Author Topic: Possible business idea?? thoughts/ comments/ concerns (Read 3335 times)

Frickman · « **Reply #20 on:** November 12, 2009, 09:13:15 pm »

I harvest five to twenty acres woodlots all the time. They are my bread and butter. I have chain saws, a small cable skidder, a medium size forwarder, a single axle tuck, a knuckleboom loader, and some farm tractors I can use on the landing. I also have a handset circle mill with all the related equipment. Yes, it can be done, but you have to work at it.

pappy19 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 12, 2009, 11:24:50 pm »

Here's my suggestion:

Where I live in rural western Idaho, the local school bond passed and a new K-12 school was passed and included in that building was a $2 mil hog fuel heating/AC system. A suggestion was made from the public to hire a local forester to oversee the acquisition of the hog fuel and to make sure that the school received a good price per ton and that the school never ran out of hog fuel. I take this to mean that the school board forester could negotiate timber sales, mostly thinning of marginal or below margin trees, chipping head, guts and feathers, and getting that hog fuel to the school.

I could see this biomass system as a real addition to existing schools with a boon to a "go-getter" forester that could sell the biomass including his services and make a darned good living plus being a "green" business. Not to mention the benefits of thinning, fire prevention, etc. Seems like a real future for a forester to me.

sjfarkas · « **Reply #22 on:** November 13, 2009, 12:44:29 am »

When I had a haul too long and too narrow to carry with the bobcat I used a trailer I special buit for a farm tractor to tow. It couldn't hold a lot of weight, but I could load it with 37' cedar. It is 25' long. You just need one machine to load it and one to unload it. I've seen some comments about the landing being left messy and I would recomend using a mastication/mulching head on a machine to clean up after yourself.

mad murdock · « **Reply #23 on:** November 13, 2009, 11:11:04 am »

I grew up a bit south of you, in Vilas Co. Wisc. My brothers and I did what you are contemplating, we did pretty well, concentrating on getting the most out of the trees we took down, by selling house logs, dock pilings, Veneer, and higher grade saw logs, we skidded with smaller skidders, i.e. JD 440/ farm tractors, even horse logged. Horses work the best for small lots, and the land owners really turn a positive eye to seeing someone work their land with hay-burners. A 2 horse (or mule) team of good horses will turn out about as much wood in a day as a good skidder, as long as you aren't dragging the wood a real long ways, albeit there is a bit more of sweat involved with horses. The lower grade stuff we would sell as firewood, and made out ok on the firewood also, at least 3 times the price pf pulpwood....Problem is nowadays, a guy will have to really sharpen his pencil to get some decent markets, or create a niche where you are, by turning out a finished product to sell, rather than the rough log. Out here in the Oregon Coastal mountains, a guy can make more selling fir logs as firewood, unless you have good enough quality to sell poles, the market is just tough all around.

nas · « **Reply #24 on:** November 13, 2009, 12:37:02 pm »

I have given some thought to doing the same sort of thing, and I think the key is to process the logs past just selling them as logs. Sell firewood cut and split. Sell lumber, green or kiln dried, or even flooring. Or try to develop niche log markets such as log home builders, or timber framers. As with all businesses marketing is key. For me it helps that I live within an hours drive of about 30% of the population of Canada.

Nick

BARPINCHER · « **Reply #25 on:** November 16, 2009, 08:12:05 pm »

I've been doing this few years now. I sell to a few mills that cut only for furniture. I don't do a large volume but it is steady work that complements my business of hunting property managment. I don't think I could make it on that solely tho.

Tom · « **Reply #26 on:** November 16, 2009, 08:36:22 pm »

Wecome to the Forestry Forum, 48 INCH BARPINCHER

Magicman · « **Reply #27 on:** November 16, 2009, 08:53:35 pm »

First, Welcome to FF, BARPINCHER. I guess that we are either scrapping or having fun on here. Scrapping is fun too.....

chevytaHOE5674 · « **Reply #28 on:** November 16, 2009, 08:59:25 pm »

Thanks for the ideas, comments, and suggestions guys, I've been reading and researching as much as possible lately. Been busy with other jobs to try and work on this project at the moment.

stonebroke · « **Reply #29 on:** November 16, 2009, 10:54:21 pm »

Do you have any log brokers that will take woods run loads? In the NE the small loggers sometimes hook up with a broker and then they do not have to worry about small loads.

Stonebroke

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #30 on:** November 17, 2009, 05:30:24 am »

My experience has been that the successful logger is the one that is best at marketing their wood. Same goes for the mill man. Usually you'll find that they are pretty efficient in their operations.

Frank H. · « **Reply #31 on:** November 17, 2009, 02:45:51 pm »

Hey there,
I was reading your post, and I feel that there is a niche market for what you wish to do. Definately have to look at it from the perspective of not as much $ there as in a large piece of land, but people will pay for food plots, and the like. When the Plotmaster came out, a lot of hunters (who aren't farmers) went out and bought one, on the advice from the hunting magazines. Then they realized that they were in PA, and the 3 inches of topsoil around here wouldn't let their 400 lb machine dig into the ground. That's where I came in. I let it get around that I'd plow and disc for folks wanting to do feed plots. Then they could plant what they want, and I'd give some planting advice. That way, they felt like DIY'ers, but I still make a couple bucks on the whole show, and don't have to worry about the planting. I'll plant if they want me to, but it seems these hunting club guys like to do that, especially if it saves them money. All I have invested in it is my old tractor (a Farmall M, or the I-4 Industrial if it is hilly) and disc. Sometimes they want the ground plowed, so I use my No. 8 IH plow. I also let these clubs know that I could skid firewood for them, and cut it if need be too. I've done a few of these also. It's more work than "pure"logging, when you deal with moving the tractor and disc and all, but I like it, and, what the hell, the logs aren't paying much now anyway. I'd run with that idea of yours. Especially if youre the only guy in your area doing it. I don't know how you'd charge for the forestry advice, but I'd be willing to bet that if the club could make anything off of their chunk of ground, even in the long run, they would at least be interested.
Just my thoughts.

Frank

tughill · « **Reply #32 on:** November 17, 2009, 03:25:57 pm »

I think Frank H. has you going in the right direction...you started out talking about forestry with some logging thrown in and everyone has been talking about logging.

Do the forestry end, laying out and improving roads and trails, managing for wildlife, marking for TSI, etc. charge for your expertise, and take logs as payment if the landowner doesn't want to pay $$. $$ is better though. Work smarter, not harder.

BARPINCHER · « **Reply #33 on:** November 17, 2009, 08:10:12 pm »

Thanks for the welcome guys. You sure have some interesting stuff going on around here

SOmething I have found in this line of work is you need to clearly establish before the first tree is marked what the landowners goal or goals are. Methods used for managing a woodlot for future timber production is not always in the best interest for wildlife. The flip side is managing for wildlife often does not put any money back in the landowners pocket and oftentimes it just helps defray some of the costs of wildlife management projects. Frequently in PA ( I work all over this state so I see alot) I see woodlots that were higraded by the previous owner which can make for a real challenge to make good long term habitat out of. The point I'm trying to make is depending on location , what your objectives are, and what you have to work with you may have a tough time telling/selling the landowner that when the timber work is done they will owe YOU xxxx$. Most landownwers have it in their heads from the beginning that they will get boatloads of money from any timber. project.

Frank H. · « **Reply #34 on:** November 17, 2009, 08:29:17 pm »

Hey Tahoe,
Just another idea for getting the logs out of your small woodlots. When I have to, I haul to the mills in our area with my equipment trailer. Make yourself a couple of bunks and take them yourself. Load with a skid steer and forks if you have to. Heck, before I had a backhoe, I put a snatch block up in a big tree, and lifted each individual log up with a winch on the old skidder. I've done it with a Jeep and winch too, though the front end can get light if you are too close. All this considering how close you are to a mill. If you have to make a million trips, you are losing money. Of course, if you have a bunch of wood, I guess you can get a log truck to haul it for you anyway. I know some of my ideas may sound hokey, but they've worked in the past, they just require some extra elbow grease.

Good luck

Frank

bill m · « **Reply #35 on:** November 17, 2009, 10:05:30 pm »

I have been doing just what you want to do for about about 6 years now. I have a New Holland tc55 4x4 with a winch and grapple on back. I also have a Metavic 7 ton trailer with loader and 4 wheel drive. I can work 6 days on about 15 gal. of fuel and with good wood can produce about 20m bd. ft. I don't think I could ever go back to using a skidder.
Good Luck

Tom · « **Reply #36 on:** November 17, 2009, 10:48:13 pm »

Welcome bill m. I sure wish they were still Fords.

Woulde · « **Reply #37 on:** November 20, 2009, 11:22:22 pm »

I'll be in the market for some forest management and logging next spring/summer in Charlevoix County Michigan.

Me and my wife purchased 23 heavily wooded acres with the intentions of building a timber frame vacation cabin.

We would like to harvest the timbers and hire a local sawyer to mill the logs on site. The rough cut lumber would then be hauled to a local timber framer for finish work.

I've hired a surveyor to do a topographic survey and help locate a building site and access. The site has steep slopes and the township requires this survey in 2 foot contours. Included with the topo, he offered to tag significant trees by species and size. I think most of the trees are red and white oak, but there's a nice strand of softwoods and other mixed hardwoods.

The building site will need to be cleared, but I don't know how many trees will be needed to build the frame. We'll have a timber framing plan and cut list at some point, but we may need to take down other trees not on the building site. I think it would make sense to hire a forester for an opinion on how to manage the land.

I want to leave as many trees as possible and I'm not interested in selling any trees, but I suppose other people have the same idea as me and could use the help of someone knowledgeable.

Ironwood · « **Reply #38 on:** November 21, 2009, 01:13:14 am »

I have been working my way into this business from the market backward. I have been buying logs from guys like Frickman and others but aquiring my own capacity for one's two's as well (great logs that is). So, I am looking at an even "smaller" plan than Frick. The market is king. A reverse forward approach is best. I will never be Frick's competetion, but we're mutual assets to each other.

It is possible, but gotta REALLY keep your ear to the ground.

Ironwood

Dave Shepard · « **Reply #39 on:** November 21, 2009, 03:32:59 am »

Welcome to the Forum, bill m. Are you about halfway between Glendale and the golf course?

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Author Topic: Possible business idea?? thoughts/ comments/ concerns (Read 3335 times)