Author Topic: Filing rakers question (Read 4212 times)

sprintfan11 · « **on:** October 22, 2009, 10:06:02 am »

I have been hand sharpening my chains and the results have been pretty good, (at least I'm getting better at it

but I haven't done much filing on the rakers. If the saw seems to not get a good bite at first and then after a second or two starts cutting good, is that a sign of too much raker height? What's the best way to file them down? I have the Husky sharpening kit with the roller device (I don't use) but it has a small metal template with two opening marked hard wood and soft wood. How exactly do I mount that over the chain tooth and raker to be able to file correctly? Or should I just round file the dang thing and use a different technique?

Thanks

beenthere · « **Reply #1 on:** October 22, 2009, 10:07:28 am »

That metal plate on that roller guide is what I use. Works well for me, if you don't have the safety chain.

If for hardwoods, use the side marked as such. Fit the small slot in behind the raker, and use a good fine flat file to file off what protrudes above the plate.

I find the roller guide the best way yet to hand file too.

sprintfan11 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 22, 2009, 10:23:35 am »

Quote from: beenthere on October 22, 2009, 10:07:28 am

That metal plate on that roller guide is what I use. Works well for me, if you don't have the safety chain.

If for hardwoods, use the side marked as such. Fit the small slot in behind the raker, and use a good fine flat file to file off what protrudes above the plate.

I find the roller guide the best way yet to hand file too.

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Does the plate rest on the tooth next to the raker? I mounted it that way but was unsure.

I switched to full chisel chains after getting some sound advice here and haven't used the roller at all anymore. I just clamp the saw in my workmate and sharpen.

RSteiner · « **Reply #3 on:** October 22, 2009, 10:25:37 am »

I use either an Oregon or Stihl raker gauge. If I remember right the average depth the raker wants to be from the top of the tooth is .025".

Too high raker height will produce fine chips and you will have to push on the saw a bit to make it cut. Too low raker height will make the chain grabby and not smooth cutting at all, especially when trying to make a plunge cut.

Randy

beenthere · « **Reply #4 on:** October 22, 2009, 10:36:51 am »

I switched from hand filing my chisel chains with no guide to the roller, and find the roller gives me good depth adjustment without having to fret over that one variable.

Here is a pic of the raker plate in position. Hope it helps.

sprintfan11 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 22, 2009, 10:41:07 am »

Quote from: beenthere on October 22, 2009, 10:36:51 am

I switched from hand filing my chisel chains with no guide to the roller, and find the roller gives me good depth adjustment without having to fret over that one variable.

Here is a pic of the raker plate in position. Hope it helps.
(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Thanks a ton, exactly what I was looking for.

Rocky_J · « **Reply #6 on:** October 22, 2009, 10:50:43 am »

Use the gauge to check the raker height, but move it out of the way to file the raker. A good flat file works well, just keep your stroke and pressure consistent and after the first one or two you will know exactly how many strokes to take on each raker to get them all fixed up right.

I don't even use a gauge any more, I just eyeball it by laying the file flat across the tops of the teeth and sighting the gap between the top of the raker and the bottom of the file. Then I know if I need to take 1, 2 or 3 strokes on each raker. It's all part of the sharpening process and only takes a couple minutes once you've done it a thousand times.

beenthere · « **Reply #7 on:** October 22, 2009, 11:17:14 am »

I leave the gauge there, and takes all the eyeballing, guessing, and risk of slipping with the flat file (and hitting the just-sharpened tooth

) out of the process. Only file what sticks through that the file can reach. No risk of filing too much. And I don't have to bend over to look 'neath the file at the gap.

If more bite is desired, then use the softwood notch.

This guage I like better, because it sets each raker for each tooth. Some other guages set on top of 2-3 teeth, and results in a raker based on the highest tooth, not the adjacent tooth.

I don't have as much experience as Rocky_J so will yield to him.

ely · « **Reply #8 on:** October 22, 2009, 02:41:11 pm »

doubtful i have as much experience either but i do it just like rocky says.

.
never even seen one of those dohickys yall posted.

Reddog · « **Reply #9 on:** October 22, 2009, 03:04:55 pm »

I have a couple gages I use in the shop. But find most times in the field I use the Rocky J technique of just laying the file across the teeth and seeing what the gap is.

ErikC · « **Reply #10 on:** October 27, 2009, 10:35:33 pm »

I use the file trick too, it's just kind of a checkup really. After a lot of sharpening you just sort of get a feel for it. I like about one good swipe more off the rakers than what the gizmos give me. If you aren't wanting to risk it though, file them with the tool-- It's pretty easy and maybe some peace of mind.

Tree Reb · « **Reply #11 on:** October 28, 2009, 07:17:19 am »

Quote from: Reddog on October 22, 2009, 03:04:55 pm

I have a couple gages I use in the shop. But find most times in the field I use the Rocky J technique of just laying the file across the teeth and seeing what the gap is.

Not much point me being here, you guys seem to have it under control.

sprintfan11 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 28, 2009, 07:37:36 am »

Quote from: Tree Reb on October 28, 2009, 07:17:19 am

Quote from: Reddog on October 22, 2009, 03:04:55 pm
I have a couple gages I use in the shop. But find most times in the field I use the Rocky J technique of just laying the file across the teeth and seeing what the gap is.

Not much point me being here, you guys seem to have it under control.

I will always welcome more input and advice, especially input and advice from here!

bandmiller2 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 29, 2009, 07:53:22 pm »

I'am possibly a crude dude but I just eyeball them and kiss them on the bench grinder,rounding the front slightly.Frank C.

Dave Shepard · « **Reply #14 on:** October 29, 2009, 09:32:26 pm »

I just hit them with the file. When the saw is sharp, but feels like it's cutting slow, I hit them each once or twice, depending on the species I'm sawing. I take them down a bit in white pine, but that makes it grabby in ash or locust.

SawTroll · « **Reply #15 on:** October 30, 2009, 08:32:56 pm »

Quote from: beenthere on October 22, 2009, 10:07:28 am

That metal plate on that roller guide is what I use. Works well for me, if you don't have the safety chain.

If for hardwoods, use the side marked as such. Fit the small slot in behind the raker, and use a good fine flat file to file off what protrudes above the plate.

I find the roller guide the best way yet to hand file too.

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Those sure works nicely for filing rakers, but you need the right one for the chain at hand!

barbender · « **Reply #16 on:** October 31, 2009, 10:13:04 am »

I like to take them down enough that the saw pulls into the wood, not me having to push it. That is farther than the .025 or .030 that the guages are usually set for. I just count my strokes with the flat file when I take them down, about every 4th sharpening. A chainsaw grinder with a 1/2" stone would be the most consistent way though. The tendency for kickback increases when you take the rakers down, the saw will definately be grabbier so BE CAREFUL!!

bandmiller2 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 14, 2009, 07:36:04 am »

This subject is worth bringing to the top.Raker hight depends on your saw along with ability.If you have a wimpy weekender saw go by the book.If you own a big honken powerfull saw especially one with a shorter bar you can take a bigger chip.Big thing have it safe for its use and your ability.Frank C.

iceman7668 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 20, 2009, 08:52:45 am »

Can this filing guide be used on stihl chain?

Reddog · « **Reply #19 on:** November 20, 2009, 09:23:09 am »

Quote from: iceman7668 on November 20, 2009, 08:52:45 am

Can this filing guide be used on stihl chain?

Yes

John Mc · « **Reply #20 on:** November 20, 2009, 08:00:36 pm »

Quote from: iceman7668 on November 20, 2009, 08:52:45 am

Can this filing guide be used on stihl chain?

Yes, as can this style, which I find easier to hold.

paulpieter · « **Reply #21 on:** November 21, 2009, 02:54:58 pm »

I strongly suggest that you adjust the rakers correctly regardless. Some will file them down when the bite weakens off to compensate for a dull or poorly filed cutter. Too much bite increases the risk of kickback.

Holshot14 · « **Reply #22 on:** December 19, 2009, 01:36:08 pm »

Quote from: beenthere on October 22, 2009, 10:07:28 am

That metal plate on that roller guide is what I use. Works well for me, if you don't have the safety chain.

If for hardwoods, use the side marked as such. Fit the small slot in behind the raker, and use a good fine flat file to file off what protrudes above the plate.

I find the roller guide the best way yet to hand file too.

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Hello, I am fairly new to the sharpening process, but I got a husky 3/8 in kit for my H47 chain. I have no idea how to use the thing with the rollers like you have in the picture. Is that device used to file the rakers or the sharpen the chain? thanks for any advise or directions on how to use this thing.

stonebroke · « **Reply #23 on:** December 19, 2009, 03:54:13 pm »

I got directions with mine. I will try and find them. its is neat though for someone(Me ) who had no clue what he was doing.

Stonebroke

Larry · « **Reply #24 on:** December 19, 2009, 04:44:46 pm »

Quote from: beenthere on October 22, 2009, 10:36:51 am

Here is a pic of the raker plate in position. Hope it helps.
(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Most times I just hit em a lick or two...maybe three.

But..if you notice in beenthere's pic the only difference between soft and hard is the slot is further back. Hard is 25 thousandths while soft is 30. So...say your cutting hardwood and you don't have nuff bite with 25 but too much with 30. File out the slot on the hardwood bout half way and it will give you 27 or so.

They used to make the plates without the roller, which in my opinion were a whole lot easier to use...and cheaper. I have maybe 3 or 4 with a couple that I butchered to suit me.

Holshot14 · « **Reply #25 on:** December 19, 2009, 06:41:29 pm »

Larry, thanks for your response, I did see your post prior to mine, I think I am ok on the raker depth guage, what I am unsure of is what the rollers are used for and how the "blue anodized" part of the device is utilized?

stonebroke · « **Reply #26 on:** December 19, 2009, 06:47:57 pm »

you lay that across the chain and use it to guide your round file to do the teeth.

Stonebroke

Holshot14 · « **Reply #27 on:** December 19, 2009, 09:55:11 pm »

Well that's what I thought, but I could not figure out how to put it on right for the rollers to sit low enough to line up with the teeth! I don't know what's going on?

footer · « **Reply #28 on:** December 19, 2009, 11:55:00 pm »

Ive tried the hand file....I ususally run stihl chain, and havent found a file that will hardly touch the rakers. I usually end up using a dremel or hand grinder on them.

beenthere · « **Reply #29 on:** December 20, 2009, 01:00:50 am »

Quote from: Holshot14 on December 19, 2009, 09:55:11 pm

Well that's what I thought, but I could not figure out how to put it on right for the rollers to sit low enough to line up with the teeth! I don't know what's going on?

Here is a pic of the guide using the rollers to file the teeth. The guide slips over the links between the teeth, and then just the angle of the file is manual, as the depth of the file in the tooth is fixed by the rollers. Be sure you have the right diam. file for the chain, and you should be good to go.

I've found a flat file for the rakers works, but it needs to be like a sharp (not old and worn out which I found doesn't cut) Nicholson mill bastard. The file teeth are pretty fine, and just a couple passes takes the raker down.

paulpieter · « **Reply #30 on:** December 20, 2009, 07:55:43 am »

Just thinking out loud here, but I have a problem understanding the application of the device in beenthere's picture.

The purpose for the “raker”is to act as a depth gauge for the saw tooth. The saw tooth is sloped back so that as you file the tooth back its profile gets lowered, ever so slightly but it does. So you file the raker only if the tooth profile is lowered. The way the raker file guide is applied in this picture, it does not account for the change in height of the tooth. The Oregon or Stihl file guides make more sense to me since they are laid across the tips of the teeth and thus adjust the raker accurately with respect to the teeth. I prefer the Oregon raker file guide myself since is straddles teeth on either side.

I have found that if you are cutting very clean softwood that you sharpen a lot less and the raker wears down as fast as, if not faster than the tooth and there is little raker adjustment to be made.

John Mc · « **Reply #31 on:** December 20, 2009, 09:38:08 am »

Actually, Woodlot_Manager, the depth gauge shown does account for the change in the height of the tooth. In fact, I've found it does a much better job of "customizing" the height of the raker for each individual tooth. On the depth gauge tool you pictured, the tool straddles a number of teeth (4 or 5?), so the height of your depth gauge is set based on the highest tooth (or the two highest teeth). This works OK if you keep all of your teeth identical. However, if you are hand filing (as I do), you tend to get variations in the teeth. Some get a little longer than others. Even if you count out the same number of strokes on each tooth, as some people recommend, you still get some variation. (I sometimes get variation intentionally, since I'll file a damaged tooth down further than one that is not damaged.)

The depth gauge pictured earlier, or this one (that I find easier to hold onto while filing) :

Work by resting on top of one tooth, and sloping down in front of that tooth, over the raker, and resting near the base of the preceding tooth. The raker height is set based solely on the height of the tooth it precedes, which IMO, is how it should be.

paulpieter · « **Reply #32 on:** December 20, 2009, 09:49:20 am »

Thanks for that. Since I posted, I did look up the Husqvarna website and just finished watching their sharpening video and just as you said it does sit on the tooth. I stand corrected.

Actually I have had one of those husky tools for some time and until now wasn't entirely sure how it worked. Live and learn.

Thanks John.

timberjack240 · « **Reply #33 on:** December 21, 2009, 12:03:25 am »

i used to use a file giude but mine slid over the tooth and the raker and clamepd over the file.. u couldnt set the angle it was jsut the depth i had a habit of filin to deep. go that startened up and now i jsut throw em up on a tree lean em a lil and file as for my rakers ... i take my time im not the best but if my chain is jsumpin i get a gauge and fond the hogh or low ones and go around em ... my suggestion to u tho is u lp chain its a double raker chain .. it runs smoohter than lg which is the single raker. if they get a lil uneven there not as quick to jump back at you . thats what i used till i got in practice then i switch to the lg chain .. jsut a suggestion

Holshot14 · « **Reply #34 on:** December 21, 2009, 11:09:28 am »

Quote from: beenthere on December 20, 2009, 01:00:50 am

Quote from: Holshot14 on December 19, 2009, 09:55:11 pm
Well that's what I thought, but I could not figure out how to put it on right for the rollers to sit low enough to line up with the teeth! I don't know what's going on?

Here is a pic of the guide using the rollers to file the teeth. The guide slips over the links between the teeth, and then just the angle of the file is manual, as the depth of the file in the tooth is fixed by the rollers. Be sure you have the right diam. file for the chain, and you should be good to go.

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

I've found a flat file for the rakers works, but it needs to be like a sharp (not old and worn out which I found doesn't cut) Nicholson mill bastard. The file teeth are pretty fine, and just a couple passes takes the raker down.

Thanks for the pic, I swear thats how I had it but it wouldnt work. I have H47 3/8 chain and that is the sharpening kit I got at lowes, Ill just have to use your pic as a reference to make sure I have it sitting the right way..

Rocky_J · « **Reply #35 on:** December 21, 2009, 11:15:07 am »

If you're buying chain at Lowe's then it has to be safety chain with some sort of additional hump in front of the raker to prevent the chain from taking too big of a bite. The safety feature may be interfering with the guide and not allowing it to sit down on the chain tie straps properly. You can thank Ralph Nader for that.

beenthere · « **Reply #36 on:** December 21, 2009, 11:52:47 am »

Rocky might just be on the right track. I'm not familiar with the H47 chain.

Holshot14 · « **Reply #37 on:** December 21, 2009, 02:12:51 pm »

The chain itself came with the saw which was purchased from a local husky dealer, the filing kit cam from lowes and stated on it that it does H30's series and H 40"s series in 3/8's. Just to be sure I will look to see if there is some sort of extra safety feature on the chain tho!!

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Author Topic: Filing rakers question (Read 4212 times)