Brand new mill, brand new 'sawyers' updated w/ pics!

[Piston]

Okay so I know I can't refer to myself as a "sawyer" yet, but hey it helps my ego....

Here goes:
I've wanted a mill forever now and everyone around me is sick of hearing about them, except a few that are now just as hooked as I am.  Well a friend of mine went out and sort of 'spontaneously' bought an LT-15 with a diesel and one bed extension.  He came up to my house one day and we messed around a bit on it just to play.  Neither of us have any experience with a mill.  I have read tons of threads on here over the years and have a general idea but I know reading can only get you so far. 

He is coming up to my place again with his mill (and now 2 bed extensions) in a couple weeks and we are going to mill some timbers for a frame I want to build.  We need some advice regarding a few things. 

We are both generally 'safe' people but can you point out some specifics of some things we don't want to learn the hard way?  Something like obviously not standing next to the sawdust outlet in case the blade breaks and goes flying out or things like that?  Also we will be taking turns offloading and running the mill so where is the best place to stand while offloading? 

Here is a pic of the frame I want to build:  (14X24)



Here is my timber list which has the length's rounded up.  (sorry for the format, can't seem to get it to all line up after pasting)

Name                              Qty   W   D   L(ft)   L(in)   BF
Sill-8X8X14                         2   8   9   16   158   192.00
Sill-8X8X20                         2   8   8   28   288   298.67
Top Plate-8X8X24                 2   8   8   28   288   298.67
Floor Joist-5X7X14               10   5   7   16   152   466.67
Girt-5X5 WallB                         2        5   5   14   124   58.33
Door Post-B1-5X5                 2   5   5   10   86   41.67
Girt (back) 4X6                         1   4   6   16   154   32.00
Girt 4X6                                 3   4   6   14   133   84.00
Loft Joist-4X6X12                 5   4   6   14   132   140.00
Girt (front) 4X6                         2        4   6   8   52   32.00
Girt-WB 4X6 for Door Post      2   4   6   6   30   24.00
Collar Tie-3X5                         2   3   5   12   102   30.00
Header 3X5                         1   3   5   8   62   10.00
Brace-3X5                              8           3   5   6   39   60.00
Total                                         44                                      1768.00

I guess where we need the most advice, is to get the log down to the 8X8 or 5X7 or whatever we're milling it to, we will obviously be making usable lumber to get to that size timber.  So should we try to cut a bunch of 4/4 or 5/4 material for things like siding, flooring, roofing, and all that good stuff?  Should I use 2X for flooring or would something smaller be more than enough. 
The thing is, I don't really have a specific use in mind for the frame, it's just a project I've ALWAYS wanted to do.  It started off as the 12X16 Garden Toolshed but just ended up growing.  So now I'm thinking I may use it for a shed/workshop, or maybe a cabin on some land I have in NH, or maybe just....I don't know, something...

So any "words of wisdom" from all you experienced people out there.....for us 'less than brilliant' rookie's at this?   

Disclaimer:  Don't expect us to actually get all these timbers milled, or even come close to doing a good job....we're slow learners 
I will however, post some pics and an update after we've milled a bit.  Our goal is to have some fun with the mill, not kill ourselves, and maybe even get some usable lumber out of the deal!

[Magicman]

I'd use a bit more lumber and add rafters to the list....   Seriously, just have fun and learn the mill and enjoy sawing.

And BTW, Welcome to actually sawing......

[Tom]

Safety wise, stay behind the head of the mill when the blade is turning.
Off-bear in the opposite direction that the blade is cutting. 

That puts the off-bearer and the sawyer behind the band.

The band is enclosed in the shroud and the log.  There's not much exposed, but don't get complacent.

More injuries occur handling the logs and lumber than from the mill itself.  Don't get in a big hurry. 

One of the biggest safety features around a band mill is a keeping the work area neat.   Stack slabs, don't just throw them.  Stack lumber securely and move a tall stack before it falls. Stay away from logs that are being loaded.  Use your cant hook from the end of the log or lift from behind the log.  If you have the hook so high that you have to push it, you will go flying if it comes unhooked.  Hook the log low and lift the handle with the muscles in your legs.  Use blocks of wood in the center of the log to turn the log rather than trying to muscle it around.

Don't work faster than your partner.

Link to some drawings and a thread on production

[ljmathias]

Welcome!  Looks like you've got just the right mix of things to really learn and do something productive at the same time.  First thing: you're in the midst of an area rich with sawmills.  Rather than trying to learn it all on your own, why not track down a friendly living nearby and spend some time "apprenticing" with him?  Couple of weekends helping somewhere else cut will give you both safety and productivity tips/habits that will do you good- lots easier to learn by doing than reading or watching, and a lot safer.

Second, why not try TF something smaller first?  There are TF sawhorses that are fun to build, teach all the basics and are very useful as well.  In fact, some of the schools up there offer weekend classes to learn to build a set; by-product is you meet a lot of people in the same boat as you but who might also want some wood cut...

Third, be aware that you're going down a path that will be addictive on both hands- cutting lumber and making something out of using TF methods.

Last, keep coming back to the forum- search the archives and read threads (like that of Thomas-in-Kentucky) to find out the trials and tribulations of others that have led to learning and skill development.  Life is constant learning, and you're on the path that will provide that.  Good luck and remember: safety is mostly common sense which isn't all that common and requires hard thinking.

Lj

[Jim_Rogers]

why not track down a friendly living nearby and spend some time "apprenticing" with him? 

I'd be available with an appointment to come to your site and help you get started milling timbers. Just let me know what day and time you'll be doing it and I'll plan on coming over. There are some basics that you both should learn...

And one of them is to learn to plan your cuts correctly so that you'll box heart your timbers.

You should have my phone number, but if not, I'll send you a PM and or you can get it off my webpage.

Jim Rogers

[bandmiller2]

Piston,the biggest danger is from handling logs most will be in the one ton range.Set up the mill level ,have bunks to set the logs on so they can be rolled on the mill.Not good form to use a machine to put logs directly on the mill.Trim nubs off the logs and brush off any stones mud and grit.Do you have a good supply of logs??When cutting a bill of goods i try to cut the long big stuff first,you will get many boards as a byproduct.Long timbers its critical to line the log on the mill properly,raise the head and measure boath ends before cutting ,as Jim says best to box the timbers,smaller stuff I don't worry about.Frank C.

[Magicman]

From a safety standpoint, when handling logs, always wear safety(steel) toed boots.  I never leave home without them.

[solidwoods]

Congrats on the new mill.
Felling/skidding/handling logs is one of the most risky parts of milling.
Using a cant hook can be dangerous if you have a misshap.  Cant hooks are something foreign to us and some very strong and quick forces are involved.
Also if you get a small piece of wood hung up in the mill, stop the moving parts or use a long stick to move it.
Don't remove/install a blade with the engine running.

For the project:
Work shop to make wood products.
Kiln with greenhouse on the south face.
Sell them as a kit.
Mill shed.
Lumber storeage shed.
Kids playhouse (later use storeage shed)
jim

[Bear]

Hey piston congrates on getting a mill. I was looking at you lumber list and you must have some good size trees laying around for a 24 ft long top plate. My only suggestion would be make sure you have alot of help when your moving those pieces around. PM me if you need some help i'm not to far from your area and would love to give you a hand.

[Piston]

I'd use a bit more lumber and add rafters to the list....  

haha, hey thanks for pointing that out, you made me realize I posted the wrong list....Here is the real one, although probably still some errors!                       

Name                        Qty   W   D   L(ft)   L(in)   BF
Sill-8X8X14                 2   8   9   16   158   192.00
Sill-8X8X20                 2   8   8   28   288   298.67
Top Plate-8X8X24         2   8   8   28   288   298.67
Tie Beam-8X8X14          3   8   8   16   152   256.00
Post-8X8X10                 6       8   8   14   124   448.00
Floor Joist-5X7X14       10   5   7   16   152   466.67
Rafter-5X5X12 (Mortised)   10   5   5   16   144   333.33
Rafter-5X5X12 (Tenon)   10   5   5   16   144   333.33
Girt-5X5 WallB                 2   5   5   14   124   58.33
Door Post-B1-5X5         2   5   5   10   86   41.67
Girt (back) 4X6                 1   4   6   16   154   32.00
Girt 4X6                         3   4   6   14   133   84.00
Loft Joist-4X6X12         5   4   6   14   132   140.00
Girt (front) 4X6   2         4   6   8   52   32.00
Girt-WB 4X6 for Door Post   2   4   6   6   30   24.00
Collar Tie-3X5                 2   3   5   12   102   30.00
Header 3X5                 1   3   5   8   62   10.00
Brace-3X5   14                 3   5   6   39   105.00
Total                               79                3183.67


I can't seem to make that format work!

why not try TF something smaller first?

That cerainly would be the smart thing to do... 

I'd be available with an appointment to come to your site and help you get started milling timbers.

Jim,
That is an excellent idea, I will PM you as I can't call, away at work right now.  Might even have to have you bring me a slick if your making the trip!

 

I was looking at you lumber list and you must have some good size trees laying around for a 24 ft long top plate. My only suggestion would be make sure you have alot of help when your moving those pieces around.

Well....not exactly laying around right now, still standing    But yes I do have a good supply of some nice sized EWP that I will be using.  Thanks for the offer to help out, I'll shoot you a PM.  I do have an old backhoe and CUT with pallet forks on the 3pt hitch to help us out with moving timbers/trees/lumber around.

I don't expect to get all the timbers milled up that are on my list.  In fact I'm thinking it may be better to do about half of them or so, and then work on cutting some joinery, and then mill the rest.  Is that a better idea?  I'm just thinking that it is going to take me a looooong time to cut joinery, especially considering I'm gonna mess up a lot!  I am planning on cutting many 'practice' joints in a sacrificial timber before I start on the frame. 

I still need to set up a staging area for the logs, cut down some trees, and get them to the staging area.  Also need to set up an area for stickering and stacking.  I don't have any dry hardwood yet and I know I'm not supposed to use wet stickers, so I may be forced to buy some cheap 1x and rip it into 1X1's.  That will kill me to spend money on stickers...but what am I gonna do? 

[Thelittleguy]

As the owner of the new mill and co-worker of Piston I just want to say thanks in advance for all the help guys as a new owner and new Sawyer I feel like I will be spending alot of time on the forum and asking lots of questions and looking for any advice I can get. I also plan on buying some new tenon cutting tools for starting on the log furniture side of things so all those smaller logs and limbing does not go to waste.

[Piston]

HA!  I knew I could get you to join!

[Tom]

Welcome to the Forum, Little guy.

[Dave Shepard]

Welcome to the Forum, Thelittleguy!

The method I use to make a nice square timber is to flip 180° after I open up the first face. If the mill is aligned properly, then this gives you two parallel faces. Then I turn 90, and use a framing square to square the log to the bed then take off another slab. If you were square to the bed, you now have  a perfectly square corner. Over 180 again and you have a square timber. I usually don't open up any of my faces to the finished timber dimension. I like to leave one 1x board on each dimension so that I have a clean up board on the last cut. As you remove boards on different faces, the cant may have a tendency to crown a little. By flipping frequently, you can minimize that. I know you don't want to hear that on a manual mill. White pine doesn't move around much, unless you have a lot of reaction wood. Leaning trees typically move the most. Don't be disappointed if your timbers aren't perfectly square. You can compensate for that with your layout, however it does make it easier if they are as square as possible.

I wish I was closer to help you with getting started. Fortunately you have Jim out your way. The best advice I have to offer regarding the TF portion of your project is that layout is vitally important. If you have a slight error in marking out your joinery, it can be very frustrating when you start cutting. For example, I was having trouble getting good end cuts on timbers, and square shoulders. It turns out that I wasn't getting my layout lines lined up around the end of the timber properly. I was using a pencil that was too blunt, and getting the lines just a little off. I sacrificed a timber and made a bunch of end cuts until I felt comfortable that I could make a square cut.

What books, if any, do you have on Timber Framing? I like the Sobon books myself.

[Captain]

Welcome thelittleguy and congrats.  Put me on the list of folks willing to help and wanting to hear the progress you and piston are making.

Captain

[Jim_Rogers]

Piston:
I got your email and will respond to that.

Welcome Thelittleguy, all I can say is read, read, read.....so you'll have the benefit of the group.....

As for stickers, you can use the edgings of your own stock, if you want to use them for the timbers you can. You may get some sticker shadow on the timbers but if it's just a shop frame you may not need to worry about that. Sometimes a 2x2 maybe better for timbers.

What you can do is make up some pallets from your extra stock so that you have a place to stack your stickers and once you start making them stack them up nice and neat and they will dry so you can use them for your own boards and planks.

Some people may call this a skid as it doesn't have any bottom boards but this is what I call a home made pallet, for storing stickers on:



The vertical pieces are 2x6x4' and they are usually just pine. Spaced 36" to the outside of the runner or leg (two different names I have given them). Next is the deck boards, in this drawing they are just 1x6x4'(low grade pine boards, sometimes with worm holes and waney edges). Above the deck boards are some of my stickers and these are nailed to the pallet when made so that they stay with the pallet and make an air space for the bottom row stickers to dry.

I make my stickers out of edgings off the mill, and therefore they are 1" thick. As we edge lumber if it doesn't clean up at say 10" wide then we'd drop two inches and cut again, to make the board an 8" piece. This produces a 2" wide piece of scrap with some bark or waney edge. This strips of wood are cut to 4' lengths to create stickers.

Here is a shot of some of my stickers and a pallet of them being created:



I put some stickers between each row and create a pallet full of these for drying.

You'll need to measure your forks and see how wide they will open up to in order to understand how to space your runners or legs of your pallet, so that you can easily pick up and move your stack once created. Or just use the dimension I have suggested. Also you need to measure the height of the forks so that the pallet doesn't get too tall and be taller then the back rests of your forks if you have back rests. This will prevent the pile from tipping off the stack when moving the pallet in your yard.

Here is a drawing of a full stack of stickers that I would create and store for drying:



In real life these stickers may have some waney edges, but they will do the trick once they have air dried for a while.

I have used two different ways to cut the edgings to length to create stickers. One way is to use a chop saw and set up a fence with some marks on it so that you can see how long 4' is and slide the edging over to the mark on the fence and then cut this to length. Then slide over and cut another one.

Or if you don't have electricity at your site you can create a cutting block and cut them with a chain saw.

To do that what I have done is cut out a block say 5x5x12' long and attach some scrap stickers to it with some nails. To make it easy to understand where to cut them I place these stickers vertically onto the cutting block and space them so that the gap between the sticks will be where the chain saw bar will slide down when cutting the stack. So what this means is the cutting block does the measuring for you. You lay it out once, like this:



Then you stack your long edgings into this cutting block like this:



Now you can take your chain saw and cut off the ends and cut down between the upright stickers and this will create stickers 4' long.

The cutting block in this drawing is 5x5x12' long and the edgings are 14' long, but when you stack your edgings in and they are different lengths you just adjust where you stack them and make one end flush with one end of the cutting block if that end is good. If the end isn't good then let it hang out and trim it off. The upright stickers hold the entire stack in place while you cut them. Sometimes I have added an outrigger to the bottom of the cutting block so that the stack is stable and won't fall over while your stacking up your edgings, while you're cutting your stickers, or unloading the block after cutting.

Once your block has fallen over, you'll know what I mean...


Hope this helps....

[Dave Shepard]

Nice drawings Jim. Have you ever used green pine stickers on green pine lumber for air-drying? Just wondering if there is a mold problem.

[Ernie]

Thanks Jim, a great idea for stickers, both makin them and storing them.

[woodmills1]

what program do you use to produce the nice drawings here?

[Jim_Rogers]

Dave Shepard:
Yes, I have stored green pine on green stickers, and yes there can be a mold problem with doing that.
But when you first start out and all you've got is a pile of logs and a sawmill, you have to make what you need, and you have to use what you have. We didn't want to buy lumber to cut up to make stickers. So we created a solar sticker dryer and we dried our own oak stickers for storing high quality lumber.
These Oak stickers have lasted me 15 years.
I make and use pine stickers as well, but we don't solar kiln dry them just air dry them. And they seem to work ok.

Woodmills1:
Those drawings are from my professional timber framing drawing program....

Ernie: Thanks for your comments.

Jim Rogers

[Piston]

I like to leave one 1x board on each dimension so that I have a clean up board on the last cut.

I wish I was closer to help you with getting started.

What books, if any, do you have on Timber Framing? I like the Sobon books myself.

Hey Dave,
That is good idea about leaving the 1x board as a clean up board, I never would have thought of that.  That would be nice if you were closer, It would be nice to meet you, after all your partially responsible for me getting into this!   

Piston, there's some millers in your area. Captain, and bandmiller2 should be somewhere near you. There's always plenty of people around the forum to answer your questions too. Just be careful, we might try and talk you into buying a mill and building your own house. We'll have you up in Georgetown at the Jim Rogers Institute for Timber Framing.
Dave

As for the books, I've read:
Timber Frame Construction, All About Post and Beam Building by Jack Sobon....  read this one 3 times front to back.
Build a Classic Timber Framed House by Jack Sobon.... Read through this one twice front to back.
Building the Timber Frame House: The Revival of a Forgotten Art by Tedd Benson...Read this one 3 times front to back as well.
Timber-Frame Home by Tedd Benson  read this one twice front to back.

Also have gone back to all 4 of those multiple times for reference when I was 'curious' about something.  I have them all marked up in highlighter, notes, and post it notes marking certain sections.
I really like the two Sobon books and also really like the first Benson book I listed, a lot of good diagrams and step by step instructions for cutting joints. 

I still need to read:
A Timber Framer's Workshop: Joinery, Design & Construction of Traditional Timber Frames by Steve K. Chappell

Thanks for reminding me, I should order that tonight. 

I really have done a ton of reading on the forum as well, I honestly think I just need to dive in now and start getting actual experience.  I want to take the Heartwood class but it hasn't fit into my work schedule for 2 yrs now.  I almost signed up for the Yestermorrow class in Jan but I'll miss that one by 2 days...Can't seem to make it work! 

Jim thanks for those drawings and explanations, you put a lot of time into teaching others and I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say thanks. 

[Magicman]

Thelittleguy,  Welcome to FF.......   Glad to have both of you now.

[Jim_Rogers]

We'll have you up in Georgetown at the Jim Rogers Institute for Timber Framing. 

Wow.... how'd I miss that post.....Institute for Timber Framing...... sounds like a good name to put on the sign over my door.....
Right below this one:



Like this:



Wouldn't that be a good laugh.....

[sdunston]

Welcome to the FF guys and congrats on the LT15. I am also new to sawing with my LT28 and am learning that every log is a different task. I have to say that woodmizer offers a 6 dvd set that is very helpful and it covers alot from blades to site layout and some good info on stress in a log and quarter sawing and at 59 bucks it beats watching reruns on tv on a raining day
Sam

[Jim_Rogers]

We had a great afternoon yesterday.
I didn't take any pictures but Piston did.
Hopefully he'll post some.

Thelittleguy ain't that little either.....

But they have a nice setup and made some nice lumber......

Was fun and they're off to a good start.....

[bandmiller2]

Spent the afternoon with Piston ,little guy and Jim Rogers.Jim gave the boys a crash course in timber " figgerin" some of it over the head of this old circle sawyer.I was impressed with the diesel LT-15 seemed to have plenty of power,and just the right amount of diesel rattle,you know its a diesel but not noisy.Boath are good guys,smart,and are taking to milling like ducks to water.I'am sure their are pictures to follow.Frank C.

[fishpharmer]

Welcome to FF littleguy.

Great info on this thread too. 

[ljmathias]

So where are the pictures already?  Sounds like a great time, and just what this forum is all about- experienced guys helping out the ones with less or none...

Lj

[Piston]

Just a quick note, I will have pics updated hopefully tomorrow, just waiting for thelittleguy to email them to me.  I will post a good update of what we went over soon.  I am goin under the knife tomorrow for surgery so if I'm coherent tomorrow night I will update then. 
Special thanks to Frank and Jim, a wealth of information. 
Update with pics to follow, sorry for the delay. 

[ljmathias]

Good luck on the surgery- I've had two major operations in the last three years; hate to say it, but you kinda get used to it as long as you wake up in one piece after; problem is, more and more you don't- pieces replaced or just gone missing.  Surgeons are getting pretty good nowadays- they've been practicing on all of us long enough, I'd guess they should be.  Hope you got good insurance, and we'll enjoy the pictures whenever you get them up.  Take care and our prayers go with you.

Lj

[beenthere]

Wish you well and God's speed with the surgery. Look forward to hearing from you soon, and on the mend.

[Piston]

Okay I'm back....I'll try not to be too long winded in my update and just post a bunch of pics. 

Taking it back a few weeks, to when Thelittleguy first bought the mill, no one was expecting him to buy one and he kept it quiet, just pulled into my driveway with this on the back of his truck.....
 



We didn't waste anytime getting it unloaded and set up, it took about 2 hours from the beginning to the time we were sawing. 
 




Then we were sawing for our very first time....with the mill set up right in my front yard....
 



More to follow.....

[fishpharmer]

Glad you made it thru the surgery. 

Nice setup.   

[Piston]

So fast forwarding a few weeks to this past Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday.  We made Monday our set up day, so we could be sure the mill was set up right, level, had logs staged and ready to go, and were ready for our 'class' on Tuesday afternoon.
Here is our setup...
 



and with some of our logs staged on our brand new milled runners (okay what do you call the the logs that you set up for the other logs to roll on??)


Before I forget, you can see in this pic that we milled some timbers to set the mill up on, it wasn't perfectly level ground but it worked out well, the slight hill slopes the logs towards the mill, letting gravity help us out when loading the logs.  We also milled the runners so that they were level with the mill, this way the logs don't crash down onto the mill when we are rolling them on, and in the process kicking the setup out of level.



For all you Husky vs. Stihl folks, they both worked equally well 
 







Here is one of the logs we brought to the mill, this is actually the only one we skidded out of the woods on the ground, only because we couldn't get the tractor into the woods and setup our little 'log trailer', the rest of the logs were carried on a homemade trailer on the top end, and chained the butt end to the forks on the 3pt hitch, this way we could skid the logs without touching the ground, keeping them nice and clean for the mill. 
 






We finished up the day Monday after dark, with the truck lights aiming at the mill finishing up the runners (or whatever they are called)  We knew we had to be ready for Jim and Frank, we didn't want to look like fools to the experienced guys by not even being ready to saw when they got there.

[Tom]

Those rails you put the logs on are commonly called a Log Deck.  A "live Deck" would have a motor that would move the logs forward toward the mill.  Some call them a Ramp, and I've heard other terms as well.

Looks like you have a cool operation and not unlike most, experienced or not. 

That's one good looking little mill.

[Piston]

This brings us to Tuesday.  Jim and Frank (JimRodgers and Bandmiller2 respectively) showed up at just about the same time.  We started out just talking about the mill, some different parts, settings, what to look for in a log, how to stack the logs, and all sorts of setup type information.  We probably spent a good hour or so just learning about setup and basics of milling, before we even started up Thelittleguys new LT-15 diesel.  After some basics on rolling the log onto the mill, eyeing it up to see which face should be face 1, reading the log ends to determine which way to orient any cracks, and leveling the log the proper way-we finally cut into our first log, here it is.....a short ugly log to start with.

From left to right is Frank, Jim, and Bobby (Thelittleguy-mill owner) ....oh ya, and Caymen, the golden retriever.



And here is our first few boards, edged and stacked, with some 3x5's in the background.
 



What was really great about the whole day, is we would make one cut, shut off the mill, and get another lesson from Jim and Frank.  This way it wasn't too much information at one time.  Jim really is an excellent teacher, you can tell from all his posts both in this forum and the timberframing section, but in person, it is even more noticeable.  We really learned an incredible amount that day, the biggest advantage was learning all the small tips of the trade that would have taken YEARS to learn.  We never realized there were so many things involved with getting the most out of a log, and the right way to do it.  Frank is used to his circle mill, and brought a lot of great info from 'another point of view' it really was great to have both of them bounce tips and tricks our way. 
Alright back to business....Since we didn't have any stickers, we made them as we went.  My father showed up to help out and learn as well, this was the first time he has seen a mill in action, and defintely impressed.
 



Here is one of Thelittleguy edging his first board, for the most part, Thelittleguy ran his mill, and the rest of us offloaded, taking turns turning the logs, stacking the lumber, and handling the slabs.
 



I can't leave out a pic of my two children roughhousing around Thelittleguys nice new truck....
 





We had premeasured the logs and wrote out the lengths on the ends.  Most of these logs were cut from the last time Thelittleguy was up, when we literally just cut down some trees to try out the mill, with no idea of what lengths to cut them at, so they were mostly random legths as you can see....
 






The 'professors' pointed out that it was nice to build up a nice bed of sawdust for walking on, however it would quickly become a large pile that we would get sick of.  Jim gave us his trick of the trade which was to hang a 5 gallon bucket on a hook right at the shoot, and simply dump it at the end of the mill when you see that its full.  This way we could mill until the bucket is full, stop at the end of the cut, dump the bucket at the end in a pile, and come pick up the pile with the backhoe after it became large enough to fill the bucket.  Although this leads to a lot of bucket dumping, it is so rediculously easy and simple, that it made us forget about wanting to rig up some sort of sawdust shoot or anything like that.
So of course we had a bucket laying around, but no hook to hang it on, so Jim was nice enough to offer his bucket holding services for the rest of our milling carreer
 

Thanks Jim!




Here is a close up...
 






Some more pics of milling, in these next few pics Jim was showing us how to properly measure the log by starting with your last cut, and working backwards to figure your first cut, while taking into account blade thickness as well as planned shrinkage so the final product came out as planned.
 


 


As we were told many times, always double check your measurements!
 


 


 




As we were milling we noticed that the cant had more of a parrallelogram shape than a perfectly square shape.  We weren't sure whether it was the head itself that was misaligned or if it was just the log dogs.  We took a square to the log dogs and under Jim's supervision, used his idea of laying down two square lengths of aluminum tubing along the track, then used these as the base for our square to rest on.  This proved more accurate than using a board since we know that aluminum or steel is going to be perfectly true.  It turned out the dogs were out of square, after a simple adjustment and some pizza in our stomachs, we were back in action, it made all the difference in the world when the dogs were square with the track.
 




Here we are getting another lesson between cuts, me on the left, Jim, and Thelittleguy on the right




At the end of the day, it was clear that the blade needed to be changed out, I couldn't believe how easy it was to tell that it was dull, as every knot in the timber was noticeably a high spot as the dull blade rode up and over the knot.  As a final lesson for the day, Jim showed us how to coil the blades.  We both watched the video's on this forum (I believe Tom posted them?) but still couldn't do it.  After Jim showed us it became pretty simple really, well......at least for my father and I, Thelittleguy...not so much, here are some attempts...















"Okay Bobby....Let me show you one more time, clearly your having troubles....." 
 




The ole' man got it the first try...





After a few more attempts, and removing his sunglasses, Thelittleguy finally got it, I think he is a pro now......This wrapped up our day on Tuesday.....School's out!
 

[customsawyer]

Don't forget to stop and just smile from time to time and enjoy every second. I think that you are doing great with the setup you have, you will learn little tricks as you go don't forget to share them as some might like to use them.

[Piston]

Wednesday was a rather short day, we were trying to get a few more logs milled, by using all the tips, tricks, and lessons that Jim and Frank gave us, just to reinforce what we learned.  I also had a friend from Florida show up who we introduced to milling, as well as a couple others.  All in all, the 3 days of milling introduced 5 people to milling, who had never seen a mill operate before, plus the 2 of us who had limited exerience.
Here is a shot of my pilot friend running the mill for his first time.
 










And a few more shots from that last day....
 






I made this pallet up from 2 4x4 pallets, and just nailed 2 long 2x4's to join them together.  During the milling, we learned just how much lumber you can get from a log, and how to minimize the waste, Jim was right when he told me we would use those 'not so pretty' 2x4's for "something", and yes you were right Jim, they came in handy for my pallets.
 




Here is what we ended up with at the end, granted it is not much lumber for a few days of milling, however we spent Monday setting up and didn't mill that day, then Tuesday was class day, and Wednesday was a short day.  We didn't get nearly as much done as we were thinking, but honestly by taking our time, and learning from Jim and Frank, we steepened our learning curve so much that it will undoubtetly save us an incredible amount of time in the future.  I know we will be so much more efficient now, because we took our time to learn the basics, and didn't rush through everything just to see a final product.
 



The 8x8 on the top of the pile, is going to be my first post in my frame.  I have decided that it will be smarter for me to only mill a few timbers at a time, then cut the joinery and put those aside, and move onto the next ones.  I can see it is going to take me a loooooooong time to build my frame.  We'll have to see how it goes.  I won't be milling anymore for the next couple weeks as I'm healing up, but next time Thelittleguy is around for some milling, I'm confident we will get a lot done and do it correctly and efficiently. 


We really had a great time and learned more than I can remember.  I want to thank JimRogers and Bandmiller2 for all your expertise and willingness to teach some new guys!  We are light years ahead of where we would be if we didn't get the opportunity to learn from someone who knew what they were doing.  Not to mention I got a nice new to me 3 and a half inch slick out of the deal from Jim.    By the way, if you need any timberframing tools, Jim and his friend Tom do an amazing job with reconditioning antique hand tools, I highly recommend checking out his tools for sale thread in the for sale section, you won't be dissapointed with their quallity and price....and no, Jim didn't pay me to say that in this post


Also, I want to thank you guys for the kind words about going into surgery, It wasn't my first and I'm sure it won't be the last! 

Hope you enjoyed the pics.

[fishpharmer]

Piston, those are great pictures and great commentary. Thanks for sharing.  You are very fortunate to live so close to such generous FF members. 

[tomsteve]

as stated awesome commentary. i'm jealous now.

[Dave Shepard]

Thanks for the pics! Looks like you have some really nice white pine in your area. We've got some here, but nobody is cutting much of it.

[Jim_Rogers]

Have knowledge to share ....will travel........

Great pictures Piston and Littleguy.......

[WDH]

What a story!

I did not find the Forum until 5 years after I started sawing, so I had to learn most lessons the hard way without a mentor, and I am still learning more lessons the hard way  .

[Jim_Rogers]

Those rails you put the logs on are commonly called a Log Deck.  A "live Deck" would have a motor that would move the logs forward toward the mill.  Some call them a Ramp, and I've heard other terms as well.

The old timer who taught me saw-milling called them log bunks......and he had a flat chain on top of his with a hydraulic powered gear motor to move the chain and he called that a "live bunk"....
The chain was held in place by two pieces of angle iron. I think his was somewhat home made.

[Jim_Rogers]

I wrote a story and posted it here somewhere, I'll have to go and fine it and insert a link, but the story is called something like "planning your last cut first".....
It is how I figure out where to start milling a log in order to end up in the right place to make boxed heart timbers for timber framing.

One thing we noticed as we were trying to make timbers, was that the scale wheel on the LT15 didn't seem to match up to the standard ruler mounted on the frame.

We reviewed the alignment section of his manual to see if there was some way to set the scale wheel so that when he was 1" above the metal log rails the wheel would be at a one inch mark. But it didn't seem to work out to get that wheel turned to that spot.
On my mill, as I thought most WM mills had, is a 4/4 sliding scale ruler. The LT15 doesn't have a sliding 4/4 scale ruler. Seemed odd for sure.

We weren't sure if the scale wheel was installed correctly or not. It has been setup by the staff at the Maine outlet, but we did notice that there was at least one thing not installed correctly.
The sawdust deflection chute was on inside out. And we reversed it just before I showed them how I hang a bucket on my mill to catch the sawdust.

Here is a shot of my mill, and me, on a job site from a few years ago.
You can see the bucket hanging from a hook on the white PVC 22.5° elbow.
This works good if you have enough ground clearance.



We didn't get low enough the other day to see if their bucket would drag on the ground, as they didn't have a hook setup yet on their mill.

I know some of you will think this bucket idea is a complete waste of time, but while the mill is cutting you don't have anything to do if the lumber is already moved off the log/mill. So this time is when I sometimes change the bucket and dump out the sawdust, instead of when at the end of a cut.

However with the LT15 being powered by hand then it may make sense for them to dump the bucket, if they choose to use one, at the end of a cut. Or the off bearer can do it.
I did mention to them that it is important to be aware that if the blade breaks the blade can come out the sawdust chute and to never put you hand into the sawdust as it is coming out:



And this is what it did to my PVC elbow:



I think I posted a story about this here somewhere as well......

Hopefully that will not happen to someone's hand.....

Jim Rogers

[Bear]

Great post Piston, you sure can tell a good story. 

[Don K]

If I remember correctly on my LT 15 the 1 inch mark on the scale and the increment wheel were set from the factory for 7/8 " cuts. I had a 4/4 magnetic strip that cane with the mill that I would use for true 1 " cuts.

Don

[Piston]

I wrote a story and posted it here somewhere, I'll have to go and fine it and insert a link, but the story is called something like "planning your last cut first".....

This should be it....but if not it's still a good read.
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,4957.msg66603.html#msg66603


Does anyone have any information on the scale of the LT-15?  I'm wondering if there is another 'aftermarket' scale I could buy that accounts for the kerf thickness?  Something like a magnetic one mentioned earlier.
After reading Jim's thread, that sliding scale sure does look helpful....

[Jim_Rogers]

I may have another scale on hand...... We'd have to fashion a way to mount it but it would work for sure if we could..... I'll look around the shop tomorrow if I get a chance.....

[WDH]

You should be able to order the magnetic scale from Woodmizer.

[Thelittleguy]

I just want to send my thanks out there as well to Jim and Frank. You guys taught us so much and we are very much thankful for having our crash course to help us out. I feel in the Forum tradition they helped out us new guys and I want to let the rest of the guys out there know that I'm more then willing to help anyone as well, and with some young blood still in me I'm good for a day or two of hard work at least. Like anything else I feel the more I'm around Milling the better I will be at it and the more I will learn myself.  Thanks again for all the help guys and Piston for taking care of the story telling and pictures..

[DWM II]

Great thread, but I have bad news......Yall are ruined like the rest of us now! Welcome to the forum and have fun.

[moonhill]

Hey, nice.  It look like an extension is in order by the looks of that looong log.  There is only one thing worse than a short ugly log, that is big ugly log, with basketball size knots.   

As I read some of Jim R's post I can hear him talking. 

Tim

[customsawyer]

I don't think that bucket idea would work for me.

[Piston]

You should be able to order the magnetic scale from Woodmizer.

Got it! Just in case any other owners are interested, here is the info...
Part number 016275
Price:  11.50

[Jim_Rogers]

Is it a 4 quarter scale?

[Piston]

Is it a 4 quarter scale?

Yes Sir....
Although I haven't gotten it in the mail yet, but supposedly it is according to the rep I spoke with.

[WDH]

The scale has 8/4, 6/4, and 4/4 graduations.

[VT-Woodchuck]

I bought my LT15 after it had been used as a demo at a local fair.  I figured that it would be set up correctly if they were demo-ing it for 4 days. As set up, my scale is set so that the bottom board is 1". I learned and wrote the numbers on the cross rail as a double check. To end up with 4/4 stock, I cut at 1 1/8, 2 1/4, 3 3/8, 4 1/2, etc. Once you find a starting point, say 9", the next cut is 1/2 turn of the handle on the circular scale plus two notches. The magnetic scale can also be used, but for 4/4 I find it no easier.
The only problem I found was that the tension adjustment was not correct according to the manual. It was okay when I was cutting green hemlock but a dry maple cant broke a blade. After adjusting the tension correctly, I have not had a problem.
I put her to bed today as the snow is too deep to continue. Alas, bored until spring! 

[Planman1954]

OK, I am now an official member of the forum. I discovered today what the log posts do to you blade when they try to resist one another. It's not a nice sound. The blade came out with less teeth than that Italian prime minister guy.

It was not on purpose. I had just done the final cut on a log, and gave the mill a little push to pass the log end. Uh-oh, that post at the other end was just high enough to touch the blade. Woops.

Planman

[pineywoods]

OK, I am now an official member of the forum. I discovered today what the log posts do to you blade when they try to resist one another. It's not a nice sound. The blade came out with less teeth than that Italian prime minister guy.

It was not on purpose. I had just done the final cut on a log, and gave the mill a little push to pass the log end. Uh-oh, that post at the other end was just high enough to touch the blade. Woops.

Planman

That didn't take long, guarranteed you will do it again

[bandmiller2]

Planman, your dues are paid now,we all seem to do it, the smart ones only once.Sometimes it helps if you make a mark on the scale just above where the band will hit iron when you get near that mark double check before the cut.Frank C.

[IVANX71]

I also plan to buy LT 15 following the spring.
How many board feet can be the max cut with a one saw blade (without hitting a stone, metal or mud in the logs) ?

[firefighter]

Hye Piston nice pictutes ann congrats on the new mill ,I like the way Jim-Rodgers showed how to make the stickers and cut and stack them I will try that again good luck and a merrt Christmas.

[Kevin]

For your own scales...
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,3439.0.html

use the search feature 

Here's another old one ...

On the LT if you tighten the clamps too much you can force the cant off the bed on one side.
I have a feel for it now and just snug them up, wiggle the handle on the clamp when in doubt checking for any movement.
The other problem I just ran into was when checking the dogs I found them to be square but when I applied pressure to the cant it would move about 1/8" back until the dogs moved back to the stops.
A quick adjustment to the stops and everything is perfect, and I mean dead on corner to corner on the cant.
I level the bed, string it, check the band height on both sides against the bed, check the dogs for square and I'm good to go!
On the second cut of the cant the finished side goes against the dogs and I look for any space between the wood and the steel dogs, there shouldn't be any space.
For the third cut, with one finished side on the bed and one finished side on the dogs and without using the clamps the cant should be square to the dogs and bed.
If I loosen the clamps after the cut and the cant moves I have something out of adjustment.
I can mill all day long without rechecking for square.

[WDH]

I also plan to buy LT 15 following the spring.
How many board feet can be the max cut with a one saw blade (without hitting a stone, metal or mud in the logs) ?

On my LT15, I get from 500 to 600 BF on a blade, but I wash off the logs using a spray nozzle on a water hose before sawing.