Author Topic: Diameter vs. circumfrence (Read 4318 times)

Frickman · « **on:** October 21, 2009, 09:04:48 pm »

I have posted here on the forum that I purchase all of my timber from private landowners. That entails alot of running around looking at tracts. That's ok, it's part of the game. I actually enjoy it some, I get to walk around different woods.

I went and looked at some timber yesterday that was supposed to be 14" to 30" in diameter. Twenty acres of a larger tract. I drove an hour each way to see post timber 4" to 10" in diameter. I interviewed the landowner on the phone and he assured me that these trees were big, he measured alot of them. Here he measured circumfrence and called it diameter. And next to the ground around the root swell to boot. Don't people know the difference between the two?

Many of the textbooks I had in school, all the way back to grade school, had different information and tables in the back. Things like how to find the area of circle, how big is a cord of wood, how many miles around the earth's equator, things like that. Even some of the notebooks and folders I used had this stuff printed on the back covers. Didn't these people see this stuff? I don't know why they didn't learn it, it was everywhere when I was in school.

This is probably the fifth or sixth time this past summer and fall that this same thing has happened to me. It's always been on a tract that is an hour from home. I try to get a feel for what the landowner has before I make a long trip, but if they give me the wrong information I end up wasting my time.

chucker · « **Reply #1 on:** October 21, 2009, 09:22:33 pm »

heard that frickman!! those were real "peachy"-keen days way back then !! a time when time ment something other then just their time... some people just dont get it when a inch is just that and breast height differs only when a chest is less then 4' high... times have changed ! but our great teaching system these days has gone to the dogs......

tonich · « **Reply #2 on:** October 21, 2009, 09:34:00 pm »

Quote from: Frickman on October 21, 2009, 09:04:48 pm

Here he measured circumfrence and called it diameter. And next to the ground around the root swell to boot.

Thanks Lord, you do not have to pay the timber on the stump.

Phorester · « **Reply #3 on:** October 21, 2009, 09:40:20 pm »

It is frustrating, especially when a landowner insists he's right. Had a fellow call me about a 10 foot diameter white oak he had. Me; "are you sure it's 10 foot diameter? That's awful big." Him; "of course it is, I know my math and I measured it myself!" Me; "do you mean the distance around the outside of the trunk?" Him; "of course I do- the distance around the trunk - you know, the diameter!"

(And he thought I was the dumb one for asking the question

)

So now I don't ask them for the diameter or the circumfrence. I ask them if they mean the measurement around the outside of the trunk or the measurement through the middle.

chucker · « **Reply #4 on:** October 21, 2009, 09:43:33 pm »

$:-\$ "PLEASE STOP " your confuzzeling me !! i kant tink.......

beenthere · « **Reply #5 on:** October 21, 2009, 09:56:23 pm »

Quote from: Phorester on October 21, 2009, 09:40:20 pm

.........

So now I don't ask them for the diameter or the circumfrence. I ask them if they mean the measurement around the outside of the trunk or the measurement through the middle.

Then he says "Ya can't measure through the middle 'til after the tree is cut down" !!

Ya can't win.

ErikC · « **Reply #6 on:** October 21, 2009, 11:52:54 pm »

I am in my thirties and it was easy to find all these types of things when I was in school, as frickman mentioned.

Ironwood · « **Reply #7 on:** October 22, 2009, 12:14:45 am »

Even my urban tree trimmers get that one wrong. I now ask them to "hug the tree", if it's BIG then can you touch your hands together? Feel like I am talking to 1st graders sometime. I went to look at a 5' diameter cherry a few years ago, REAL mathmaticians these folks are

Ironwood

Sawyerfortyish · « **Reply #8 on:** October 22, 2009, 12:34:18 am »

Come and look at my tree it's just beautiful 50"dia and at least 140' tall and 80' to the first limb. Yea I hear this at least once a week. Like Phorester says I'll ask did you measure around the tree? I already know what the answer is. Yea at ground leval. Daiameter circumferance it's all the same isn't it.
So a 50" tree ends up being about 16"dbh and maybe 40' all the way up into the tiny brush at the very top.
I actually had a guy show up at the mill with about 15 cedar trees no more than 2"-3" dia tied to the roof of his car and wanted me to make 2x2 and 4x4s outta them. He told me on the phone they were 6-8" dia so I said yea I can do that bring them over and I'll cut them for you. People just don't know or can't picture the differance between diameter and circumferance.

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #9 on:** October 22, 2009, 04:28:03 am »

I always ask if they can reach around the trees and if their fingers meet. For me, that's an 18" dbh tree.

RSteiner · « **Reply #10 on:** October 22, 2009, 05:29:44 am »

I have had similar experience when custom sawing. The customer will have a pile of logs and he has measured the butt end diameter and figures the log will produce lumber at least that diameter. They rarely consider that the small end of the log dictates the size and volume of a log.

Or, some one wants some trees taken down and they will tell me they are at least 20" to 24" in diameter. Usually there is a trask barrel near by which usually measure some where around 22" in diameter. I will ask them are the trees as big around as this barrel? Most of the time the answer is well not quite that big.

Randy

Cedarman · « **Reply #11 on:** October 22, 2009, 06:53:43 am »

I have told this story before, but I still love it. In Oklahoma in the canyons (gulleys) there are some big cedars 24" and up.

A lady calls the logger (the one who told me this story) and says she has a patch of cedar she wants to get rid of. She says they are 2' or more in diameter. He asks are you taking aroudn the tree or across the tree. She says across not around. So he heads out for a look see. He gets to the place and visits with the lady and asks where the cedars are. Those over there behind the house. Sure enough there was this big field of cedar behind the house all about 10 to 12 feet tall and 2 to 3' in diameter if you count to the tips of the limbs.
She thought that is what he meant. Talk about having your balloon popped. Actual dbh was 2 to 3".

Jeff · « **Reply #12 on:** October 22, 2009, 07:17:41 am »

This reminded me of this old thread, where I had become so jaded from hearing and seeing so many over estimations of what a property owner had. I learned to never assume after this one.

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,4567.0.html

metalspinner · « **Reply #13 on:** October 22, 2009, 08:43:15 am »

On a much smaller scale than you guys, I talk with lots of foklks about their yard trees. I have come up with a way to help catagorize their trees that's easy for them to understand.

Me : "Is it fatter than a telephone pole?"

Them : "Yes."

Me: "Is it fatter than your streeing wheel?"

Them : "Yes."

Me : "I'll see you this afternoon."

okmulch · « **Reply #14 on:** October 22, 2009, 10:29:22 am »

Here in Oklahoma when I get a call from landowners telling me how many acres they have of cedar trees I have to be careful. Most landowners tell me how many acres they have total including fields hardwoods etc. I am only interested in how many acres are in cedar trees. I have to ask a lot of questions to make sure it is something I want to further investigate instead of driving all over creation. Most of the time landowners and myself have different ideas of what large number of cedar trees and sizes actually are.

red oaks lumber · « **Reply #15 on:** October 22, 2009, 08:45:26 pm »

and these people vote!
when customers bring logs to my mill for sawing ,there all 20" and "veneer'' i go outside to see them.small and looking like pulp wood i always ask them ,you bringing the logs on the next load? they stare at me like deer in the headlights.

Phorester · « **Reply #16 on:** October 23, 2009, 08:21:34 am »

From Ron: "I always ask if they can reach around the trees and if their fingers meet. For me, that's an 18" dbh tree."

Be careful. We had a fellow say this a few years ago about a 18" diameter black walnut he had, that his neighbor told him could be worth over $1,000. Un-huh..... Turns out that he meant when he put his hands around the tree, his fingers met, not his arms.

Frickman · « **Reply #17 on:** October 23, 2009, 08:25:38 am »

Thanks for the link Jeff, I had forgotten about that thread. On it Ron Scott said that you always have to go look at the timber. That's the view I have. It would be nice though to know what you are going to look at, that way I could schedule some of these wild goose chases for rainy days. The other day when I looked at this tract was one of the nicest days we've had in a while. I would have much rather been at the mill working than out driving around.

Buying timber like I do, from private landowners, is a numbers game. I actually purchase and harvest about ten percent of the tracts I look at. Thats's about the industry average around here. I don't especially like wild goose chases, but they're part of the game. I just can't believe how little common knowledge and common sense that some people posess.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #18 on:** October 23, 2009, 03:26:14 pm »

About the same as here Frick, only in recent years it was bidding wars like selling realestate. Stumpage being paid for mostly pulp wood got close to $1500/acre on 22-28 cord/acre ground. Lot's of failed loggers when reality set in.

Ron Scott · « **Reply #19 on:** October 23, 2009, 03:49:22 pm »

It's even worse when they don't know the location or legal description of their property so you can find it.

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Author Topic: Diameter vs. circumfrence (Read 4318 times)