Land survey costs

[Woolywolf]

Have any of you had a survey done on your forestland in the past? I'm trying to get a general idea of what the cost associated with it might be. My grandmother owns about a 150 acres of forestland, and I checked at the county courthouse and unfortunately no surveys have been done for the property in the past.  The boundary lines have been neglected ever since my grandfather (who took care of the land) died about twenty years ago. All I have to go off of now is the county tax maps that show property lines, a few iron stakes, some old barb wire fences, aerial photos, and my silva ranger compass.   

The problem is that several deer stands (not ours) have showed up on our property (unfortunately her property isn't posted) and part of the property will probably be harvested in upcoming years, so having boundaries marked and posted is and will be needed. I am certain I know where many boundaries lines are, but other lines run and turn through thickets so thick that my machette is afraid to go through them, and parts of other lines run through swamps.

Any ideas on what a survey might cost? 

[Black_Bear]

Can't help you with the cost estimate, but here is a link to surveyors in NC. I'd try to find a surveyor who knows the local history and/or has surveyed abutting parcels. He/she should be able to give you a cost estimate or cost range. 

NC is not a mandatory recording state. A survey performed in the area may not be in the public record. Maybe a neighbor(s) has a survey plat at their home?   

http://www.ncsurveyors.com/page_ncss_findasurveyor.php?search_session=0

[Jasperfield]

I'm a Professional Surveyor in NC.

Here in the higher Western Counties you can expect costs to be about $125/hr field time (Portal to Portal for two persons). Research, Analysis, & Mapping will be about $90/hr.

I would estimate about $10,000-$12,000.

Since you mentioned swamps, you're down on the Eastern end of the state where you may expect these rates to be about 20% lower.

[Magicman]

but other lines run and turn through thickets so thick that my machette is afraid to go through them, and parts of other lines run through swamps.

Very likely a surveyor would have to chop through those thickets, and charge you for doing it.

During the Winter, I do all that I can to maintain property lines.  This includes clearing walkways through briers and painting trees, etc. along old fence rows.  After you get the property lines cleared, you can usually plot a straight line between known benchmarks.  In my situation, I've gradually re-established my property lines myself.

If posting is necessary, then get that done also.  Issue written notices to the known tresspassers.  Let them know that the next step will be "legal".

[Black_Bear]

I have a feeling Jasperfields numbers are not what Woolywolf wanted to see.

I don't personally know Jasperfield, but I'd be willing to bet the product would be professionally done and shortcuts would not be taken. I like the rates; too many surveyors give away their product, especially in tougher economic times.

 

[paulpieter]

Agree with magicman. Do as much of the reconnaissance work beforehand. This should save bundles. Draw a rough map showing all evidence for the surveyor to work from. Also mark the evidence in the field with paint or flagging tape. Even the bits of barb-wire fence, sometimes that is all there is. Also cut the property lines, suggest that machetes are for the novitiates. Try a good brushcutter (Stihl or Husqvarna), you will recover the cost in savings by the time you are done.

[hokie97]

We just had a farm done and the cost was about $70 ac, but most of the guys around here are pretty hungry right now, so you may find someone to work for less.  Of course they may be less then diliget too!  Try talking to your neighbors about the boundries as well.  If you can get a good idea of where the line is, or argree on where you will harvest up to you could avoid some of the costs up front.  Old deeds may give you a good starting point too.  Rocks that I would have never seen become very obvious when you have the deed in hand!

[Woolywolf]

Thanks for the info everybody. It looks like it would probably be in the $7,000 range at least, which are numbers that, like Black_bear said, I didn't want to see. I don't think a survey would be a feasible option right now. Although my grandma and I have been to the courthouse a couple of times to find maps and some recent deeds, we should probably go back and search through old deeds from past ownership to see if they're more descriptive about the boundaries. I think the only option at this point is for us to reestablish the lines that we're confident on ourselves, and keep working on the one's we aren't.

 

[Stan snider]

In this day and age when GPS can put you within a very few inches anywhere on this planet $70 per acre seems out of this world or did that include clearing the right of way? Here all records generated by a survey are proprietary and surveyors aren't known for helping each other out or divulging more than is essential to their client even though the information was generated on the clients ticket.It seems a peculiar way of verifying PUBLIC records.         Woolywolf; Are the descriptions in section, township and range or metes and bounds?  Metes and bounds uses trees, rocks, creeks, ridges etc for markers. Stan

[Magicman]

I think the only option at this point is for us to reestablish the lines that we're confident on ourselves, and keep working on the one's we aren't.

I think that you will be surprised/pleased with how much of the boundries that you can recover.  BUT, when you need a Land Surveyor, then that's what you need.....No substitute.....Same with a Registered Forester.   Good luck...

[maple flats]

I have had forested properties surveyed in the past. There is a huge variation on costs. Have adjoining properties been done, how long has the deed been in one name, how many pieces have been broken off, is it a square or rectangle or is it real complicated, do the deed descriptions give land marks that still exist, and many other variables. If it is a simple survey it might be half that, if real screwey it might be well over that figure. Another thing, is it all 1 deed or a group of many. There might be others I am not thinking of.
However, do start what you can to make it easier for a surveyor, Everything you do to make his job easier will save you $, however be careful not to permanently mark the trees as an indication of the line. I do not know about about your state but in NY you must be a surveyor to mark the trees permanently. You can however put temp marks where you think it is or to point out fences and such so they can find them quicker. If you think you have a good idea where a line goes by all means open a trail. In one of my surveys the surveyor did not have to actually follow the line right on the line. I had a trail opened that proved to be about 20' inside my line. He surveyed along that and then just went out the 20' or whatever it was to set the iron pin.
After you get the survey done I suggest you cut pieces of PVC pipe to slide over the survey pins, this makes them show up much easier later on. On one survey some sections were so thick that I had the surveyor set a pin every 150' along the line and then I slid PVC pipe over each. The line can now be seen or found easily. After the survey by all means post it. Timber theft is easier to prevent than to collect on or prosecute later. Some loggers will go over a line knowingly but most will not. These loggers could come from across the line from any neighbor. The more valuable the timber the greater the temptation for them to "innocently cross the line" I find it hard to believe how many people never really know where the line is.
Good luck.

[Magicman]

What a great idea using PVC pipe over the pins !!!   I'll be slipping pipe when I walk my lines after deer season.

[stonebroke]

pounding in a t post and painting it orange also works

Stonebroke

[SwampDonkey]

The folks hired a local surveyor here. He used GPS with a base for corrections set up in the field. We had to survey almost 300 acres, one side didn't need to be because it was on the international boundary between NB and Maine. The surveyor came along with a bushman to brush the line and blaze property trees. We did this in the spring before leaf out so it was quick to spot out the lines. We were done the whole farm by 3:30 in the afternoon. Cost around $750. This surveyor does work for a timber company 3 -4 days a week, keeping their lines fresh and new lines when they buy ground. So his costs are lot more reasonable than many. If he charged those rates I'm seeing in here, he'd be starving. Timber companies are about the cheapest landowners because they are used to doing things on large volumes. Anyway, I went in a week later and painted all the blazed trees with a brush and paint can in hand with red paint.  I did my own land a few years before. That was even easier, since only one line had to be checked and it already had an old survey with the spotted trees. I just flagged everything and let him walk around it. Wasn't thick brush, could see several yards ahead. I later brushed it better and painted it to. Gonna paint it again this spring. I also have pressure treated posts on the corners. Front two are on road edge, back two on international boundary with Maine. I think we paid around $700 for that lot to. One line he had to follow my trace with a survey, since it was a parcel taken off the main farm, so the line was where we said it was since we owned both sides. That side line followed closely to a spruce plantation and field edge. The other part was sold and I doubt anyone will ever paint it again for a long time. The blazes are about all healed up. I know the guy that bought it, so unless he hires it done, it won't be done.

[Stan snider]

Thats more the range what I was thinking it was worth than the  rates quoted earlier. Technology has raised the price of a survey around here it sees and that is backwards. My Dad told me his Dad (dead before my time) used a method of a plumbline at a certain time of day near the equinoxes to establish East West lines correcting for longitude. there are a lot of old methods that work in every field that have fallen out of favor.  Knowing how to do that would be handy. Anyone know how that works? Stan

[Raider Bill]

Around my Tenn prop I notice differnt red paint marks on trees,
single line, double line triple line, X's X's with slash, O's I suppose they all mean something differnt anyone know?

To me it appears that whoever did it just followed the path of least resisteance as the zig zag a bit around had to get through places.

[jim king]

The costs of everything up there in the States just amaze and stun me. 

Two or three years ago I had a survey done on several thousand acres and it took about two weeks without coming back to town or to camp.  Including food, transport , surveyors , materials and helpers I think the cost was in the area of $3,000.

[tughill]

Jasperfield,
You are saying that 150 acre survey, would take 100 hours of field and research time?  At 125$ an hour that's what it sounds like.  Seems awful high to me.

A good source of information and maps is the Farm service agency (USDA), soil and water conservation office, or whatever the local government bureau that deals with farmers is.

When I bought my farm, luckily, no survey was required, and it is laid out nearly square with respect to north-south-east-west.  So armed with my garmin etrex GPS and some coordinates from the FSA, as well as aerial photos from google maps, and terra server, I found all of my boundaries within 3-4 hours, most already had some old fence and/or fenceposts, even in the woodlot.  Note that this was just shy of 300 acres.  I cross checked all of these against the rods and chains and coordinates from my deed, and everything was within a few feet.  Those few feet are mostly covered with brush (hawthorne) so not worth messing with to me.

Another fun fact I found was that the tax parcel maps, are not necessarily right or even close to right, they are only for tax purposes.

I think there is a lot of information available, and the average person can find property boundaries with a bit of research fairly easily, although every situation is unique, and it won't be legal or official as with a licensed surveyor.

[Stan snider]

Tughill you have it figured out.Surveyors like to claim to being extremely accurate but two surveys will arrive at slightly differing points. It is easy to confuse the accuracy needed in a high value urban settings with what is needed to be fair with neighbors in a timber sale or other ag land. Treating your neighbors generously will pay dividends for generations. You can buy something you don't need. If a survey is needed for financing you may be stuck. Ag bankers often let this slide. If not they either are not confident in their ability or yours, or they are going to sell the mortgage. New regulations are probably going to effect this. Big Brother is GROWING!!  Gotta go feed more cows.. Stan

[dsgsr]

I was lucky, A Survey had been done on the property I bought and Iron pins had been placed on most lines corners. It had been many yrs. since the lines had been cut/opened so I got a http://www.mainetechnicalsource.com/page8.html   Suunto KB14 compass. Made myself a Jacobs staff ( A wooden dowel or walking stick) Mine was a 1"X 5' hardwood  dowel. I drilled a hole in the center and inserted a 1/4" X 20 X 1" threaded Stainless bolt with the head cut off and threaded that into the bottom of the compass (which has a threaded 1/4 X 20 hole made in the bottom of it). I then found out the Declination of my area (which you must determine first before taking any azimuth reading) from http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmodels/Declination.jsp  Then I went to work cutting the lines open. If anyone is interested in what or how I did this you can PM me.
This cuts down on a lot of the work the Surveyor must do (but they wont tell you this)


David