Taking the mill on the road will take you on some adventures.....

[backwoods sawyer]

I hope I am not to long winded here
Taking the mill on the road will take you on some adventures that you would never have thought possible when you are set up stationary. A 100-mile circle from my location will take me to the ocean and the top of the cascade mountain range. I have been seeing people on here asking the normal questions about “Portable Custom Milling” and getting good answers to there questions. However, one question I have not seen asked is “what skills besides being a sawyer are needed to go portable” I am sure others that are portable will help fill out that list.
I had been set up on a nice big flat landing and the tree farmer had been bringing in a steady supply of nice straight clean logs that had not touched the ground other then when they bounced. He had a well thought out cut list and a full crew, he even had an adjustable height elevator to handle the tailings, and production was high. Then his tractor broke down and needed a part ordered.
I had a customer that I have milled for many times that just had a days worth of milling that he needed done. He is very meticulous and had three other sawyers’ mill for him before he found me. I let him know that I had changed trucks from a ½ ton 4x4 to a 16’ flat bed with a boom since the last time I milled for him, as I knew he always had limited access to his trees. He assured me that I would be able to make it up the hill and that there was PLENTY of room to turn the mill around. He was waiting to guide me in when I arrived and had me turn around at the neighbors mill (LT-40) so that we could head up a narrow trail that came into the gravel road at the wrong angle. After squeezing the mill thru a 10’ gate on a corner in fog so heavy that you could not see the tail end of the mill. We traveled around the hill thru cow pastures, then the goat trail took a turn straight up the side of the base of the mountain. That is where I spun out. Before I could get out of the truck he had backed up to the truck and his dad hooked a cable to the front of my truck and away we went up a steep, tight switch back narrow trail about a mile and a half later we come to a flat spot about big enough for just the mill to sit on and there is a deck of logs there. He unhooked from me and he assured me that the turn around spot may look small but there would be room to turn around. We wind around the side of the mountain on a clay skid trail and at the end is a very small landing with a skidder broke down sitting where I need to put the truck. The truck and mill were longer then the landing. Therefore, I disconnected the mill and spun it around, turned the truck around and re hooked.
The site was tight but the milling went smoothly other then changing four saws due to rocks mud and clay that were imbedded in the logs, running the debarker helped but they were caked and the sparks were flying from both sides of the cut. I had parked the truck 5’ from the hitch on the mill, and when I went to hook back up to the mill he had to pull my truck back up the hill to the hitch. The views from up on the mountain were grate and 1st gear low range was plenty fast enough for coming down as it was starting to get dark. I could see his truck four switchbacks below me as I crawled off the mountain.
   
Other necessary skills should include off road driving and vehicle recovery.

I know others will say this is why they are not portable. However, this is part of why I am 100% portable. If you are portable share your adventures.

[James P.]

well I am not portable but still am going to chime in. I have had many adventures getting to where I am and without a sawmill toting behind me. I have had flatbeds with lift gates and had trucks stuck facing down embankments trying to pull logs out . chain falls used to pull me back up from a bad situation. Driving for many years a 57 Chevy 2 ton truck with a single speed rear and granny geared transmission going 45 mph with the engine a 261 screaming along. handmade chain fall cranes for loading. I spent many a day away at someones farm or home.  If given a portable mill. It would still stay stationary for me. I am a homebody. I don't like to be gone from my place for more than a few hours at the most. Assuming you have all your equipment in fine running order I could see the less stressful side of that. Considering I couldn't afford to get a tow or sometimes even make a call. I will just stick to being immobile . I been across this country several times and have seen alot. I enjoyed it and glad I got it under my belt.But now I am always happy to be home.

[fstedy]

It can get interesting from Mountainsides to Mud Bogs. Its all in a days work. Thank God its mostly in the middle here but I have been to both ends!!!

[solidwoods]

A good addition would be a blade sharpener.
Just set it up at the end of the mill and sharpen as you mill.
yes $ but you don't have a sharpen bill, always have sharp blades, rock/mud hits aren't so bad.
Take on a couple of local mill blade customers to make the payments + your sharpening savings.

To me I'd think it would be more profitable to haul logs to your mill.
Now you don't have the extra expenses of going portable.
Stationary has other tools to make the milling more efficient.
Hauling logs time and driving a mill time are the same.
Mill setup and log loading are a little different but could be made very close in time required, depends on loading equipment.

Stationary- use your slabs to make heat to run a kiln/heat the homestead.
What does it cost for a bundle of sawmill slabs (You may make 2 in a day) in your area.  Mill stationary and you add that to your pay.

Your mill covered if you wrap it around a tree at 30mph?

It does cost extra $ to haul the log instead of the mill, you would just have to weigh the factors that apply to you.

A little of both could increase profitability.
jim

[pnyberg]

The truck and mill were longer then the landing. Therefore, I disconnected the mill and spun it around, turned the truck around and re hooked.

Do I understand this correctly?  You turned your mill around 180° by hand?  If so, I'd like to know more about how you did it, because it sounds like a good skill to have.

--Peter

[Chuck White]

Generally speaking, one person can turn an LT40HDG24 around by hand.
The machine is pretty-well balanced when the mill is in the "on the road" position!
Tongue weight is about 60 pounds!  It might be a little more, but it's not difficult to turn around by hand!

[Magicman]

Not difficult to turn around at all.  I like your adventure.....sounds slightly familiar....

BTW.....Happy Birthday Backwoods Sawyer.....21 more years and you will be as old as Tom ?....

 

[Jeff]

I can easily spin my lt30 around by hand in the "on the road position" on a firm flat surface.

[pnyberg]

I can't think of a way to measure my tongue weight, but it is way more that 60 pounds for sure. 

Maybe the difference is the all the weight the Command Control station adds to the front end.  There's the station itself, with it's beefy support arm, as well as the track and track support.  Plus I've got the board return option, which includes that hefty table feature. 

I've only put 20 hours on the mill, and haven't had a reason to open the hydraulics box yet.  Maybe I should take a peek and make sure that nobody stashed a bunch of gold bars in there. 

--Peter

[Hilltop366]

How about a bathroom scale?

[customsawyer]

All I can add is that you have to love what you do. I do both and enjoy both, when stationary I love having all my extra equipment with me and lots of spare parts in the shed at hands reach, when mobile I love going out and getting to see other areas and where my customers live. It gives you a great since of your customer. The things I don't like about being stationary is that I am stuck in the same place all the time, when portable it gets tough to make much for your time spent driving and setting up.

[backwoods sawyer]

I have the command control on the front of my mill as well and it is more then I want to lift to set it on the ball so I use the front jack to lift it. I carry a pair of 6’ pry bars, pee-vees works in a pinch. To move the front end around lift the front with the bar and let it slide down the bar it will move over a foot or two at a time, just be sure to chalk the correct side of the wheels to get it to pivot in place.

When I was “younger”, I used to run around in the mountains bear hunting with a Toyota 4x4 and a pack of hounds. We had a spring and fall hunting season, most of the rest of the year was open for training. That heavy dog box added weight to the back of the truck and it would go where I pointed it. All portable sawyers would benefit from that kind of training. Anyone for an off road rally to hone are skills?

M.M. I may not be as old as Tom but I am starting to feel like it.

Being portable is harder on the mill with all the vibration, road grime on the lower rail bearing, ect. Nevertheless, it is cheaper then buying or renting a piece of land to set a mill up on. So there are trade offs.

Yes, having your own sharpening equipment when sawing dirty logs will save you a lot of money in a short time. I always carry six saws with me, and have yet to run out. In this case there was a mix of cedar and Doug-fir so I had three 10* and three 13*. To keep them organized I used Magicmans idea of a short garbage can to contain them. The wife had bought a new tree for the yard and the container was the right size to hold the saws.

[RENOV8R]

I don't even think I've heard this perk brought up yet, but more times than not, on the big jobs (4 to 5 hours or longer), I'll hear something like..."Ok, let's knock off for a while, my wife's got lunch ready..."   I have scored so many good meals being on the road, it's crazy.  Sometimes it's just a sandwich and some soda, but working out in the autumn air, they couldn't taste any better.

[pnyberg]

I can't think of a way to measure my tongue weight, but it is way more that 60 pounds for sure. 

How about a bathroom scale?

Not quite up to the task...




I put the weight of the front of the mill onto the two forward outriggers behind the front one, then put the scale under
the front outrigger and started cranking it down.  It maxed out the 300 pound capacity scale without coming close to taking the full weight of the front of the mill.  I backed it off a little so you could see the numbers.

I'll take backwoods sawyer's advice, and some 6 foot pry bars to my list of tools to take on the road.

--Peter

[Chris Burchfield]

I found the farm jack to be useful. I've bent the bar we use on the wm jacks. But then, I've broken stuff that didn't need to be broken because I put too much umph on whatever it was that didn't need breaking. Ouch. 

[Magicman]

put the scale under the front outrigger and started cranking it down--Peter

There is a lot of leverage difference from the front outrigger and the end of the tongue.  I can easily lift the tongue of my mill (WM LT40 SuperHydraulic) at the hitch, but no way at the front outrigger.  To be accurate, the scale would have to be under the hitch.

[Chuck White]

put the scale under the front outrigger and started cranking it down--Peter

There is a lot of leverage difference from the front outrigger and the end of the tongue.  I can easily lift the tongue of my mill (WM LT40 SuperHydraulic) at the hitch, but no way at the front outrigger.  To be accurate, the scale would have to be under the hitch.

I agree MM, I have the LT40HDG24 and I can pick up the front of my mill, near the hitch with one hand!
Therefore, turning it around on firm ground by hand is not a problem!

[Magicman]

I regularly swing mine around at a job site.  The hitch might be past a tree, bush, or even a building.  After sawing the job, just swing it back around.  I thought that was the way you were supposed to do it.....

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Not to be a smart a$$, but, did you run the saw head all the way to the far end of the track, to better balance the load

  Lots of people never think of that   

[pnyberg]

Magicman is right, the leverage at the hitch will be different than the leverage at the front outrigger.   I will try to work out a better test, and I have some guidance from another FF member on how to do this.   I'm doing this mostly because now I'm curious as to what my hitch weight actually is.  So we hope to find out, and I'll post the results.  It will be more than 60 pounds, I promise you.

As to running the saw head all the way to the to the far end of the track for "balance", I have done that, and I know exactly what happens.  The tail end crashes to the ground, and you can do chin-ups at the hitch end.

--Peter

[Magicman]

In the"travel" position, I doubt that mine weighs much more than 75 lbs.  If you ran the head to the far end, it would rear up big time  .  You would not want to do that !!!

[Dave Shepard]

Get a four foot piece of 2x and put one end on the scale, and the other on a block. Put your load in the middle, now you have doubled the capacity of your scale. Just double the reading.

[DanG]

You can run the head back without running it all the way back.   I'll guarantee you the hitch weight is not 300 pounds, and you can weigh that much on a bathroom scale.  It has to be level and on a firm surface to work, though.  If you need to weigh more than 300 pounds, you can use two of them with a board across them, just add the weights together.  You can get them at Walmart for six bucks.

[Dan_Shade]

you could take a handy-man or hi-lift jack and put it's base on the scale, then use the jack to lift the tongue.  that would give you tongue wieght, minus the weight of the jack.

Or you could cut a length of 2x4 or 4x4 or even 6x6 and put it on the scale standing vertically under the tongue, then use the front out rigger to lower the tongue onto the scale.  the hitch wieght would be the scale reading minus the weight of the block.

Or, if you have a pull scale, you could use it and a come-a-long to an overhead fixed point attached to the tongue.

I can spin my mill around by the tongue too.  But I know it's much heaver at the end of the day than it is in the morning 

[kelLOGg]

I can easily spin my lt30 around by hand in the "on the road position" on a firm flat surface.

I thought to tow anything there had to be weight (~10%) on the tongue or "fishtailing" or "weaving" would occur.

[Dan_Shade]

That's generally true, but doesn't seem to hold true to the Wood-mizer sawmills.  My only "guess" for why it's not a problem is that the center of gravity is so close to the axle with the sawhead being there.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Yeah, I was distracted and wrote all the way to the far end.
 Should have been "far enough" to provide better balance.
 We put our travel spot where the tongue is about 75 pounds.

[Magicman]

Looks like today's rain and what is forecasted for Wednesday, will shut me down this week.  Maybe I'll crank back up next Monday on a fairly large Red Oak and Cherry job.  I saw that Cherry standing, and it's B I G.  If it's solid, I'll have to take pictures.

A guy called today about a Cherry job.  I'll look at it Saturday.

On the road adventures never end.....

[backwoods sawyer]

I had the mill out on the backside of a 40-acre field. The trail in was a bit on the soft slippery side so I thru a big Oak log on the back of the boom truck and strapped it down, that took care of the traction issue.

With the command controls on the front of the mill, it adds a considerable amount of tongue weight compared to the walk along style mills. Maybe after I get the mill back home at the end of the week, I will weight the tongue with the head sitting on the travel pin.

[pnyberg]

Maybe after I get the mill back home at the end of the week, I will weight the tongue with the head sitting on the travel pin.

I just did that, and came up with about 330 pounds. 

[Tom]

Move the head back a smidgeon until you get less than 100lbs.  Too little weight and the trailer will sway or bounce off of the hitch.  Too much weight and your car/truck is taking a beating.

[Magicman]

Maybe after I get the mill back home at the end of the week, I will weight the tongue with the head sitting on the travel pin.

I just did that, and came up with about 330 pounds. 

You measured the hitch weight of a WM LT40G28 with the head sitting on the travel pin and came up with 330 lb.

[pnyberg]

You measured the hitch weight of a WM LT40G28 with the head sitting on the travel pin and came up with 330 lb.

Do I detect skepticism?  But it's true!  I neglected to take pictures.  Hopefully, Backwoods Sawyer will confirm this with a similar weight when he gets a chance.

I guess this is the downside to having the command control and board return options.

I appreciate Tom's suggestion, but don't see any way to relocate the travel pin aft.

--Peter

[Dan_Shade]

did you put the scale under the outrigger did you weigh it at the tongue?

[Magicman]

You measured the hitch weight of a WM LT40G28 with the head sitting on the travel pin and came up with 330 lb.

Do I detect skepticism?   I guess this is the downside to having the command control and board return options.
--Peter

Not skepticism....Shock .  I can't understand where that weight is coming from.  The command control would have to weigh 250 lbs.

I have a SuperHydraulic mill with dual hydraulics, board return, and all of the other options.  My hitch weight is less than 100 lbs.  I regularly move it around. 

[pnyberg]

did you put the scale under the outrigger did you weigh it at the tongue?

I did the outrigger the first time around, back earlier in this thread.  My error was pointed out.  This time it was at the tongue.

If we're looking to explain 250 pounds of excess weight, I think the command control station could account for most of that.  Beyond that, I have no explanation.

I think I'll make up a safety chain extension, that will let me move the head back enough to make the tongue weight manageable, but keep it from rolling back to the end.

--Peter

[customsawyer]

It has a safety chain on it now and I would bet if you raised the head up and let it move to the back of that chain with the front out rigger extended a bit more than normal it would be alot less.

[Tom]

You shouldn't have to move the travel pin, just the hole that it fits in.  you could move the hole to the rear of the head or even weld, or bolt, a piece of metal on the bottom of the shroud to extend the hole.  The travel pin could remain on the bunk, couldn't it?

[Magicman]

That travel pin is where it is for a reason.  It lets the saw head rest between the outriggers, etc.  I'd be very careful and thoughtful before attempting to move it's travel position.

I don't have Command Control, so I can't speak to that issue.  Isn't it taken off and moved around at the job site?  If so, surely it doesn't weigh 250 lbs.

Just a question.  Are you carrying the board return "shelf" in it's carry position in the rear?  I don't carry mine.  If I did, the tongue weight would be even less.

[customsawyer]

Another thing that I just thought of is the small table that sits just behind the hyd. box used to be carried to the back of the mill and I think it stays on the front now correct me if I'm wrong, but that would add some more wieght to the hitch.

[Magicman]

Just a question.  Are you carrying the board return "shelf" in it's carry position in the rear?  I don't carry mine.  If I did, the tongue weight would be even less.

Another thing that I just thought of is the small table that sits just behind the hyd. box used to be carried to the back of the mill and I think it stays on the front now correct me if I'm wrong, but that would add some more wieght to the hitch.

Maybe that's the answer.  My carry position for the shelf is in the rear.  Is it in the front now?

[Papa1stuff]

I have a 2008 Super and the board return stays in front!

[backwoods sawyer]

 




304lb - 7lb(blocking) = 297lb I knew it was more then I wanted to just pick up and pack around. There seems to be quite a bit of difference in weight from mill to mill. Having the extra hoses, the agus track and the bed that it sits in, as well as the command controls puts quite a bit more weight on the hitch. As does not having the board return table on the back as a counter balance. 

[Tom]

Maybe the simplest way to balance it woud be to make (weld) a tool box for the back of the mill.  Then you would have to go buy a couple of hundred pounds of tools.   Oh dear!  That would be dreadful. 

[ljmathias]

Tom, your a man after my own heart- you can never have too many tools.  Only problem with hauling them around is that they might "disappear" while you cutting someones logs, when they happen to need a tool that they just happen to see in your now-open box...

Back to the topic, though: I don't miss being portable at all; wasn't cutting much for anyone else any way and I certainly find enough adventures stationary to keep my adrenalin addiction satisfied.

Lj

[backwoods sawyer]

I had a customer drop off a few logs while I was out of town. I had to move them to the ditch to get in the driveway, and he asked “did you notice the logs I dropped off for you?” That is not the way to jump to the front of the line around here. Milling on the road keeps all of the mess out of my driveway.

[Magicman]

they just happen to see in your now-open box...Lj   

The main reason to keep your tool box closed and also your truck doors and windows closed is to prevent "sawdust drift" from gradually depositing a layer inside of the tool box and inside of your truck.  My habit is to always keep everything closed.......

[Chuck White]

they just happen to see in your now-open box...Lj   

The main reason to keep your tool box closed and also your truck doors and windows closed is to prevent "sawdust drift" from gradually depositing a layer inside of the tool box and inside of your truck.  My habit is to always keep everything closed.......

I learned that lesson way back when I was still sawing with my FIL's LT40G18 Manual.
Don't seem to matter where you park the truck, if you leave a door or window open, you have sawdust inside!

[stonebroke]

Maybe the simplest way to balance it woud be to make (weld) a tool box for the back of the mill.  Then you would have to go buy a couple of hundred pounds of tools.   Oh dear!  That would be dreadful. 

You could always make a rack and hang a couple tractor weights on the back.They are designed to be takened on and off.

Stonebroke

[customsawyer]

Magicman the only thing I can't keep shut is my mouth.

[Magicman]

Magicman the only thing I can't keep shut is my mouth.

Nothing like flossing for sawdust.....   Seriously, we've all found out that if it's open, it'll catch sawdust.....

I'm back on the road again tomorrow for another "adventure".  A nice size cherry job, with nice size logs.  I'll take some pictures.

[backwoods sawyer]

I have never had an issue with loosing tools or ending up with extra tools. I picked up some florescent green paint and sprayed some on each of the tools that I take on the road with me. It just saves on any confusion over tools at the end of the day. I like to have my tools on the truck and keep it near the front of the mill so they are handy.

[nas]

Well I headed out to do a mobile job for my Wife's uncle, up in Markdale, about 2 hours north of here.  I checked the forecast and they were calling for snow flurries, and just below freezing temp, not much more.  I left my place, and there was some light flurries and lots of wind.  20KM from my destination and the skies opened and I was in a blizzard the rest of the way. I could see about 10' in front of my hood, and was having trouble staying on the road.  Well as it turns out, Markdale is in the lee of the widest part of Lake Huron and gets more snow than anywhere in Ontario.  I made it there in time for lunch and went out and cleared snow for the afternoon.  Stayed overnight and got about 6 hrs of work done and headed home, still in the snow.  By the time I left they had at least 18" of snow, and more was coming down.  Will have to make another trip up there hopefully in better weather.
 


Uncles house in the morning
 




My mill in the morning
 


Yes there is a pile of logs under there

Nick

[Magicman]

Looks like it's time to let the WM sleep......for now anyway.     

[bandmiller2]

I've never had anything but a stationary mill.Do any of you set up one of those portable tents to keep the sun/rain off at least at the sawyers end??or are they more trouble than their worth??Frank C.

[Chuck White]

I've never had anything but a stationary mill.Do any of you set up one of those portable tents to keep the sun/rain off at least at the sawyers end??or are they more trouble than their worth??Frank C.

I don't have one, but I've been thinking about getting and using one!
It would keep the sun from taking it's toll on the operator and the off bearer!
Most likely you'd get a more productive day out of it too!

Chuck

[Magicman]

I have an umbrella attached to my "driver's seat".  It probably lowers the temperature 10 degrees...
 

[Hilltop366]

and there was some light flurries and lots of wind.  20KM from my destination a
Nick

Nick if only we could get some of that 20km wind it's been blowing 50 to 100 km for 4 days I don't dare go in the woods for fear of getting hit by a falling tree!

[nas]

It wasn't the wind that was 20KM, it was me that was 20KM from Markdale!  The wind was definitely gusting well above 50KMPH

Nick

[Hilltop366]

  Oops that makes more sense.