Author Topic: T & G “V” panel deck ceiling (Read 3968 times)

Larry · « **on:** December 27, 2009, 04:51:40 pm »

This

is supposed to end up here.

As normal I’m not quite sure what I’m doing. My thoughts right now are to snap a line down the center and start the first board there. I’ll be able to push or pull using a clamp, to get the tongue into the groove...there a pretty tight fit. Also starting in the center should give me an equal reveal on each side.

I’m planning on putting a couple of galvanized finishing nails into the field to hold the boards on...or maybe in the tongue...or maybe use staples? I’m really at a lose as to what method is best.

I’m not going to land the board ends on a joist. Thought it would enhance the random look (and save material). Going to put a biscuit in the ends of the board to keep things straight. Of course I’ve never tried this idea before either.

Open to suggestions.

wampum · « **Reply #1 on:** December 27, 2009, 05:12:17 pm »

Larry almost all my ceilings are T&G. The large area at the top of my stairs(14x16 foot) is Black walnut,that I cut milled and planned myself,from my farm. The rest is all pine that I cut milled and planed. With the exception of the kitchen which I left rough and stained it white. The others are all natural. I put up boards as long as 16 foot,mostly by myself. You are right I chalked a line to get the first board square then I checked every couple of rows to make sure I stayed square. I made a support out of 2 2x4's and screwed it to the ceiling rafters ahead of the T&G,to support the end I was not holding up. I then tacked my end up(I was holding) and moved across forcing the groove in place,until I reached the end. Each board end had to split the rafter board to start the next board. The first room I did all by hand. The rest of the house I used an air nailer,that made it a lot easier,because I could use one hand for support and nail with the gun at the same time. It helped sometimes to have a long 2x4 wedged in from the ground to the board and then nail. If you have 1 or 2 people to help,you should have it up in know time with out much problem. Once in a while I had to use the next rafter as a wedge to lever against to push the board in the groove. When I was done I finished it off with 4 inch crown molding,that covered any flaw or un-square area. Hope this helped you a little. That nailing gun was by far the best thing to use,and was easily worth the investment.

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #2 on:** December 27, 2009, 06:12:30 pm »

I put T&G on my ceilings when I put on the addition. Most of these were sloped ceilings, but a few were flat. Since I didn't know what I was doing, I simply started at one side, then kept on moving across the ceiling until I got to the other side. My errors went into one side.

I nailed into the tongue on each rafter. Most of them were old hemlock and not necessarily evenly spaced. I would stagger my joints. That helped in cutting out some of the worst defect and cutting boards that had bowed. Instead of trying to butt the ends together, I cut them at a 45° angle. That made putting the ends together easier.

Of course, if I knew the right way to put it up, I would have. I approached it similar to putting down a floor. I nailed the tongues so the nails wouldn't show. It hasn't fallen down in 15 years.

wampum · « **Reply #3 on:** December 27, 2009, 06:22:41 pm »

Good point Ron,I also started from one side not the middle and only nailed the tongue side. I was re-doing an old farm house. It was really pretty square,so I ended up in pretty good shape.

WDH · « **Reply #4 on:** December 27, 2009, 08:51:14 pm »

If you sheath the ceiling with OSB or plywood, you don't have to worry about ending each board on a rafter or bother with a biscuit joint. The solid ceiling decking allows you to nail without regard to where the boards end. That is extra effort and cost that you might not want to deal with.

pineywoods · « **Reply #5 on:** December 27, 2009, 10:08:50 pm »

I'm about to install a bunch of V groove tongue and groove paneling on the walls and ceiling of a mobile home. I have a pneumatic flooring nailer that I'm gonna try to use. It shoots a 2 inch staple in the tongue. It works real good on flooring, drives the board in place then shoots the staple. I'll let you know how it works.

LeeB · « **Reply #6 on:** December 27, 2009, 10:10:24 pm »

Would that be one of the hammer nailers? It might get a little heavy for overhead work.

Don_Papenburg · « **Reply #7 on:** December 27, 2009, 10:19:12 pm »

My opinion fur out the joist and run the t&g the short way . It breaks up the long runs and hides mistakes better. It is a lot easier to install shorter boards also.

pineywoods · « **Reply #8 on:** December 27, 2009, 10:29:40 pm »

Quote from: LeeB on December 27, 2009, 10:10:24 pm

Would that be one of the hammer nailers? It might get a little heavy for overhead work.

Yup, probably will take 2 people, one to hold the nailer and another to hit it with the hammer

Looking for volunteers

Gary_C · « **Reply #9 on:** December 27, 2009, 11:12:28 pm »

Quote from: pineywoods on December 27, 2009, 10:29:40 pm

Yup, probably will take 2 people, one to hold the nailer and another to hit it with the hammer Looking for volunteers

Is that where you say "when I nod my head you hit it with a hammer."

badpenny · « **Reply #10 on:** December 28, 2009, 12:35:03 am »

I use a "third hand" adjustable pole to hold v groove boards in place, found them on amazon. A couple of 3' bar clamps, reversed to spread, pushes each board into place, 1 3/4" finishing nail from a nail gun through the tongue on each joist or stud holds the board just fine. I work alone, and these techniques sure help a lot.
Beveling one end of each board, and a double bevel on the next board in line, gives a cross grain v that matches the edge v at each joint. Hope this helps

Meadows Miller · « **Reply #11 on:** December 28, 2009, 01:51:26 am »

Gday

Larry i like the look of those boards is it redwood linning ?? with roofing dad and i have always tryed to use exposed beams and nail the boards over the top with a 3" framing gun

its alot better than trying to hold a piece of timber over your head and nail it

as it turns it into a two man job

we have done alot of places with the linning nailed from the underside but its more of a pita in longer lengths and takes longer on diagonals and strait angles its pretty easy in shorter lengths for one person

if your wanting to secret nail it you cant go past a finnish nailer which uses 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 alloy nails the guns i own are both bostich and about 10 yrs old and about $500 ea but will last you a lifetime if you look after them but there are airtool/gun kits outthere you can alot cheaper and seem reasonably well made

with coverage work out howmany boards you will need to cover the width (use the cover with of the board as your width) of the porch and if you want to center it so the start and finnish boards are the same width rip the first (start) board to the width you need then use the groove as your start board as its easier to pop the tongue board into place you can also arais abit of the tongue to get it to go in easier on the last board if you want a flush fit up against the weather boards which wont be a problem in your case as you havent done them yet

If you started buy starting in the center and nailing out to each side your doubling the amont of buggering around to fit two finnish boards into place mate

Quote from: Gary_C on December 27, 2009, 11:12:28 pm

Quote from: pineywoods on December 27, 2009, 10:29:40 pm

Yup, probably will take 2 people, one to hold the nailer and another to hit it with the hammer Looking for volunteers

Is that where you say "when I nod my head you hit it with a hammer."

Havent you boys learnt yet Dont trust anyone else with a hammer noteven your Oldman

Make sure your the one doing the swinging

Ohh and larry remember the old rule Measure Twice Cut Once ittl save you some dramas Mate

Regards Chris

Larry · « **Reply #12 on:** December 28, 2009, 07:12:41 am »

Quote from: Meadows Miller on December 28, 2009, 01:51:26 am

Larry i like the look of those boards is it redwood linning ??

Ohh and larry remember the old rule Measure Twice Cut Once ittl save you some dramas Mate

Chris, that is our eastern red cedar. Its a pretty purple and white color when first cut or machined but turns brown and beige after a few days exposure to light.

I always have trouble with that measure twice rule...I usually cut twice and its still to short.

I have a Senco 15 gauge 2" finish gun so I'll try a nail through the tongue and see how that works.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #13 on:** December 28, 2009, 07:28:00 am »

Quote from: Larry on December 28, 2009, 07:12:41 am

I always have trouble with that measure twice rule...I usually cut twice and its still to short.

Or the second cut to take a smidgeon off a piece of veneer was taken from the wrong edge this time. More for the scrap pile.

Meadows Miller · « **Reply #14 on:** December 28, 2009, 08:29:58 am »

Gday

Larry
I think we all get those odd ones that are alittle short Mate

SD just a lill bit more ive done that on finnish pieces on the table saw

i use a hand plane now Mate

ERC i should have taken abit more notice to your location Mate

Duhh

The sencos are a great gun also just make sure you have got your eye in to where the firing pin comes out of the gun as you can split a tongue pretty quick which aint much fun i usually aim for midpoint between the face of the board and where the tongue starts Mate

Regards Chris

pineywoods · « **Reply #15 on:** December 28, 2009, 09:46:17 am »

Quote from: Gary_C on December 27, 2009, 11:12:28 pm

Quote from: pineywoods on December 27, 2009, 10:29:40 pm

Yup, probably will take 2 people, one to hold the nailer and another to hit it with the hammer Looking for volunteers

Is that where you say "when I nod my head you hit it with a hammer."

What I had in mind was, Looking for volunteer to hold the nailer while I hit it with the hammer
So far, no volunteers, wonder why

Planman1954 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 28, 2009, 12:05:31 pm »

I would probably snap a chalk line along one of the long sides about 3/8" plus the width of the siding away from the starting point. This will give a gap for expansion of the wood. I used pine T&G in my home too...it looks good...especially when it's finished!

Ernie · « **Reply #17 on:** December 28, 2009, 01:24:58 pm »

Quote from: wampum on December 27, 2009, 05:12:17 pm

Larry almost all my ceilings are T&G. The large area at the top of my stairs(14x16 foot) is Black walnut,that I cut milled and planned myself,from my farm. The rest is all pine that I cut milled and planed. With the exception of the kitchen which I left rough and stained it white. The others are all natural.

I'd really like to see some pics please, that black walnut sounds fantastic. What did you use to cut the tongues and grooves?

Gary_C · « **Reply #18 on:** December 28, 2009, 02:51:03 pm »

Do you finish the T & G on all sides before you put it up? Or at least give it a seal coat first?

Seems like you could have some cupping problems if the back side is unfinished.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #19 on:** December 28, 2009, 04:42:39 pm »

Finished or not, unless it's in epoxy or something it's gonna move moister in and out. A "V" groove is put on the back side of any pine I've seen used this way, helps with the cup business.

Cedarman · « **Reply #20 on:** December 28, 2009, 04:53:12 pm »

ERC shrinks or expands so little as it changes moisture that cupping is almost non existant.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #21 on:** December 28, 2009, 04:59:49 pm »

That right there is a good point Cedarman, once it's well dried hardly significant.

Larry · « **Reply #22 on:** December 28, 2009, 05:08:09 pm »

Gary that’s a good question and something I never thought about. Summertime it’s going to be maybe 40-60 degrees hotter on the top. I suppose the air would also be less humid. I hate to depend on any finish for long term protection. Maybe WDH’s idea of putting down OSB first would help.

ERC is supposed to be pretty stable that maybe it won’t cup...at least I thought I read that here at one time. Oh my...so many worries when building a house.

$:-\$

Well...I see cedarman came to my rescue while I was typing this...thanks, I’ll be able to sleep tonight.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #23 on:** December 28, 2009, 05:12:31 pm »

Northern white has similar properties. You'd think with a tree like white cedar growing on the wettest soil it would be sloppy wet. Nope. You can make kindling from it right off the stump practically. Same with western red, it would be raining all the time in the bush on the coast, but you could get a fire going from cedar no trouble.

red oaks lumber · « **Reply #24 on:** December 28, 2009, 06:24:59 pm »

nice looking wood, measure from the wall to the header on both ends if they are the same start on one side and work you way across the ceiling. if they don't measure the same split the diffenance. on the ends of the board cut a 45 deg. to half lap the ends , no need to end on a nailer. i use a crown stapler 1-3/8 long angle into the tounge.
i'm not sure how well a florring nailer will work ,i want to know whos standing on their head to swing the hammer? or the poor sole that is holding the board. that seems like an accedent looking for a place to happen.

Larry · « **Reply #25 on:** February 25, 2010, 05:13:05 pm »

Thought I would report back since I got started.

Quote from: Larry on December 27, 2009, 04:51:40 pm

I’m not going to land the board ends on a joist. Thought it would enhance the random look (and save material). Going to put a biscuit in the ends of the board to keep things straight.

This is working well...a little time consuming cutting the biscuit slots...I need a jig.

Started on one side and split my error by using a chalk line as some suggested.

The biggest problem is my T & G is pretty tight. Wouldn’t be a problem on a wall or floor...but on a ceiling working by myself, its tedious and takes far longer than it should. I got a helper but he won’t come out until it warms up a bit more. Next time I’ll get HSS cutters made with a little extra clearance instead of standard carbide cutters.

Again as some suggested I’m nailing into the tongue. I started with a Senco 15 gauge finish nailer. Sometimes it splits the tongue. Next I tried a Bostitch crown stapler...that works better but it is a little more awkward to place the staple. Maybe I’ll get better with practice.

submarinesailor · « **Reply #26 on:** February 25, 2010, 06:04:07 pm »

Larry,

Do you, or anyone else out there, have a profile and front picture of this type of paneling. I have to drop several large poplars (30"+) in my front yard and I have been thinking about making it into some 3 bead paneling. I saw some up in Fairmont, WV not to long ago and liked it.

Bruce

Don_Papenburg · « **Reply #27 on:** February 26, 2010, 01:31:28 am »

If you nail perpendicular to the board so that the nail head is in line with the grain instead of crossing the grain it will only split once in a hundred nails as opposed to almost every one.

Larry · « **Reply #28 on:** February 26, 2010, 08:47:55 am »

Thanks, I'll try that today.

hogs4hobby · « **Reply #29 on:** March 02, 2010, 08:40:42 am »

good luck on your tounge & grove venture!! my wife & i decided about 4.5 years ago to build us a bigger house. so we had a contractor do the dry in process & we took it from there. 2000 square feet 4 bedroom 2 bath. we do not have a single peice of sheet rock in the house. only the bathrooms & laundry room has tile on floors. our intire house is tongne & groove 3/4" by 3 ,4, 5, 6, 8, 10" withs. floors ,walls ,ceilings. we did all the install our selfs and we had never done this before. but wood was easy to learn quick with.
most important when you have long runs the widths need to be exatact.
now we are past all the interior & have just got our rap around porch on 200' BY 14" and we are going to ceal the ceailing with 1"x6" lumber but it will not be tounge & groove becuase im worried about the hummidy swelling the boards

Magicman · « **Reply #30 on:** March 02, 2010, 09:40:00 am »

I stopped on the joist. Here's what mine looks like. Poplar with a pickle (whitewash) stain. The flash screws it up, but you get the "picture".

WDH · « **Reply #31 on:** March 02, 2010, 06:50:26 pm »

Now that is really beautiful.

Magicman · « **Reply #32 on:** March 02, 2010, 08:20:20 pm »

The wife and I installed this ceiling. It's all hand nailed through the tongue. Many times we nailed a 2X4 to a ceiling joist and she used it as a pry bar to close the T&G gap before I nailed.

Ernie · « **Reply #33 on:** March 02, 2010, 11:48:46 pm »

Looks good magicman, did you do the T&G yourself?

Magicman · « **Reply #34 on:** March 03, 2010, 07:46:13 am »

No, A local millwork shop straight lined and ran the T&G V groove. We put up 3 runs each day. That's all of the overhead that the wife could handle, which suited me fine also.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #35 on:** March 03, 2010, 11:42:38 am »

Yeah, working with your hands over your head and your neck tilted back gets old quick for me.

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #36 on:** March 03, 2010, 12:08:19 pm »

That's called "Tablilla" down here, and most houses use it inside and out. Sheetrock isn't very common, but, an asbestos TYPE product is. Can't spit out the name right now, but, it's exactly like sheets of asbestos but it's really Gypsom. Used inside and out, also.

That Tablilla goes for around $1.00 per 34" run @ 2½ wide, more or less. It's about 7/16" thick.

Larry · « **Reply #37 on:** March 07, 2010, 05:23:32 pm »

I was talking with a friend about putting up my ceiling. He thought a HF Flooring Jack would be a useful tool. He has been using one for three years or so on floors and wouldn’t be without it now. Cautioned me that the tool can exert enough leverage to blow out a wall.

Stopped by HF the other day and picked up one...$21.99 on sale until the 25th and had one of there 20% off coupons. Think I will modify it a bit so I can just clamp it on a ceiling joist. The pushie thing looks like it might like a little modifying also.

It's typical HF crude, made in India, but looks like a very usable tool.

.

Magicman · « **Reply #38 on:** March 07, 2010, 09:56:08 pm »

Use a scrap piece of T&G for the jack to actually push against.

Larry · « **Reply #39 on:** July 29, 2010, 03:00:59 pm »

Completed. Made a few mistakes and learned a lot.

I used a 4 pound urethane deadblow hammer from Harbor Freight to seat every board. A “BoWrench” helped nudge a few of the stubborn boards into place.

The random lengths with biscuits in the end worked well. While I was doing the ceiling I got to visit a pro installing a similar ceiling. They often do biscuits but when the client has deep pockets they set up two routers and end match. They were doing one the day I visited and it defiantly is the best looking...maybe next time.

WDH · « **Reply #40 on:** July 29, 2010, 05:41:25 pm »

Larry,

That sure looks fine! One of a kind, too.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #41 on:** July 30, 2010, 05:53:26 am »

That'll last a long time to come. You did well. I hate working with my arms over my head all day, so you did well for sure.

Magicman · « **Reply #42 on:** July 30, 2010, 08:45:07 am »

Looks very nice. Are you going to seal it or let it weather naturally?

Burlkraft · « **Reply #43 on:** July 30, 2010, 08:49:02 am »

Good Job!

Looks great

Larry · « **Reply #44 on:** July 30, 2010, 01:00:45 pm »

Quote from: Magicman on July 30, 2010, 08:45:07 am

Looks very nice. Are you going to seal it or let it weather naturally?

I pre-finished with an equal mix of BLO/Cabot gloss spar varnish/MS before putting the boards up. That will last for years on a covered porch. I suspect it would only last for one season, or less if exposed to the elements.

WDH · « **Reply #45 on:** July 30, 2010, 06:01:28 pm »

Too bad that I did not take that picture because it would mean that the porch was mine

.

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Author Topic: T & G “V” panel deck ceiling (Read 3968 times)