New SKidder purchase

[CX3]

Well I am going to buy another skidder.  I like small machines that I can pull with a pickup.  I have found a JD 440 powershift.  Tight machine, fair enough rubber, shifts good, no leaks, no blowby.  It needs cleaned up and I would say its as old as a 440 can get.  It does have later model engine and rebuilt tranny.  11500 for this one. 

Tree farmer c5d.  Good matching tires, cable, 1986 model, looks good in pics, standard shift, 353 detroit, I have not personally looked yet, supposed to be nice tight machine.  12500. 

These are the only two I can find that I can afford to go get.  The JD is much older skidder and I know the ol boy who owns it now.  They use it for smaller gigs.  I know nothing of tree farmer, and no experience with them .  I want your opinion on which skidder I should have more interest in, with your answer being derived from price, parts accessibility, age of machine, etc?  When it comes to these skidders I am still a rook.  Thanks alot.

[wi woodcutter]

I like the John Deere's they seems to be a good all around machine. It seems to be what everyone has around here. My dad had several of them. You should be able to get parts fairly easily for the Deere.

I don't know much about Tree Farmers, but I have heard that people like them a lot.

If it was my money I would look at the Deere.    

[ford62783]

i would say both can be good machines if it was my money i would look at the tree farmer they r popular and decently easy to find parts my uncle has a 79 tree farmer and hasnt had many problems typical breakdowns but all in all a tugh and rugged machine also ive heard from guys who owned deere 440 and 540 that they dnt take steep hills as well as a tree farmer and that isnt a bad price for the machine

[barbender]

Tree farmers tend to be more basic, from what I hear easier to work on and way cheaper for parts. I think the John deere machines are laid out better, nicer to run, but you pay for it when something breaks.

[Stephen Alford]

Hey cx3, just wanted to say welcome. They are both good machines.  If you were to put a pressure washer to em tells alot about their history. The tree farmer will accept alot of chev parts. Should keep a set of filters ahead .  You will notice a difference between the two when push comes to shove. 

[Frickman]

I have one of each, a John Deere 440B skidder and a Tree Farmer C5D forwarder. The Deere is the best machine ever put in the woods. The Tree Farmer is by far the worst. Yes, parts are cheap and easy to get for a Tree Farmer. I should know, I've  bought plenty of them. So has everyone else I know who has had one. The Deere parts are expensive, and you usually have to get them from Deere. You don't have to buy as many of them though.

I have owned and/or operated all the major brands of logging equipment over the years. There is a reason why John Deere's are so popular. They're the best of the best.

[wi woodcutter]

I have owned and/or operated all the major brands of logging equipment over the years. There is a reason why John Deere's are so popular. They're the best of the best.

Yup.

The same could be said about Deere's farm and construction equipment.

[tughill]

An early 440 would have to be about brand new, or at least kept by a little old lady and only driven on sunday, to be worth more than 10k$ around here, especially in the current economy.

I say buy the deere if you can get it for 5-6k$...that is what it's worth in decent running condition.

[Twig farmer]

Hi, first post here...

First, if you are pulling a C5D Tree Farmer with a pick-up, you're a madman. Mine weighs in around 16,000 pounds with the chains on. Figure the trailer is another 5K pounds...you're pulling 21K off the bumper...nuts.

Second, Deere is the caddy of skidders, for sure.

Third, saying a tree farmer is always breaking and the worst machine in the woods is silly. I've owned mine since 1996, and it's been 100% stone reliable. The poster above has a forwarder, and those are a LOT more complicated than a skidder. Maybe that's why he has a bad opinion of them.

I know I dearly LOVE my twig farmer, but mine has a Deutz 5 cyl, not the noisemaker Detroit. It's as simple and rugged as an anvil. And it will pull the 440 Deere AND a twitch if you want it to.

If you are going to pull it with a pickup, and you aren't going to try hauling 4 thousand feet of oak at a twitch, the Deere is a fine machine. Fast, nimble as a go-cart.

The tree farmer is a crab walker, the axles don't lock in and out like the deere...it takes a 3 point turn where the Deere will just spin around like a 2 dollar hooker in a donkey show south of the border. But the Tree farmer is far cheaper to own long term....and will out pull the deere hands down....and on hills there's no comparing them...the deere will scare you while the farmer will love it.

Good luck.

[Mark K]

Welcome to the forum. How does that Deutz run in hot weather. We have 3 SAME tractors on our farm, not a bit of trouble. I looked at a C5D a few years back but my log buyer says they can't take hot humid days. I own a 225 Timberjack with a 353, probably about the same size. I know mine weighs 7 tons without chains. I haul mine with a 3/4 ton Dodge with a 20k gooseneck trailer. Just got to be careful what your doing and dont set any speed records .

[hollywoodmfg]

440 is a great skidder but i dont like the powershift. they are nice till they quit.as far as hills dont really have any probluems with mine. but i think the simpleness of the tree farmer would be the way to go.

[bill m]

I know mine weighs 7 tons without chains. I haul mine with a 3/4 ton Dodge with a 20k gooseneck trailer. Just got to be careful what your doing and dont set any speed records .

So your hauling about 9 ton with a truck that weighs about 3 ton?

[Twig farmer]

Welcome to the forum. How does that Deutz run in hot weather.

Thanks.
I never had any issues. I give up LONG before it ever complains. You can't kill them, the log buyer is blowing smoke.
You gotta LOVE not having a cooling system to fail and warp the head...and repair...

[Mark K]

You use your head and plan routes accordingly. I have hauled my skidder with this setup for the past 10 years. Been through many road blocks, they look at my DOT numbers and my license. Haven't been questioned yet, just use your head and dont do anything stupid.

Twig farmer- I thought so but I dont see many of them around here with the deutz, most have the Detriot. I've never had a problem with our SAME's even on the hotest days. More of a problem during the winter because they don't run hot enough and start blowing fuel.

[Bobus2003]

I have a '69 JD440 with a  mid '90's 4045T Powertech Engine and I love it.. Have ran a few other skidders (Clark, Massy Ferguson, TJ, CanCar, International, CAT) and I wouldn't take any of them over my 440.. She's old but reliable.. Does every thing i ask of her.. She'll winch herself rightover if i'll let it (Not uncommon on hard pulls to be lifting the front axle off the ground).. And thats with Loaded Tires and Chains on all four. She can be a little tippy on some of the steeper hills (If you side hill) but What skidder isn't gonna be and the loaded tires help out alot with stability

I tow the 440 around the Black Hills on a 32' 20K lbs GN trailer behind my '06 F350 4x4 CC.. Used to Haul it behind my '99 F250.. Just don't be stupid

[Twig farmer]

Boy, the New Hampshire DOT would SLOW ROAST me over an open flame if they saw me pulling my Twiggy with a pick-up, even with a good gooseneck...They bust us here for hauling a cord of green wood on a ton dump....over-weight...it's why I have an F550 4x4....I'm legal 9 times out of 10...and I still wouldn't dare haul my skidder....they are re-incarnated Gestapo here..

[Bobus2003]

I'm Lookin at buying a '06 F550 Right now.. It combined with my GN trailer my GCWR would be way over sufficiant to haul my skidder..

[Twig farmer]

I agree, the 440A/B is fine...and I know my F550 can haul my C5D around fine...it's the DOT that thinks it's a bad idea..

[thumper]

bobus,, is your f350 a single wheel and trailer a dual wheel set up?  i have the same skidder (11000)lbs without chains, and a 06 gmc 3500 4x4 single wheel.  i have seen alot of guys haul this same scene but with a dual wheel truck.. did you try this on snow/ice?  i know,,, talk about pushing it..  thanks

[Bobus2003]

bobus,, is your f350 a single wheel and trailer a dual wheel set up?  i have the same skidder (11000)lbs without chains, and a 06 gmc 3500 4x4 single wheel.  i have seen alot of guys haul this same scene but with a dual wheel truck.. did you try this on snow/ice?  i know,,, talk about pushing it..  thanks

Yeah My F350 is a Single Rear Wheel, and my Trailer is Tandam Axle with Duals.. Yeah I haul it whenever/Where Ever Year round. I also Haul my JD 550 Dozer same way (Hauled it Over to Gillette Wyoming Last Fall through 2 Ports of Entry and Nothing was ever Said too me)

[ridge logger]

It all depends what you want to use and what you are use to running.I run a old timber jack cable skidder and just love it ,it has a detroit in it and has been a very good reliable motor ,Ithink that the tree farmer would be a better choice because parts are cheaper and the machine is proably easier to work on . I'm not knocking john deere but a old logger told me that when john deere bought out timber jack that they finally got them a good skidder .

[MaineLogger]

I agree with ridge logger, start looking at Timberjacks.

[Twig farmer]

That's just crazy talk. You eat some red tide clams or somethin?

[MaineLogger]

That's funny,my wife digs clams.Sometimes I can expirience two red tides at the same,it's bad to eat red tide clams! 

[mr_buff35]

Hi everyone, I just recently purchased a "75 Franklin grapple/winch skidder" (i think).  I am not so positive of what it is.  I think i need to change the fluids out, it has been about 3 years or so since shes seen the timber.  I think it has a 3 cyc Detroit in her which does make its own unique racket.   I of course realize Franklin TreeFarmer is no more, which makes it considerably more difficult to locate any good information pertaining to this skidder.  I would love any info or help about naming and getting this old girl rockin again.  Photos coming sooooon

[Twig farmer]

Hi everyone, I just recently purchased a "75 Franklin grapple/winch skidder" (i think).  I am not so positive of what it is.  I think i need to change the fluids out, it has been about 3 years or so since shes seen the timber.  I think it has a 3 cyc Detroit in her which does make its own unique racket.   I of course realize Franklin TreeFarmer is no more, which makes it considerably more difficult to locate any good information pertaining to this skidder.  I would love any info or help about naming and getting this old girl rockin again.  Photos coming sooooon

\Post up a few pictures and a VIN.

[mr_buff35]

I have pictures under my profile, im not very good at getting them to post.  As far as a vin goes i think maybe  4887-8-233282-15-6 something to that effect, there could be some variance in a number or two.  I think it might be a C-5 Franklin, once again not so sure.

[hollywoodmfg]

not a pro but it looks like an s8 international ??

[donny hochstetler]

from my experiance with franklins, i would say its not a franklin, i would say either a tree farmer   international or some other make,    it looks like it should pull a lot of wood yet, don"t forget, right side up works best for those grapples

[thumper]

tree farmer c5 and a weird looking one..

[nedly05]

We have a C-5 tree farmer. I dont know what year it is, but its a tough old rig, it has the 3-53 detroit. I'm not a really experienced skidder operator so I cant compare it to other brands, but it has done everything I have ever asked of it. As for as moving it, I use my tandem and 20 ton tag. I'm not much for moving equipment with small trucks that arent in the "compact" bracket. I know a lot of guys do it, and I will move my 3 ton excavator or 55 HP tractor with my pickup, but I prefer to use the DRW 1 ton dump even for that stuff.

[Twig farmer]

Boy. That does look like an older Frankie dual arch set up on an International skidder...with the grapple off an old timberjack om maybe an old Clark..
But whatever it is, it looks like it's a capable machine.

[thecfarm]

You have them in your gallery,that's the hard part.

 



Here's a picture of the beast.
Just click on to an album or a thumbnail picture in your gallery,picture will get bigger,scroll down,you will see a line that says in green,Click here to copy this photo code etc..... ,it will ask are you sure,say yes and that's all there is to it.I like to hit the enter key a few times to bring the picture down,especially if posting more than one picture.it's good to leave some "white" between the pictures.You can preview all this too,than make corrections as you go.

[thumper]

does the id tag say can-car on it?

[mr_buff35]

Thanks a lot so far fellas, I am getting closer to figuring it out. 
I havent really found a tag on it except for where the ROPS is in the cab.  It reads:  Rollover Protective Structures
Tube-Lok Products
on a... C-5.
608393
G8      837
On the bottom of front section (the whole front half) at the very back reads 10-11744 C8F
The back of the Grapple however, right at the pivot point coming down from the upper assembly to the clam says "Timber Jack".
This is all leading me to believe that it has a Timber Jack Grapple, a Gearmatic 19 winch, on a C-5 tree farmer framing.  So how do i go about finding the fluid types and capacities for the engine, transmission, hydraulics, wheel hubs, and transfer cases?

[saltydog]

i own a jd 440b nice quick  but ignorant to work on parts are expensive my tree farmer c5 has put up over 450 cords of wood (pulp and logs) in 4 weeks time  its a 1974 model  very few repairs depends on whos running them  funny tree farmer and timberjack diffs planetarys transmissons interchange on c5s and 230s  there isnt much differance tree farmers are the very easiest machines to work on i can pull trans and change clutch in woods in 2 hrs mine is very tough i run 23 26 tires with duals in wet ground  deutz motors are awsome ive seen them with 25000 hrs with no bottom work ever done on them just new top ends and most have good hood loaders its all in the operator you can break anything if you cowboy it

[mad murdock]

I have never run a 440, have run a lot of JD crawlers, JD builds good machines.  I have run Tree Farmer, Clarke, Gafner, and currently own a Garrett. If I had a choice between a TF w/Detroit 353 and a JD 440, I would take the 440, because it would be easier on the operator in many ways, If I had a choice between a C5 w/Deutz, and a JD 440, that is a no-brainer, I would take the TF w/Deutz ANY day, that is the best combo ever put in the woods, IMHO.  The Deutz is quiet, and stone reliable, and very easy on the pocketbook, as well as a awesome fuel mizer.  The C5 is much more stable in uneven ground, and will pull more than a 440. When it comes to pushing brush or doing a bit of road scraping, the C5 is built so tough, it is hard to hurt it, the JD on the other hand, has a light duty blade, and frame, that will crack if you do lots of pushing with it, unless it has been highly modified by someone down the road.

[arojay]

These kinds of questions can turn into a Ford/Chevy thing pretty quick.  I can only address the 440B.  I have had mine for quite a while.  It is a powershift.  I have also run a couple of syncro-range machines.  Parts can be expensive and some things are hard to get.  I had to replace the transmission pump a couple of years ago and Deere doesn't have one.  It took me a couple of weeks to find a used one from a wrecker.  On the upside the machine is generally reliable.  As is often the case, most of the things I have had trouble with turned out to be the result of someone elses poor repair.  Other than standard investigation, some things I would look at are shifting, does it make all of the shifts?  Shifting can be a little sharp as it is a powershift with no torque converter.  Does it steer smoothly from lock to lock?  Does the blade lift smoothly while steering?  Lift the machine off the ground with the blade while observing the front axle for play in the cradle.  The blades do seem to be prone to cracking on these machines I spend a little time welding on mine from time to time but the same can be said for other brands.  Blades tend to be used for more than stacking logs.  I have a snow blade made from a grader moldboard that I use for roadbuilding as much as snow plowing.  That is heavier use than intended.

As for pulling with a pick-up, I hope you mean on a trailer!!  I actually have pulled the skidder with the truck a short distance, but the reverse is more to my liking. 



   

[treefarmer87]

there is a 1970s model 440 up the road from my house in great shape for $9000 its got a brand new motor in it with less than 20 hours on it i was either gonna get it or the c5 it is a hard decision

[bushmechanic]

mr_buff35 that is some piece of work you got there.Man there is some time gone into that machine and it looks like there is many donors to the unit.From what I can see it has parts of an S8 International(rear half of machine and front axle),parts of a Tree Farmer(cab,dash and blade) and according to you Timberjack donated the grapple arch.As for the fluid types it is simple for that machine,80w-90 for rear ends,planetaries,transfer case and transmission.The engine calls for number30 engine oil but most people use 15w-40 diesel engine oil.As for the hydraulics a good AW32 hydraulic oil will do just fine unless you use it in a warm enviroment then you may look at a AW48 or AW68.Good luck with the Interjacknational Tree Farmer machine.

[aksawyer]

If you are learning to do repairs as you run your machine,you will want the Tree Farmer much easier to work on.Parts are available at the local salvage yard in the way of chevy large trucks(60-65)And I know,from bad experiances,to stay away from the J.D. A models with the auto trannys that *DanG pin in the tranny is always breaking.Aksawyer

[thumper]

If you are learning to do repairs as you run your machine,you will want the Tree Farmer much easier to work on.Parts are available at the local salvage yard in the way of chevy large trucks(60-65)And I know,from bad experiances,to stay away from the J.D. A models with the auto trannys that *DanG pin in the tranny is always breaking.Aksawyer

wich pin is this? what happens when it breaks?

[Bobus2003]

If you are learning to do repairs as you run your machine,you will want the Tree Farmer much easier to work on.Parts are available at the local salvage yard in the way of chevy large trucks(60-65)And I know,from bad experiances,to stay away from the J.D. A models with the auto trannys that *DanG pin in the tranny is always breaking.Aksawyer

When you say Auto, you mean the Powershift? My Brother had one of them and it had a hift Shaft that kept bending, preventing it from shifting.. Kinda a pain in the rear but not hard too fix.. and having  2 extra parts skidders is handy

[mr_buff35]

Thanks soooo much for the help so far!!! Ive got the oil changed out of her for the first time, and instead of just having around 3 gallons (10.5 quarts) five gallons came out   So ive decided to run it for about another half hr, and clean her out again.  The oil wasnt very viscose, and seemed very watered down.  She did sit for about three years, so im soo hoping that it is just condensation build up over that time.  As far as the hydraulic goes, im worried about under/overfill of the capacity, because there is no dipstick, or fill to marker.  Anyone got any advice on this one?

[stonebroke]

first stepis to drain it and see how much comes out. There must be some way to measure it. never knew a hyd. system yet that never leaked.

Stonebroke