Land survey costs

[Woolywolf]

Have any of you had a survey done on your forestland in the past? I'm trying to get a general idea of what the cost associated with it might be. My grandmother owns about a 150 acres of forestland, and I checked at the county courthouse and unfortunately no surveys have been done for the property in the past.  The boundary lines have been neglected ever since my grandfather (who took care of the land) died about twenty years ago. All I have to go off of now is the county tax maps that show property lines, a few iron stakes, some old barb wire fences, aerial photos, and my silva ranger compass.   

The problem is that several deer stands (not ours) have showed up on our property (unfortunately her property isn't posted) and part of the property will probably be harvested in upcoming years, so having boundaries marked and posted is and will be needed. I am certain I know where many boundaries lines are, but other lines run and turn through thickets so thick that my machette is afraid to go through them, and parts of other lines run through swamps.

Any ideas on what a survey might cost? 

[Black_Bear]

Can't help you with the cost estimate, but here is a link to surveyors in NC. I'd try to find a surveyor who knows the local history and/or has surveyed abutting parcels. He/she should be able to give you a cost estimate or cost range. 

NC is not a mandatory recording state. A survey performed in the area may not be in the public record. Maybe a neighbor(s) has a survey plat at their home?   

http://www.ncsurveyors.com/page_ncss_findasurveyor.php?search_session=0

[Jasperfield]

I'm a Professional Surveyor in NC.

Here in the higher Western Counties you can expect costs to be about $125/hr field time (Portal to Portal for two persons). Research, Analysis, & Mapping will be about $90/hr.

I would estimate about $10,000-$12,000.

Since you mentioned swamps, you're down on the Eastern end of the state where you may expect these rates to be about 20% lower.

[Magicman]

but other lines run and turn through thickets so thick that my machette is afraid to go through them, and parts of other lines run through swamps.

Very likely a surveyor would have to chop through those thickets, and charge you for doing it.

During the Winter, I do all that I can to maintain property lines.  This includes clearing walkways through briers and painting trees, etc. along old fence rows.  After you get the property lines cleared, you can usually plot a straight line between known benchmarks.  In my situation, I've gradually re-established my property lines myself.

If posting is necessary, then get that done also.  Issue written notices to the known tresspassers.  Let them know that the next step will be "legal".

[Black_Bear]

I have a feeling Jasperfields numbers are not what Woolywolf wanted to see.

I don't personally know Jasperfield, but I'd be willing to bet the product would be professionally done and shortcuts would not be taken. I like the rates; too many surveyors give away their product, especially in tougher economic times.

 

[paulpieter]

Agree with magicman. Do as much of the reconnaissance work beforehand. This should save bundles. Draw a rough map showing all evidence for the surveyor to work from. Also mark the evidence in the field with paint or flagging tape. Even the bits of barb-wire fence, sometimes that is all there is. Also cut the property lines, suggest that machetes are for the novitiates. Try a good brushcutter (Stihl or Husqvarna), you will recover the cost in savings by the time you are done.

[hokie97]

We just had a farm done and the cost was about $70 ac, but most of the guys around here are pretty hungry right now, so you may find someone to work for less.  Of course they may be less then diliget too!  Try talking to your neighbors about the boundries as well.  If you can get a good idea of where the line is, or argree on where you will harvest up to you could avoid some of the costs up front.  Old deeds may give you a good starting point too.  Rocks that I would have never seen become very obvious when you have the deed in hand!

[Woolywolf]

Thanks for the info everybody. It looks like it would probably be in the $7,000 range at least, which are numbers that, like Black_bear said, I didn't want to see. I don't think a survey would be a feasible option right now. Although my grandma and I have been to the courthouse a couple of times to find maps and some recent deeds, we should probably go back and search through old deeds from past ownership to see if they're more descriptive about the boundaries. I think the only option at this point is for us to reestablish the lines that we're confident on ourselves, and keep working on the one's we aren't.

 

[Stan snider]

In this day and age when GPS can put you within a very few inches anywhere on this planet $70 per acre seems out of this world or did that include clearing the right of way? Here all records generated by a survey are proprietary and surveyors aren't known for helping each other out or divulging more than is essential to their client even though the information was generated on the clients ticket.It seems a peculiar way of verifying PUBLIC records.         Woolywolf; Are the descriptions in section, township and range or metes and bounds?  Metes and bounds uses trees, rocks, creeks, ridges etc for markers. Stan

[Magicman]

I think the only option at this point is for us to reestablish the lines that we're confident on ourselves, and keep working on the one's we aren't.

I think that you will be surprised/pleased with how much of the boundries that you can recover.  BUT, when you need a Land Surveyor, then that's what you need.....No substitute.....Same with a Registered Forester.   Good luck...

[maple flats]

I have had forested properties surveyed in the past. There is a huge variation on costs. Have adjoining properties been done, how long has the deed been in one name, how many pieces have been broken off, is it a square or rectangle or is it real complicated, do the deed descriptions give land marks that still exist, and many other variables. If it is a simple survey it might be half that, if real screwey it might be well over that figure. Another thing, is it all 1 deed or a group of many. There might be others I am not thinking of.
However, do start what you can to make it easier for a surveyor, Everything you do to make his job easier will save you $, however be careful not to permanently mark the trees as an indication of the line. I do not know about about your state but in NY you must be a surveyor to mark the trees permanently. You can however put temp marks where you think it is or to point out fences and such so they can find them quicker. If you think you have a good idea where a line goes by all means open a trail. In one of my surveys the surveyor did not have to actually follow the line right on the line. I had a trail opened that proved to be about 20' inside my line. He surveyed along that and then just went out the 20' or whatever it was to set the iron pin.
After you get the survey done I suggest you cut pieces of PVC pipe to slide over the survey pins, this makes them show up much easier later on. On one survey some sections were so thick that I had the surveyor set a pin every 150' along the line and then I slid PVC pipe over each. The line can now be seen or found easily. After the survey by all means post it. Timber theft is easier to prevent than to collect on or prosecute later. Some loggers will go over a line knowingly but most will not. These loggers could come from across the line from any neighbor. The more valuable the timber the greater the temptation for them to "innocently cross the line" I find it hard to believe how many people never really know where the line is.
Good luck.

[Magicman]

What a great idea using PVC pipe over the pins !!!   I'll be slipping pipe when I walk my lines after deer season.

[stonebroke]

pounding in a t post and painting it orange also works

Stonebroke

[SwampDonkey]

The folks hired a local surveyor here. He used GPS with a base for corrections set up in the field. We had to survey almost 300 acres, one side didn't need to be because it was on the international boundary between NB and Maine. The surveyor came along with a bushman to brush the line and blaze property trees. We did this in the spring before leaf out so it was quick to spot out the lines. We were done the whole farm by 3:30 in the afternoon. Cost around $750. This surveyor does work for a timber company 3 -4 days a week, keeping their lines fresh and new lines when they buy ground. So his costs are lot more reasonable than many. If he charged those rates I'm seeing in here, he'd be starving. Timber companies are about the cheapest landowners because they are used to doing things on large volumes. Anyway, I went in a week later and painted all the blazed trees with a brush and paint can in hand with red paint.  I did my own land a few years before. That was even easier, since only one line had to be checked and it already had an old survey with the spotted trees. I just flagged everything and let him walk around it. Wasn't thick brush, could see several yards ahead. I later brushed it better and painted it to. Gonna paint it again this spring. I also have pressure treated posts on the corners. Front two are on road edge, back two on international boundary with Maine. I think we paid around $700 for that lot to. One line he had to follow my trace with a survey, since it was a parcel taken off the main farm, so the line was where we said it was since we owned both sides. That side line followed closely to a spruce plantation and field edge. The other part was sold and I doubt anyone will ever paint it again for a long time. The blazes are about all healed up. I know the guy that bought it, so unless he hires it done, it won't be done.

[Stan snider]

Thats more the range what I was thinking it was worth than the  rates quoted earlier. Technology has raised the price of a survey around here it sees and that is backwards. My Dad told me his Dad (dead before my time) used a method of a plumbline at a certain time of day near the equinoxes to establish East West lines correcting for longitude. there are a lot of old methods that work in every field that have fallen out of favor.  Knowing how to do that would be handy. Anyone know how that works? Stan

[Raider Bill]

Around my Tenn prop I notice differnt red paint marks on trees,
single line, double line triple line, X's X's with slash, O's I suppose they all mean something differnt anyone know?

To me it appears that whoever did it just followed the path of least resisteance as the zig zag a bit around had to get through places.

[jim king]

The costs of everything up there in the States just amaze and stun me. 

Two or three years ago I had a survey done on several thousand acres and it took about two weeks without coming back to town or to camp.  Including food, transport , surveyors , materials and helpers I think the cost was in the area of $3,000.

[tughill]

Jasperfield,
You are saying that 150 acre survey, would take 100 hours of field and research time?  At 125$ an hour that's what it sounds like.  Seems awful high to me.

A good source of information and maps is the Farm service agency (USDA), soil and water conservation office, or whatever the local government bureau that deals with farmers is.

When I bought my farm, luckily, no survey was required, and it is laid out nearly square with respect to north-south-east-west.  So armed with my garmin etrex GPS and some coordinates from the FSA, as well as aerial photos from google maps, and terra server, I found all of my boundaries within 3-4 hours, most already had some old fence and/or fenceposts, even in the woodlot.  Note that this was just shy of 300 acres.  I cross checked all of these against the rods and chains and coordinates from my deed, and everything was within a few feet.  Those few feet are mostly covered with brush (hawthorne) so not worth messing with to me.

Another fun fact I found was that the tax parcel maps, are not necessarily right or even close to right, they are only for tax purposes.

I think there is a lot of information available, and the average person can find property boundaries with a bit of research fairly easily, although every situation is unique, and it won't be legal or official as with a licensed surveyor.

[Stan snider]

Tughill you have it figured out.Surveyors like to claim to being extremely accurate but two surveys will arrive at slightly differing points. It is easy to confuse the accuracy needed in a high value urban settings with what is needed to be fair with neighbors in a timber sale or other ag land. Treating your neighbors generously will pay dividends for generations. You can buy something you don't need. If a survey is needed for financing you may be stuck. Ag bankers often let this slide. If not they either are not confident in their ability or yours, or they are going to sell the mortgage. New regulations are probably going to effect this. Big Brother is GROWING!!  Gotta go feed more cows.. Stan

[dsgsr]

I was lucky, A Survey had been done on the property I bought and Iron pins had been placed on most lines corners. It had been many yrs. since the lines had been cut/opened so I got a http://www.mainetechnicalsource.com/page8.html   Suunto KB14 compass. Made myself a Jacobs staff ( A wooden dowel or walking stick) Mine was a 1"X 5' hardwood  dowel. I drilled a hole in the center and inserted a 1/4" X 20 X 1" threaded Stainless bolt with the head cut off and threaded that into the bottom of the compass (which has a threaded 1/4 X 20 hole made in the bottom of it). I then found out the Declination of my area (which you must determine first before taking any azimuth reading) from http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmodels/Declination.jsp  Then I went to work cutting the lines open. If anyone is interested in what or how I did this you can PM me.
This cuts down on a lot of the work the Surveyor must do (but they wont tell you this)


David

[Jasperfield]

The estimated costs are for the mountains, the high mountains. And, no, not all of the time is field time. No two surveys are alike, nor are the descriptions, titles, field evidence, etc. We spend as much time, sometimes more, performing analysis on adjoining descriptions & titles as we do on the instant tract.

Competent surveyors don't just claim to be accurate; They are very accurate, and their work is very precise.

In October I finished a survey on 63 acres, which took almost a month to perform, analize, and map. It was quite complex. That survey cost almost three times the "general" figure I mentioned here earlier, and my the client was tickled to death. I effectively "found" his family's land that had been "lost" so-to-speak.

I, like many surveyors, don't pursue run-of-the-mill projects. We are not price competitive and we perform boundary surveys only. No construction surveys, loan surveys, or so forth. We provide a narrow range of very specific services. We're good at it and charge accordingly. Surveying is a profession in NC. It is not a trade.

[SwampDonkey]

It may be a profession, but so isn't forestry. I know quite a few foresters who studied surveying as well as engineering, they are called Forest Engineers.  Back when George Miller studied forestry there was no such program as Forest Engineering, but he also studied surveying and engineering. He was a cousin to my grandmother and became chief forester for New Brunswick. He is one of many honored in the Lumberman's Museum in Boeistown, NB.

[Black_Bear]

Concerning surveying in forestry, a forest engineer knows how to lay out a new truck road with proper drainage, turning radii, etc. And how often does that really happen these days? My degree is in Forest Engineering, which is now titled Forest Operations at UMaine. I've laid out 3 roads since I've graduated in 2006 and the most important part of it was sizing the culverts correctly. No transits or total stations needed. Most of my time is in performing normal forestry calcs, writing plans, making sure the skidders stay out of the streams, etc.

The general public really has no idea of the amount of work needed for most boundary surveys. They see the field crew for a few hours and think that is it. Some State societies have been trying to educate the public, but most clients only see one thing: the lowest price. They pay $250 for a quasi-survey today and when the real problems surface, maybe next year-maybe in 5 years-maybe after the kids of deceased parents sell off the adjacent lots, you pay guys like Jasperfield $10K to not only provide a decent survey, but also to fix the problems caused by the lowballer who did zero research and very little analysis, but made a pretty map and gave plenty of lip service to the client.

Forestry and land surveying are both professions, and both are well respected around here. Unfortunately, some see it as a trade and undercut the true professionals.

[SwampDonkey]

Black Bear, if you were practicing in many areas of BC, you would be required to actually engineer those roads and draw up the plan/profiles, engineer the bridges and produce maps.

I've seen some pretty poor road building in NB, especially on woodlots. Using a dozer to scrape off the soil and your road is a ditch full of water unless your on a  ridge. Then you have big berm piles 3-6 feet high on both sides of the road.

[tughill]

Fair enough jasperfield.  I hope you didn't take my questions or comments the wrong way, not meaning to imply anything, I'm just trying to understand.

When you say high mountains what does that mean?  I assume you are talking about steep terrain that is difficult for you to traverse and measure?  I don't really recall seeing many high mountains in NC, but it's all relative I guess.  I lived out west for a few years, and since then I wouldn't really consider anything less than 10,000 feet to be a big mountain, basically because I used to do a lot of hiking, and when I was young and in relatively good shape, that was sort of my 'limit' in terms of what I thought of as 'easy' hiking.

Would you mind briefly describing the difference between a boundary survey and a loan survey or construction survey, as you mentioned?  I'm pretty sure I know the difference, but am curious what the 'real' answer is.

Also, growing up in the northeast, I am not shocked by the survey costs that you mention, as I have seen many farms carved up for building lots, and surveys were considered a necessary evil.  This was generally because the surveys would NEVER match up with the 'traditional' boundaries.  By traditional boundaries I mean hedgerows, and stone walls.  Most farms around the area I grew up in had well established stone walls that were built with the stones picked from the fields many years ago.  It was generally considered by the landowners that the 'old folks' who built the stone walls or left hedgerows or ditches, knew quite well exactly where the boundaries were, and that when a modern survey showed the line to be anywhere from 10-100 feet on one side or the other of the traditional boundary, it was the modern survey that was at fault.  Also sometimes there were cases where modern surveys did not line up with iron pins or concret monuments that were left from 'old' surveys.

Now who was right or wrong in these cases I have no idea.  I'm just curious if you have any comments on this, from a professional standpoint.  Obviously its hard to comment, not having a specific situation, but any insights you may have would be great.

Also in your area do surveyors actually work in the field?  The reason I ask, is I have a friend who is a survey technician.  He works for a surveyor in the area I grew up, and he leads the guys that do all the field work.  As far as I know most actual licensed surveyors don't spend much if any time in the field (in this area).  Like I said, growing up on the farm and around other farms, many of which were subdivided I experienced this quite a bit growing up.  (I grew up on the outside edge of the suburbs of NYC).

I'm not sure what you mean by the difference between a profession and a trade.  I'm basically an industrial electrician/controls technician, and I've never been sure if I'm a professional or tradesmen.  Regular electricians seem to think I'm some kind of engineer, and some engineers treat me like a knuckle dragging grease monkey...Ultimately, I always thought that titles or classifications don't matter too much, it's how much they pay you...  I kinda think a professional is someone who sits and a desk and knows how to do something in theory, but a tradesman is someone who can actually go and do the job.

[stonebroke]

tug hill

I think in NYS rockwalls are considered the boundary, after all they do not move.

Stonebroke

[ksu_chainsaw]

Last year I had a 15 Acre homesite cut out of the family farm and the survey cost us $1000 plus the filing fee at the courthouse to transfer the deed.  The surveyor put in pins on all corners and as far apart as possible on the interior lines but still have line of site from pin to pin, roughly 3-400 feet, it has a gravel road on 2 sides so that was easy enough to find.  I then put a 6' T post right next to each pin and then slipped a piece of white PVC pipe over each one.  In Kansas, to mark for no Hunting or Trespassing all you have to have is a 4" dia purple spray paint mark visible from the outside.  So each pipe i dipped in the purple PVC primer- staining the pipe permanently.

Charles

[Magicman]

Looks like my East property line is going to be surveyed for free.  There was one corner that I was dreading.  It's choked with blackberry briars.  Well it was International Paper property and has been in a holding company (RMS).  The "For Sale" signs were missing last week, and today I saw flagging tape.

I'll have to call the Land Surveyor to see what's going on.

[Ron Scott]

See of you can get a copy of their survey of the line.

[Magicman]

See of you can get a copy of their survey of the line. 

Good point, and something that I had not thought about.  The property line is painted with yellow paint, but that's not a survey.

I found out today that my old highschool friend that was a surveyor, is now a "was".  Dang people are getting old and retiring......imagine that.

[SwampDonkey]

You can tell when one local timber company has been around, fresh orange paint and the line might not be where it used to be. Common occurrence. I mean a maintained red line that was kept up for decades is running parallel to a new orange, most times in their favor.

One guy tried going the cheap and moved a line where he thought it should be, no survey. It was over on public land when he got done. He cut the wood, and was charged with theft and probably for altering a maintained boundary to boot.

In the same token, I saw where a timber company hung ribbons for a harvest line. Trouble was, it ran down into a man's sugar bush and they gutted it. I don't think they were charged with theft or anything. I've seen some of their forest maps, the aerials they used to make them were so distorted they could be off 100 meters or more. I seen it myself many times and measured from a road to where they said the line was and it was way off (the map I mean).

[woody1]

We have alot of property and I have researched all of the deeds back to the original warrants. A few years ago a became addicted to the courthouse. I have two friends who are surveyor. One of them  did the connecting warrant map for our county. Both are in court alot. It sure is a thankless job. I know the amount of research and leg work that goes into a land survey. On one survey for our property I have a hand drawn map that has about 20 connecting properties. There has to be 50 lines that have conflicting meets and bounds.
I also never knew that a land survey is not legally binding, it is just that surveyors opinion of where the line should be. Correct me if I am wrong.
I know that here in PA fences and stonerows are just evidence and not a "for sure" of where the line is.
Woody

[mburrow]

check this link out http://www.lsrp.com/

[Black_Bear]

I also never knew that a land survey is not legally binding, it is just that surveyors opinion of where the line should be. Correct me if I am wrong.
Woody

You are absolutely correct. Lawyers, doctors, foresters, etc, they all give opinions. The professional is hired for his/her specialized knowledge in his/her field of expertise. Many states are slowly moving toward a 4-year degree requirement to become a land surveyor.  

SwampDonkey: When I was at Orono we often used literature on road engineering in BC, mainly because the engineering process in BC is how you described it: intense. With the terrain they have out there I can understand their position.

Woody: I love the research end of a survey. It can be time consuming, but it's neat to research back to the beginning of time (literally). In Maine you can research back to when Maine was still part of Mass.
 
Ed  

[Magicman]

I have the original "hand drawn on linen cloth" deed that my great grandfather got when he bought part of the land that I now own.  It's a neat artifact.  The court house records of that transaction probably was hand drawn at the same time by the surveyor.  I also have the loan papers showing where he financed the purchase and made a $150 annual payment for three years to pay it off.  That was in 1904, several years after he bought the first parcel.

[ljmathias]

Neat observation, Magic- someday our descendants will look back on our "paper" deeds and records and wonder how we managed without using more electrons.  Problem I have with electronic media- reading and archiving- is that it is harder to see (old eyes don't help) and gets lost easier.  Electrons travel pretty darn fast and disappear even faster, and lined up magnets and laser encoded dots and dashes- all subject to wear and tear.  Saw a report a few years back that claimed the most stable, long-term archiving media available is acid-free paper, can last centuries, even thousands of years if sealed, whereas the forms we have today are only designed for a decade or two.  But then, at the rate we're changing things, a few score from now, we'll all be hearsay...

Lj

[SwampDonkey]

Well look at old film, I bet a CD won't last no 100 years.

[Magicman]

I'll have to get that old linen cloth deed out of the safe and take a picture of it to share with you.

[mad murdock]

this is a great thread.  I am modifying my "to do" list for this winter, and will be rechecking my lines on our tree farm.  All 4 corners are clearly marked.  As far as clearing brush along a line goes, in an earlier time, I did a fair amount of work supporting USGS survey crews with our helicopters in Alaska, who were doing Cadastral Survey on land that had never been gone over, setting brass caps and all.  The best tool I wielded was a "Sandvik" brush axe, you could wack through the nastiest brush with relative ease and even make clean swipes through 2" woody stems pretty easily.  Here is one from a supply house that my dad used to buy from when he was in the woods http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/View_Catalog_Page.asp?mi=1763  I guess Haglof makes the thing now.  best tool I have seen for cutting line, much easier and more effective than a machette, nice thing is they are easy to sharpen, just put a new razor sharp blade on, and keep cutting.  One thing that makes my place easy to pick out is that there is a township line and section brass cap on one of my lines, plus the property is a square '40 ac.  A precise survey is worth the money, like magicman said though, you may be able to reduce cost by doing as much "grunt" work you can, so the surveyor isn't having to eat up the clock busting brush, unless you absolutely have no idea where to run a line. Then you are kind of stuck.

[Black_Bear]

A precise survey is worth the money, like magicman said though, you may be able to reduce cost by doing as much "grunt" work you can, so the surveyor isn't having to eat up the clock busting brush, unless you absolutely have no idea where to run a line. Then you are kind of stuck.

How about an accurate survey? What are those worth? What if the survey is precise, but not accurate?

Generally, when a surveyor is retained to perform a job the client has no idea where all, if any, of his/her lines are. Out of possibly 200 surveys I've been on, I've yet to have a client cut brush for us. Correction, one time we had a D6 "cut line" when we created 40 acre lots in northern Maine spruce/fir regen about 5-15' tall.

[mad murdock]

I am a helicopter mechanic for my day job, so for me precise and accurate go hand in hand.  You have a good point though.  People all see things from different angles depending on their background.  If a guy has no ideal where to start on where his lines are, then he may be at the mercy of a surveyor, as they are the ones who can legaly set forth property descriptions and register said description with the county registrar.  I am sure the saying "posession is 9/10ths of the law", was quipped by some old land baron during a range war from long years ago. When it gets right down to it, the only way I could judge if I was getting a fair shake, would be to get some references from the surveyor, and follow up on them, to see if I was getting a fair shake or not.  Merry Christmass to all!

[maple flats]

I fail to understand how a survey can be precise and not accurate or visa versa. I know it happen but the professional should be both. This said, I know that no 2 surveys put a given line in the exact same spot. If you had a boundry line marked by 3 different surveyers there likely would be 3 lines. However, any of the 3 would be real close to whatever IS accurate, wherever that is.

[Jasperfield]

Precision is to repeatability, as accuracy is to nearness to truth. Both precision and accuracy are required, by statute, in all the United States.

In example: A precise survey is not necessarily accurate; An accurate survey is not necessarily precise.

Your three different professional surveyors (not jacklegs, wanna-bees, or untrained employees) given the same objective and having equal qualifying credentials, education & experience; and having identical field evidence, record evidence, orientation, and absence of title discrepancies; and correctly using calibrated instruments & appurtenances will determine the same corner positions (and their subtended lines).

Absence of any of the above will result in dissimilar results.

Most "meets and bounds" states (and many public land states) set forth ratio-of-precision specifications (compliance required under penalty of law) applicable to different classifications of survey. And they pertain to specific tolerances of distances measured, angles turned, and position of set or found monumentation.

[Black_Bear]

I got interrupted while I was typing and I see Jasperfield beat me to it, but here is what I had to write:

maple flats:

Precision in a survey provides a measure of repeatability. If the survey is performed using acceptable techniques that provide consistent results then precision will typically be high. However, if the precise surveyor locates and marks what he/she believes to be the line (i.e. along a stonewall) and that stonewall is not the line, then the survey is precise but not accurate. And yes, the professional should be both accurate and precise.

Measurements are merely evidence derived during a survey and are generally used to verify the relative positions of monuments. They are generally not the reason behind poor decisions. The lack of diligent research and analysis is what leads to the majority of problems and future conflicts.

Ed    

[Holmes]

 A property I bought took 3 months to survey 86 acres. The surveyor had to sort thru dozens of hand written or scribbled deeds then try to locate stake and stones put up over 100 years ago. Or find blazed trees that do not exist anymore. He spent a lot of time trying to translate the old deeds to modern measurements. A lot of the deeds do not state distance just old markers.I have heard of other deeds stating distance as  hatchet throws ,like 20 hatchet throws east. I wonder if that is 1000' or 4000'.

[indiaxman1]

Most competent surveyors will be precise...my piece of ground was surveyed around 1850....they used chains....10 yrs ago was resurveyed using all the modern instrument....matched the old exactly...for marking property lines, esp. in rough terrain, topo map and compass help