Author Topic: E-2300 Does not get up to heat (Read 3148 times)

needful · « **on:** November 17, 2009, 02:14:41 pm »

Hi everybody,
I am stumped my E-classic worked flawless for a year and all of a sudden it won't come up to the set heat. Of course it burns now twice the amount of wood since the fan is going 24/7. The boiler is clean, the coalbed is there and everything else seems to be like before.
My Dealer does not know a thing about the E-Classic, he only sold 2 so far and he considers that particular boiler a piece of ....., so no help there!!
I read most the treads about the same problem, but so far, i found nothing that would apply to me.
I hope somebody has an answer.
Cheers
Robert

MudBud · « **Reply #1 on:** November 17, 2009, 03:24:08 pm »

Needful, a few things to understand first....what is your setpoint and whats the highest it gets to?
Does it ever lose temperature while running?

A few things to check besides what you already did?

Is the hole going to the reaction chamber clear? can you see down through it?

Is the reaction chamber cleaned out?

Have you insured the turbulators, all 6, are cleaned all the way to the reaction chamber

Did you insure the area near the turbulators to the stack is cleaned out?

Can you build up to temp with the bypass door open? If so and you close it and start losing temp, then look at the areas above.

Usually when I can't bring to temp its usually a cleaning of the reaction chamber.

Are your air holes on the side of the firebox open and clear? any blockage of those won't allow to get a full fire going.

Have you used the boiler during the summer? I use my oil boiler in the summer and have to move all my temp switched around. If I don't switch back then the boiler has limited control and my boiler wont come up to temp.

Just some ideas....

Keith

needful · « **Reply #2 on:** November 17, 2009, 04:16:30 pm »

Thanks Keith,
The set temp is at 175 and has been all last winter. After it cools down 5 it starts to heat again. Now, it does not reach the set temp anymore. It stays between 168 - 172. Everything is clean and was working fine just a few days ago and all last winter. The fire is good, the coal bed is 4-5" deep the holes are visible, the half moon is clear and the reaction chamber is clean. The tubulators are clean nothing blocked. The fan and the solenoids work fine.
Rob

stumper · « **Reply #3 on:** November 17, 2009, 05:51:59 pm »

What is the condition of your reaction chamber. Some have had issues with it cracking and the air not flowing correctly so the secondary burn did not occur. Open the bypass, then remove the reaction chamber door and watch when you close the bypass. If it is working correctly you will hear and see a blow torch like flame.

Another thing to check is the bypass door closing correctly. If it is not then it may not function correctly. I remember someone's broke.

dva · « **Reply #4 on:** November 17, 2009, 06:50:12 pm »

Needful, a good suggestion here was to try to get the boiler up to temp by opening the bypass and letting the unit work in a conventional mode. It will smoke more during this time, but try it and get back to us with the results.

needful · « **Reply #5 on:** November 18, 2009, 01:35:02 pm »

Thanks for all the advise.
I opened the bypass and it heated up. Once it reach the set temp. i closed the bypass and it cooled down like normal. Set temp -5 the blower started to work again. The boiler does cool down to 168 and never goes over that temp again. To me it is pretty clear that there is no gasification happening because there is only smoke coming out of the stack all the time. I just can't figure out why.
I have to do the test with the reaction chamber yet.
Cheers
Rob $:-\$

rondojod · « **Reply #6 on:** November 18, 2009, 02:04:32 pm »

I would suggest that you take the back door off and then loosen the clamps on your air tubes Take tubes off and see if they are plugged with creosote. Usually is the top one that plugs up.

dva · « **Reply #7 on:** November 18, 2009, 05:26:27 pm »

Something bound to be plugged up, or there is a failure in the forced air system.

Assuming that you have cleaned everything well reaction chamber, tubinators, the hidden passage area behind the top access door in the back that goes from the top of the tubinators area across to the chimney opening... etc., then look to see if air is really flowing in to the firebox and reaction chamber.

With a hot load in the firebox, shut off the master switch in the back. The remove the reaction chamber cover. Being very careful and making sure that the area outside the open reaction chamber is clear of anything that can burn, turn the master switch back on. If the fan is not running, readjust the set poinjt to be 6 degrees above the current temp. After a moment, very carefully look in to the open reaction chamber and see if a flame similar to the picture below is occuring. If not, open the door to the firebox and poke a hole through the ash bed into the half-moon area. You're trying to force a hole for gasification. Restart the unit.

If you cannot get this gasification to happen, you need to make sure that there is nothing blocking the airflow out of the solenoids in the back air chamber. You have insure that the fan is blowing air and the integrity of the air system is good. Open that cover on the air system and make sure that the solenoids are actually opening when the unit is running. The bottom solendoid will only open if the temp is 10 degrees or more below the set point.

Get back to us. Be careful, with the reaction chamber door open you expose yourself to hot stuff and bad things.

Dave

stumper · « **Reply #8 on:** November 18, 2009, 05:40:33 pm »

DVA nice picture of the reaction chamber working. It clearly show what I describe as a blow torch like flame. You seem to have few fire bricks lining the side of your reaction chamber then I do. My side bricks come all the way to the point were the last brick over hangs the end of the bricks on the bottom of the chamber.

dva · « **Reply #9 on:** November 18, 2009, 09:49:21 pm »

Stumper - the firebricks in my reaction chamber are as they were when the boiler was delivered. There have been a few modifications to this lower system since the introduction of the 2300. My was built in Dec 2008, but before I took delivery I insisted that the reaction chamber be replaced with a current updated model due to me hearing about all the problems. CB and my dealer gladly obliged.

That may be the difference you see.

Dave

muckamuck · « **Reply #10 on:** November 19, 2009, 07:13:18 pm »

Hi Needful,
I'm not sure you have a problem. If your set temp is 175 and while running you see temps of 168 to 172 what are you complaining about? 3 degrees?? I think the stove shuts off at 175 and quickly cools to what you observe as the normal temperature of 168-172. If you want to see about 175 all the time put your set point at 180. As for smoke, try getting a wheelbarrow load of bone dry hardwood, get it fired up for 20 minutes then look for smoke.

JJ · « **Reply #11 on:** November 19, 2009, 07:27:43 pm »

Hi,
Check the air tubes at the solonoid in the air intake in back of unit.
I talk to neighbor who has same unit and his had similar issue.
The bottom tube was plugged near the elbow, where the solonode is (low point), but is easy to clean as there is just hose clamp holding it together.

JJ

superwd6 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 19, 2009, 09:31:02 pm »

:oMaybe your dealer needs to pull his head out of his butt and get in the game. As a furnace technician for the last 19 years I can tell you the E-classic is desperatly needed in the wood boiler industy. I've had mine going now since September and love it.

rondojod · « **Reply #13 on:** November 20, 2009, 08:30:16 pm »

Needful

What is the latest on your boiler?
Please fill us in on what is happening.
Have you found the problem?

rondojod · « **Reply #14 on:** December 02, 2009, 09:55:36 am »

Again what happened to needful and his problem?

ldcub56 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 16, 2010, 08:58:09 pm »

I'M new to this forum, first time post. Also new e- 2300 user, about three month's.I was starting to have same problem, i had a spark screen that was geting pluged,pulled it off seemed to help problem.

doctorb · « **Reply #16 on:** January 30, 2010, 11:23:11 am »

I too am having trouble maintaining water temp. This unit worked well for the first 6-7 weeks. I have maintained the unit regularly. I have read all the suggestions above and would like some clarification, if possible.
1. Wood is dry - fire is hot - hole in reaction chamber is clear
2. Reaction chamber, turbinators cleaned, and chimney cleaned of ash
3. Scraped bypass door - still hard to see if it's cracked open or not
4. Solenoids open at the different cycles
5. Spark screen off of chimney cap (from the start)

I can increase water temp with bypass open, but water temp drops to about 172 -175 under "gasification" mode. Set point is 195 degrees and has been working well prior to now. Fan now runs all the time. Smoke, although not a huge amount, is continuous from stack (unlike when working well)

No gasification seen when reaction chamber inspected with unit on. (Thanks to Dave for his previous picture / posts).

I am unsure what has been described as the "solenoid airt tubes" and how to access them. I am sure that I am daft but a little further explanation would be helpful. Any other suggestions?

Doctorb

rondojod · « **Reply #17 on:** January 30, 2010, 11:33:31 am »

Take off the back doors of unit. Take off panel to solenoids. Top solenoid at back you will see a clamp. Loosen clamp and pull the solenoid out of the tube. Sometimes the tube and solenoid will fill up with creoste and not allow the blower to deliver the air inside the firebox. With firebox door open and blower running can you tell that the air holes are producing air through them?

doctorb · « **Reply #18 on:** January 30, 2010, 01:11:07 pm »

Thanks Rondojod-

Just started snowing like crazy. I'll give it a try when it lets up and let you know.

Doctorb

woodmills1 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 30, 2010, 08:23:52 pm »

I really have sympathy for all the problems you guys have

I put wood in mine, it rarley smokes, heats the house, but does like wood. I would rather cut more wood then clean out passages.

It does seem like the dealer and manufacurer should be ready to keep you happy.

it does seem like the thing is a good idea, but it should work qnd work quite well.

mikey · « **Reply #20 on:** January 31, 2010, 12:26:24 am »

I too am having problems keeping the temp up, my dealer was herer half the day fixing problems with this owb/ It has been a major pain in the a$$, would like to trade it in on a 6048 or the next size larger , my firestar board went out a month ago, the first replacement was the wrong one,the fan had to be wired direct so it ran 24/7 burned 6 cords of wood during that time and still had to leave the bypawss open to maintain 150 degees have replaced the door seal twice due to the door not agigned when I got running(leaked from day1), the reaction chamber door not only warped , but is totally disintegrated in the center had to pay for the seal & the metal plate for the reation chamber door because they are wear items and replaced the fusion chamber twice and I've only burn wood in it for atotal of 7 months. I might not be so upset with it if it 5 or 10 years old, CB wants me to send it back to them to see if they can fix it. I told my dearer I would only if they send me a replcement while they are fixing it( like that will fly) oh well I am done ranting now . might go have beer

doctorb · « **Reply #21 on:** January 31, 2010, 02:08:30 pm »

Things are back to normal. Rondojod, thanks again for the solenoid tip and the explicit directions. It turns out that I still had a blockage of the air holes at the back of the stove. I did not empty out the ash from the firebox as thoroughly this last time as the first time I did it, and the ash level just got too thick and too packed down for airflow to get through.

After the snow stopped, I cleaned out the firebox almost completely and restarted the unit. The temp came up from 159 to 188 in about 2 hours. Burning great now. I would recommend to all E-Classic owners that, if trouble occurs, go through the entire list of maintenace items posted earlier on this thread. It will correct 98% of the problems.

While others on this forum tend to be critical of the E-2300, I think it's a matter of learning the unit and being proactive in preventing these minor problems. Many states will not allow the sale of old non-gasification models, so it's a bit unfair to act like there was a choice in the matter. Soon a majority of locales will require these newer devices, which are more complex and therefore have more details to work through on a week to week basis.

This thread has been great for us first time users. I will continue to document problems as they occur, but I think my understanding of the unit is reaching a higher level and the maintenance on the stove is not overburdensome. It may be more than is required for the older models, but very tolerable. Thanks to you all who have made constructive suggestions. They do help.

Doctorb

rondojod · « **Reply #22 on:** January 31, 2010, 03:34:35 pm »

Doctorb,

Glad to hear that things are back to normal. I too get very frustrated at times with my stove but it seems to always turn out to be something that I have neglected to do to the stove to keep it operating properly.
I talked with my salesman this morning in length on the operations of these stoves and he told me that most of the calls he gets he can correct the problems over the phone.
He and I have spent a lot of time on my problems since I bought my first one in September of 08. If you look at my past threads you will see that I went through numerous problems.
He this year swapped out his classic for the e-classic and told me he does not resent it a bit. He said it burns cleaner and less wood.
I agree with you about people being critical about the e-classic because like you, I had no choice as my State regulations don't allow the old non-gasification models and for a little more work I am keeping the air cleaner and not upsetting my neighbors.

wanting warmth · « **Reply #23 on:** January 31, 2010, 05:03:46 pm »

I have had all of these same problems but without resolution. had a 6048 model at my former house with GREAT success. when we moved we had to get the e-classic and for 2 years now nothing but problems. dealer has been here multiple times and it works good for a few hours then loses temp again. finally drained it and although still paying for it, am planning to sell it for a huge loss but don't know what else to do. we don't have time to coddle it everyday. any other suggestions?

mikey · « **Reply #24 on:** January 31, 2010, 05:48:35 pm »

wanting warmth, same here unit was cleaned and out for my dealer to come replace the firestar board I went to a friend of mine & talked him into selling me a pickup load of oak that has been split & stacked for 2 years when it was ready to fire up. went thrugh all of it in 24 hrs never got above 160 , and that was when I had the bypass & door open to reload it worked fine with the propane backup went right up to temp, turned it off and right back to 140 with afull load of dry oak I am going to check out if Iowa's lemon law applies to this, I really hope so. I am burning at least 5 times more wood than I should be, I bought this model because I was told it was more efficient.it would heat better if I just light the pile on fire in the yard and use a fan to blow it toward the house.
p.s. I double checked evert thing again today blew it out with air and still 140 - 150 range. don't get me wrong I tought it worked great at first but when the problems started they just won't quit

wanting warmth · « **Reply #25 on:** January 31, 2010, 06:46:15 pm »

So we all agree it has alot of issues. question is-is there anyone out there that has an e-classic that is working and continues to work with just routine cleaning or does it continue to have these issues but you've learned how to deal with them? also, has anyone spoken to CB directly and what do they say about all this. I only spoke to them last year when they told me to take out the firebricks. Since then they've updated the owner's manual so they know something's wrong.

doctorb · « **Reply #26 on:** January 31, 2010, 10:02:14 pm »

wanting warmth and mikey

I can read your annoyance and I feel your pain. Please see my frustration earlier in this thread.

My insight, for what it's worth, would be that it is not a matter of getting the stove up to temperature with the door ajar or the bypass open. With that kind of draft your going to get a raging fire that will elevate the water temps. (I did this too.) Expecting the stove to "hold" that temp once reached is a false hope, if gasification is not occuring, unless you continue to run it on bypass. There is something in your stove that is not allowing the fan to downdraft the fire into the reaction chamber. Hence, when you close the bypass, the temps go down because the fire is air starved. Open the door and the renewed draft ignites the fuel, right? You can check whether gasification is occurring by the method described by dva earlier in this thread. If that's the case, every step along the path of that air must be checked from the fans to the solenoids to the air tubes from the solenoids to the holes in the furnace walls and even the bypass door and the chimney. Something is blocked. Once you find it, the stove will work well for a lot longer than a couple of hours.

It seems like a tremendous pain right now, but once you've rooted out the cause, it will be a "why didn't I think of that earlier" moment. I agree with rondojod (see above) it's almost always something neglected, that you think you've done already and adequately, that needs attention. So mikey, all the best wood fuel in the world will not solve this problem. The reason it's burning up so fast is that the fan is on constantly. For what ever reason, the final stage of combustion is not happening. While my CB dealer has been great and responsive, but they are learning about this machine from us, not visa versa. It's new to them too. Keep looking. Best of luck.

Doctorb

superwd6 · « **Reply #27 on:** February 01, 2010, 12:06:23 am »

only time it happened to me was when I plugged the hole trying to push to many ashes down. Your wood is to big,not split,to wet or the holes are plugged in the fire box. I keep a stick handy and poke them out sometimes. The biggest problem I see is the unit uses one fan and two air holes, if the top chamber holes get restricted it pushes two much air to the reaction chamber for gasification to happen.
Use only the wood you need for a 12 hour period and before you reload scrape side and rear airholes clean. I use small sticks sometimes to stop the wood from blocking side airholes . Remember for every complaint you read on the internet there's probably 20 more stoves working fine

I'm a heating service man and I've seen many "dry" piles of wood that blew bubbles out at me when threw in the fire

...

mikey · « **Reply #28 on:** February 01, 2010, 01:05:04 am »

I have never been able to get more than a 5-6 hour burn out of this thing, I have tried larger pieces and small split wood and it has worked maybe 3 days good of all the time I've had it, I have read all the treads here and tried every hint and suggestion. nothing seems to work. as for wood consumption, I cant keep up at all , it keeps up fine with the propane witch is still better than not having it, I am heating 2 houses and a 1200 sf shop that is well insulated it won't get to temp untill the outside temp hits 40 degrees

KMAN · « **Reply #29 on:** February 16, 2010, 09:37:48 pm »

I bought a E-classic MArch 2009 and had it installed the fall of 2009. I have been using it here in Lancaster PA but i am not happy with the amount of smoke I get from it and also the amount that the fan has to run to heat the water up. I have read and reread everybodys post and I can not get this thing to burn right. If I open the door and shut it it fires down in the chamber for awhile then slowly dies out. I have checked all the holes in the fire box and they are open. I have welded a long piece of rebar and bent a L-hook on it and then ground a point on it so it fits in the hole nice and then i can move it around to clean the hole out. Everytime my dealer comes out it is burning fairly good with very little smoke and we just stare at each other and cant figure it out. My wood has been cut and split for at least 1 year if not more so it should be dry. The wood I am using now has some snow on it since we got slammed with 2 major storms in the last week but most of it shakes right off before i but it in the stove. I have tarps over my wood pile but it did get some snow on some of it since it was very windy. I am fresh out of ideas on what to do and just tired of dealing with it. I have 3 stacks on my stove at this point. Anyway with the real cold winter and snowy winter we have had so far i love not using propane, but i no it is not burning effeciant because it is not firing down below all the time. Sometimes it is completely smoke free and next time it smokes worse then a regular stove. I feel i should be able to figure this out but I just cant seem to do it. Anyway and thoughts or suggestions would be great. Thanks KMAN

doctorb · « **Reply #30 on:** February 17, 2010, 08:53:46 am »

KMAN-

If you are not getting enough air to maintain good gasification, as your post says, there are only a few problems it could be. I am assuming that, at the beginning of the fall burning season, the stove worked well. Is that right?

The list includes:
1. Airholes: sounds like you've been all over that.
2. Fan problems: If its running, it's probably OK
3. Fuel wet: probably OK, by the sounds of it.
4. Solenoids not opening
5. Clogged solenoid intake tubes
6. Chinmey blocked
7. By pass door not fully closed.
8. Moon shaped opening is plugged

I would read the thread entitled "E-2300 bypass door..." as well. Others have had the same symptoms, and I bet, if your solenoids are opening and closing correctly through the stove cycles, that it's a plugged solenoid tube.

My suggestions:
First, take a load or two of wood and get it dry (basement of garage) to make sure, when you refire this thing, that wet wood is not the problem.

Second, with the stove running, check the fan and solenoid operation. If they are not the problem, then shut down the stove completely.

Third, follow the steps to clean out the solenoid air intakes described in the other thread. You will read that this was the same problem for ecrane. Clean all creosote from the bypass door and check your stack (remove the screen from the spark collector). Clear all ash from the turbinator corridor with the brush down into the reaction chamber. Empty all ash from the passage between the turbinators and the stack (behing the wall ) and empty the reaction chamber.

Empty the fire box of ash. Make sure that the rear wall air intake holes are free of clog and the moon shaped opening is clear. I like the idea of blowing out the air intake system with a shopvac that was mentioned earlier on FF.

Restart. It will run great. Check for good gasification (open the reaction chamber door) after the stove reaches about 180 degrees. Do not allow the fans to run while you are taking the door off. Turn the unit back on after the door is removed, check for the "blowtorch", turn it off again and replace the door. I'll bet that you find something on this laudry list of tasks that solves the problem big time. This stove is just a matter of maintenance.

Finally, print out these two threads and ask your CB dealer to read them. He needs to learn this stuff too.

Doctorb

ken999 · « **Reply #31 on:** February 17, 2010, 09:53:14 am »

Kman- I'm finding that I was burning the coals out too much by not loading enough wood. I was so fixed on getting ALL the airholes cleaned out EVERY loading that I was comprimising the amount of coals/fire that was in the fire box. I normally load a full wheelborrow 2x a day and had to add in one load one day to get to the point where my loadings were FILLING the firebox to the top. This fresh load of seasoned wood on top of the hot dry charred wood has plenty of time to fully dry before it gets it's turn to burn. I let the stove burn out every couple of weeks to clean out the airholes/firebox, then double load it after relighting to get back into the 'full firebox' swing of things. I use a steel ice chopper to pry against the door jamb sliding the partially burned wood away from the airholes best I can every loading, then pack it full, shut the bypass and walk away. Usually after a cycle or two the little bit of smoke I get disappears and the unit will burn pretty clean until the next loading.

I also like to use varying sizes of wood to help the burning process. It seems that real uniform chunk sizing tends to pack/settle too tight and not let the fire climb up into the wood load. When I get things burning up 6-8" ABOVE the airholes, the stove is working the best. It seemes that a well placed big chunk or two mixed in helps the fire work it's way up into the load better.

I clean the Reaction Chamber out 2x a week.

KMAN · « **Reply #32 on:** February 21, 2010, 05:45:28 pm »

So how often should you complety clean the fire box out free of ash?
Maybe that is my problem I have not cleaned the firebox out for quit sometime.
Any thoughts?

MudBud · « **Reply #33 on:** February 21, 2010, 08:04:43 pm »

Kman, I guess it depends on what type of wood you burn. I never clean out the firebox except at the end of the burning season. I clean the reaction chamber at least every other week. I never have a problem keeping the temps between 175 and 185. I burn 80% kiln dried softwood. I probably get more creosote but nothing I can't handle and it causes no problems. I just cleaned the turbulators after 3 months and had no blockage nor problems scraping them with the wire brush pole.

KMAN · « **Reply #34 on:** February 21, 2010, 09:59:40 pm »

Good to know. Mine is going to heat at this point but it still smokes a lot. Today i took the solenoids off the back for the air and found the top intake pipe was partially clogged but not to bad. Cleaned that out and thought maybe i could go smoke free, but no go. I did let it burn low today in wood since i was playing around with it so maybe I just dont have enough ash bed. Anyway it is heating fine at this point but would love to see a smoke free deal that I paid for. Right now i am in a love/hate relationship with this stove. Love the fact that my heating bills are low compared to my friends that are getting $300.00+ monthly bills, but wish it would kick the smoking habit. Maybe there is a patch or a piece of gum i could give this thing to have it with draw from smoking. anyway sometime i just might figure this out with the help of the forum. Thanks to all for the advise.

doctorb · « **Reply #35 on:** February 22, 2010, 09:28:48 am »

KMAN-

It's tough to imagine that the air holes are unblocked if you have not cleaned out the firebox "in sometime" I would leave the coals, but all the ash dust that should have made it down into the reaction chamber should be removed. After a while, it completely covers the sidewall level of the air intakes.

Where are you located? I live in northern Baltimore County and am not that far from Lancaster. If I am up your way I could stop by and take a look, if it continues to smoke. Are you sure that there's no creosote holding the bypass door open a little? With all that smoking, you can't be getting a good secondary burn. Are you getting gasification?

doctorb

KMAN · « **Reply #36 on:** February 24, 2010, 08:41:22 pm »

I think I am finally on the right track. I spoke to my dealer again and we went over everything and I believe i was doing what someone else said before and that is trying to burn the load to low so the ash would not come up to the holes. After increasing my coal bed and trying not to let my wood bridge I think it finally is working the way it should. There is a true learning curve with this stove. It does smoke sometimes at fire up when it calls for heat but that I can handle and understand. I belive if I keep reading what people post I should be good. I live near the antique capital of Lancaster county which is Adamstown. Anyway thanks for all the help and I will keep reading these postings because they are truely helpful. KMAN

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Author Topic: E-2300 Does not get up to heat (Read 3148 times)