 on:** January 22, 2010, 03:55:24 pm »

Welcome to the forum.
Many thanks for you service and efforts in Afghanistan. You are in our prayers, and hope you and your fellow comrades stay safe and get the job done.

We too look forward to you returning safely home.

Hope you get home so you can get back to sawing.

1GUNRUNNER · « **Reply #49 on:** January 27, 2010, 11:19:19 am »

Quote from: windthrown on January 10, 2010, 03:24:15 am

Used motor oil will wear your oil chainsaw pump gearing and your bars and chains. Setteling and filtering it will not (repeat, not) get rid of all the fine particles in there, and it is rather abrasive. It is also a lot more toxic than fresh oil; heavy metals and blowby hydrocarbons remain in that stuff. And if you think that oils like hydrolic fluid, tranny and diff fluid are good for running in your chainsaws, think again. You can absorb hydrolic fluids through your skin in about 20 minutes, and you can also breathe it in throught your lungs. It winds up in your fatty tissues, and raises havoc with enzyme activity, screws up your nervous system, can permanently affect your nerves and cause paralysis and impaired muscle function, can cause tremors, vomiting and dirrahea. Good stuff, eh?

I have bought saws with used motor oil in the oil tanks, and I dump it into the motor oil recycle tank and I flush out the tank with paint thinner, and dump that one firewood that I am going to burn. Then I use fresh bar oil, made for chainsaws, like anyone that is sane would do. That also has tackifiers in it to make the oil stick to your bar, which used motor and hydrolic oils will not have. You hillbillies wanna save money and ruin your saws and spray heavy metals and hydrolic fluid around where you work? Well, good luck with that. My father used to do that kind of stuff, and he died of cancer at a fairly young age.

I swear, I can hear the banjo music playing around here...

Get real people. Do not do this crap to yourselves!

You would think an oil 'expert' would know how to spell hydraulic.

JohnG28 · « **Reply #50 on:** January 27, 2010, 01:04:42 pm »

Maybe, or he was busy making a point and overlooked a minor spelling error in light of the bigger picture that was being conveyed

JohnG28 · « **Reply #51 on:** January 27, 2010, 01:23:55 pm »

Oh ya, and hydraulics dont necessarily mean strictly oil, hydraulics deal with the dynamics of all fluids, which happens to include oil...therefore, one could be an expert on oil without actually having any real knowledge of hydraulics as a science

barbender · « **Reply #52 on:** January 30, 2010, 06:41:48 am »

So, are we suggesting that hydrualic oil is more toxic than bar oil? Seems a little over the top to me.

Al_Smith · « **Reply #53 on:** January 30, 2010, 07:13:26 am »

Now come on now you folks are getting carried away with this hydraulics stuff .

I suppose if you wanted to get real techincal about it you could use water under pressure and term it hydraulics not to mention high temp glycal based fluids used for die cast machines but that would be bending the bar a tad bit .

Then again neither water or glycal would make a very good bar lube .Nor for that fact would old gritty motor oil so here we are right back to square one again .Came full circle in a manner of speaking .

JohnG28 · « **Reply #54 on:** January 30, 2010, 11:50:09 am »

I agree Al, didnt intend to sway from topic, just thought that windthrown had a pretty good point, and seemed to be overlooked, guess I got carried away...just use bar oil people, thats my take and what I do, but to each his own i guess

Al_Smith · « **Reply #55 on:** January 30, 2010, 12:56:27 pm »

Oh I wouldn't worry too much about going slightly askew on the subject matter .It happens all the time . I've even been accused of doing that a time or three myself .

I suppose no mention of bar lube could be complete without mentioning that water based stuff they are using in Europian countries .Evidently with "greenies " in mind .

From what I gather it's nothng but jellied water ,kind of like they use to hydrafracture oil wells or more commonly called KY jelly without any further ado on that practicular item or its' usage .

ihookem · « **Reply #56 on:** January 30, 2010, 04:32:06 pm »

I mix bar oil and hydraulic oil together and thought it was a good idea. It seems to work fine. I will consider though what happened to Windthrown's dad though.. What else do you do with hydraulic oil? Waste oil goes to the mechanic to heat his shop.

maple flats · « **Reply #57 on:** January 30, 2010, 05:04:19 pm »

For several years I have only used cheaper bar oil, never tried anything else and I get good bar life. Lately I have use TSC bar oil but have often bought a few cases of oil from any of a number of vendors at the New York State Woodsmans show each August. Maybe I don't pay close enough attention but they have all seemed the same and they work good. I'll continue to use bar oil. I have never run out because I keep several gal if not cases ahead.

windthrown · « **Reply #58 on:** January 30, 2010, 10:22:58 pm »

Quote from: barbender on January 30, 2010, 06:41:48 am

So, are we suggesting that hydrualic oil is more toxic than bar oil? Seems a little over the top to me.

I am not suggesting that all hydraulic oils are more toxic than bar oil. Or that either are toxic in all cases (as that is not the case). However, I am stating flat out that many typical types of hydraulic oils are indeed far more toxic than typical bar oil. If you are using peanut or canola oil for either one, then neither is toxic. For this reason canola oil is becoming far more popular as a base for making bar oil. As are biodegradable bar oils made available at chainsaw shops and companies (like Stihl).

My point here is that if you are comparing say, typical tractor or fork lift hydraulic oil to typical bar oil, there can be a big difference, and yes indeed, in many cases hydraulic oil will be far more toxic than bar oil. The degree to what amount of exposure to hydraulic oils are considered 'safe' is not well known. However, there have been deaths reported from exposure to hydraulic oils (from ingesting, skin exposure and fume and mist exposure). There have also been cases where workers exposed to hydraulic fluids on their skin lost motor function in their hands. Several compounds used in hydraulic oils are known to be toxic. When I replace the hydraulic oils in my Kubota, I have to take the old hydraulic oil to the toxic waste site. They do not take it at the regular dumps here that take used motor oil.

The main issue with many types of hydraulic oil is that they are made from a wide variety of compounds. Of the main types of hydraulic oil bases, three are common. Those being: mineral oil, polyalphaolefin, and organophosphate ester. Bar oil is mainly made of mineral oils, a result of refining crude oil. Mineral oil is not considered to be that toxic, and skin and eye exposure (or even drinking the stuff) is not that hazardous. Long exposure to mineral oils should be avoided though (and I would not drink the stuff). Polyalphaolefin is not considered to be very toxic to mamals. However, the organic phospates are a problem. Triaryl phosphates, including tricresyl phosphate (TCP) and butylated triphenyl phosphates (BTP), are used in the commercial manufacture of hydraulic fluids and oils. Recent studies show that these compounds are endocrine and reproductive toxicants. Meaning that they affect your glands and your reproductive system in a very negative way.

Now, if you want to spray that stuff around on yourself and your property and into the envirnment just to save a few bucks, well then, I wish you luck. Why you would want to expose yourself and your family to that stuff is beyond me. My father loved exposing himself to a lot of that stuff, and he died of liver cancer at a rather young age. He used to taste the transmission fluid in his fleet of cars and trucks all the time to see if it had gone off or not. I told him he was crazy to do that, but he persisted anyway.

barbender · « **Reply #59 on:** January 30, 2010, 10:59:04 pm »

Windthrown, I am sorry about your Dad. I hope my comment wasn't taken as making light of your loss. I can also see you have a lot more knowledge about this stuff than I do, and I agree with you that we need to be careful about the things we come into contact with. Please understand, I come from a family where grandad used to take his used motor oil out behind the garage and dump it on the ground

I don't think too much of that, but I guess if I'm using it for bar oil I'm basically doing the same thing, except for spreading it around a little.

tstex · « **Reply #60 on:** January 31, 2010, 10:03:23 pm »

"Windthrown, I am sorry about your Dad."

I will second that...i know the drill: lost my dad to colon cancer, mom to ovarian cancer...it really sucks.

Whenever I use anything with 6-chain carbons or more, as well as cutting CCA and like lumber, I take the necessary precautions. I do believe the more you are around and handle materials like this, it is empirical your odds not too your advantage. I think you summed it up Windthrown when you stated your father "taste-tested" those chemicals...that would be tough for anyone to beat.

For me, I do use hudraulic fluids to my advantage, which is a preventative to keeping termites from engulfing the base-boards on all my sheds....the old post-WWII farmer used to use chlordane to protect his sheds, but we know what the EW's did to stop this...however, I do use brand-new fluids in all my combustion-based machines and will continue to do so.

Hope you have a good & safe week.
tstex

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