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Author Topic: This is a Great Web Site!  (Read 3522 times)

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Offline ARKANSAWYER

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This is a Great Web Site!
« on: December 23, 2009, 07:51:12 pm »

  Today I had a need for an answer to a 3ph electrical question.  I typed in the computer and Googled for an answer.  Got to several web sites where you could ask questions and these "very knowing" electricians would answer.  So before I asked my question I searched for like queries.  After reading some of the responces I was afraid to ask them any thing.  These "very knowing" electricians must have been short fused a few times.  Them boys were quick to strip your wires and ground you out quick.  I got out of there most quick and went to some other sites.   They were not much better. 
  Just because a feller does not know every thing and ask a question that a "very knowing" person thinks is trivial it is no call to tear them apart and berate them for their lack in such matters.   
  Well I figured out what I needed to know and got the transformer wired and it works just fine with out letting the smoke out.  But to be able to come to the Forestry Forum where any one can ask a question with out being snipered from the woods and made to feel like a complete fool.  Comming here is like going home and sitting in my chair.  Just DanG. comfortable and a pleasant place to be.

    SO to Jeff and the other Admins thanks for a pleasant place to relax and get info.
ARKANSAWYER

Offline Ernie

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2009, 07:54:58 pm »
I second that in spades.  Everyone was a total newbie at some stage in life.  Too bad sometimes knowlege and experience equate to arrogance and intolerance.
A very wise man once told me . Grand children are great, we should have had them first

Online beenthere

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2009, 07:57:41 pm »
Arky
Thanks for that reminder.  :-X
south central Wisconsin
 It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Offline woodmills1

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2009, 07:58:03 pm »
And have ya gone to the sites where they promise an answer then ya finds they wants the dollar first?


 I support you on your saying this site is the bomb,  OK I mean this site is the best but we have a 22 year old staying with us so this site is the bomb and I mean it, text me :D
James Mills    Lovely wife   collect old tools  vaccuming fool  36 bd ft per hour
 oak paper cutter,   apple jacks   ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family,  LT70 and edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob, did I say free heat machine no oil 7 years

Offline fstedy

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2009, 08:06:12 pm »
 8) 8) 8) Sure learned a lot here. Jeff and the Admins  do a great job.  8) 8) 8)
Timberking B-20   Still learning to make sawdust.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2009, 08:18:06 pm »
Jeff and the Admins do a great job,but so do all of the members too.We all keep the bad posters out.I'm glad some posters decided to quit and move on to other forums or where ever they went.I've been to other forums and was not impressed.Almost like laughing at a person because they do not wear brand name clothes.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor OWB

Offline BcWoodWorks

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2009, 08:25:57 pm »
This forum, is without a doubt the greatest board I've ever been on...and being a 20 year old that grew up with a PC...I've been on a few.

I can say I'm honestly proud that Burlkraft got me started; good people, good info.

The best part is, they don't mind us rookie woodworkers.  :D
Alec - Woodworking rookie, and Private in the United States Army.

"Safety first, impressions last. Remember it." -Swampdonkey

Offline Magicman

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2009, 08:37:14 pm »
And not just Jeff and the Admins.  You guys will take an "old guy off of the street" and treat him like family.   Merry Christmas to my new family of friends...... :)
'98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic/Lombardini

There is much that I need to do, more that I want to do, and less that I can do.

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.

Offline LeeB

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2009, 08:40:23 pm »
Well Dang Arkie, I thought you knew that by now after all these years. You most likely coulda got your info here to start with. This is a great place and I think I'll try to stick around for a whole lot more years.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, Ford 851 tractor, JD 3032 tractor, Husky 346 and 372XP's. !998 and 2006 3/4 Dodge 5.9 Cummins and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline Warbird

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2009, 09:26:48 pm »
SO to Jeff and the other Admins thanks for a pleasant place to relax and get info.

Amen to that!

Offline old joe

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2009, 09:34:55 pm »
I completely agree.  Jeff and the admins are responsible for the tone of this forum but the members also work to make it my favorite place to go.  Thank you all.

Joe
THE NEW YANKEE TIL A NEWER ONE ARRIVES THEN I\'LL BE THE OLD YANKEE

Offline scsmith42

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2009, 10:33:34 pm »
100% agree Arky - thanks for reminding us how fortunate we are to have this place.

Scott

Offline zopi

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2009, 10:50:29 pm »
I spend more time running my mouth here, than any of the other dozen or so forums I am on...This is about the best run, and most well attended site I've ever seen!
Got Wood?
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And lots of junk.

Offline fishpharmer

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2009, 11:02:00 pm »
Amen Arky, the only thing I hate is............


I didn't find it sooner. 8) 8) 8) 8)


Thanks Jeff and Admins.
I built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum.

Offline customsawyer

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2009, 08:42:18 am »
Lets all raise a glass to them that make this place happen. Cheers.

Offline Chris Burchfield

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2009, 08:54:25 am »
Well said by all. Cheers to the forum admin.
Woodmizer LT40SH W/Command Control; 51HP Cat, Memphis TN.

Offline ARKANSAWYER

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2009, 10:29:59 am »

  I just do not get out much.  I live in Eden just outside the Gates of Heaven and it is hard for me to leave here.  Same with the Web.  I go to two or three places and that is pretty much it.  The Sponsors on FF do not really have to worry about their Brand being tied to some poor web site that will reflect badly toward them.   Just like here sometimes I have to leave to realize how good I got it.
  Yes we got it made here.  So much experiance and knowledge from all walks of life and regions of the World and you are not asked for your credit card or PayPal account number.   
   I have met many members and done some Piggy Roast over the years.  Never once have I met anyone and not liked them right away.  Why I have met Yankee's that were quite pleasent and fun to be around.  Though different in may ways we share a like minded course in life.

  ( remember these folks on the left of the screen make this all possible and when you do business with them let them know that you appreciate their support)

                                Remember we are all in this together!
ARKANSAWYER

Offline BcWoodWorks

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2009, 10:38:10 am »

  I just do not get out much.  I live in Eden just outside the Gates of Heaven and it is hard for me to leave here.  Same with the Web.  I go to two or three places and that is pretty much it.  The Sponsors on FF do not really have to worry about their Brand being tied to some poor web site that will reflect badly toward them.   Just like here sometimes I have to leave to realize how good I got it.
  Yes we got it made here.  So much experiance and knowledge from all walks of life and regions of the World and you are not asked for your credit card or PayPal account number.   
   I have met many members and done some Piggy Roast over the years.  Never once have I met anyone and not liked them right away.  Why I have met Yankee's that were quite pleasent and fun to be around.  Though different in may ways we share a like minded course in life.

  ( remember these folks on the left of the screen make this all possible and when you do business with them let them know that you appreciate their support)

                                Remember we are all in this together!

That was better than the Spartan speech.

"This...is...Forestry!"  :D

Well put Ark. The sponsors can always use help too. Times are tough.
Alec - Woodworking rookie, and Private in the United States Army.

"Safety first, impressions last. Remember it." -Swampdonkey

Offline motohed

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2009, 11:37:55 am »
Jeff and the Admins do a great job,but so do all of the members too.We all keep the bad posters out.I'm glad some posters decided to quit and move on to other forums or where ever they went.I've been to other forums and was not impressed.Almost like laughing at a person because they do not wear brand name clothes.

                                    X2 I am glad to have found such a wonderful forum , Thanks to all !
                                   
                                                         Scott

Offline ErikC

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2009, 11:46:13 am »
  I might as well throw in another thank you, I know the admins work hard to keep it this way. We appreciate it. smiley_clapping
Peterson 8" with 33' tracks, JCB 1550 4x4 loader backhoe, several stihl chainsaws

Offline Chris Burchfield

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2009, 11:53:21 am »
I enjoy meeting people. A fraction of which I wouldn't care to see again. But, I was glad I met them as well. This would be a boring world if it were all Chris Burchfields. Amazingly the finest people in the world find there way here.
Woodmizer LT40SH W/Command Control; 51HP Cat, Memphis TN.

Offline SPIKER

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2009, 02:46:08 pm »
Yep I agree lots of good people here:

Just wonder why ARKY didn't ask his question here?   we got lots of people that know more than most even a few with some electrical knowledge... ;)

Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

Offline woodmills1

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2009, 10:09:42 pm »
Yankee's :D :D :D :D

its dem yopers ya gotta watch out for
James Mills    Lovely wife   collect old tools  vaccuming fool  36 bd ft per hour
 oak paper cutter,   apple jacks   ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family,  LT70 and edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob, did I say free heat machine no oil 7 years

Offline Chet

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2009, 01:33:47 am »
 :-\
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the arborist

Offline Lud

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #24 on: December 25, 2009, 07:50:51 am »
I think of the Forum as , probably,  my best friends.  I want to hear what they have to say and I know they'll listen to me with interest.  Like minded folks who like to make sawdust in a lot of different ways.

I don't waste hours and hours on the Net .  A few searches now and then .  Bit of browsing.....but I come to the Forum every day to get recharged  and see what's up.  Then back to the shop and making more dust!  Need to get stuff done!

No other place like the Forum for folks like us.

Thanks again, Jeff.
Simplicity mill, Ford 1957 Golden Jubilee 841 Powermaster, 40x60 bankbarn, left-handed

Offline Dakota

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #25 on: December 25, 2009, 08:06:46 am »
The Forum is like morning coffee, I can't start the day without it.

Dakota
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Offline pigman

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #26 on: December 25, 2009, 08:48:38 am »


its dem yopers ya gotta watch out for
Now James, Chet is my hero. He saved me my ATV from drowning in the river. 8)
Things turn out best for people who make the best of how things turn out.

Offline Mooseherder

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #27 on: December 25, 2009, 09:11:06 am »


its dem yopers ya gotta watch out for
Now James, Chet is my hero. He saved me my ATV from drowning in the river. 8)

Here's living proof. ;)


He also went in for Pete.  :)

Lane Circle Mill Project

Offline Chuck White

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #28 on: December 25, 2009, 01:19:04 pm »
I have to agree with the general consensuous (sp) here, it's the best forum I've ever been on!

Other forums I've been on, if you ask a question (ie "dumb question), they'll be down your throat before you get done typing the post!

We are in this together and I agree, WE ARE FAMILY.   8)

Thanks to all my brothers and sisters out there!
CHUCK - Retired USAF and now a Mobile Sawyer
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I LOVE MY SAWMILL

Online Meadows Miller

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2009, 08:00:47 am »
Gday

Great thread Arky  ;) ;D 8) Ive joined a couple of industry forums since i was about 18 and can honestly say that i lost intrest in them within a month just due to not enough content or the lack of community values :(

Im glad i found this place (HOME  ;) :D ;D 8) ) 18 months ago as its the only forum i visit now  ;) And Like chuck said We Are all Family and thats the way i see it aswell and peoples willingness to welcome new members, help eachover out and share information freely without being smart arses about it to people who want to learn and share abit about themselfs and what they want to do  ;) and being able to ask without worrying about someone  getting inta them about not knowing the answer   ::) other things  i like is that people share alot more about themselfs and seeing Young people and New players in the game Having A Crack which i love to see  ;) ;D 8) Esp young blokes like TY getting his first mill at 16  he reminded me of myself  at his age im proud of the young fella  ;D ;D 8) 8) 8)

Ive managed to have only been pulled up afew times and recive one pm  about my seemingly Exessive use of simleys  :o :) ::)  and there has been afew of you who have jumped in and stood up for me  ;) ;D 8) That reminds me and some of you might have noticed that my posts over the last few days due to somthing been a miss and have lacked my tm smileys and i was thinking of starting a thred  Jeffs Cut Me Off   :o :o just for a laugh ;)  :D :D :D ;D

Those are the things which will see me comeing in everyday for the next 30,40 or 50 years  :o :) ;) :D :D aslong as good lord sees fit to keep me on this earth  ;) ;D 8) 8) 8)

Regards Chris
Jackson Lumber Harvester RMP 50" Manual Circular Mill #132 with Jackson Lumber Harvester Portable Edger, Meadows #2 delux manual circular sawmill & Edger, 1997 International 4700 Flatbed

Offline Jasperfield

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2009, 07:14:54 pm »
Apparently the forest/sawing community is like some other communities, such as blacksmithing, some agriculture, aviation, etc., and tend to pretty well behave themselves.

We don't see everything our board moderators see. I think they contribute quite a bit to  keeping the good attitude of the forum that we enjoy.

On many online news outlets, even business news outlets, the attitudes of several posters/commenters is poor.

We're fortunate that is not the case, here.

Offline rbhunter

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2009, 09:22:43 pm »
This site is great. I can get answers to just about any question and there is enough knowledge here that I find myself wanting to post here rather than other websites. This website is special and unique thanks to Jeff and the others. I also like the way the site is set up much better than anyother website I have visted. I also appreciate the work of the administrators watching that inappropriate material is not posted. Although I find myself wondering what was just sent to the woodshed.
"Said the robin to the sparrow, I wonder why it must be, these anxious human beings rush around and worry so?"
"Said the sparrow to the robin, Friend I think it must be, they have no heavenly father, such as cares for you and me."
author unknown. Used to hang above parents fireplace.

Offline woodmills1

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2009, 05:54:38 pm »
all caps, YOU YELLING praise. :D :D
James Mills    Lovely wife   collect old tools  vaccuming fool  36 bd ft per hour
 oak paper cutter,   apple jacks   ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family,  LT70 and edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob, did I say free heat machine no oil 7 years

Offline ARKANSAWYER

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2009, 08:00:43 pm »
I have been to the Wood Shed a few times and it is not a pretty place.  I talk slow so I can taste my words before I spit them out.  So I guess I should type slower sometimes.
 
ARKANSAWYER

Offline Don K

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2009, 06:02:37 am »
I agree about this being a great place. I knew it when I found it. I log on at least once a day if not 2 or 3. I have met a few of the many members and I consider all of them good friends. Many more I wish to meet. My wife cals them my Woodpecker friends. :D :D ;D

Thanks to all the admins and members that make this such a great place.

Don
Lucky to own a WM LT40HDD35, blessed to have a wife that encouraged me to buy it.     Now that\'s true love!
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Offline Captain

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2009, 06:38:50 am »
Most that visit the Forestry Forum as lurkers do so seeking knowledge about something.  Most who join as members do so because they are impressed by what they see.  Those of us who stay and are active not only enjoy the information exchange and depth of knowledge the Forestry Forum provides, but also the rich differences in culture, ideas, and personalities that make up the wit and wisdom of the membership, young and old alike. 

The Forestry Forum is my daily (sometimes 3-4 times daily) dose of friendship, news, training, comraderie, enlightenment, and humor.  I have a cup of coffee with you in the morning, and often a visit over a beer at night.  I've met members from around the United States and the world who have welcomed me into their homes like they knew me their entire lives, and I hope to meet many, many more.

Thanks Jeff, for your vision and for being the family patriarch.  Thanks Admins for your guidance and all of your volunteered time.  Thanks to everybody for sharing your lives and experiences, your questions and answers, your thoughts and theories, your problems and your solutions.

This is a great website.

Captain

Offline Warbird

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #36 on: December 31, 2009, 11:43:03 am »
Well said, Captain!  I'm sipping on my first cup of coffee now and seem to have a morning ritual of having morning coffee with you guys.  Never really considered that this is what I was doing but it is!

Offline Raider Bill

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2009, 12:05:07 pm »
I'm just glad you guys will have me not being a logger, forester, mill owner and all.  I start my day reading the new posts while having my coffee. I have sure learned a lot here over the 3 years I've been a member.
Besides the knowledge I get I look forward to hearing the opinions, thoughts and concerns from everyone here.

Thanks everyone!
Kubota L-4200, Chainsaw, Bush Hog, and 85 acres of trees I'm not sure what to do with but I sure do have fun!
The First 40 years of childhood is always the hardest.

Offline ErikC

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #38 on: December 31, 2009, 12:06:01 pm »
  Having my second or third cup as we speak.... :)
Peterson 8" with 33' tracks, JCB 1550 4x4 loader backhoe, several stihl chainsaws

Offline pineywoods

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2009, 12:24:16 pm »
I never thought about so many guys having morning coffee while reading all the new posts. I do just that almost every morning. Apparently many of you do the same. I read every post of every forum. Now I will probably never build a timber frame house, and I'm not into hot-rodding chainsaws, but it's surprising how much I learn from those forums anyway. If nothing else, I feel like I get to know the people who post there, and that in itself is a good thing. Only thing better is meeting forestyforum members in person, which I have done a little of and hope to meet and visit with more. Thanks to Jeff and the admins for making this place such a bleessing, and also thanks to the many members who contribute so much.. How else would I know about log lot problems if it weren't for Bibby??
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  012, 028, 029, Ms390

Offline Norm

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #40 on: December 31, 2009, 12:34:51 pm »
I have the same routine as most, get up help do dishes and then drink my cup of coffee while reading the posts here. I have long compared it to going to the local coffee shop but it's better because I can do so at my leisure without the drive.

I do read all of the forums here, some not everyday but most I do. I have learned so much it's amazing the depth of our members knowledge.
WM LT30HDD-E25

Offline Jeff

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #41 on: December 31, 2009, 09:49:19 pm »
Hey Thanks everybody and Happy New Year. I think its a pretty good Website too. Because of all of you.  :)
The farther backward you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see. Winston Churchill.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Bottle Washer.

Offline DanG

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #42 on: December 31, 2009, 11:34:51 pm »
Well, I'm a relatively "new guy", since I've only made this my Internet home for a bit over eight years.  I am constantly amazed by the depth of knowledge that is shared by the members here, both old and new.  I find myself frequently prefacing some statement with, "I know y'all get tired of me talking about the Forestry Forum, but...", and getting the response, "Oh no, you tell us so many great things you've learned there!"  I don't understand why they don't just join up and share with us. ::) ???

Jeff, I know you didn't intend for this thing to get to this level, and never dreamed that it would, but I must say that you have done a masterful job of guiding it to this point.  I well remember the days when you refused to take any kind of donation, even though it was costing you plenty of cash from your rather shallow pockets.  That, IMHO, is the mark of a truly honest man with a strong moral code, and one who knows the value of true independance.  Most of us know that this forum has long outgrown what a man of ordinary means can support out of his own pocket, and have seen the progression from that stalwart stance at the beginning to the recruitment of sponsors and the reluctant acceptance of donations.  Through all of this, however, you have maintained the moral code that you set out with, and with the help of your very able staff of voluntary Administrators, you have enforced it, for the betterment of all of us.

Having regular contact with you and some of the Admins, I'm fully aware of the aggravations that come with the territory.  There are times when all of you seem to be near the end of your rope, but you always come through and rebound even stronger than before.

And yes, it is because of the Membership that this is such a great website, but it is because of you and the Admins that we have such a great Membership. ;)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Offline BcWoodWorks

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #43 on: January 01, 2010, 03:40:52 am »
Well, I'm a relatively "new guy", since I've only made this my Internet home for a bit over eight years.

Dan, you aren't being modest again are you?  ;D

This forum, is by far one of the best admin'ed forums on the World Wide Web. Go ahead, find a better one...I'll kiss my own DanG butt and call myself Charlie.
Alec - Woodworking rookie, and Private in the United States Army.

"Safety first, impressions last. Remember it." -Swampdonkey

Offline Magicman

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #44 on: January 01, 2010, 09:40:54 am »
Even though a lot of "trees" have grown up under my name, I consider myself a newcomer here.  Regrettably, I lurked for too many years.  I thank you for accepting me and for making me feel welcome.... :)

I thank you guys, Jeff, and the Admins for being who/what you are.....and making Forestry Forum what it is.
'98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic/Lombardini

There is much that I need to do, more that I want to do, and less that I can do.

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.

Offline Tim/South

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Re: This is a Great Web Site!
« Reply #45 on: January 01, 2010, 10:24:03 pm »
This is a wonderful site, well Administered and Moderated.
I am the senior moderator on a very large horse site. I can testify that keeping any forum running smoothly is a full time job. It will never cease to amaze me at the amount of spam and nasty junk a forum is hit with. That industry is relentless.

If I had not found this forum I probably would have never have learned to saw.
Dad and I had bought the mill (used LT 40 Manual) and never really got into sawing due to his failing joints. It and a new Morgan edger sat stored and covered in the hay barn for 4 years. Dad loved the mill but never was able to run it himself and did not want me learning to operate with out him here.
After the Good Lord called him home I decided to set it up.
I did have a friend with an older LT 40 and that helped.
I have learned tips on band sharpening, heart check, stickering, dealing with customers and about any aspect of the business a person could imagine.

One of the huge advantages this forum has is members who are not afraid of work, members who have been there and done that. There are not any teens trying to step in with unproven theories. Members keep their ego's in check and are always willing to offer an opinion based on their experience and insight.

Members will always be the back bone of any online community. At the top of any backbone there is an attached head.
Luckily on this forum that head also comes with a brain.
Tipping my hat to all of those who keep this a welcome place to visit.

 


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