ATTN: NH Foresters and Loggers

[chevytaHOE5674]

so therefore they fly the logs out to a landing that accessable by logging trucks via a helicopter. If this logging method been working for years in Alaska, then this same harvesting method should work here in NH and maybe other parts of the country.

I'll bet that NH doesn't have enough valuable trees to warrant a helicopter. Running a heli is expensive, so they (Alaska, Canada, Western states) cut large trees that are worth a lot of money, they also cut large acreages (100's-1000's of acres), and harvest huge volumes of logs.

A 5-10 acre parcel that has a ditch that needs crossing (thus needing a 5k permit) wouldn't generate enough revenue off the entire harvest to pay for 5 minutes of heli time.

[mrnero]

Mrnero, what kind of vehicle do you drive?

Guessing a Prius or Aveo or something along those lines.

I was thinking more of a hybrid (spelling??) or maybe a solar motorized bicycle !!

[mrnero]

so therefore they fly the logs out to a landing that accessable by logging trucks via a helicopter. If this logging method been working for years in Alaska, then this same harvesting method should work here in NH and maybe other parts of the country.

I'll bet that NH doesn't have enough valuable trees to warrant a helicopter. Running a heli is expensive, so they (Alaska, Canada, Western states) cut large trees that are worth a lot of money, they also cut large acreages (100's-1000's of acres), and harvest huge volumes of logs.

A 5-10 acre parcel that has a ditch that needs crossing (thus needing a 5k permit) wouldn't generate enough revenue off the entire harvest to pay for 5 minutes of heli time.

"............wouldn't generate enough revenue off the entire harvest to pay for 5 minutes of heli time. ChevytaHoe, Ever think of renting a cheeper or smallerhelicopter ?? or maybe logging smaller acre parcels with larger kite's ??

[Tom]

Mrnero,
Helicopter logging is very expensive.  If "all" trees were taken by helicopter, you wouldn't be able to afford your house.  Besides, sometimes Helicopters fall out of the air and all the permits in the world won't stop it.  If you require that helicopters get special permits to log, just in case they fall out of the sky and spew fuel in a pristine lake or mash trees, or cause forest fires or endanger people on the ground, then that operation could be stopped as well.   That's the biggest problem with the "environmental" movement.  Those who claim to be acting in the cause of environmentalism only pick some detrimental thing to fight, that they can see from the road, without giving much thought to the long term results of their proposed actions. Taken to their extremes, they have the human race being a detriment to the environment and the resulting opinion that there should be no human race.  

It is little known, because of all of the turmoil caused by these groups, but Foresters are environmentalists. Rather than shooting from the hip, they have gone to school to accumulate generations of knowledge in leaving the forest a better place. Loggers aren't usually Foresters, but the legitimate ones are environmentalists too.  If they destroy the forest, its the same as the soldier who craps in his mess kit.  He has to know how to use the tools of his trade and will rely on the instructions of a Forester for guiding the harvest.   Logging is a messy proposition and doesn't fare well in the eyes of most Urbanites who are used to "order" and neatness and places of disposal, with the work being done by "someone else".   A logged property looks to be a mess alongside of the judgments of those people. Actually, the forest will benefit from some of the same situations that the untrained think of as detrimental.  Streams aren't intentionally dirtied, but those that do get dirty clean themselves. It's natures way of passing nutrients down stream and nature's way of keeping house.  We don't stop to look at it that way until we can blame a "man" for the unsightly site.   Of course we judge unsightly by what, an opinion made by an untrained eye?  Forests develop in human generations, not snapshots in time.  Those same limbs left in the tailings of a harvest would have naturally been dropped where they lay anyway.  And, just as those that fell naturally, the tailings will return to the soil as well.  Why doesn't it look good?   It's because we humans think that the floor should be swept and that the furniture should all go back where it was in the beginning and that the janitor should not leave any footprints on the carpet.

We all do a lot of Monday morning quarter-backing.  Every one of us who has bought a sawmill has pointed out things we would have done differently.  Nobody buys a car that does everything they want.  Even our best friends will tick us off now and again, and it's all because we stop gathering the information at some point to make a decision rather than looking beyond to the end.

The fellows on this board, while not all college trained, have a different viewpoint of the Forest floor than someone who sees the forest from a window in town.  While their social skills might not be pristine, they don't want the woods torn up.  It's easy to anger them because they care so much.  They also see a bit down the road.   "Environmentalists" seem to enjoy picking on little points of contention to make other's squirm. When they don't have to suffer the results of their picking, their intimidation, their fly-by-the-seat-of-their-pants rules, it makes it a game.  They become the consultant who is the bird that craps in another bird's nest and leaves.  But, it's not a game to those who make their living there and can be a dangerous ploy.  

You know what scares me worse than the logger who muddied the stream?   It's the short-sighted, politically correct actions and views formed by the untrained bureaucracies of the Federal, State and City governments who are interested in making mandates that will threaten the freedoms of private ownership for generations to come.   We must all be careful of that which we wish.  

[woodmills1]

Here is a link to the man many consider to be the first conservationist/environmentalist and he was a forester

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gifford_Pinchot

[SwampDonkey]

The department of the Environment, UNB, and Service NB have built a wetland prediction layer (WPL) of the entire province of New Brunswick and is available for viewing on the GEONB map view website.  http://geonb.snb.ca/geonb

Some screen shots from GEONB website.









As the site explains, the boundaries are not legal descriptions for location and area (scope) of a wetland. Any work around wetlands may require a notice of intent and application for a permit to the department of environment. The responsibility for identifying and complying with the laws is still on developer, logger, woodlot owner.

Don't you just love it when the government comes up with a new tool and steps back from any responsibility if someone uses it and screws up?

From what I have heard over the radio recently, is this has created confusion. The environment minister is hosting seminars around the province in the coming months. I wonder how many people are going to get the information they need and how long after these seminars does the memory of it fade and distort. I would not expect the minister to be doing much more than finding the flaws and hearing the complaints. She most likely knows little about wetlands or has the knowledge or expertise to make suggestions.

[RPF2509]

Well chiming in from California - Regulations have inflated the cost of harvesting so much that a government approved harvest plan can cost $20K and up and take over a year for approval.  Stream crossing permits are $1200 for each.  Helicopters won't move in unless you have 1/2 million bf and will cost $3-400/ mbf.  Fortunately smaller landowners have some relief in the regulations but the crossings will still cost you.  Maybe that's why CA imports 80% of its lumber.

[SwampDonkey]

The Minister of Environment announced a reprieve March 18, on the new mapping and regulations which had declared 23% of the land cover as wetland, 50 meter buffer (from 30 m), and required site assessment. It will now be using  DNR  forestry mapping which indicates 6% of the land cover as designated wetlands, and both the 30 meter buffer and permit application as before. The only difference is the old maps will not be used, they had 4% wetlands. The meetings around the province have been packed with a lot of upset folks over the proposed changes, and the folks in the Saint John meeting applauded the Minister for reverting back to the status quo. Environmentalists did a little whining, but that's expected.