Home Built Band Mill Questions

[edwardj_]

Hello all.  I am new to this forum and also new to sawing lumber.   The Small engine/ bike shop I work at has a Jobber brand mill that we set up this summer.  I have been playing around with it and have decided that while it is functional it is a little slow and pricey for me.  I intend to build a mill either later this winter or next spring.  I was thinking of using (i think this is right) Bill rakes concept.  With the two vehicle rim/tires and a gas engine.  I currently have a 9hp honda engine for the power-head.  For wheels i was thinking I could use a pair of the spare tires from my car.  They measure 20 inches across.  My biggest question right now is blades.  Might be a odd q this early in the planning but it is what I am figuring right now.  I would like to know how thick of a blade to run.  I am looking to have a blade that is 144" long.  my options are .035, .042, .045, and .055.  from what I have read i should try and stay thin so it is less likely to snap.  If I use .o35 then I am only looking at blades with the 10* teeth.  I will be sawing Dead stands of pine and some green or seasoned white poplar.  Those are about the only trees in my area that are easy to get.  Was thinking the 7* blades would be best?  Will be running with frozen logs for a good portion of the year.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[fishpharmer]

edwardj, welcome to forestry forum.  This is the place to learn about mills of all types.  There are several Rake style mills around the forum.  Including mine.  I wouldn't have my mill up and running if not for my friends here on Forestry Forum.  Click on my photo gallery under my user name.  There are lots of great folks here that will help you out.  I have enjoyed my mill building experience, learned alot about mills.  Yet I still look forward to becoming a sawyer more so than a mill builder.

You are asking good questions.  I would offer one tidbit of advice in your first mill building experience.  Try to stick with the Rake plan as much as possible.  I tried to reinvent the wheel so to speak.  Sorta my nature. But stick with the plan as much as possible.  I see no reason your engine and tires won't work.  I am sure some with much more experience will chime in.

Is there a reason you want a 144 inch band?   They can be made any length.  My bands are 21.5 feet long. In MS frozen logs are a rare thing.  So I can't help you with angle or thickness. 

 One other thing you may want to consider is the value of your time.   If you need lumber buying a mill may not be a bad option.

[edwardj_]

Well the reason I am looking at a 144" blade is with the logs we have here there is no need to go all that big...   If I am figuring everything right then that will give me about 20" of blade for cutting with.  I will have to see how it looks as I start my build.  I may decide to go a bit bigger and may go with larger wheels as well.  If I stick to the 9hp engine and go too big with wheels i might start to limit rate of cut due to the extra mass I will be spinning.  I picked a number that was a common size from the different band suppliers I have been looking at.  A few I have talked to charge in 20" increments.  for instance the mill we have at work uses 109" blades but it costs the same as 120" ones.  not sure if that maters or not to me yet.  As for the time issue.  Right now I am kinda pinching time and money.  More so the money side.  There will be no way for me to save the money required to buy a ready made mill any time soon.  So building is my option.  I have access to a metal lathe and a Steel mill where I work as well as scrap steel and various other supplies I will need.  To be honest even if I decide to "e-invent the wheel" so to speak  I will find just as much or more satisfaction from building the mill as useing it.  I honestly havent bought a plan for the mill but have been looking at bany sites and forums pics to see what people are doing and the comments on each.   Thanks for the advice though. 

[fishpharmer]

Edward it sounds like you have the skills and resources to build a mill.  Go
for it.  I don't think you ever have too much horsepower.  In hindsight
I should not have made mine so wide.  Guess thats why I say stick with the
plan.  Plan is for 24 inches. 

[bandmiller2]

Ed,go for it its not rocket science.First choose a band best to get a common legnth like whats used on a woodmizer lt40,having the band first will aid construction.You don't need to buy plans just look at as many mills as you can choose the things you like best from each.Plan right from the start to have hydraulics and power feed even if its a seperate engine to run the pump.Build everything adjustable,build with precision,build heavy duty.I like to use heavy wall square tube strong looks good and its easy to work with can be drilled and tapped,and the next size can slide over it.Keep us posted,plan ahead and don't rush. Frank C.

[T Red]

In hindsight I should not have made mine so wide. 

How wide is yours?  What is the downside to having it wider? 

[fishpharmer]

Here is a picture.  It will cut 48 inches wide and 48 high.  I made it to cut a 48 inch diameter log.  I began with a Bill Rake plan and then built it totally different.  I am satisfied with what I have now.  I began building in 2005 and just recently fixed everything where it cuts really well.  What I gather from the very very knowledgeable folks on this forum wider isn't so much of a mass issue as it is the friction.  If you have enough hp to get everything turning a proper speed, the friction is what taxes the hp.  The wider the board the more drag on the blade.  I think this can be overcome to some degree just by moving the blade slowly thru the wood.    Also, alignment is more difficult with a wide cut. 

I have not really gotten into anything much wider than the log pictured below.

The log sitting on the bed is 24 inches on the big end (near the sawhead).  I did not have any trouble sawing it with a sharp blade.  Do a search and read all you can about homemade mills.  In my infinite wisdom, I didn't do any of that until I had nearly completed the mill 

[James P.]

fishpharmer ,DanG thats a pretty mill.
Edwardj the band thickness chart I have says wheels 18-24" .032  24 -30" .035  30" higher .042 now that iss what a book on band saws says.

[fishpharmer]

Edward when you get really good, build yourself a circle mill like James P.

[edwardj_]

Out of curiosity what do you mean by a circle mill?  Like a swing mill?   

OK i looked at his pics...  ...   not sure I want one of that type mill...  seems a little over kill for me.

[fishpharmer]

I mean circular sawmill.  Which I suppose includes a swingmill.  But I was talking about the old timey type with one big circular sawblade 40-60+ inches in diameter.  The sawblade only rotates and is otherwise stationary.  The log is held on a carriage by "dogs".  The carriage moves forward and back to make one cut of a log. 

Okay, or you could look at his pictures. 

Now I see you did.  Well that probably wasn't a good description anyway. 

[edwardj_]

It actually wasnt a bad description.  Old school mill would have been sufficient though.  I have seen a couple of old ones out in fields and dont think I need one of them for the log size we have here.   

[beenthere]

Usually circular mill doesn't include the swing mills.    Good description fishpharmer

[Al_Smith]

As a coincidence I am also in the process of building a bandsaw mill myself .

The first usage of rubber tires I ever saw was on a pallet dissasembley sliding table saw .Rakes does alright though .

In my case the framework is a 27 foot truck frame .Nice heavy and straight ,8" rails .Hydraulic tensioner and feed via a hydramoter and chain .16 HP Briggs .If that won't get-er done I have a 34 HP Wisconsin . Ford escort cv joint drive .(thought that one up all by my lonesome )

I'm only shooting for 36" on the cut because seldom do you run into much more than that in this area .If so,larger log,I have some big old 120 cc saws that can rip real well .
 I plan on using Woodmizer bands,11/4" by 45 thou 160 to 167 " ,whatever works out the best .
This site has wealth of info regarding homebuilts as well as do several other sites .

[fishpharmer]

Usually circular mill doesn't include the swing mills.    Good description fishpharmer

okay, thanks. I hate it when my ignorance becomes obvious.

[T Red]

James P what book on bandsaws are you referring to?

[edwardj_]

Another question I have relating to blades...  how fast should I be spinning it?  Our jobber mill (if I am figuring right) is turning the blade at about 3400 feet per minute.  Does that sound right?  I have read a couple places that I should be closer to 5000.  Is there a safe maximum speed or is it all user preference?

[york]

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Band_Mill_Blade_Speed.html

[backwoods sawyer]

above 4,600 ft you start getting distortion in the saw loop.

[fishpharmer]

I am sure  most any band blade or band saw manufacturer that you see over to the left of this page can give you some good advice on blades and blade speed.  I had several long conversations with Cooks Saw concerning blades.  I now use the SuperSharp's.  Seems they told me to keep my fpm below 5000.  I did what they said and don't remember exactly what it was they told me.  My saw cuts fine.  My saw runs around 4800-4900 fpm. , according to the bandspeed calculator in the toolbox found at the top of this page.

http://www.forestryforum.com/members/donp/bandspeedcalc.htm