Best all-around Chainsaw

[blkhillsvt]

Can anyone shed some light on who makes the "best" all around chainsaw in the market? Referring to everyday cutting of just about any size/make of tree.

[Ianab]

Expect a lot of opinions 

Best all round saw probably doesn't exist, it depends on what your needs are? Some folks never come across trees more than 24" dia, and a nice light 50-60cc saw will be fine.

But if you look at the top line saws from Stihl, Husky, JRed and Dolmar then you will end up with a good machine.

But my Dolmar 7900 may be overkill for many folks, yet it is not enough saw for some of the local trees.(Break out the Husky 3120)

Dealer and parts supply is also an issue, buying the best saw in the world isn't so good if you break something on it and have to wait a week for parts.

Ian

[Gary_C]

Whatever saw that will start when you need it. Second most important thing is a well trained and safe operator. Then a sharp chain is necessary. Other than that any old port in a storm and any color saw will do. 

[beenthere]

blkhillsvt
Of course no one can....but I'd vote for the Stihl MS361.   If for no other reason than I have one. 

But otherwise, just 'cause they seem to be spoken highly of here and on other places I've been.

But dealer support is top of the list for selecting a saw.

Taking good care of any saw will make most saws "good" to own. And don't loan it to anyone else to run. 

[woodmills1]

U R gonna need at least 2 no matter who, where or what ya cut.


My preference  Stihl   get an Ms 280 or so and a 660 and there aren't too many stems or branches you can't tackle

[moonhill]

I use a Stihl 260 and a 360.  I use the 260 far more than the 360, it is peppy and with a crisp chain cuts fast.  The 360 is much heavier and just lacks in the power department, it doesn't wind out like the 260.  It may just be the weight of the saw, I just like the lighter saw.   I use a chain saw for joinery in the shop and everything beyond.  I take both into the woods.

Tim

[thecfarm]

Depends on how much you have to spend too.Some only want to spend $400,some $800.Depends on how much you will use it too.Some just cut firewood,some cut to sell logs,some do all that and cut alot of small stuff too.My saw is used alot.I run a 372xp.But the dealer is the key word here.Need a good dealer,unless you plan on working on them yourself.Just like Dodge,Ford and Chevy,just depends.

[moonhill]

The dealer I deal with doesn't speak kindly of the Stihl but sells them as well as Husky, but that is ok I don't take them in much.  The last time was for a leaky fuel tank that didn't have a leak, crud around the gasket, my fault.

An air hose it a wonderful tool for cleaning saws.  I have only recently had an air compressor.

Tim

[Rocky_J]

If you're a homeowner looking for a saw to use on one or two weekends a month, then you will probably be best suited with something middle of the road. If you're a pro making a living with your saw then you don't need to ask the question. Since I'm not familiar with most of the homeowner models from which you will likely end up picking, I'll back out until you can narrow it down a little bit.

And for the record, most everyone in the past who has shown up asking "What is the single best saw out there?" has ended up buying something cheap marketed toward bargain hunting homeowners. So forgive me if my reply seems a bit harsh.

[zopi]

have four...180C, 290, 192TC and MS-660 with a scorched piston...my favorite saw and the one I do 85% of my cutting with...

Drum Roll, please....





The 180...one cutting little bugger with that pico chain...

All around saw, for light use...270-280....med-heavy use....361-440..

Of course, you can't own too many chainsaws...kinda like golf clubs...

[GASoline71]

If you're a homeowner looking for a saw to use on one or two weekends a month, then you will probably be best suited with something middle of the road. If you're a pro making a living with your saw then you don't need to ask the question. Since I'm not familiar with most of the homeowner models from which you will likely end up picking, I'll back out until you can narrow it down a little bit.

And for the record, most everyone in the past who has shown up asking "What is the single best saw out there?" has ended up buying something cheap marketed toward bargain hunting homeowners. So forgive me if my reply seems a bit harsh.

Doesn't seem harsh to me Brian... you saved me from having to type the same thing.

Gary

[Ianab]

Value for money is also part of the equation. 

I have a Stihl ms310, not one of their best models, but relatively cheap and good reliability. You can stick it in the shed for 6 months, haul it out, fill up with fresh gas, sharpen the chain and it cuts perfecty OK. Thats a big plus to most part time chainsaw users. Power, weight, cutting speed are all nice, but if the saw doesn't start they are sorta irrelevant.

"Whats the best saw for YOU?" is a better question. And that depends on how much you use the saw, and what you are cutting.

Ian

[rebocardo]

If I could have only one saw to cut "anything" it would be a Stihl 066 or 660. Best all around saw at 3 pounds lighter is the Husky 372 for me. The most important saw I ever bought was a Poulan Wildthing 2875 with 18" bar. Because I made 160+ hour$ with it being my 1st gas saw.

[timberjack240]

well we have / had 268xp 359 371xp 372xp 272xp 288xp 385xp and 394xp and there s a 2100 somwhere huskies of course so we pretty well had it covered but as mentioned .. depends on what your doin . for firee wood i prefer the 359 or the 268 .. trimmin soft woods 371 272 372 288 or 385 .. for cuttin timber 385 all the way 288 if i have to and the big guys dont leave the yard .. it depends on what your doing.. i dont know what your expeieance level is .. im jsut gonna say this i wouldnt recommend a 385 husky if your gonna be cuttin fire wood on the weekends. . it was said befoer about a 361 stihl .. the guy i used work for had one .. worked good light but good power .. cut some big trees like 35 in white ash w it not my preferance for felling w but it can be done .. it depends on what your lookin to use the saw for but either way they make a saw for you .. u jsut gotta kno what your gonna need it for   
rebocardo .. where were you makin that kinda moeny i want in on that   

[Ianab]

"rebocardo .. where were you makin that kinda moeny i want in on that "

Umm, wait for big storm, look for tree leaning over expensive roof, charge $500 to rig, cut and remove the thing. 3-4 hours work, everyone is happy.

Not easy, not for the faint of heart, but most important is that your saw starts and cuts, not the brand name or power/weight ratio.

Now if you are doing those jobs every day, then you can quickly pay for a MS200T that will make your life easier, and last for years.

If you need a saw today to cut a fallen tree thats sitting on your driveway, then a Wildthing may be just what you need.

Ian

[Valley Mick]

First off you gotta say what youre gonna be cutting.  Cedar posts, Hard wood or brush.  You need to match the saw to what you want.  I,ve got a ms170 for brush and small work. 12" logs ect...     And a 034 stihl with a 20" bar for felling bigger stuff and blocking.      The biggest and most important thing with any saw is keeping it sharp.
If it won't cut, a big saw is no good and visa versa,   I use my 170 more than any other saw I got. it will cut a 14 inch oak in no time at all.  IF IT'S SHARP!!!!!

[cb6048]

My biased opinion is anything husky pro, but I like my 576xp/24" for the big stuff and my 346xp/18" for the rest

[bandmiller2]

Kept sharp,kept clean ,good fuel mix,drained and run dry when your done,almost any saw will give good service.A good commercial saw maintained will last Joe homeowner most of his life and be a joy to use,money spent on the best is never wasted.Rather than buy a cheap box store wonder for a little jobs it would be more cost effective to rent a real saw.Frank C.

[timberjack240]

Umm, wait for big storm, look for tree leaning over expensive roof, charge $500 to rig, cut and remove the thing. 3-4 hours work, everyone is happy....
 nevermind im good .. im what you call a ground man    

[SawTroll]

Around here the MS361 is the best alrounder, but I use the 346xp more.....



It obviously depends on the wood - no easy answer!   

[windthrown]

Referring to everyday cutting of just about any size/make of tree.

No saw out there fits that bill. If you are going to 'cut anything,' an 880 is too big to lug around all day and it has very high vibration. Also try using that size saw for thinning small 4-8 inch stuff. If you run an 026 or a 346, they are too small to effectively cut and buck larger trees.

In reality you are going to need at least 2 saws, for use reasons and for reliability. One for falling and bucking, and one for limbing and thinning. Personally I would rate the 361 as the best all around saw, because it is large enough to run a 25 inch bar (many here run them with 28 but the oiler needs to be modified to do that without burning the bar and chain). I have cut down many 36 inch DBH trees with them. I have limbed and thinned with a 361 all day, and it runs good for that. They are not selling them here any more though. You have to get the heavier and more expensive 362... 

Also the reliability thing, one saw is not good for taking out in the woods. Two is better. I have multiple 026 and 361 saws, as well as an 044. I take a pair of them with me, depending on the cutting I am going to do. If you only could have one saw though? I would opt for a woods ported 361. That would give you 440 power and 361 smooth and light weight. A 441 would be similar, but it has more weight and wider body. I like the 361/026 pairing for firewood and tree trimming, and the 044/361 pair fopr falling and trimming trees to about 28 inch DBH, or 044/206 pair for falling and limbing larger trees. 

[ehp]

I agree on the 2 saw dual as you just never know when you are going to get suck or break down, if I'm not in a huge hurry I like the 60cc range and use a 361 myself but the 359/357 are just as nice . if more needs to be done then 7900/372/460 as they are all good saws can cut just that much faster .

[downeast]

Gee, what's all this about "homeowners" not needing 'pro'gear ?
Sorry that both Gary (Gasoline) and Brian (Rocky J. ) are now "homeless" 

Having been on both "sides" of the fence, pro grade tools are worth the $$$$. Then again, it's the skill, attitude, and training that makes it.  I've seen and hired "pros" not worth &%$#@ , and non-pros so highly skilled that they would put any 'pro' into the ground using a chainsaw ( or firearms, or ______ ). Watch one of the Game of Logging contests, or the other Logging games.

[TessiersFarm]

I agree Pro saw or nothing at all.  I personally run Stihl, I like the service at my local Dealer and thats what they sell.  I have a 180 that is awsome when I am bush hogging and working fence lines.  I love my 026 (260) and I still use it a lot but I kept going through mounts by pushing it through too big of wood too fast.  I bought a 036 and I absoloutly love it and it has never been to the shop for repairs.  I also have a 361 that I bought for my help and I like that just as well.  I bought an 045 and that is the cats meow for cutting firewood off of a pile of tree length and for bucking large trees.  I bought the 045 because I practically stole it from an old feller and I wanted to try out a larger saw, it is going to be replaced with a 460 within the next few months.  Long story longer I would not want a 460 without at least one of the smaller saws and I wouldn't want the 260 without at least one of the larger saws.  I guess that narrows it down to the 361.  My wife often asks how many chainsaws I really need, to which I reply 1 more ( I use the same line for guns). 

[downeast]

I agree Pro saw or nothing at all.  I personally run Stihl, I like the service at my local Dealer and thats what they sell.  I have a 180 that is awsome when I am bush hogging and working fence lines.  I love my 026 (260) and I still use it a lot but I kept going through mounts by pushing it through too big of wood too fast.  I bought a 036 and I absoloutly love it and it has never been to the shop for repairs.  I also have a 361 that I bought for my help and I like that just as well.  I bought an 045 and that is the cats meow for cutting firewood off of a pile of tree length and for bucking large trees.  I bought the 045 because I practically stole it from an old feller and I wanted to try out a larger saw, it is going to be replaced with a 460 within the next few months.  Long story longer I would not want a 460 without at least one of the smaller saws and I wouldn't want the 260 without at least one of the larger saws.  I guess that narrows it down to the 361.  My wife often asks how many chainsaws I really need, to which I reply 1 more ( I use the same line for guns). 

I dropped into the 260 from 044 and 028 for ease of use: the weight of the saws was making me whine.    Age, old stupid injuries coming home to roost. So far so good except when I could use a longer bar and not get bogged down in bigger DBH cuts. Most of my wood is in the 18"- 24" range here.
Is the 361 really that good for the extra weight and power ( and $$) over the 260 ? Like they say it will cure ingrown toenails, dandruff, etc... ? 

[windthrown]

I dropped into the 260 from 044 and 028 for ease of use: the weight of the saws was making me whine.    Age, old stupid injuries coming home to roost. So far so good except when I could use a longer bar and not get bogged down in bigger DBH cuts. Most of my wood is in the 18"- 24" range here.
Is the 361 really that good for the extra weight and power ( and $$) over the 260 ? Like they say it will cure ingrown toenails, dandruff, etc... ? 

Yah, age and injury... I have tendonitis and arthritis, but no white finger (yet). The 361 is (or was, no longer sold here) that much better considering the prices. The 260 PRO (260 non-PRO is no longer sold in the states either) is $530. The 361 here was $610. $80 difference, and a hell of a lot more saw for the money. No comparison, in my view. The 026 falls short on power in larger stuff. I regularly run a 25 inch bar on my 361s. I bought one with a 28 inch on it that I swapped over to my 044, where it is at home. I have three 361s and five (or maybe 6 with loose parts) 260/026s. All my 026s are non-PRO models. No real need for the decomp or the adjustable oilers. The 'non-Pro' 260 runs just as good as the 260-PRO. The 260 has more plastic; the starter housing on the 260 is plastic (as was the 'case' on some of the 036/360s). That said, I recommend a 260s to people that do not need the grunt of a 361. They are good saws, but the design is old and the 346xp is better in class (more plastic there too).

As for running only 'pro' vs 'homeowner' saws, there is a lot of overlap between the two classes of saws. For example, the 026 has a plastic starter, and the 390 has a decomp and adjustible oiler. The non-PRO 026 is really a pro saw. Where you draw the line is what works in your particular situation. I have done a lot of falling, thinning and limbing with so-called homeowner saws, like Echo 3000s and Stihl 290/390s. The 390 has about the same power of a 361 and can run a 25 inch bar no porblem. They are built (in my view) almost as well, and they will last for many years with care. They do not last as long, but they run, and they fall trees. The 250 on the other hand (I have had a lot of 1123 Stihl saws) is just not up there anywhere near the power or quality compared to the 260. The 290 and 250 saws are also clamshell engine cases, and if you plan on porting or rebuilding them, well, then get one of the 'pro' saws.

If I could go back and do it all over again, I would have bought a new 361 and a 260 non-PRO saw pair to start with, and picked up a good used 440 along the way. I have owned many of the newer Stihl saws at one time or other: 020, 210, 230, 250, 026, 290, 361, 044, 460, & 660. I have found that I can bog down even a 660 in a cut if I lever and lean in too hard on it. So you have to have a feather touch on all saws at some point. As for the term, 'no replacement for displacement,' I have found that it is better to run and use the smallest and lightest saw that I can get away with using. Reason being that weight, torque/power and vibration all will fatigue me far faster than light, feathering, and smooth cutting will. After several hours, it is very much noticable, and after the end of the day soaking in the hot tub, I feel a lot better running the 361 over any other saw I have owned. But then I am older and greyer. When I was 20 I ran a pair of MAC 380s. Talk about heavy ball-busting tempramental beasts. Thumbing the manual oiler while running them surely messed up my thumbs. Never mind the hard starting and weight...

[downeast]

Yah, age and injury... I have tendonitis and arthritis, but no white finger (yet). The 361 is (or was, no longer sold here) that much better considering the prices. The 260 PRO (260 non-PRO is no longer sold in the states either) is $530. The 361 here was $610. $80 difference, and a hell of a lot more saw for the money. No comparison, in my view. The 026 falls short on power in larger stuff. I regularly run a 25 inch bar on my 361s. I bought one with a 28 inch on it that I swapped over to my 044, where it is at home. I have three 361s and five (or maybe 6 with loose parts) 260/026s. All my 026s are non-PRO models. No real need for the decomp or the adjustable oilers. The 'non-Pro' 260 runs just as good as the 260-PRO. The 260 has more plastic; the starter housing on the 260 is plastic (as was the 'case' on some of the 036/360s). That said, I recommend a 260s to people that do not need the grunt of a 361. They are good saws, but the design is old and the 346xp is better in class (more plastic there too).

As for running only 'pro' vs 'homeowner' saws, there is a lot of overlap between the two classes of saws. For example, the 026 has a plastic starter, and the 390 has a decomp and adjustible oiler. The non-PRO 026 is really a pro saw. Where you draw the line is what works in your particular situation. I have done a lot of falling, thinning and limbing with so-called homeowner saws, like Echo 3000s and Stihl 290/390s. The 390 has about the same power of a 361 and can run a 25 inch bar no porblem. They are built (in my view) almost as well, and they will last for many years with care. They do not last as long, but they run, and they fall trees. The 250 on the other hand (I have had a lot of 1123 Stihl saws) is just not up there anywhere near the power or quality compared to the 260. The 290 and 250 saws are also clamshell engine cases, and if you plan on porting or rebuilding them, well, then get one of the 'pro' saws.

If I could go back and do it all over again, I would have bought a new 361 and a 260 non-PRO saw pair to start with, and picked up a good used 440 along the way. I have owned many of the newer Stihl saws at one time or other: 020, 210, 230, 250, 026, 290, 361, 044, 460, & 660. I have found that I can bog down even a 660 in a cut if I lever and lean in too hard on it. So you have to have a feather touch on all saws at some point. As for the term, 'no replacement for displacement,' I have found that it is better to run and use the smallest and lightest saw that I can get away with using. Reason being that weight, torque/power and vibration all will fatigue me far faster than light, feathering, and smooth cutting will. After several hours, it is very much noticable, and after the end of the day soaking in the hot tub, I feel a lot better running the 361 over any other saw I have owned. But then I am older and greyer. When I was 20 I ran a pair of MAC 380s. Talk about heavy ball-busting tempramental beasts. Thumbing the manual oiler while running them surely messed up my thumbs. Never mind the hard starting and weight...

For its size, torque, HP according to users the 361 seems the closest to "all-around" saw. You PNW guys have much larger DBH than here in the Northeast, and need a saw that can pul a 28" bar. So in my old age (sic) and with no need to make a buck anymore  , the smallest saw with the most bark per HP is the best bet= MS260. The 260 Pro is a waste of $$. That 361 gets some raves by all users ! I used a 372XP for awhile last year--too heavy and bulky for me now.

Plastic: not to worry. It has all changed with engineering and compounds better in many applications than metals. Think Glock, or Kevlar apps, or any of the 'fleece', or "plastic" carbon engineering we use now.

Oh yeah the Hot Tub solution. Our outdoor Snorkel wood fired tub gets to be a need especially in winter ( never used in summer ). Now that Maine's pulp market has died, more of the softwood gets burnt in the Snorkel. 

[windthrown]

The 260 Pro is a waste of $$.

Agreed. But Stihl does not sell the non-pro model here in the states any more. Only the 260-PRO model. Supposedly Stihl is moving the 260 in with the 290 in the to-be-released strato engine models later in 2010. The 260 was obsoletized by the 270, but sales of the 260 remain far better than the 270. Compared to the 361, the 270 was a wasted design. Nearly the same weight and not nearly the power. The 362 is about 3/4 of a pound more than the 361. So they beefed up the power to compensate. And the price! *cough* Near $700 here.

A hot tub is a good idea... time for a dip. My shoulder is killing me. I have a Hot Spring Jetsetter tub. Portable, I dragged it up here form California with me.

[downeast]

The 260 Pro is a waste of $$.

Agreed. But Stihl does not sell the non-pro model here in the states any more. Only the 260-PRO model. Supposedly Stihl is moving the 260 in with the 290 in the to-be-released strato engine models later in 2010. The 260 was obsoletized by the 270, but sales of the 260 remain far better than the 270. Compared to the 361, the 270 was a wasted design. Nearly the same weight and not nearly the power. The 362 is about 3/4 of a pound more than the 361. So they beefed up the power to compensate. And the price! *cough* Near $700 here.

A hot tub is a good idea... time for a dip. My shoulder is killing me. I have a Hot Spring Jetsetter tub. Portable, I dragged it up here form California with me.

Dip well     
We're getting snow dumped on us here now and through Sunday--easy 12" + on the flat and growing fast and drifting. Just finished tamping down the 2-3 mi of skid trails. The Snorkel will be cold for awhile  ( neat tub BTW ).

[rebocardo]

> "rebocardo .. where were you makin that kinda moeny i want in on that "

The  $ was on the hours part, not the 160    I got 160+ hours from the saw.  Though $150 an hour is what I would charge for a crew of 4.

[windthrown]

Dip well     
We're getting snow dumped on us here now and through Sunday--easy 12" + on the flat and growing fast and drifting. Just finished tamping down the 2-3 mi of skid trails. The Snorkel will be cold for awhile  ( neat tub BTW ).

We had a big surprise snow dump here this week. 5 inches here in 6 hours. This town came to a crawl. Took people 6 hours to get home from work. Many many many road closures and wreaks. No one could get any traction. The weather people kept saying that it would turn to rain. It did not until a day later. Oops. The city goons sent all the snowplow guys home early, becasue the weather goons said it was not going to snow much and it was going to turn to rain. Yah, the weather listens to the weather people and the local idiot politicians. Snow is gone now, but the wreaks are piled up at the autoshops in town. My 4WD made it through, even after a sideways skid losing all traction on a steep hill. I was lucky. Back to rain again, all the snow has melted now. But the people in the city are good and *pithed off and still screaming at any reporters that they see about their crappy weather predictions, and the moron politicians who listen to them. The media is sweeping it under the rug as fast as they can. "And in other news tonight..." 

[bill m]

> "rebocardo .. where were you makin that kinda moeny i want in on that "

The  $ was on the hours part, not the 160    I got 160+ hours from the saw.  Though $150 an hour is what I would charge for a crew of 4.

Your giving away your services @ 175/hr for a crew of 4. When I had a crew of 6 I charged 100/hr per man and always had a 4 month backlog of work.

[GASoline71]

Gee, what's all this about "homeowners" not needing 'pro'gear ?
Sorry that both Gary (Gasoline) and Brian (Rocky J. ) are now "homeless" 

Having been on both "sides" of the fence, pro grade tools are worth the $$$$. Then again, it's the skill, attitude, and training that makes it.  I've seen and hired "pros" not worth &%$#@ , and non-pros so highly skilled that they would put any 'pro' into the ground using a chainsaw ( or firearms, or ______ ). Watch one of the Game of Logging contests, or the other Logging games.

LMAO... 

What does GOL have to do with anything?

Gary

[Rocky_J]

Can anybody give me a place to stay for a couple weeks? I just found out that I'm homeless! 

[GASoline71]

Maybe we're hopeless Brian...

Gary

[windthrown]

> "rebocardo .. where were you makin that kinda moeny i want in on that "

The  $ was on the hours part, not the 160    I got 160+ hours from the saw.  Though $150 an hour is what I would charge for a crew of 4.

Wow. I charge $75 an hour for a crew of one, my Bandit chipper and saws. I am not the busiest guy around, and I cannot compete with the Mexicans. Overhead, travel time, and gas sucks up a lot of money though. $65 an hour is my discount rate for friends, family and churches. At $35 an hour I may as well pack it all in and just give the biz to the Mexicans.

[downeast]

Gee, what's all this about "homeowners" not needing 'pro'gear ?
Sorry that both Gary (Gasoline) and Brian (Rocky J. ) are now "homeless" 

Having been on both "sides" of the fence, pro grade tools are worth the $$$$. Then again, it's the skill, attitude, and training that makes it.  I've seen and hired "pros" not worth &%$#@ , and non-pros so highly skilled that they would put any 'pro' into the ground using a chainsaw ( or firearms, or ______ ). Watch one of the Game of Logging contests, or the other Logging games.

LMAO... 

What does GOL have to do with anything?
Gary

Got a tent boys ? We got space in the snow here for you homeless.

The Game of Logging isn't a game except for the name. It's a *DanG serious approach to using a saw efficiently, safely, with speed, and with accuracy such as dropping a leaner where YOU want it. Look it up....very interesting way of looking at tool use as a "sport". For example: I never bored before the GOL program. Think firearms courses and "contests" used in sniper training, or rock climbing.  Techniques learned in GOL have made this so-called "Homeowner" (sic ) cut faster, safer, more accurately.

Hey, Gary (and Brian) when you stop learning anything, it's time to not come down for breakfast. Got a tip on which oil to use ?   

[Rocky_J]

I think Gary knows what GOL is, we've spent enough days discussing the merits as well as shortcomings of their program at great lengths. I believe Gary may even know a couple GOL instructors personally. I think his point was that GOL wasn't the topic of discussion in this thread.  The OP was simply looking for the perfect chainsaw.

Thanks for the offer of a place to camp. What brand of mattress are you providing and are the sheets at least 800 thread count? Scratchy sheets give me a terrible rash. 

Speaking of breakfast, what are you serving tomorrow?

[downeast]

I think Gary knows what GOL is, we've spent enough days discussing the merits as well as shortcomings of their program at great lengths. I believe Gary may even know a couple GOL instructors personally. I think his point was that GOL wasn't the topic of discussion in this thread.  The OP was simply looking for the perfect chainsaw.

Thanks for the offer of a place to camp. What brand of mattress are you providing and are the sheets at least 800 thread count? Scratchy sheets give me a terrible rash. 

Speaking of breakfast, what are you serving tomorrow?

This homeowner vs pro thing is useless, useless.....unless, unless there's an image problem. 

For you pro non-homeowner homeless there are no free lunches Downeast: no nothing but space on the ground. May make men out of you, rashes and all. 

Oh yeah, breakfast for the hubris-afflicted is Humble Pie---bring your own utencils. 

[windthrown]

Was *The Termite* (Gary's V-8 Buick fire breathing saw) a homeowner or pro saw? 

[GASoline71]

Got a tent boys ? We got space in the snow here for you homeless.

The Game of Logging isn't a game except for the name. It's a *DanG serious approach to using a saw efficiently, safely, with speed, and with accuracy such as dropping a leaner where YOU want it. Look it up....very interesting way of looking at tool use as a "sport". For example: I never bored before the GOL program. Think firearms courses and "contests" used in sniper training, or rock climbing.  Techniques learned in GOL have made this so-called "Homeowner" (sic ) cut faster, safer, more accurately.

Hey, Gary (and Brian) when you stop learning anything, it's time to not come down for breakfast. Got a tip on which oil to use ?   

This homeowner vs pro thing is useless, useless.....unless, unless there's an image problem. 

For you pro non-homeowner homeless there are no free lunches Downeast: no nothing but space on the ground. May make men out of you, rashes and all. 

Oh yeah, breakfast for the hubris-afflicted is Humble Pie---bring your own utencils. 

Not quite sure how to take your posts my friend.  But the GOL is a joke for big tmber fallin' out here... Use it to your hearts content if it makes you feel like a "pro"... I could care less about homeowner vs. pro saws.  These threads are always useless...

I don't care about image, and status... Come pack my lunch for me, and follow me for a day in the woods.  Bring your big boy pants... You'll see your GOL stuff won't apply.  Bore cuttin' is 95% of the time used to make up for lack of fallin' skills... period.  Also... what in the heck does all your rambling on about "firearms", and "sniper training" have to do with the price of tea in China?

Sorry bud... I ain't buyin' what you're shovelin'...

Gary

[Rocky_J]

Idunno who our new friend is, Gary. He must have followed you over here from AS because he sure didn't come from the Treehouse. 

And I agree wholeheartedly that these "What is the best saw" threads are always worthless. There's a million of them and they all follow exactly the same pattern. That's why I don't feel bad about a little bit of a derail. Seems like the OP hasn't come back by anyway, maybe he got lost somewhere. 

[GASoline71]

I dunno either Brian...

Gary

[Al_Smith]

  The best saw seems to be the one that starts and runs all day .

[downeast]

Hey, calm down , no one is assaulting your status. It's just another way of looking at things.

GOL is another tool, another way to see a set of skills. Look into it....it's not just "boring", but a way of doing work, not THE answer.

You boys (sic) obviously know everything there is about your trade. Great. But get off putting yourselves with the angels over "homeowners". Silly. 

And, GOL is again, another bunch of skills, and techniques to get a job done. That's it. You know all there is, and don't want to know more, super. It's your call.

And, pack your own lunch boy   Ain't no mommie around here. 

[Mooseherder]

Gee I dunno how y'all could warrant gettin' all this guff with you being so nice and all to the person who asked the question about which Chainsaw he should consider.   Probably the same reason he hasn't reposted to you slamming him.
For all intensive purposes, the guy owns a Skidder, so he's probably a step above joe homeowner type user.  Your comments are rude as all get out.

[windthrown]

Gary's idea of playing the GOL. He seems to be winning with his V-8 hotsaw.

[woodmills1]

nothing is usless to the person who asked, if the answer is set up to help them.





I dont know what other boards your on but this one is not that one

[bill m]

Timber cutting here in the north east is nothing like what is done in the PNW. In the PNW most of what they do is clear cuts. In the north east we do mostly select cuts where directional felling is almost mandatory. Yes - I bore cut every saw timber tree that I cut, leave a strap in the back, double check my felling zone to make sure it is clear, double check my retreat path, check the wind, set a wedge if needed, then let the tree go. The GOL training has helped a lot of people to work smarter and SAFER in the woods.

[GASoline71]

All I can say is wow...

No disrespect was meant to anybody... But some know-it-all cat comes on and tells me that I am puttin' myself on a pedestal above a "homeowner" has no clue about me as a person.  Whether I fall timber for a livin', or just trim up the little dogwoods in my back makes a big difference to the "best all around chainsaw".

I'm not going to attack a 30" Doug Fir on a steep sidehill with an MS290.  I'm not gonna pull out the 044 to remove a few saplings in the corner of my yard.

No matter what forum, these kinds of threads are a loaded question... and they usually go exactly how this one has gone... to the dogs.

It went from bad to worse.  I got fished in hook-line-and-sinker.  The whole GOL thing is a moot point.  I have seen GOL trained guys cut, and I'm not impressed.  It has it's purpose, but not for the conditions we cut in.  We have to directional fall trees to the lay... just as you "select" guys are doin'.  Just because we are "clear cuttin'" doesn't mean we just stumble out of the bar, and head to the woods, and haphazardly fall trees where ever they may fall.  One tree that is fallen the wrong way can mess up an entire turn...

Apples to apples... However... I still for the life of me, cannot see why people will bore cut every soingle tree they cut.  It is a false sense that you are safer and in control... it's actually more dangerous than your typical conventional, or humboldt.

Ya know what... I digress... not like anyone is gonna give a rip what some knuckledragger logger from the PNW has to say anyways...  I'm not safe, and I kick puppies too...

Gary

[windthrown]

Now now, it is common knowledge that here in the PNW:

-We do not have any hardwoods here. Zero. Its all soft pine, redwood and firs.
-We run saws with bars that are way too long so we can cut the union boss' desk in half when we are *pithed off.
-We only clear cut. Select cutting and thinning is all done by the wood fairies at night.
-We do not do any directional falling at all. No need. Its all hap-hazard cable yarding like on the TV shows.   
-We all cut the way that they do on the TV logging shows, losing fingers and popping up out of the water to make a cut.
-Everyone here does 'casting' with a yoder cable. Its required logging practice.
-We only have Stihls and Huskies here, and the PNW is dominated by Stihl dealers. (well, that one is actually correct).
-We rampantly destroy the environment, slicking off hillside after hillside, spotted owls getting stomped on as we go.

[Al_Smith]

  --and now the rest of the story .

Truth be known the PNW bunch most likely are the best fallers in the world .They clear cut because those Douglas firs are harvested just like we in the midwest harvest corn .The difference is we get paid every year ,they about every 50 or 60 for the crop . Fact is they do exactly the same thing in the Carolinas and Georgia in case anyone wanted to know except a lot of it is done with mechanical harvesters .

I personaly know two west coast fallers and one of them hauled a 1956 Lombard saw half way across the US to give me last spring .This guy could drive a nail with a tree from 150 foot away ,on a slope or not .

The saws ,what anyone likes .Most people use them all and with good luck but everybody has their favorites just like Ford ,Chevy or heaven forbid Toyota .Then too Toyota makes a pretty good product just not my cup of tea .

The game of logging,a training regime,maybe good maybe not so .I've seen them trip 40 foot spars for accuracy etc .at shows .It's an exibition type thing just like Stihl timber sports .No diff than a few of us that cut cants for time with souped up saws .

I mean a square cant certainly doesn't grow in the woods nor do you care if you make 3 cuts in under 5 seconds which I've never been able to do . It ,like the GOL is more a sporting event from my perspective ,just like the hotsaws or banging away with a razor sharp axe on a cant and trying not to prune all your toes off .

Never the less,the GOL ,west coast fallers ,clear cuts or what brand of saw certainly is nothing to get all uptight about .

[567paloggger]

gasoline71 i like your saying chicks dig scars i was in the wrong place at the wrong time tree wacked me right in my face from my lip down my chin down my neck. Split right open lots of stitches and surgery and cracked my chin bone and knocked 4 bottom teeth out and cracked my jaw bone had to replace all of that but im still cutting even more wood than before

[bill m]

Apples to apples... However... I still for the life of me, cannot see why people will bore cut every single tree they cut.  It is a false sense that you are safer and in control... it's actually more dangerous than your typical conventional, or humbolt

Gary

Maybe you should come to New England and spend a day with a me to get a first hand look at how we do things and why we do them. And then I will go to your neck of the woods and do the same. I think we both could learn something here and come away with a better understanding of each others jobs.

[timberjack240]

i gess when it comes down to it its where you are . to watch cutters cut soft wood trres off at waist height and have long center pull makes me cringe. my stumps around here are to be  no higher then 8 inches. they prefer 3-5 in clsoer to 3 if you can and no center pull . as far asthe whole game of logging thing i was never thru it. as far as that goes i feel the way i was taught was probably better than what they can give you. they dont teach how to stump jump a 40 in white ash leanin 50 degrees on a hard bank..  like gary i bore very few trees most times i pull my trees so i saw one side off keepin the tip just behind the notch and work around w only one side holding. reason bein mostly its faster and less stump shot to cut off and i hate boring. now it the tree is leanin hard ill bore but if i dont have to i wont. or i leave a holder on each side makes for a nice clean butt. basically i cut each tree as i see it needs to be for the best job.    i may be young but the ppl that i was trained by was my pap 48 yrs exp. another guy 18 yrs of solid cuttin down my uncle around 20 and my dad of 9 yrs. im not the best but im much further ahead than anybody else my age id lay moeny on that. i was taught speed accurancy and production. some days you have to be accurate and theres other days you can fly. im w gary you have your way i have mine.. i wont knock anybody but dont tell me im doin it wrong when you took courses and all you do is trim the shrubs in the front yard.
and down east.. there not sayin they kno everyhting there is to know. but when you find what works for u stick w it or youll be diginyour head outta the dirt from a tree . i dont kno your expeiriacne level but im gessin the fella your talkin to have a few years in  . as far as that professional timber fallers are a step above home owners in my opinion not that thats a bad thing .we make our livin by cuttin trees everyday. it bites when you have somebody come out w a saw half the size of yours thats clean cause they dont use it and say well thats not rite your wrong .. you have to see where there comin from too. its easier to understand taht when youve been underneath a tree or busted across the head  a good shot .. its rather convincing.. been there.   

[rebocardo]

> Your giving away your services @ 175/hr for a crew of 4

Not where the average unskilled -legal- labor wage is $10-$12 an hour and you have to compete against illegal aliens working for $8 an hour cash, where the one legal Mexican owns the competing tree companies. It is where the Mexicans went  when the construction industry dived. I do not do tree work as an official business anymore anyways, no more money in it. Just work part time for myself, especially after the hired help damaged a pool and it came out of my pocket and time.

[timberjack240]

that sounds like the makings of a bad day in a hurry

[SawTroll]

Gee, what's all this about "homeowners" not needing 'pro'gear ?
Sorry that both Gary (Gasoline) and Brian (Rocky J. ) are now "homeless" 

Having been on both "sides" of the fence, pro grade tools are worth the $$$$. Then again, it's the skill, attitude, and training that makes it.  I've seen and hired "pros" not worth &%$#@ , and non-pros so highly skilled that they would put any 'pro' into the ground using a chainsaw ( or firearms, or ______ ). Watch one of the Game of Logging contests, or the other Logging games.

The point is that the pro saws are much more fun to use!   

[Midmountain Man]

Just acquired a Stihl 044 and a 028 and am trying to decide which one to keep. I imagine the suggestion will be to keep them both but I don't think I really need two saws for my anticipated use and would like to get some of the money back that I paid for them.
For now I plan on mainly using it to cut appx. 2 cords a year of oak and pine firewood in addition to minor use around the yard for pruning walnut and cedar trees.
The 044 came with a 3/8" 25" bar and the 028 has a .325" 20" bar. I am leaning towards the 28 being the best for my all-around use but could get talked in to the 44.
Any opinions on if the 44 is overkill or if it's better to have the power and bar length for when I might need it. Could I keep the 44 and get a 20" bar for most of my use and then have the 28" on hand?
Decisions...

[SawTroll]

Just acquired a Stihl 044 and a 028 and am trying to decide which one to keep. I imagine the suggestion will be to keep them both but I don't think I really need two saws for my anticipated use and would like to get some of the money back that I paid for them.
For now I plan on mainly using it to cut appx. 2 cords a year of oak and pine firewood in addition to minor use around the yard for pruning walnut and cedar trees.
The 044 came with a 3/8" 25" bar and the 028 has a .325" 20" bar. I am leaning towards the 28 being the best for my all-around use but could get talked in to the 44.
Any opinions on if the 44 is overkill or if it's better to have the power and bar length for when I might need it. Could I keep the 44 and get a 20" bar for most of my use and then have the 28" on hand?
Decisions...

The weight difference isn't anywhere near the power difference - so keep the 044!   

[John Mc]

Just acquired a Stihl 044 and a 028 and am trying to decide which one to keep. I imagine the suggestion will be to keep them both but I don't think I really need two saws for my anticipated use and would like to get some of the money back that I paid for them.
For now I plan on mainly using it to cut appx. 2 cords a year of oak and pine firewood in addition to minor use around the yard for pruning walnut and cedar trees.

For me, the keeper would be the 028. That's due partly to the fact that I mostly cut firewood under 14" DBH (8-10" diameter is most common). Also due to the fact that neck and back troubles (from an old college wrestling injury) are aggravated by chainsawing, and the heavier the saw, the less of it I can tolerate, and the more problems I have. So I'd rather take a bit more time going at a log from both sides with a smaller saw, than haul around a bigger saw for the rare occasions I really need it.

[Rocky_J]

The 028 is an older generation saw than the 044. It might even have a points ignition. On that basis alone I would keep the 44 instead.

[Midmountain Man]

It's actually an 028 AV Super with Electronic Quickstop. I assumed they were both of the same vintage with maybe the 028 even being newer, but is this not the case?

The seller also had an 025 that they would give me for $80, that I am considering that in tandem with the 044 or I could likely just turn aorund and sell it for more than $80.

[Rocky_J]

I don't know if the last 028's were made before or after the 044 came out. I don't think there was an overlap but I could be wrong. I think they might have had electronic ignition on the last few years of the 028. If yours says 'electronic' then it's most likely one with electronic ignition.

The 028 was introduced in 1977 and the 044 was introduced in 1993.

[Al_Smith]

That 028 wouldn't make a pimple on the behind of an 044 .Keep the 44 . I don't think there's a pound difference in weight but there sure is in power .

[timber tramp]

   I'd keep the 044, buy a shorter bar and chain if you want to. There's tons of parts availability. So you should be able to keep it running for a very long time.    TT

[Midmountain Man]

Sounds like the 044 it is.
Didn't realize the 028 was that much older, that was the clincher. They both run great and the 044 is probably more saw than I need, but I might as well start big. It does seem signficantly heavier than the 028 but for only a handfull of days a year I can manage the extra weight.

Thanks for the advice, any thoughts on a nice 025 for $80, seems like I could keep that along with the 044 or turn around and sell it for at least $150.

[Rocky_J]

The 025 is a decent little saw for light duty. And for that price it wouldn't hurt to keep it around as a backup in case you get the 044 stuck (not that I would know anything about that  ) or for light duty cutting where the 044 would be too big.

[John Mc]

That 028 wouldn't make a pimple on the behind of an 044 .Keep the 44 . I don't think there's a pound difference in weight but there sure is in power .

I didn't realize they were so close in weight. Given that, I'd go with the 044 as well. My upper back can just learn to live with it... given the difference in power, I'd probably make up for it with less time spent cutting.

[windthrown]

The 025 (and all 1123 saws) are a pain to fix IMO. I have owned many of them. They are all stuffed together, have cheaper plastic, and clamshell engines. They are small and light, but the 025 has quite a lot of vibration (more than the 026). They also have the small mount bar that does not interchange with the 044. They run better with Picco B&C rather than .325 that they typically come with. They have a major weakness in the side clutch area that is all plastic. The plastic melts from the heat of the brake, and/or the oil line there that is also palstic will melt open. The clutches in them are also prone to grenading. I see many melted and grenaded clutch 1123 saws on Ebay (more of them than scored engines). The oil pumps in them are a tiny unit prone to clogging too. The clutch cover is plastic as well, and tends to chip and break pretty easy. The air filters are too small, and the tabs tend to break off on them. For about the same price you can get a much better built used 026 (I have on CL). 025 saws sell well on CL, and I have bought, fixed and flipped them there, as they make a great 'homeowner' saw. They go for $150-175 pretty well around here. Buy the 025 and flip it, and put the money from that and the 028 toward an 026 to go with your 044. Then you will have a good pair of Stihl saws. I have several 026s and an 044, and a set of 361s as well. The 026s are easy to fix and fun to run, and they are light and nimble saws. They also hold up to abuse, and they run all day w/o problems. The 1123 saws all tended to pool on me when they were really hot. That made them hard to re-start after a few hours of use.

[bill m]

Keep the 028 and sell the 044 to me.

[GASoline71]

gasoline71 i like your saying chicks dig scars i was in the wrong place at the wrong time tree wacked me right in my face from my lip down my chin down my neck. Split right open lots of stitches and surgery and cracked my chin bone and knocked 4 bottom teeth out and cracked my jaw bone had to replace all of that but im still cutting even more wood than before

I have a few "shavin' scars" of my own.  Have had a total of 39 stitches in my chin alone.  From dirt bikes to trees... my chin is pretty banged up. 

Maybe you should come to New England and spend a day with a me to get a first hand look at how we do things and why we do them. And then I will go to your neck of the woods and do the same. I think we both could learn something here and come away with a better understanding of each others jobs.

I would love to do that Bill... And I am being serious.  I am always wanting to learn from people.  I have never worked a crew back east, and a knuckledragger like me could prolly learn a trick or 2.  Maybe someday I can get back east to do just that. 

Gary

[timberjack240]

 chicks dig the scars and like my window sticker says she thinks my chainsaws sexy  but the first time i texted her and said i was jsut underneathe i tree and may be headed for x rays i doubt ill see u tonite i can walk rite now. im layin on the ground cant move my knee i think my legs broke  . or i jsut had a tree go sailing past my face about 5 ft away !! or i jsut knicked my boot w a saw or i jsut flipped a skidder over it changed her tune  changed her tune .. now anytime the subject comes up its y dont u quit its dangerous  .. so i try to bring it up in a less scary way  the only one she thought was funny was when i texted her and said im cuttin in  a cow pastuer hidin from a bull hes rite there im in a bush!!      my only reply is cuttin trees is like you after all the crap i still keep comin back for more   

[Magicman]

Homelite XL12 + daughters yard + wire under limb - anti-kickback brake = trip to emergency room to get sewed up....

The XL 12 was a good saw through the mid 1970's, but it was loud, slow, and didn't have a chain brake....



 


I just tell folks that a "bear" did it....

[SawTroll]

I don't know if the last 028's were made before or after the 044 came out. I don't think there was an overlap but I could be wrong. I think they might have had electronic ignition on the last few years of the 028. If yours says 'electronic' then it's most likely one with electronic ignition.

The 028 was introduced in 1977 and the 044 was introduced in 1993.

Actually, the 044 was introduced in 1988 (Acres site is wrong on several Stihl models).

The 028Super was made at least until 1990, a German source say 1993.