worn out iron

[ErikC]

 That's right Tom. Here's where the little guy fits in-Many big companies write off the depreciation schedule in 5 or 7 years, then sell that and replace it. So at that point the price to me is about 25% of new, and it's still not outdated for 8 or 10 years. When you go to sell it at that point it still fetches over half what you paid, and I have no problem making a 15,000- 20,000 piece of equipment pay for itself in a couple years so you come out fine. This is competitive equipment that you can charge going rates with, and a lot less overhead. Too old and you have to cut the rate to be fair to the customer. Smaller stuff like saws, tools etc you get what you can when you can, new if possible as far as I'm concerned. This is all part of the business even though it's not a major item, so it has to be reliable as well.
And some things like sawmills don't depreciate much at all, so you probably just as well buy a new one if you are going to use it hard. Now after all this running around and shopping a man is too tired to work, isn't he?

Half the fun is in the hunt

Whatever it's worth ,that's how I do it and it works for me.

[golden foot]

This is a very good topic for our current economic situation. Tom has got it figured out. I started with a chainsaw and bought each piece of equipment that I own for cash. One piece at a time far below appraised value. Right now is the best time to do that if you can afford it and are commited to staying in the industry for some time. You can't make it with just a skidder. You have to have enough variety of implements to do a variety of jobs. A dozer is a good one, and they are cheap right now. Buy one that you can haul behind a diesel pickup on a dually trailer for example. Even with all the best business strategy things are tough. You have to be able to weather the storm and just leave stuff parked for a while. Right now I am thinking that mid '90s vintage equipment is the way to go. Not too old, but old enough to be reasonable, to cheap in this market. Good luck everyone.

[Mark K]

When I started cutting in the late 90's I used a tractor and a log winch. You could easily make a grand or 2 a week hooking hardwood . I bought a 225 jack in 01 because I had the tractor and winch paid for and paid the skidder off in two years. Now its tough to make it, Im glad I dont have any payments. Takes a little work to keep the old skidder going and the parts are still availible. I wonder how many of these old machines will be left in twenty years.

[timberfaller390]

I wonder how many of these old machines will be left in twenty years.

In twenty or so years we will be using what is new now as "old iron". Your brand new 648 skidder will some day be outdated. You will have a hard time finding parts for it, Alot of people say they can't work on something with a computer in it but one day it will be common knowledge. Think about the guys that had to learn to work on thier "new" equipment 40 or 50 years ago. I don't think there will be alot of backyard shops doing repairs on equipment in the future but there will be a few. Regaurdless of what kind of computer runs a machine it still has to have basic mechanical principals to run like fuel, spark, compression and air. If a man understands these things it doesn't matter whether a mechanical linkage or an electric componet operates them he can diagnose and fix the problem.

[Mark K]

I think things have gone to far with computers in equipement. When I first got out of college I worked for a New holland dealer here in NY. Every year we had update schools that told us what was coming the following year. I mainly worked on big square balers and those have more computers and sensors then the tractors or cars we have now. They would upgrade the software every year to keep ahead of the competition and to keep the back yard mechanic from working on it. When the electronics on a 6 year old machine would go down you had to update the whole system. I guess what I am saying is what is going to happen in 20 years to the machines built now. Do you think they are going to keep offering updates to the computers on a 20 year old machine.

[timberfaller390]

I guess what I am saying is what is going to happen in 20 years to the machines built now. Do you think they are going to keep offering updates to the computers on a 20 year old machine.

I honestly do. Maybe not from the dealer but there will be people out there who will be able to handle that type of repair. Instead of the mechanic adjusting the carb he will be pushing buttons on a keyboard.

[240b]

The stuff which is new today will not be running in 20 years.  Right now the market is full of 3 to 5 year old equipment which has just been run into the ground. Guys can bearly pay for it, an now can't even afford to do the proper SM.  A saleman with 30 years experience told me recently how sad it was how guys had really put everything into there operations and now most of them were in a slow downward plunge. "Can't afford new can't afford to stop." He commented on how much new equipment just isn't being taken care of. 
 And wiring harnesses don't last that long forestry equipment without some major problems.

[Mark K]

240-b That is exactly what im thinking. I seen it the short time that I worked for NH. You see 30 year old tractors come in for overhauls to run another 20 and we were parting out tractors that are less than 15 years old because it costs to much to fix them because of problems that cost to much to fix them. Strip the tractor and make more off the parts then what it would sell for on the lot running.

[timberfaller390]

I am not saying that every piece of equipment made today is destined for a compotent and caring owner. I am saying that SOME of the stuff made today will still be running in twenty years and there will be guys that will be able to keep them running. We are living in a throw away society but there comes a point when you have to fix and use what you have. Some of todays machines will be able to be bought for a song in the future and tomorrows talented tinkerers will be able to get them going again. JMO I could be wrong. It has happened before... that one time    

[thecfarm]

It will be interesting to see what happens in 20 years.I'm not around the new stuff much,just at shows.But I'm around that computer stuff and sensors and all that good stuff at work.All that stuff is fine,but can and does cause problems.Lots of tech stuff and relays on new equipment.Yes,it can be fixed,replaced,but takes knowledge and testers to trouble shoot it.Money to pay someone else.I get involved with it at work.Sometimes just a little tester works,if not the laptop gets hooked up,that don't work a call to the company gets put in,that don't work,the company sends a man out,that don't work electron parts and wires gets replaced.

[GRANITEstateMP]

I think we should also remember "they don't make things like they used to".  Newer machines are faster and can do more stuff but the old girls are plain and simple when and old girl brakes you buy a part of fire up the welder and torches.  The new rigs give you one more headache, you need to diag. , then buy the part, and chances are you still need to use the welder!  If it's not for production, I like the older rigs.

[moonhill]

Computer technology and silicone chips etc. are going to change with the next generation of people, 20-30 years, most all of us will see it.  It is going to move to an atomic level, which means very small stuff.  Who know what it will all look like in 20 years?  You may want to think of the impossible.  You could choose to live a backwards life style at that point.   

Tim

[bushmechanic]

When I started out at this in the late 80's there wasn't a harvester to be seen in my area,all the cutting was done with men and chainsaws.Now some 20 odd years later there isn't a manual faller to be found in my area,it's all done with harvesters.I embraced the change with the machines and haven't lost a days work since and am one of the few who work on harvesters here.Its not as bad as you think,systems don't change much and I guess that there are a few guys like me who want to help out others.The company I work for owns a 1263 John Deere harvester but we are hauling wood with a 1982 Timberjack 230D forwarder and a 1991 Tree Farmer C5D forwarder,I hope they keep with the old porters just because they are easy to repair.My personal machine is a 1963 Timberline Ellicott 201B,which I use for snow clearing and firewood,she's pretty tired iron.

[treefarmer87]

i just started logging full time a year or so ago and i just turned 22 with nothing but a pick-up, trailer, and a tractor, i saved some money bought a chevy 2 ton, a prentice loader, and i have a guy that hauls to the mill i do holding a treefarmer skidder for me so if you do it right you might be able to make it and good luck to whoever tries im not that old but i can say its not easy....

[captain_crunch]

If I had to make a liveing with my equipment I would Starve. But doing it as a weekend Warrior I get by. My problem is the Equipment is not the only thing wearing out

 


My 1949 Skidding devise But I got lucky it has a 56 engine and was owned by a not so ambisious farmer. And till I put logging equip on it spent its life resting

[treefarmer87]

thats a good looking dozer i like those older ones a lot better than the newer ones

[sjfarkas]

advances in equipment will come and we probably won't realize it.  unless you dwell on the past you won't even notice the changes untill ten years from now someone will post a "remember when".

[tlandrum]

my stuff is luckily old enough to not have computers. i have a 955l cat track loader,an 85 model freightliner triple axle, a 1988 clarke f66g grapple skidder,a barko 80 knuckleboom. all paid for as i went. i am doing an in frame on the barko power unit at the moment, while i cant log. but all seems to be in good shape and glad to not have to pay a shop to work on it all the time. barely enough money in it to pay me let alone a mechanic.