I Know It's Been Asked but Need the Latest Word on Saws ... Best Bang for the $$

[H60 Hawk Pilot]

I have a Older Homelite.. it' s a Super XL12 . The saw is Ok for a 20 + year old saw, maybe older.

I've started to look for a good log yard saw for 22 to 30 inch White Pine & Hemlock Logs.   

I deal at Lowe's and Tractor Supply a lot. I saw the Husky line they have..  I think the Rancher 455 or 450 is there.  I stopped at the local lawn mower place and saw the Echo line, their  big saw was $ 519.00 (don't remember the No#) and weighed 11 pound. He said they went up to $ 640.00 this year and it's last years model.

I did not want to rob the bank to buy a new saw, however, if it's a great saw and everyone swears by it.. I'll buy it.   

I did read in one of the other post's.. Do Not Buy with Anti Kick Back Chain.. Worthless.


Avery

[Dalden]

Take a look at the EFCO saws  - Bailey's sells them and I have seen them at even better prices then those you quoted for the Big Name saws at TSC/Depot/Lowes.  The EFCO's have a two year commercial warrenty which is better even then Stihl.  I just burned up my 660 so I was looking for a new saw for not much more then the repair quote - EFCO has one-

Mybe someone else on the forum has one and can comment on it -I'm iterested in a new saw too?

[islandlogger]

I honestly would NOT ever by a Echo saw, I havn't had much experience with Efco but a friend of mine bought one and curses it daily....
I will swear by the Stihl though only the ones still made and put together in Germany (usually these are the bigger saws now) I find the smaller models are getting rather funky....
However, recently I burned out my mid size saw and have been looking for a replacement, was going to go with Solo but then tryed out a Dolmar 5100S and beleive me I put it through the paces for a solid two week stint on a Gary Oak restoration project run by a Consulting Forrester buddy of mine (it was his Dolmar I used) and was impressed enough to decide to buy one, good mid range saw and has a high zip to it, take a 24 inch bar easy enough and alot of pull behind it, check them out!!

                                                                    Good luck

[gemniii]

I honestly would NOT ever by a Echo saw, I havn't had much experience with Efco but a friend of mine bought one and curses it daily....

Echo? Efco? or both?
Anyways -
Whose your local dealer?
I wanted a Makita, but there were NO dealers within distance for repair etc.
I wanted another Stihl (I've got an 021, 35CC), a 441 (70cc).
BUT
northern tool Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company discontinued Efco and I stumbled across an MT 3600 (35cc) for $50 (marked price $220).  Then I won a rebadged (to John Deere CS62) 63cc Efco. 
I've only put about 4 tanks thru the MT3600 and less than 1 thru the JD.  Lot's of HP for weight.
After much research on another board I believe they are first class saws.
They do have an outboard clutch.  I would HIGHLY reccommend Efco if you get them at significant discount.  They have a 5 yr consumer (ie Hawk Pilot and son) warranty.

That said I'm looking for a Stihl 660.

[thecfarm]

I myself would not buy from a big box store.Even if I could save some money.I support my local dealer.You need to find a good saw shop and buy from them.A good dealer can be hard to find at times.Have friends with saws?Ask them the same question.I feel Stihl,Husky,Jonsered are all just about the same.Just depends if you are happy with the dealer.I like a local dealer so when I do have trouble,I can get it back in a few days.

[chucker]

bought a new efco 147 from northerntool in july, have cut 75 cords 4x4x8 of pine,aspen and red oak with no problems!! spent about 350.00 for the other red cutting devil.. wood buy another again someday when i wear this one out...

[islandlogger]

I love this forum great having input from all around the states/globe to compare with....that being said I read some folks have had luck with the Efco, I never used one, just went by what my buddy said about his and maybe he got a unlucky unit. And I agree with a above comment that good dealers are hard to come by, I am luck with mine (Harbor Rentals in Friday Harbor WA) in that they are a Stihl dealership but also a rental shop so can/will work on all makes and models and they know their stuff. Take the time to check dealerships out and ask folks who use them how they are treated etc.
Gemini, you can't go wrong with a Sthil 660, I love mine bought back when it was a 0-66 and have NEVER had trouble with it and get's alot of very punishing use, those babies pull some chips and not much slows them down. How do you like your 441? I am looking to replace my 0-44....

[DGK]

I run 3 MS660s, 1 MS 460 and a MS260.  I use the 660's for bucking multiple stems of beetle-killed spruce. The 460 is a backup for the 660's. The Ms 260 is the saw that I pack around on the ATV, use around the mill, or use for limbing when necessary. The saws usually run about 4 hours straight 2 days per week. So far, 1 660 has had a piston seize due to a lean condition which the cause is still unknown. The other 2 660's and 460 have run without any problems except for the needle cage bearings needing to be replaced several times. The stihl bearings have a plastic cage that tends to melt if it runs out of grease. I have since started replacing them with an all metal bearing from Baileys for a third of the price.

[DGK]

Needle cage bearings on the clutch drum.

[GASoline71]

How the heck do you guys "burn up" so many saws?  And clutch bearings don't "run out" of grease...

I dunno, I'm not sayin' that I'm the cool guy here or anything... but in 30+ years of cuttin' I have never "burned up" a saw...

Anyways... to the OP... Stay away from the box store Husqvarnas... find a dealer... look at the 359 or a 357XP... a Stihl MS361 (now MS362) is compareable to these.

Gary

[DGK]

If clutch drum needle cage bearings don't run out of grease, why do they melt and why does the maintenance manual tell you to lubricate them?

[chucker]

   thats the easiest fix with each rim driver replaced i always grease the bearings!! another great feature of the jonsered 600 modles, the chain side has the crank shaft drilled to grease the needle bearings without tearing it apart!! must be a ford idea??

[John Mc]

If clutch drum needle cage bearings don't run out of grease, why do they melt and why does the maintenance manual tell you to lubricate them?

Maybe what Gary was getting at was that it's not the bearing's fault? It doesn't "run out of grease", someone forgets to grease it.

John Mc

[DGK]

I have started to grease my needle cage bearings after every 8 to 12 hours of operation as opposed to the manufacturers recommendation of  greasing each time the rim sprocket is replaced.

[ladylake]

 I own a lot of different brands over here and there's nothing wrong with most.
 2   044 Stihls  nice well built saws, a tad heavy for my old bones.
      MS170 Stihl   gutless, built cheap but runs good.
      385xp Husky  built good, good power but heavy 23# full with B@C
     Husky 55 Rancher  not the best power for 53cc built decent, light
     Echo  510  and 520  With a muffler mod and tuned right these saws rip.are light and always run , my favorites by far.
    Echo  CS440 built real well, light ,always run,  not the best power for 45cc but a lot of grunt.
   Echo CS6700.  Built well, with a muffler mod just a hair behind my 044 Stihls for cutting speed and 1# lighter.
   Echo CS8000 Built well,  torque monster, just a hair behind my 385xp in cutting speed, not near the engine speed but huge torque.  Same weight/
  Echo CS370    Built fair, 36cc  cuts almost twice as fast as my MS170  30cc
  Solo 690   Built well, heavy  25# full  90cc  smokes my 385xp  85cc.
  Cub Cadet 56cc (Efco)  Built well, fair power, heavy for the power
  Dolmar 143  Built well, huge power if you can lift it  27# full
  Solo 30cc  built cheap, even more gutless than my MS170.    Steve

[Rocky_J]

Greasing the sprocket bearing too often will lead to a buildup of crud clogging up the centrifugal clutch. When your chain keeps spinning at an idle then you get the pleasure of either taking the clutch apart to scrape out the caked, baked on crud or else buying a new clutch. Use VERY LITTLE grease on the clutch bearing. Glob it on too often and you create problems down the road.

[GASoline71]

Maybe what Gary was getting at was that it's not the bearing's fault? It doesn't "run out of grease", someone forgets to grease it.

John Mc

Yep... exactly John.

I have saws that have lots and lots and lots of hours... and maybe have had the clutch bearin "greased" twice.  We're talkin' 028's and 044's here.  If you are smoking clutch bearings... you are runnin' your chains waaaaayyyyy too tight. 

...and like Brian said... for you overengineers that grease stuff up every time you flip a bar, or every so many hours... you can gum up the internals, and make stuff even worse.  If and when I ever grease a clutch bearing... it is a very small dag of high temp disc brake grease.  I'm not sayin' you shouldn't do it... But... These aren't tractors... so easy on the grease... Just a dab'll do ya! 

Gary

Gary

[Cut4fun]

(DGK said.
except for the needle cage bearings needing to be replaced several times. The stihl bearings have a plastic cage that tends to melt if it runs out of grease.
Needle cage bearings on the clutch drum.)

So the NEW Stihls have plastic caged clutch drum bearing now?

[Al_Smith]

To tell the truth I'm a bit bewildered also  about this burning up a clutch drum bearing . About the only thing I can think  of to make that happen is letting the saw idle with the brake on  for extended periods of time .

Now how anyone runs their saws is none of my business but mine are either cutting or shut off .They don't idle very much . 

[DGK]

I would be curious as to how many others out there cut approximately 200 full cords of 16" firewood with each of their saws per year. The more a saw gets used the more maintenance it will require. 

[wi woodcutter]

How the heck do you guys "burn up" so many saws?  And clutch bearings don't "run out" of grease...

I dunno, I'm not sayin' that I'm the cool guy here or anything... but in 30+ years of cuttin' I have never "burned up" a saw...

Anyways... to the OP... Stay away from the box store Husqvarnas... find a dealer... look at the 359 or a 357XP... a Stihl MS361 (now MS362) is compareable to these.

Gary

I was kind of wondering how so many people "burn up" so many saws too? I have only seen one burned up saw. A friend of mines dad put straight gas in his Husky 55 and that did it in.

[ladylake]

 The only time the clutch bearing does anything is at idle without the chain turning. I was just sawing with a older gent that starts his saw with the brake on on fast idle. That would heat that bearing up fast.. Other than that there are people that leave their diesel pickup idle all day for no reason at all.   Steve

[DGK]

Hello Ladylake,

Thanks for the constructive reply. When we are using our saws, we apply the brake while it is idling. Maybe this is the true reason for the bearing failures that I have had. To keep things in perspective, I have had 3 bearing failures on 3 different saws each after about 200 hours of use. We need to keep the saws idling for cool down between loads of wood. Example we cut a turn of wood about 1/3+ of a cord in about 4 minutes (2 saws running) then, they idle for around 3 minutes then full throttle again for about 4 minutes. This goes on for about 4 hours straight. The saws don't get shutdown except for fuel & oil or chain replacement.I think that I'll try not applying the brake and see if this helps.

[ladylake]

 Doug   If your saws idle just a little bit too fast with the brake on that would be hard on those bearings, give it a try without the brake or slow the idle down just a little.  Steve

[beenthere]

DGK
A short 8 minute video of that "hot saw" work would be interesting. 

I don't like the idling noise, so shut the saw off if it is set on the ground. Also, never pull the brake on. That might not be the best idea in the world, but it is the way it is with me.

I don't understand the idling for cool down. Seems the saw would cool faster if shut off. Granted, there is no air moving past the cooling fins, but still....how much air does an idling saw move that cools more than the internal heat generated by the saw firing?  And to me, an idling saw doesn't burn clean which leads to plug fouling and maybe fouling under the head and in the muffler.  Don't know these answers, just thinking of other two-stroke engines and even some four stroke experiences.

[DGK]

Hi Beenthere,

When were bucking wood there is so much other noise from the Bobcat that the idling saw is no problem. Haven't had any plug issues at all. We have tried shutting down the saws in the past but they appeared to hotter than when left idling (sawdust smoking etc),plus we were going through pull cords.



. Sorry no videos available. but here is picture of one end of the bundle of wood being bucked.

[stonebroke]

DGK You guys ever think about a firewood processor?

Stonebroke

[DGK]

Hi Stonebroke,

Ya though about it, researched it etc. Our market here is primarily for round wood as opposed to split. Most of the trees that we use for firewood are under 12" dbh. When you start looking at processors, the production numbers are usually based on large diameter trees. We are able to buck about 3 cord per hour using the chainsaws. This works well for me. There are guys in town with processors but the cost of the machine vs. the volume produced doesn't seem too profitable.

[GASoline71]

I don't understand the idling for cool down. Seems the saw would cool faster if shut off. Granted, there is no air moving past the cooling fins, but still....how much air does an idling saw move that cools more than the internal heat generated by the saw firing?  And to me, an idling saw doesn't burn clean which leads to plug fouling and maybe fouling under the head and in the muffler.  Don't know these answers, just thinking of other two-stroke engines and even some four stroke experiences.

Me either... saws are not like diesels with a turbo... where they need to idle down to cool the turbo off.  Or after pullin' a hard load a transmission will get hot, so you keep the engine idleing for cool down.

Gary

[stonebroke]

Dgk, Are you cutting killed trees, so they are already dry?

Stonebroke

[Al_Smith]

 That's a pretty good sized operation there  I have to say . I think the most I ever cut in an entire year was around 60-70 cords and that was years ago when I sold the stuff .

[DGK]

Stonebroke,

We cut Beetle-kiled spruce which has been standing dead for up to 15 years. Very dry wood so it is ready to burn right away.

[Al_Smith]

 Now like Paul Harvey says,the rest ot the story 

Spruce is like cutting balsa wood which explains how you can cut up three cords per hour . I've cut and burned the stuff in the Colorado mountains deer hunting and it isn't the greatest fire wood I'll tell you that .

Of course if that's all you have you have to make do with it  .Then  too I suppose we in the east are spoiled  with our vast assortments of hard woods .Which by the way you can't get three cords per hour . One guy would be lucky to get that much in a day ,long one at that .

[DGK]

That's 3 cord per hour with 2 saws running and a bobcat supporting the operation. Bucked 16 or 18" lengths not split. Semi-trailer loads of wood nice and neat.

 

[Al_Smith]

 Like I said you could do it on those fence post sized soft woods all piled up nice  and neat .Never happen on good old eastern oak out of the woods .

[DGK]

I wish that we had some hardwood. Pretty much just white spruce and a bit of pine here. 

[John Mc]

... Then  too I suppose we in the east are spoiled  with our vast assortments of hard woods.

I'll say. I've run into people here in New England who say "Oh no, you can't burn softwoods. It's not safe. You'll get too much creosote build-up and start a chimney fire."

To which I reply: creosote build-up is mostly a function of burning green wood, or not operating your wood stove properly (starving the fire for air). What do you think wood burners use in areas where softwoods are the only thing that grows? The only difference is, they've got to make more frequent trips to the woodpile than someone burning hardwoods does.

John Mc

[cb6048]

husky 346xp nuff said

[Al_Smith]

No doubt a 346 is a nice little saw ,so are others in that size range for that matter .

As far as burning conifers for firewood ,if that's alll you have you really have little choice in the matter .  An air tight stove though will compound the creosote problem I can assure you that from prior experiance . Perhaps with more air and a hotter fire it wouldn't be so bad .

In those Colorado mountains I had mentioned you have two choices .Either dead blue spruce or quakeing aspen . Neither is the best but ya gotta do what you gotta do because once the sun sets at around 10-11,000 feet it gets rather chilly . Down right cold as a matter of fact .

[John Mc]

No doubt a 346 is a nice little saw ,so are others in that size range for that matter .

It sure is a nice saw, but it ain't cheap.

As far as burning conifers for firewood ,if that's all you have you really have little choice in the matter .  An air tight stove though will compound the creosote problem I can assure you that from prior experiance . Perhaps with more air and a hotter fire it wouldn't be so bad .

In fact, it burns quite nicely (although quickly, and without much coals) with the appropriate amount of air. That's one of the reasons the newer EPA certified stoves won't let you choke the air down as far as the older "airtight" stoves did. The fire burns a lot dirtier when starved for air - higher particulate emissions, and a lot more creosote. You lose a lot of BTUs burning that way as well... some of what's going up the chimney will burn, but not at the lower temperatures of a smoldering fire.  but I guess I'm getting quite off the OP's topic here.

[Al_Smith]

No in fact a 346 is not cheap .However if one were to look back in history saws have never been cheap . Fact is in retrospect they are actually cheaper than they were in the 60's .

I personally don't buy new saws ,only two of same in my lifetime .

However if you say take into consideration that a 200T Stihl will pay for itself in a day or two it isn't that bad . My first saw was an S-25 Poulan which I still have .It was 139.95 on sale . That saw paid for itself in just few days because I was selling firewood at the time . The fact it that saw has likely paid me back 100 fold the original price--plus I still have it .

[gemniii]

I've started to look for a good log yard saw for 22 to 30 inch White Pine & Hemlock Logs.   

Avery

Well I've just finshed my first tank and then about another half with my John Deere CS62 (aka Efco).
It's a little heavy for me for overhead work, but waist high and lower it's great w/ a 20" bar and full chisel chain.
If you search around you might be able to find a good bargain on one since John Deere has now switched to selling Stihls.

[ladylake]

 The CS62 is one of Efco's better models, same weight as the 56cc saws and more power, built good.  There were some really good deals on Ebay a while back.   Steve

[weimedog]

I love these "bang per buck" threads. Usually they go back and forth brands smashing or ego baiting..all fun. So I have to throw my hat into the ring.

Best bang per buck depends on how mechanical you are...and how fashion driven you are.

For me? The best Bang per buck has been provided with one of three saws:

1) A $10 Dollar Homelite 540 with  28 inch bar...aquired for ten bucks and I have added a few hours of elbow grease, a carb kit, new chain, new fuel & chain oil lines, just general clean up. Oh yea a couple of helicoils to strenghten the muffler & cover mounting points. Total spent? MAYBE 50 dollars. Its a second pull starting (reguardless of weather & temps) 88cc saw that can make a pile of chips in a hurry. Proven to be reliable as well.

2) My $150 dollar Husqvarna 455. Bought from Tractor Supply as a problem customer return. Of course this was two days after an ICE STORM! So I gambled & argued and ended up with it along with a pair of 440e's for $150 dollars each. All looked brand new. All turned out to be..perfect and brand new with no issues I have found yet. One 440e was resold for $200 to help offset the gamble.....$450 minus $200...$250 dollars for two saws. The 440e has been used for countless hours reliable by my Wife, and the 455 by me for most of this summer. BOTH much better than reported here and places like this.

3) My $25 Dollar Homelite S-XL 925. It looked clean in the pile of saws I was picking over, it had compression but I didn't know at the time if it had spark..I gambled..It had spark. A fuel line, fuel filter, & carb kit later it was running really well. A new Oregon "Power Match" bar & Oregan chain later it was cutting wood. That was 7 years ago and it still runs strong as ever. So maybe $100 dollar saw...hours and hours of cutting hard maple, Ash and Hickory later its by far the best Bang per Buck saw I have.

From what I have heard and seen for "Newer" saws.

1) Those Makita/Dolmar 6400 series saws are hard to beat used or new. Especially when you can get a Barrel to build them to a 80cc power house..and yea there is that new filter upgrade.

2)Clean Ebay or used Husqvarna 266-272's or even newer 365's Usually under $350 bucks clean including mail and easy to build to what you want. 372's bring top dollar.

3) Those clean  Ebay or used 290 & 310 Stihls and other Stihl's that are the smaller CC versions of a particular class of Stihl saw. No one wants them used as they can get the bigger versions for the same money..they are better than posted about. My friends has a 310. Its been a solid machine in the harshes of environments.

Moral of this story? there are lots of great bang per buck situations out there if your mechanical enough and do a little research. Its fun as well...the hunt & gamble part at least. AND the money isn't that big so..have a little fun. It might turn into a habit.

My current project..a Husqvarna Model 61 thats loosing its 48mm barrel & topend entirely in favor of a like new 50mm top end & carb from a 268XP aquired for $50 bucks. Total dollars? When done? Maybe $150 invested total along with my time. I bet it will out cut, out last, and out run anything you could buy new for $300 dollars new.

[Al_Smith]

Best bang per buck depends on how mechanical you are...and how fashion driven you are.

   
   
 

That covers a lot of territory Walter . You gotta remember what forum you are on now . A few of us can fiddle and tinker and soup up saws that will outrun the next class size up but most can't . --or take 3 saws and come up with one but then again it goes back to that mechanical know how thing . Which I might add can be a a good thing or bad depending on how you look at it . I will say this though,it's neat to revamp a saw,maybe soup it up but you can certainly spend hours doing it .

[ladylake]

My last one was a CS5500 off Ebay with a bad coil (it was bad) and a broken case, it had one little chip out of it that make no difference. I bid $10 got it for $5.50 plus $17 shipping, put on a coil I has laying around and it ran good but kind of gutless. Then modded the muffler which really woke it up.  These Echo saws really wake up with a muffler mod.  My CS8000  is 3 saws put together .  Steve

[DanG]

Avery, unlike many of these guys, I hang out on other parts of the Forum and I know exactly what you want this saw to do for you.  I do the exact same thing you are wanting to do.  I chose the Echo CS-670 because they have the best dealer anywhere around here, and I've been very pleased with it.  I've had it for about 7 or 8 years now with no problems at all.  I know that becoming a chainsaw mechanic is not in your plans, and I've found both of my Echos to be very dependable.

[Al_Smith]

Yes indeed dealer support is very important and something that must be factored in if a person is not well adept in doing mechanical work on saws .

For  those of us who have a scad of saws of  nearly every make and model it means very little because if one is down for parts we might have 25-40 that do run . For those who only have one maybe two  ,you have to have a reliable place for both parts and mechanical work if needed . Not take in the saw and get it back two months later either .