sawing out a house

[ljmathias]

I should be finishing up the stick built house for my youngest son around Christmas time, and now my other son is making noise about building one for him and his.  A while back (yesterday?  short term memory ain't what it once was), Magicman posted somewhere here (what memory?) about having cut all the wood for an entire house.  I was just wondering about who else has done the same and what parameters they used, plus what pitfalls and "lessons learned" came out of the experience.  Here's the goal: cut every piece of lumber for the framing from the raised foundation floor joists to the roof rafters; probably go stick frame since he has little patience with learning timberframing at this point.  I'll use 4/4 siding on the outside, and if my ship comes in so I can buy a molder-planar of some kind, internal walls will be wood as will all stairs and floors.  Looking at three floors and say 1600 sqft living space with the bottom floor a half-basement and the outer half open for parking lawnmowers and such.

Here's the situation here, equipment-wise and resource-wise: got an excellent LT40 hydraulic plus equipment to cut and handle logs and lumber after cutting.  Also got a big barn to store lumber in till we build.  Got hand tools of all kinds including framing equipment.  Also, got all the SYP I'll need still fresh and green, which means it'll be wet and sticky fresh off the mill.  Bad news: no kiln, and everything I'm using now has been drying for awhile, either in the log or as stickered and stacked, which makes the lumber pretty stable.  Won't have that luxury for the next house, so we'll probably cut everything as we go or a little ahead so we can frame up fairly quick.

I guess my questions are pretty vague, probably because I'm not sure what to ask at this point.  If I cut everything to dimension sizes, it'll shrink a bit in thickness after we put it up- build it in the black and let it air dry for a while before finishing the outside and inside?  Or just let her shrink for a couple years after finishing and just patch it up?

Magic: did you kiln dry all the lumber for the house you cut?  If not, then what?

Anyone else want to jump in, I'd appreciate it greatly.  Long live the forum!!

Lj

[paul case]

LJ,
i cut the lumber for the addition on my house(1500 sq ft). pad floor, 2x4 stick walls, 2x6 trusses, 1x4,6,8,10,12, even 16 for decking and sheating. metal exterior,cut red oak3/8''x8'' for paneling lapped 1'' or so horizontal and screwed on the lap withsheetrock screws. we did 1 room in live edge cedar lapped and screwed the same way. we made live edge corner and window trim out of 3/8'' cedar. steel for ceiling. all green and rough. real rustic look  my wife and i love it. my mom calls it the lodge.
we put the paneling up and let it dry for a week or so and then sprayed it with polyeurathane. it has shrunk some but we think it just adds to the look.
my advice .     GO FOR IT  pc

[D Hagens]

 I hope this turns in to an interesting thread as we are thinking about doing the same thing. I was reading through many threads late last night and I read where a few guys were saying that its not worth cutting your own lumber.
 We plan to build on the islands and the way I see it a saw would be worth its weight in gold even after we've finished.
 I'm thinking that the saw will pay for itself.

[ljmathias]

Thanks, PC, and I will go for it- I'm half retired now and money is tighter than I thought it would be... well, duh!  No workee, no payee!  So I'm only half broke for the next three years and then I go into full broke mode, so I guess I better get these houses build fast!

Lj

[WH_Conley]

Put it up green. If you want the paneling not to shrink quite as much, finish the exterior walls, put the paneling lumber on sticks inside and build a fire in a wood stove. Open the doors a few times a day to vent the moisture. Won't take long, you will be ready to finish out.

[ljmathias]

PC, I just re-read your post: do you have pictures up of your addition, inside and out?  Metal on the outside walls?  Lap siding on the inside?  sounds neat and love to see it!

Lj

[fishpharmer]

Now I don't know for sure, but I seem to recollect reading that in the old days folks would saw and build with green lumber.  Keep up the good work LJ.  

[paul case]

no pics on post but my wife is pretty tech savy , i'll see if i can sweet talk her a little. yep lap siding on the inside . never acused of being backwards, CONVICTED!!  pc

[Magicman]

Magic: did you kiln dry all the lumber for the house you cut?  If not, then what?
Lj

No house framing lumber that I have ever sawed has been kiln dried.

I saw the 2X12's first and then progress down to the 2X4's.  The job for one house included the house, garage, shop, and small barn.  All of the lumber was cut to dimension and then sticker stacked under open sheds.  I sawed over 1200 studs on that job.

On this last one, there was some uncertainty about the material list when the trees were sawed.  For it, I sawed mostly 1 5/8 (green) and 1/9/16 (dried) X a full 12" lumber which was then sticker stacked.  After it had dried and the material list was available, the "2X12's were stood up on the deck.  A thin cut was made.  They were then flipped, and the 2X8's, 2X6's, and 2X4's were then cut to dimension.  This worked really well, but required additional handling of the lumber.  I charged hourly rate for this work.

[Magicman]

Now I don't know for sure, but I seem to recollect reading that in the old days folks would saw and build with green lumber.  Keep up the good work LJ.  

I have sawed lumber for a couple of houses and the logs were green, freshly cut SYP.  They hauled the lumber from the mill to the building site.  I actually sawed it one day and they nailed it up the next.  As soon as the carpenters finished framing one house, they started on the other.  I don't know if the doors and windows open and close, but that's what happened.  The houses look good from the road..... and I got paid.....   Me, I would want my rafters and joists air dried for at least 6 months.

[fishpharmer]

If you use the same lumber for doors and windows wouldn' t they shrink at equal
rates.  Glass could pose a problem.

[campy]

Here in Tennessee (USA) we have mostly hardwoods.
Things like Oak, Ash, Walnut and Maple.
It is my experience that nail guns do not works so well in hardwood.
What would your recommend?
I would really like to build houses for my kids.

[customsawyer]

I did most of my house out of green lumber and as a few from here have seen it they will tell you that I made a few mistakes but none that can't be fixed once I get to that part. As for the rafters I don't think there is a problem with them being green you will just have to add a few brace supports so that they can't move or bow on you. Remember you are using rough cut lumber on a rustic house it doesn't have to be perfect and it will still look great. It fells really good sitting in a house that you cut while having supper.

[paul case]

campy,
the framing on my house is all oak. tough on nails. we drilled the first hole on all 2x's and drove the nails into the second board. the sheating and decking we used #6 nails anddrove them all the way. we didnt use a air nailer cause we dont have one. a friend of mine does have one and he says that his (not a hi $ 1)will drive framing nails into 2x oak if he turns the air up, but i have seen him drive a few in that his gun quit about 1/2'' too quick. driving nails into oak boards seperates the men from the boys for sure.  green is easier.
we did have some trouble with the juice getting on the hammer head and causing it to slip and bend the next nail. almost wore out my pant leg wiping the hammer head off after every nail.    pc

[metalspinner]

Here in Tennessee (USA) we have mostly hardwoods.
Things like Oak, Ash, Walnut and Maple.
It is my experience that nail guns do not works so well in hardwood.
What would your recommend?
I would really like to build houses for my kids

Yellow poplar and hemlock grow plenty in east TN.  What about near Nashville?  Poplar has a central stem that grows tall and straight. It makes great framing lumber.  I have several piles of poplar framing lumber in the yard for a future shop.

[Magicman]

I've sawed many poplar 2X4 & 2X6 jobs.

[jdtuttle]

Green lumber heavy
dry lumber lighter
jim

[woodpeckerlips]

I'd only add, that a three story house, you should consider adding a 1/4" per each floor and put your stairs in last. I know on really large projects with dry processed lumber where there's elevators. I had to account for 1/4" high at the 1st floor, 1/2" at second, 3/4 at the 3rd. To allow for load and shrinkage. And this was with store bought SYP. After the 45 unit condos was built and the lobby work was started, 6 months later. The floors were really close to being exactly where they needed to be. Might want to put in temp stairs until you get the structure inclosed for a while. Or have the stairs where you can alter the first riser or be able to slide them foward a bit.  Just food for your brain.  Something else to consider.  I'd make a L with 2 2x4's and rack brace on the inside of the house walls to help with the twist and bow of the lumber drying and shrinking. Especially load bearing walls and any long walls (like hallways).  I have a lot of exsperiance with building with store bought lumber. My only exsperiance with my sawn lumber is fence, stalls, pole barns, ect. I can only imagine that the issues I mentioned would only compound with sawn lumber.  Do like I do, take everything everyone tells you, get out of it what you want or believe and forget the rest. Good luck on your project.

[ljmathias]

Thanks, woodlips, and all- great advice and I agree: put it all together, shake well and see what stays when you sift it. 

The reason I'm doing it this way is simple- need to know.  We've done the Dave Ramsey Financial Peace University and are now almost debt free and using a budget.  We're hoping to build the two houses for my sons and maybe one for the daughter in the near future using the pay-as-we-go principle so that we end up with no mortgages on anything.  Fighting with my eldest son on this right now; he's still stuck in the "got to have a mortgage" mode, I guess so he can throw away some of his money on interest. 

In any case, using our own trees and sawmill to make as much of the lumber as possible makes the most sense to me now, so I'm just trying to get the best advice from people with experience I can.  That way, I'll limit my mistakes to those that are not obvious, and if I think about it long enough before I start (way I work on things) I may build in compensation for the twisting and wood movement that is inevitable.  Just like building with logs: shrinkage will happen so design for it.  That's how I'm trying out lap siding and board and batten, and it's working out great: I love the look of it, and if it doesn't hold up past my lifetime, why we'll just unscrew it and put up something else.

Are we having fun yet?  You betcha!

lj

[Planman1954]

I've been on my barn since last Christmas. Actually it is a lot more than just a barn. It has a double garage, upstairs storage area, a separate milking area for our dairy goats, a room for bittys, a room for chickens, and a rear area for 4 barn stalls for animals. I've built it all from a lumbermate 2000, first my friend's down the street, and now my own sitting in the front yard. I'm going to try to post some photos of it now.