Lumber Grader School......?

[islandlogger]

I've had a guy tailing for me on my mill that I am always impressed with and will stick with till the day one of us falls over!! I am expanding his duties and am thinking of sending him on a Lumber Grading Course, anyone have any thoughts or ideas on this? Links? Info? Am gratefull for all/any input!!

[inwoodcutter]

If you were out here in the mid west I would know of more options for you. Are you looking for just a week log or few day long course or something real serious like going to NHLA grader school? I remember talking to the guys at Oregon State about a short course they hold.

[islandlogger]

What kind of qualifications does the week long course get you? And how long is the full course?
Thanks!

[solidwoods]

Howdy.
You haven't given many clues to how your business is structured but I'll give it a whing.
I'll guess you are a 3-4 person operation with a band mill.

I'd say you (the sawyer?) and the tail man should self study NHLA rules.
The rules are pretty easy to learn.
Also my opinion is the sawyer should be the first person to learn NHLA rules (if your selling graded lumber).
Because if the tail man learns first, it won't be long till he stops the cut and says "hey we can make more money if you cut that other face instead".
So learn it together. 
Now you pick the face (he is right their watching also) you both agree , make the cut, then he gets a little time to re-look at the face, check the other/hidden face and make the grade decision.  Then stack it in that grade stack .
Your concept is a good efficient idea for a small operation.

Now if you are a circle mill making 6-8k bf per day then the tail man better have an S on his chest.
jim

S = Super Man
And if you ever need a helper just call, I know your area, it's beautiful.

[Ron Wenrich]

Are you doing hardwoods or softwoods?  Being in Washington, I would think that you were doing softwoods.  Does that require a stamp?

I took a short course at Penn State a long time ago.  Maybe one of the universities that have a forest products course offer those some short courses.  I would also try one of the industry groups.  Sometimes they sponsor workshops. 

The grading process that we use in the eastern US is somewhat different in the western part.  I know that grading alder and maple out west is much different, since they have cabinet and shop grades instead of the standard FAS, F1F, etc. 

[inwoodcutter]

As far as the University offered short courses go, the only requirements are to pay the registration fee and show up. We like to see a scaling rule but understand that not every one can swing the $50 for a Conway-Cleveland if they aren't going to use it all the time. I enjoy going and sawing just because we have real discussions. We get everyone from the one man mill to some big time timber buyer. Each one sees the tree and the logs take different forms. They have different values on material. Last time we figured because of the depressed market that it was more profitable to saw rail ties than to take the effort of sawing 1 common white oak. Just take the FAS and 1face and all the boards down to make a 7x9. Like I said before someone up there has to have an extention office that does that.

I'm not at all familiar with softwood grading. I would assume that WWP would be a good place to start.

[islandlogger]

Thanks for the thoughts folks and to answer a question regarding my operation I do run a small scale operation but my thoughts are to expand a bit, normally I run the run but have decided to train my tailer up on that to leave me free to be in the woods taking down the timber and cant be two places at once, figure if my tailer can run mill for me and grade etc it would increase production and make me some extra $$$. I run a Peterson Swing Blade and cut 95% soft woods. I can sell non structure material without a stamp but demand for quality studs and also beams is coming in and they require that fancy stamp!!
My tailer doesn't have a S on his shirt, but I tell you what, he deserves one, he makes me alot of extra money and he gets rewarded for it, when you get a good tailer folks then by gawd hold onto him long as you can and treat him like he is Superman!!

Please keep the input coming in and thanks!!

[nhlagrader153class]

i have went to the shool in memphis tennessee for hardwood lumber grading and it is a great school and is way better than learning it on your own or having someone teach you unless they went to the school.The three day short course are a joke send him to memphis or find someone like me.I would teach him if you want i live in waverly new york if that is close to you and i am looking for a new job also if you need a employee i want to be a mill supervisor cause the mills around here for the most part do not pay graders what there worth a good grader can up grade your lumber to justify  20 dollars a hour.I was the top student in my class the 153 class.Good luck and send him to memphis it is 13 weeks and is 1500 dollar and housing is the big cost be careful memphis is rough i got rob at gun piont at a pizza store in the good part of town.The NHLA is the name of the school.tThe web address is www.nhla.com and the number 901 767 9126

[Chico]

Hold on to Islandlogger people like that are hard to find imo if he's going to be the sawyer then you're headed in the right direction there's a lot to made or lost sawing any grade softwoods are the easier of the two and I would send him to a short course then keep a lookout for supplement courses ie export etc  then if you begin to get heavy into HW do the same thing  He will develop an eye for it and make the right cuts instinctively after a while the main thing is you will have to allow him to make mistakes to learn and remember that some borderline cuts are seen diff by multiple people
Good Luck

[backwoods sawyer]

Hold on to Islandlogger people like that are hard to find imo if he's going to be the sawyer then you're headed in the right direction there's a lot to made or lost sawing any grade softwoods are the easier of the two and I would send him to a short course then keep a lookout for supplement courses ie export etc  then if you begin to get heavy into HW do the same thing  He will develop an eye for it and make the right cuts instinctively after a while the main thing is you will have to allow him to make mistakes to learn and remember that some borderline cuts are seen diff by multiple people
Good Luck

[inspectorwoody]

Congrats on your graduation nhlagrader153class! 

There are people out there who are self taught and can do just as well grading lumber as those of us who went to Memphis. It all boils down to how an individual learns.

I have not attended a short course but know some who have. Your getting a lot of information in 3 days or a week. This again would boil down to how the individual learns but also how the instructor teaches. I wouldn't go as far as to say it is a joke.

I don't know your past work history nhlagrader, but to come out of Memphis and expect someone to hire you as a mill supervisor may be asking a lot. You may have been top dog in your class but, how you hold yourself on a grading line, how well you can understand and communicate with fellow employees, how you present yourself and communicate with customers etc. is the real derterming factor in my opinion. There are those who don't do so hot in the class room but get them out in the mill hands on and they pick up on it quickly. A pin knot is a pin knot and ol' Rich wouldn't let one slide but the real world is a different story.

Here again in my opinion, you can not come out of Memphis being top dog with a certificate and think your worth big bucks. I didn't see a significant increase in wage until I had some time on the line  under my belt which is to be expected.

Your probably an alright guy, but to come out so bold with your first post may be a little over the top.  I was bold a few times too but it doesn't take long to realize it is better just to be good at what you do and not walk with your chest stuck out. 


Good Luck on your job search and again Congrats!

[Gblombo]

The NHLA school is very good at giving detail on how to grade a board after it has been removed from log.  I've been through the school and came in tops in my class in 1993.  I've trained many lumber inspectors since in the operations I have managed.  The problem (and most cost prohibitive factor) with the NHLA school is the length of time you will be with out your employee and the opportunity cost of his absence.

I agree the short courses are weak, but they don't have to be.  If you are interested in an intensive onsite program give me a call.  This is within the scope of my business.  I work onsite during production time, then we'll stop for break out sessions throughout the day.  OJT.  I can have him understanding the rules and operating at an acceptable level within a week.  My website offers this as part of my scope.  Generally I do it with purchasing agents, but it is definitely more fun to do in the mill with guys on the floor.

The most important thing to keep with your man is trust.  As long as you are straight with him about the values of the lumber he'll make good decisions for you.  I've done consulting work in many sawmills that are afraid to let the "workers" know the value of the product they are producing for fear of them blabbing about the cost per m' to the competition.  If you don't trust your people to make decisions its either because they are untrustworthy in your eyes (which is a problem) or you are paranoid (which is a problem).

Check out moulderblank.com

Greg