My 660 died - has anyone rebuilt one of these? dealer wants $500 to fix

[Dalden]

The saw was running fine right up until the end.  Got a little low on gas (yes it was mixed and at 40/1) saw died.  Filled 'er up then pulled twice -on the next pull it would not pull anymore.  Trip to the dealer confirmed piston scored - saw is siezed.  They want $500 to fix - ? I bought it used for only $150 more then that.

I found a piston and cylinder kit on evilbay for $97  is this a fairly easy fix?

  Has anyone else run into this -is this an easy saw to over-rev - I'm milling ash/oak etc. but this log was only around 20" and I was on the first slab -so maybe 8" of chain in use on a 36"  alaskan?  I have never burned up a saw before and certainly this was the last one I though I would kill?

[Dalden]

OK, one more question - does $500 seem resonable for the piston and cylinder re-do?

[DGK]

I just changed out the piston on one of my 660's. An easy repair to do. The troubleshooting as to why mine went lean is still a work in progress. I got my replacement piston from Baileys (Italian made). The cylinder was still OK for just a honing by the local machine shop. Good luck.

[SwampDonkey]

Would a dirty fuel filter cause it? On my brush saw I changed out my fuel filter and air filter and runs like a new saw. Someone told me they blew a saw like mine with a dirty fuel filter. I don't know if it's true, I'm no expert. Brush saws are used at higher RPM than chainsaws.

[islandlogger]

How much milling have you done with the saw? That kind of cutting is awfully hard on the unit no matter what (learned after many a year with Alaskan Mills!) and so it may just be normal wear for that application. If you havn't done alot of milling with it and as you say you bought it used it may be any number of things. Regardless, $500 is cheaper then a new saw BUT is still alot of Green, I would go along with the above mentioned and get the parts from Baileys and fix her up your self, it's cheaper and good for your own experience. If you do alot of Alaskan Milling I would suggest upgrading to a bigger saw, I use a Stihl 0-84 now for the few times I do it anymore, more bang for your buck and the saw generally has enough extra power to not get over worked.....

                          Best of luck!!

[Flatheadyoungin]

"well, fella, it'll cost ya about $500 to fix that one........but see that shiny new one over there on the shelf, i can put you in it real right........"

do you wanna sell your 660?

joking aside, i have been wanting one, and like a dummy, i like projects....

[joe_indi]

Other than a blocked pickup body or carb strainer, there are several other possible causes, for example the saw, its a MS660 right?
MS 660 and the 066 have more differences and they are not in the numbers of the models.
The MS660 runs a bit leaner than the 066 because it has a 0.64 fixed jet compared to the more 'lavish' 0.66 jet on the older 066.
Ignition timing is another. Port timing still another.
You could change the jet to a 0.66 or even a 0.68 from an old MS460 carb.Jets are available as spares.
The ignition and port timing? not much you could do as a simple job.
But, you could compensate in another way.
Check the cylinder gasket.
If it is a black metal one, it is a high compression gasket.Use two to lower the compression a wee bit.
Doing all this will prevent the saw from overheating from 'under load' the next time.

Regarding your seized piston, scouring on the cylinder can be removed with a bit of muratic acid  treatment an a final polishing rub with emery.
Dip the cylinder in a solution of washing soda or even baking soda with water.
This will neutralize any acid in the cylinder, dry out  before installing it.
Dont worry if there are any scratch marks on the cylinder surface.It takes a lot of effort to kill a 066/660 cylinder.
The piston  should be usable once a criss cross polishing is done.Flip the rings (top to bottom groove and vice versa).
Apply a light coating of grease to the surface of the piston and cylinder.
This will see the saw through the first few seconds of running at adequate compression before the metal surfaces seat.
Open the L screw half way from the stop. H screw should be full out from its stop.
After the saw has been put together again,with the spark plug removed and switch Off,  'gargle' out the insides with some fuel.
Pour some fuel through the carb intake with the throttle fully pressed, an ounce should do.
With the throttle stilled pressed, pull on the starter a couple of times.
Then turn the saw upside down and repeat the starter pulling (with throttle pressed) a couple of times.
Screw in the spark plug, move the switch to 'fast  idle' (Start) and one pull on the starter should have that saw going again.

Spend that $500 on the wife and kids for Christmas.


Joe

[Dalden]

 ;DOK folks,  First thanks for all the info. 

I think I will buy the parts -  and see if Bailey's has the larger port.  This is an MS 660 not an 066 and as Joe pointed out so maybe the jet did let it go lean.  If I'm changing the cylinder and piston I can look at the gasket and follow your other suggestion.
The dealer suspected an air leak or previous damage from it's first owner.  Though I feel that the saw was "hotter" then normal when I was milling.  This was actually the first cut I made using the alaskan rig.  I am looking to do custom beam or half-log mantles and make other stuff to sell from some of the ash around here (livingston county, mi)
Is there a way to limit the top end rev? 

[John Mc]

You mentioned that the saw got a little low on gas and died. Did it run out of gas under load or at high RPMs? In those last few seconds before it dies totally, as saw will run very lean before running out of gas. Might not be a big deal if you are at idle, but might damage the cylinder if it's rev'd up?

John Mc

[Dalden]

Thanks John,

I had just let it come down to idle when it stopped running, I was checking to be sure I would clear the slab rail mount.  Saw cut out at idle.  Filled it back up and got two pulls trying to restart -third pull the saw siezed.  It's is really scored on the exhast side -so I'm thinking it was lean -don't know about the rest yet.

[Al_Smith]

Everybody has well intended ideas on this type of situation .

You know on an occasion of a lean type of seizure condition such as this just cleaning up the piston and jug will add hours to the usefull life of the saw engine  .

Some folks think it has to be perfect but I can show you the fastest hot saws in the US of A that are less than that . Clean it up if possible .If it does  clean out it likely won't run for the next 30 years but it might make ten . Oil in the mix gents .

[Dalden]

Everybody has well intended ideas on this type of situation .

You know on an occasion of a lean type of seizure condition such as this just cleaning up the piston and jug will add hours to the usefull life of the saw engine  .

Some folks think it has to be perfect but I can show you the fastest hot saws in the US of A that are less than that . Clean it up if possible .If it does  clean out it likely won't run for the next 30 years but it might make ten . Oil in the mix gents .

Speaking of OIL in the mix -  is 40/1 OK for milling with a 660? (don't wanna start a war here)  Or should I have thinkened it up a bit.  I know I will fix the saw (sorry - flatheadyoungin) I found parts for $97 and the dealer in question wanted 160 for the labor - I'll pay that if he will use my parts or follow the most common respose around here and fix it myself.  I figure the dealer may be able to provide the actual reason for the problem so I can avoid it  - 

I just ordered the EFCO MT8200 as a back-up and to find out just how long I can make a new saw last.  My old homelite is still running  -

[Al_Smith]

 Well first of all milling is about the toughest thing you can subject a saw to .As such it would be a good idea to make sure the carb is set just a tad bit on the rich side .

The 40 to one should be just fine but if it were running a tad lean it could cause problems .

Another thing ,if that 066 is running a stock muffler and running lean the heat has to go some place if not out the exhaust so it cooks the piston . Lean fuel mixtures burn faster than richer fuel mixtures and as such produce more heat . A restricted exhaust path just amplifies the problem .

Now I'm not saying to fatten up the carb until it blows black smoke ,just enough so it is "4 cycling " unless it's really under a heavy load .

I imagine that saw had been burning the piston for some time,you just didn't know it .Chances are it was just coincidental that it took a notion to take a fit on you after it hiccupped running out of fuel .

[ladylake]

 

 You need to pull the limiter caps and adjust richer on your new Efco, most saws nowdays come set on the lean edge thanks to the EPA and for milling they should be set a little rich.  Putting a new P@C on takes somewhere around 2 hours, I'd do it myself for $160, if you've never done it , it's not that hard or find a friend that could help.   Steve

[joe_indi]

I just ordered the EFCO MT8200 as a back-up and to find out just how long I can make a new saw last.  My old homelite is still running  -

 You need to pull the limiter caps and adjust richer on your new Efco, most saws nowdays come set on the lean edge thanks to the EPA and for milling they should be set a little rich.  Putting a new P@C on takes somewhere around 2 hours, I'd do it myself for $160, if you've never done it , it's not that hard or find a friend that could help.   Steve

This is the same saw that I field tested nearly a year ago.
It was as the Oleomac GS820.
It is a very sturdy saw.Plenty of low end torque.
I think the limiter caps are best left undisturbed because the digital coil ensures that the rpm does not climb too high.This leaves the engine running a bit rich at high speeds, if the load is too low.
Don't be misled by the four stroking at full throttle, its the digital coil cutting off the spark for alternate strokes of the piston.The digital coil also adjusts the ignition timing in relation to the rpm.
Only check if the coil is the original version or the modified one.The modified one is better.

Joe

[ladylake]

 Joe.. It's not the RPM that caused the meltdown it was from being lean what ever the reason, set that way, air leak, fuel lines, clogged vent or filter to mention a few.  A lot of saws come set to lean. I won't run a new saw until I'm sure it rich enough by pulling the caps and making sure. I bought a new Echo CS370 that sounded rich due to the coil limiter, but was way lean, about 1/2 turn on the high adjuster. Cut times side by side went from 15 seconds to 9 seconds after adjusting. It ran with the factory setting but surely would have burnt up in the 1st long hard cut, if just used for limbing it might have lasted but would be gutless. These guys running saws on mills need to have their saws a little richer than normal.  Steve

[Dalden]

Thanks for all the help guys-

This time last year I was fixing around 1000 laptops and desktop computers per year.  The company closed up the repair shop and outsourced the work this June. Been laid-off since - I don't want to have my future in the hands of CEO types anymore so were going to try to make a go of cutting and selling finished mantels/shelves/turnings etc.  We can get all the wood I can cut around here for next to nothing.  I don't have a whole lot of experiance with any of this -but I can learn on the go.  This forum sure helps shorten the learning curve.
I'm sure I can fix the 660 myself - however I'm hoping the dealer will give me an idea of what happened (air leak - whatever) I think the saw was more used up then the seller wanted to admit so -***
Don't wanna tear up the new EFCO so I will likely run 35/1 gas and adjust the high end a little rich.  Which way does the screw turn to go about 1/4 turn rich?  I bet the manufacturer does not give that info in the manual?

[Flatheadyoungin]

Well, dang! 

yeah, fix that saw yourself......save the $$, take pics and let people on here tell you what to do....they'd love it....

feed a man once, teach him to fish and feed him for life.....well, something like that!

I know I will fix the saw (sorry - flatheadyoungin)

[Cut4fun]

Well, dang!   

Southern Ohio.   I would guess West Portsmouth.

So have to heard of Muletown  about 15 north

[ladylake]

 You need to turn the high counterclockwise to get it richer, most time you need to pull the limiter caps to do this, You want to set it so it blubbers when held wide open out of the wood and soon as you start cutting it sound goods again, These rev limiting coils can fool you into thinking it rich when it not so open the high until you know its slowing the saw down then back in gradually until it cuts the fastest, if you get to lean it will rev high but bog easy.   Steve