Longleaf Pine

[Magicman]

In March '09 I planted about 75 Longleaf pine plugs.  Now that the grass is dead, I can see that I got a good survival rate.  They are still in the "grass stage", except for one little tree that I found trying to sprout.  It looked like a deer or something had chomped on it's needles.

I know that they have to "set roots" the first year.  Reckon they will send up a shoot this year?
I can see them, now that the grass is dead

 


Here's one sending up a bud.  Taken January 6, 2010.

[Tom]

They can sit in that stage for 3-5 years.   I get Long Leaf volunteering on the sides of my driveway and some will be a couple of years before they "Rocket" and some will be a longer.  That white candle/growth bud is the most typical thing of Long Leaf.  You can spot a Long Leaf by that from great distances.

There is a bud disease that kills most all of mine within 10 years.   It might be brown Spot but I'm  not sure.  I read of a candle blight one time and can't find it.  I hope you don't realize this.  It's disheartening, after so many years, to find that the candle, and then the needles die, leaving you with a long, slim stick of wood with, sometimes, a tuft at the top.

Long Leaf needs fire. That would solve some of our illness problems.  Unfortunately the society is against burning, so pests and diseases alike ravage the trees.  Slash gets out of the ground faster and can survive these early illnesses, but long leaf stays next to the ground for too long.  Study fire when your long leaf gets up some. It sterilizes the field of many of the micro-organizms/disease and kills ticks and chiggers tool

be sure to take plenty of pictures of your trees.  There aren't many people growing Long Leaf and a history of your stand will be important to many in the future.

[ellmoe]

  A quick fire is also supposed to help "release" the longleaf seedling from the grass stage.

Mark

[WDH]

Exactly.  Longleaf adapted to and even requires fire to thrive.

[fishpharmer]

Nice pictures MM.  I recall hearing somewhere, that longleaf withstood the hurricane force winds of Katrina much better than any other species of SYP.   Maybe that's why I read it was used for wooden ship's masts back in the early days.  Sure makes nice lumber

How many years until sawlog harvest for Longleaf?

[VT_Forestry]

Here in VA, the DOF has been doing research for years in an attempt to keep the native Virginia longleaf pine.  The majority that is around is from NC or some other seed source.  I went and looked at a few of the plantations that they had, and they were pretty impressive.  The longleaf was significantly outgrowing loblolly on certain sites, mainly ones that were considered "poor" quality in regards to loblolly.  Longleaf needs a nice deep sandy soil, which from my understanding usually results in poor nutrient retention.  The 10-year old loblolly planted on these sites looked like scrub brush when compared to the same age longleaf planted a compartment over.  At 10-years old the longleaf looked very close to a commercial thinning size.   

[Magicman]

  A quick fire is also supposed to help "release" the longleaf seedling from the grass stage.   Mark 

Exactly.  Longleaf adapted to and even requires fire to thrive. 

Are you saying that I need to burn this grass?

[WDH]

Yes.  However, I am no resource on burning young longleaf pine.  Your state department of Forestry should be able to give you the proper timing and guidelines for a successful burn.  It may be too early to burn the grass this winter, but maybe not, so getting the advice from the state foresters should clear that up. 

Whatever you determine, lets us know, and we will all learn a little in this process!

[Texas Ranger]

Like Danny said, talk to your local agency, or a consultant that knows a little about longleaf, control burns can be dicey, leave it to the pros.

[DanG]

Just going by my own observations over the last few years, I think site conditions have a lot to do with it.  Hardly anyone is planting any pine other than longleaf in this neck of the woods, so I've had a chance to see a bunch of them.  I've not seen anyone burning them intentionally at that young age, and most of them seem to be doing quite well.  My next door neighbor has a nice 40 acre stand that is several years old now, and he hasn't burned them yet.  They look to be 20-25 feet tall now.  I'll check with him about the exact age, and get a few pics.  Anyway, his is an excellent site, IMHO, smack in the middle of prime longleaf country.  The site is an old row-crop field and has no hardwood stands nearby, so weeds and grasses are the only competition the pines have.

Now this is just pure speculation from my basically ignorant perspective, but do y'all think maybe fire is more valuable to longleaf in the lower, wetter sites?  The upland trees around here seem to be thriving whether they get burned or not.

I'm wondering if the problems with Tom's little voluteers might be related to the wet conditions there.  He does live in a swamp, after all.  He was smart to plant loblollies in his plantation, as they seem to sprout with flippers on their roots.

[WDH]

Now this is just pure speculation from my basically ignorant perspective, but do y'all think maybe fire is more valuable to longleaf in the lower, wetter sites? 

In the wet savanna sites, fire is the most critical element.  I have a project to restore a site in St. Tammany parish, LA to the original longleaf wet pine savanna, and fire is the main management weapon.  However, since I am inexperienced with longleaf, I am not sure the timing on the first burn.  It will be much earlier than you might think though, especially when compared to loblolly and slash.

[Magicman]

Wet will not come into play in my situation.  My granddad loved Longleaf pines, so I set these out on his home's house site.  Sorta like a memorial to him.  It's 295' elevation, and the second highest point on the place.  My cabin is at 300'.

In this instance, I could take a lawnmower and remove the bulk of the grass, only leaving a tuff around each set.  It's planted on 10X12 spacing.

The one thing that I did not do was subsoil.  I'll move some pictures and show the site.

[DanG]

Magic, that sounds remarkably similar to my neighbor's site...just about the same elevation.  I'm not sure of your latitude, though.

[Tom]

300 FT. !?!?!?!
I didn't know you lived in the mountains.  

Nature has a way of making up for our insecurities.  Fire is for getting rid of disease as well as trimming back nutrient robbing grass and shrubs.  But when you get miles away from a site of trees, the best you can do is offer a suggestion or opinion.  That is why you need the advise of an on-site forester who is familiar with the program in your area.  

If the seedlings were naturally seeded and seed was no object, you could "play" around some.  But if you dug each hole and plopped a nursery plant in it, that's a lot of work and expence and you need to make sure that what you do doesn't unravel the thread. 

[RynSmith]

I didn't look around their site too much, but you might find some good information at talltimbers.org. 

[Magicman]

I found some pictures.  The first is my Grandparents' home that had been vacant since 1959.  I got tired of paying taxes on it, plus it was ugly.  I had already stripped the usable lumber from it.
 


My entrance with the old house still standing.....
 


Gone
 


My Son on the toy filling up the old cistern
 


As my entrance looks today.  The Longleafs are planted where the house was.....

[Texas Ranger]

Shoot, I kinda like those old houses.  But, longleaf in the grass stage has (around here) a leaf "blight" for lack of a better word, and the fire trims off the damaged needles, and apparently shocks it out of the grass stage.  I believe you need to pretty much not burn real hot, slow cool fire through it to trim the grass and the fungus infected needles.

I used to manage a few long leaf stands, times changed, and now I only look at one sonderagger stand.  Spelling bad on that, but, it is a lob/longleaf natural cross.

[woodtroll]

I don't know much about longleaf but the grass fuel component looks short, easy to burn put a line around it with your son's toy. Should not be to bad. (my 4 yearold son said to add the dancing guy.)

[ellmoe]

Are you saying that I need to burn this grass?

   I don't believe you "need" to burn for the LL to release, but it supposed to stimulate the seedlings. Early in my career I was on a 41,000 acre tract with almost all longleaf and fire was purposely kept out. The LL grew fine, but the chiggers were awful! For some reason the resident forester thought he should protect the seedlings from fire after an outstanding seed crop. So, no burning. Personally, I think he grew up in a slash pine plantation.

Mark

[Ron Scott]

Controlled Burns to Improve Wildlife Habitat, Reduce Wildfire

The Florida Times-Union reported that natural resources officials plan to begin a series of controlled burns intended to improve wildlife habitat and reduce wildfire fuel on state lands in Southeast Georgia. The aim of the burns, they say, is to establish Longleaf pine and wiregrass and to remove dead fuel.

For more information, visit the Florida Times-Union website.

The E-Forester