Author Topic: Catclaw sharpener help (Read 3417 times)

mikejp · « **on:** December 04, 2009, 10:04:52 pm »

I have a catclaw sharpener and for the life of me I can't sharpen blades. Every time I try to sharpen one of my friends blades I ruin it. I don't know what I am doing wrong. He is running a timberking b20 with cooks supersharp blades. I have the supersharp cam installed on my machine and set to 8 degrees in the back. This last time I had him pull me a blade off that was still cutting good but starting to get dull. I did not set or roll just try and sharpen. When I do they may dive then climb. Make a wavy cut then break after a pass or two. I cant figure out what I am doing wrong. If anybody has any advice or could help I would be very greatfull. I have ruined so many blades now I will have to sharpen for a year to break even. Thanks for the help. Mike

1938farmall · « **Reply #1 on:** December 04, 2009, 10:54:38 pm »

mikejp, i'm guessing it's how you are dressing the "rock". the folks at cook's are very helpful on the phone. al

mikejp · « **Reply #2 on:** December 04, 2009, 11:01:20 pm »

I sent a email to Tim at cooks and he said he would help me but I am having a hard time catching him as we both work the same hours and my employer does not like us on the phone. I have the dvd that shows how to sharpen and I try to dress the stone like he shows how but I may not be doing it right. I am also not sure as to how many passes a person should do on a blade and how deep on each pass and should it be more on the face or the back of the tooth. Do you have to do the gullet of the tooth. It seams to take several passes to get all of the gullet. Should it turn the tooth blue. How can you tell if the tooth is sharp? Thanks for the help. Mike

backwoods sawyer · « **Reply #3 on:** December 04, 2009, 11:15:32 pm »

I am not running the cooks sharpener, but what it sounds like is that you are taking to much off at a time and are over heating the tips of the saw. I sent a batch of saws out to the local saw shop while I was getting my sharpener tuned up and they came back the way you are describing. The solution is to get the stone ground correctly put on an old throw away saw and practice setting the grinding wheel so that it just lightly kisses the saw all the way around the lighter the better. The wheel should go down the face of the tooth, around the gullet, and up the back of the tooth taking an even amount off all the way around. If it is not following the profile of the tooth completely and evenly then you will need to make adjustments to get it there. Someone with a cat claw sharpener will better at helping you with making those adjustments. Just remember every adjustment should be made in small increments. With my woodmizer sharpener, I am fine-tuning the sharpener to each saw that I put on the sharpener, setting the sharpener for one saw and then running a dozen saws thru on the same setting will not produce very good results. With my sharpener I gently lower the grinder so that it is cycling just above the tooth and gradually lower and adjust it until is lightly following the profile. Watch the tips of the saw for even a slight amount of discoloring, as this will change the hardness of the tooth affecting how it will cut.

LeeB · « **Reply #4 on:** December 04, 2009, 11:25:54 pm »

It most deffinately should not be turning the tips blue. That is a sign that te tips are overheating and buning. This wil take the hardining out nad make the tips soft. I have yet to put on a cam on either of my sharpeners, one a woodmizer and the other a catclaw, that I didn't have to tweek a little bit to get it just right to the profile I wanted. I ruined plety of blades till I figured it all out and even still now I mess up one every now and then. a light touch is the way to go. What rock are you using? The pink and blue ones can be a little soft and you will loose the coorect shape real quickly if you are taking a heavy grind. Like the last post sid, get some of those old dmaged blades and try , try again till you get it right. Pay close attention to the shape of the tooth to make sure the face is ground at the correct angle and not ending up at a negative angle. This will happen if your rock gets out of prfile duye to heavy a grind.

mikejp · « **Reply #5 on:** December 04, 2009, 11:30:05 pm »

I think you are right but I am not sure how to do it. It seams on my sharpener that it either wants to hit hard on the face or the back. It seams like the cam will not allow it to do just a little. It seams that the stone stays in the tooth to long but that could be a combination of poor adjustment and improper shaped stone. If anybody happens to be close to little rock arkansas and could help me set this up that would be great. My friend is always after me to do his blades even though I have ruined so many. I think the shipping must be eating him up. I am running a blue rock and really always thought that a light even grind all the way around the tooth would be best but just have not been able to acheive that yet.

fstedy · « **Reply #6 on:** December 04, 2009, 11:46:21 pm »

When you profile the rock set it in the gullet not touching the blade. Have the rock almost touching the face of the tooth and close to the bottom of the gullet now shape it to the tooth profile this will get you close on the rock profile. When you are grinding the harder you hit the tooth face the sooner the cam will raise the rock up out of the gullet as it moves along. It takes a little practice to balance the tooth face setting so the whole profile is ground. If your rock is shaped properly and you just kiss the tooth face it should grind the whole tooth profile. Don't grind the bottom of the gullet hard this might be whats causing your blades to break. If the back of the tooth is being ground hard either move to the tooth face, raise the rock in the gullet or check the rock profile sometimes its a combination of these adjustments that you have to perform.

LeeB · « **Reply #7 on:** December 05, 2009, 12:02:22 am »

Till you get the hang of it and figure out all the adjustments you might want to use the black rocks. They are a little harder nad won't distort in shape as quickly. Start with rock first by taking a little off the right sie at about a 45* angle. take off about 1/4 to 1/3 of the width of the rock. Very lightly round over the left side. Only just enough to see it rounded. Next thing to do is adjust the travel o the rock takes alight cut on all surfaces. Turn the hight knobclock wise to lift the rock above the blade so it doesn't touch when it drops down as the cam turns. With the grinder turned off and the cam turning slowly lower the rock by turnig the hight adjustment knob counter clockwise till it just ouches the face of the tooth. If it touches the face real hard or the tip too far back then turn the blade push arm adjuster nut to push the blade a little farhter out. Do this in small increments till it just barely toches the face. Now you can set the depth. Slowly turn the hight adjustment counter clockwise to lower the rock to grind the whole face, lightly skim the gullet and then the back of the tooth. I like to do this with the grinder running. Again, small increments are better. maybe 1/8 to 1/4 turn at a time on the knob. If the rock is hitting the back of the tooth real hard you may need to take a little off the rock on the right side. of not enough then you might need to reshape te rock by flattening it off some so there is less of an area removed. You may also just have to sharpen te blade a few times till it is reshaped to fit your cam. Sharpening is just about 50/50 science and art. Hopefully I haven't totaly confused you. Keep trying. It just takes practice and above all, a light touch. I like to set the run speed at about 4 or 5. Too slow will also burn the tips and too fast will wear out the rock faster.

ladylake · « **Reply #8 on:** December 05, 2009, 06:23:44 am »

If your have the grinder set at 8* and are sharpening a 10* blade it's going to make the gullet deeper. If you don't want to mess with the cam or other adjustments grind the gullet 1st taking as many passes as it takes to get the gullet deep enough to match your sharpener, then adjust it so it hits the face lightly , then it should hit the face and the whole gullet. Sounds like your hogging off to much in 1 pass, maybe that 1/2 hp motor is to powerful, my Wright motor is a little wimpy and won't let me take off too much in 1 pass. Also the Cooks supersharps that I tried came with not much set, you may need to set at the 1st sharpening. I just read Lee's post, he has it covered well. One thing he mentioned is adjusting the height and face with the grinder running which is what to do, then you can set it just right . Once you get a blade though hitting the face and gullet lightly the next time it should only need 1 pass. I use a black wheel with excellent results, they last forever and don't need profiling very often. Steve

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #9 on:** December 05, 2009, 07:17:14 am »

Just a wild guess: Did you install the cam, and, is it installed the correct way

If it is on backwards, it will not perform correctly

Put on a NEW blade. Turn the machine by hand, and see how it matches the tooth profile. Might take some time, but, you HAVE to watch what the machine is doing, before you can start adjusting.

mikejp · « **Reply #10 on:** December 05, 2009, 11:11:25 am »

Well after reading these great post I am pretty sure a lot of my problem is with my rock. I would always think how fast these blue stones get eaten up. To the point that if I faced the rock it would need refacing before I could even get the blade done. I would try and make the rock look like a u on bottom. Kinda rounded on the corners. I would always turn the teeth blue but I was trying real hard to stay off of them. I think this is kinda hard to set up and get going if you have never seen it done before. Here is some new questions. How many passes do you tend to make on a blade? How do you know when its done? Can you tell the difference between a sharp blade and a dull just by looking at it? When you sharpen will the stone always hit all of the face, gullet, and back of the tooth or if it hits the tooth face nicely but misses some in the gullet is that ok? I was told to make a very light pass on the last one to help clean it up . Is that true?

Thanks so much for everybodys help. I have so much money in this it is frustrating that for about 2 years I have never been able to get it right.

coastlogger · « **Reply #11 on:** December 05, 2009, 11:25:03 am »

Mr Deadheader has an excellent point to be considered. IS the cam on right way around? Dont ask how I know
clgr

fstedy · « **Reply #12 on:** December 05, 2009, 12:51:12 pm »

You can tell if a blade is sharp by looking at the sharpened edge in a lighted area. If the blade is dull you will see a reflection coming from the edge. When you are sawing it shows up first on the points of the outside top edge of the tooth. This is also true for drill bits the outside edge always wears first as thats where the cutting action starts. If your using the proper cam for the blade as in Cooks Supersharp blades and cam and your blades are taken off early when they first start to dull you may get away with one light sharpening. A lot depends on your setup and how worn the blades are.

mikejp · « **Reply #13 on:** December 05, 2009, 01:07:24 pm »

Well I had to go check but the cams on the catclaw will only go on one way. No way to mix it up so thats not it but good guess. This sharpener has I belive 4 adjustment. You can move your roller bearings on the front for different size baldes. I made this mistake for along time as I bought this used and the guy before me was sharping 1"1/2" baldes and my friends are 1"1/4". I have these in the thrid whole from the top.
Next I see the adjustment on the back. I belive this is for the degrees which I have set to 8 per cooks instruction. I belive I have the right cam because to get it we bought 20 blades so the cam should be right for these blades unless somebody messed up. I don't think so because is says cooks super sharp 8 degree on the cam.
The final two adjustment I see are for the grinder height and the finger push which would control if you are more on the face or back of the tooth.

Let me ask this question. If you were going to sharpen all day long. Say a 100 blades and they were all the same blade. Would you have to re adjust your machine for each one a little or once you had it could you just keep putting them on and it would be dead on. I guess what I am asking is every blade of the same type and brand exactly the same or are they each off a little depending on what machine cut them and who was running it and so on.

coastlogger · « **Reply #14 on:** December 05, 2009, 02:39:49 pm »

Depends how many sharpenings each blade has had. They lose a few thou with each pass of the grinder,making them lower.

mike_van · « **Reply #15 on:** December 05, 2009, 04:14:17 pm »

You have to adjust for every single blade, it may be just a tiny turn on the height or the length of the pushrod. If you don't you're just burning up blades [and stones] The stone needs to be kept clean with the dressing tool, the grind should be so light that there's no bluing of the teeth. Two light passes are better than one heavy one. I have the same grinder, with the 7/8" Red Streak cam, I've done every blade from 3/4 pitch to 1", and 1 1/4 wide up to 2. It's all in the adjustments. Compare it to leaving a chain to be sharpened & getting it back half ground away & blue. Same applies here. Cooks used to have a video tape about the sharpener, it was all good advise on there.

ladylake · « **Reply #16 on:** December 05, 2009, 07:21:05 pm »

Yes you have too adjust for every blade, sometimes even new ones are a slightly different height. On the 1st sharpening I don't care if it hits the whole gullet but it should by the 2nd as the corners of the tooth will get rounded off if it doesn't . 99% of the time it only takes 1 pass, if quite a few teeth get damaged it might take more. If your bluing the teeth either your grinding to much off or that blue wheel is to fine and creates a lot of heat. When I started sharpening 10* blades to 4* I had too make a few adjustments that weren't built into the machine to make it follow the 10* gullet. Once you get your grinder figured out you'll like it. I've sharpened thousands on mine, at 7 or 8 dollars each that saved a lot of money, it take a little time but once you get it running you sharpen a chainsaw chain or whatever. Steve

Stan snider · « **Reply #17 on:** December 05, 2009, 07:33:25 pm »

I'm thinking that you are taking off way to much metal. The wheel should retain its shape for several blades. To tell if it is sharp run your fingernail (the back of it) across the tooth. A sharp tooth will hang in your nail and a dull one will slide off. Just compare a new band and a used one and you can easily see what I mean. Stay with it and look for the fine details. Stan

logwalker · « **Reply #18 on:** December 06, 2009, 01:08:48 am »

Unless you are using a protractor to measure the tooth angle how do you know it is right. If you have the right cam for the blades than it sounds like you don't have the angle right.

It takes practice to do it well. I start with the stone stopped and cycle the cam and get the stone to follow the tooth and gullet closely but not quite touching. Then I start the stone and cycle both motors and slowly lower the grinder until it is barely kissing the blade. I generally make 3 or 4 passes so I don't burn the tooth.

You need good light to see and good glasses. I use a magnifier and glasses. I also raised the grinder so it was easier to see. I all helps and makes it more accurate.

Now the rub, if you aren't setting the blades accurately then you are not going to get satisfactory results no matter how sharp you get them. I think that a dull blade can cut straight but a sharp blade with the wrong set will never cut straight.

Joe

Papa1stuff · « **Reply #19 on:** December 06, 2009, 06:32:50 am »

From what I have been reading here ,I am glad I purchased a WM CBN sharpener

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Author Topic: Catclaw sharpener help (Read 3417 times)