hand-sharpening w/ file & guide

[downeast]

Filing is a rite of passage for being a wood cutter.Its surprising how many people don't know how to take the chain off the bar,they take the whole saw to be sharpened.Should be manditory to use a bucksaw for a year then you get a power saw and you'd be DanG sure to maintain it.Frank C.

The chain comes off the bar    
What's a "bucksaw"   

[Rocky_J]

But it you take the saw apart to get the chain off the bar, won't that void the warranty?   

[WildDog]

I tried leaning over from the back of the saw as AL-Smith said, but its to hard on my back so I now put the file in the bech vise and holding the saw in both hands I just move the saw back and forth, its giving my forearms a workout but saves the back.

[tstex]

Gent's,

I am in the ranch house in the country with a very, very nice fire in the w-burning stove...I am burning some very hard aged-oak cut with my newly hand-sharpened saw...It Cut Great 

When I went to town, I took the boxes my chains came in, and this is how I ensure I am buying the right files...got 4 for the 029;  4 for the 023.

When I made my first cut, the chips were as big as the buck-teeth on this kid I knew in the 4th grade [he was a good kid, just had big front teeth ].

Again, thank you for all your help and assistance...it was a good day and I feel confident my sharpening skills will soon be keen, thanks to you all...

Be safe,
tstex

[Rocky_J]

Good deal. 
Remember, consistent repetition is key. Use the same stroke, the same pressure and the same number of swipes on each tooth.

[wageslave]

I am no expert  and used to think I was good at it freehand until  I started using a chainsaw more than a couple hours once in a great while. I went out and bought one of those clamp on file holders after that. That worked great till I needed to replace the chain. When I put the new chain on I noticed I wasn't getting as good of of a cut. Same exact chain and manufacturer. I sharpemed it twice the same way I did the old one and I still wasn't getting much better of a cut. I then tried to file down the the rakers, I believe thats what they are called, and wasn't getting anywhere. I finally took a die grinder to the top of the rakers , put a stait edge over four in a row, and measured the gap between the the strait edge and the top of the raker. Once I ground them down to the maximum gap spec. The chain cut great. Now I always check this gap once sharpening stops improving my cut. Note: after grinding the rakers I still made sure to round them like they were with the file after. And try to keep them all the same,other wise you get more vibration from the different depths of the cutters.

[gemniii]

Glad to read you were succesfull

<snip>
Here is what I am taking from this post:

* Use guide at this point to get the top angle, use full strokes [only one way from left to right] and perform the same number of strokes per link
* Keep file clean from oil, grease, dirt, i-filings and other debris
* Keep the file flat to the top and forget the 10degree angle
* Sharpen before every use and do not wait until the chips turn to dust
* Keep the bar level secure while using file
* File rakers to spec if/when required
* Take chain to shop every 3-4 uses to resurface/level all the links - toss old chains
* Be more mindfull of not dipping chain into the dirt
* Post here to get good feedback from great guys.

Thanks again and be safe,
tstex

I'm not certain what you mean about "Take chain to shop every 3-4 uses". 
I've been told they charge up to $10 a chain around here for sharpening.
/edit - On a 55 link chain that's almost $0.20/link  - I get mine done mail order from Baileys at $0.19/link - and I don't even send the chain in
As soon as my new chains start getting dull I'm trying to set a pattern.  I've presently got three saws with 4 variations of chain.
The first time I use my Christmas present  - A Grandberg File-n-joint per mfg settings
If it makes good chips, the second and third time file by hand, checking the rakers every other time,
Fourth time Grandberg
Repeat.

I've read many threads of people who file solely by hand, and good for them, but the Fil-n-Joint brings it back with some accuracy.

Also on my milling chain when I went to set the rakers on the 2nd and 4th sharpening per spec (Woodland Pro 30RP - 0.022") I didn't have to give more than one or two strokes and the chain cut like it was going thru concrete and still making fine sawdust.  I then tried a "progressive filing" (see instructions for Carlton Fil-o-plate at Baileys) dropped them down now to about .028 (took about 15 strokes per raker) and it's back to cutting almost by itself with chips.

Taking the chain to the shop to me is a no-go, with the time consumed it's not worth it to me to have a 92 link chain MAYBE sharpened when I can buy one from Baileys for under $20  (hope they bring back free shipping).

As far as sharpening after every use, depends on how much it was used, how fine the chips are compared to a new chain.  But I prefer to sharpen after every "significant" use.

/edit - Also when I do it freehand I hold the file such that it kind of "lifts up" against the cutter, not bear down into the gullet.

[miking]

I think that 10% lift does improve the cut. After flat filing for years and then switching to try it out I really think the chain cuts better with it.

[Al_Smith]

I tried leaning over from the back of the saw as AL-Smith said, but its to hard on my back so I now put the file in the bech vise and holding the saw in both hands I just move the saw back and forth, its giving my forearms a workout but saves the back.

Right .

There is a secret to it .In the bush just cut maybe half a bar width into a log,round whatever and use the cut as kind of a stump vice for want of another term .Get the saw elevated enough it doesn't hurt your back .

That "over the top " is just one method of many .It works better for me because I can see the tooth angle better .

The first person I ever saw do that way was a tree trimmer that just stuck the saw out the window on a bucket truck and filed away .He got it sharp as a razor I'll give him that .

[bandmiller2]

A friend of mine in the tree service gets real close to the saw you'd swear he was mounting it but it comes out vicious sharp.Frank C.

[tstex]

Gemnii wrote"

"I'm not certain what you mean about "Take chain to shop every 3-4 uses". 
I've been told they charge up to $10 a chain around here for sharpening."

There is a Stilh dealership 10 miles from here where they sharpen chains.  Only two people allowed to do so:  the owner and part owner thats been there for 25 yrs.  I asked to go look at their set-up and he explained how all the angles are set, how to and how not too/etc, had a bunch of calipers too...I even brought in a chain one time and he said, "you can buy your chain from me or anyone else, your choice, but this chain is beyond sharpening"...BTW, they charge $4/chain off, $6 on...I would not pay $10/chain either and I do not see too much difference bewteen .20 & .19/link and postage?...was this a typo?


"As far as sharpening after every use, depends on how much it was used, how fine the chips are compared to a new chain.  But I prefer to sharpen after every "significant" use."

You make a good point here. I should have better qualified the duration of my chain-saw usage each frequency.  When i fire-her-up, it is usually a good long session because I can only work on the weekends and save the work up for a good work-out.  That is, until a 70MPH microburst drops a scaffolding branch on the chain-link fence and flattens it to the ground.  The diameter of the s-branch was 22-26"...nice time.


It was 12-13 here this morning [9 yesterday morning] but the woodburning stove had the farm house in the mid-high 70's...nothing burns better than aged, hard oak.  Maybe cutting this type of wood [which i have seen spark within 3-4 minutes of cutting with a brand new stihl chain and absolutely no foreign materials or debris] is what makes these chains dull so fast...this is why I needed to sharpen much more often...the oak burns long, blue flame and puts off heat like coal.   

Thank you again gentlemen for your feedback.

Be Safe,
tstex

[moonhill]

Most of my chains are filed down to a nub, some the last bit of the tooth is bent or broken.  At that point I know it is done.  It is still cutting sweet up till that point.  I often will say to myself to save that chain I may need it to do some grubbing.  I have never changed a chain out for some dirty work, I don't know why I keep the chains, they are all over the place.  I should collect them in a five gallon bucket and sell for scrap.   

I posted this a while back, I file with my bar pointing up.  I would think this could be done in a vise as well. 

Tim

[bandmiller2]

Tim,aint it the truth I've got old chains everywhere and can't bring myself to throw em,I've never used my saws for a ditch witch.Frank C.

[OneWithWood]

One of the things I learned in the cutter training classes (GOL) was that all chains need to be touched up with a hand file when new out-of-the-box or coming off the grinder.
 Once you have used a saw with a truly sharp chain you will understand and never go out in the field without a file or two or put on a chain that has been through a grinder without touching it up with a few quality strokes.

[moonhill]

I was poking around with a poker in the wood stove and found a warn out chain is the hot coals.  Must have been in the sawdust on the floor. 

When I am cutting young trees on the blueberry field I want the stub as close to the ground as possible.  One example of grubbing. 

Tim

[tstex]

Guys,

One last thing, and I am sure some of you have thought of this already.

I am determined to get this hand file sharpening down and since the Stilh guide I have doesn't allow me to use the full length of the file during strokes, I came up with a "guide board".

What i did was draw a straight/bolded line down a 3/4" piece of plywood where I can comfortably access all angles of my chainsaw and it is stabilized.  I then took the guide and lined up the proper angle w/ the bolded line and drew a 30 degree angle about every inch for sharpening one side of the chain; then I did this the other way to get the angle back to sharpen the other chain...I simply put the bar on the straight bolded/line with a movable block on the end to support the end of the bar.  Now the bar/chain is stable w/ the proper angle that shows me how I need to run the file...Then I go back the other way and have the lines below to get the angle on the other teeth...really works well.  When i do this enough, I feel I will intuitively get the angles down...does this make sense?

On some of my 029 chains, the angles are on the teeth, but not on my 023 or my extension....anyway, thought if you were going to do some "file sharpening in the shop", the template would help those that are not a pro at this yet.

Be safe,
tstex

[ickirby]

What i did was draw a straight/bolded line down a 3/4" piece of plywood where I can comfortably access all angles of my chainsaw and it is stabilized.  I then took the guide and lined up the proper angle w/ the bolded line and drew a 30 degree angle about every inch for sharpening one side of the chain; then I did this the other way to get the angle back to sharpen the other chain...I simply put the bar on the straight bolded/line with a movable block on the end to support the end of the bar.  Now the bar/chain is stable w/ the proper angle that shows me how I need to run the file...Then I go back the other way and have the lines below to get the angle on the other teeth...really works well.  When i do this enough, I feel I will intuitively get the angles down...does this make sense?

Your method sounds like it could very well work but one thing to caution you on is making sure that your block allows you to have the proper depth control of your file.  I may not quite understand your description so if I'm wrong just ignore me.

The depth of your file in the gullet of the tooth will determine your top plate cutting angle.  This angle will effect how fast your chain will cut but if you get it too sharp (narrow angle / deep file depth) then the chain will dull very quickly and damage very easily in dirty conditions.  [edit]Also I see a lot of people who think they file very well free hand that file too deeply and end up damaging the tie straps (small connector links of the chain) on their chain and incidentally I have seen a couple of these weakened tie straps break.[/edit]

I would recommend that you keep using the Stihl file guide and if you don't get used to it very soon just try a few different styles of file guide until you find one that suits your needs better.  There are at least a half dozen different styles and I'm sure you'll find one you like.  I personally use the cheapeast and most easily accessible style to me the Oregon brand.

P.S. I don't want to anyone saying I am what I file with because I may be easy but I'm not cheap.

[madhatte]

I get the best results keeping the file level with the top plate of the chain. I usually don't buy Oregon chain but even with their chain I still file it level instead of their cockamamie 10 degree angle stuff. Angling it makes the cutting edge too blunt and the tooth doesn't have enough of a hook to cut fast.

I always understood that the 10 degree thing was just for round-filing square chisel chain, and was done in order to approximate a working corner?  On semi-chisel chain, I am unaware of any manufacturer recommending any angle other than flat.  Given the idea of approximating a working corner, wouldn't it be better to file into the cutter rather than out? 

[tstex]

The block(s) I use comfortably fits right under the end of the bar/chain and prevents the entire saw from moving down as I file the chain.

Regarding the file angle, [up/down], I believe many of the folks here stated to file even/flat/straight across the top was the way to go.  Even with a guide, IMHO, it would "stihl" [ ] be a challenge to get the 10 degree angle.  However, with he guide I do see where the depth is easily managed.

Re guides, the Stihl guide i have only allows me to use the middle portion of the file, thus wasting not only the top and bottom, but also doens't allow me to make full strokes as I did with my template going freehand.  Is there a guide that allows you to use the full length of the file?

thx,
tstex

[downeast]

(shouting  )
PFERD

For hand filing ( all real men do      "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm OK....."  ) get the Pferd tool. Repeat: get it. Get it now, that's an order. It will keep the height correct, do the rakers, give you the new ( if it's a Stihl chain )chain feeling, and, save you $$$ going to the dealer for sharpening    . Just be sure to replace both files often---the round and the flat.