Author Topic: Saw mill restoration (Read 11389 times)

Carpenter · « **Reply #20 on:** October 21, 2009, 12:57:48 pm »

Here are some progress pictures.
The carraige is built of 6x6's and bridge planks. The original was also built of 6x6's and it made the measurements work out well.

I used the straightest lumber I could find and built the carraige square and set the wheels to a snapped line to take out any variable of imperfections in the wood. The grooved wheels are mortised and when I get the chance I will mortise the flat wheels.

Does any body have a good suggestion to rebuild the two friction drive wheels? The wheel that turns the cable drum rocks back and forth to engage one or the other of these friction wheels, for forward or reverse.

Carpenter · « **Reply #21 on:** October 21, 2009, 01:39:30 pm »

I think the arbor bearings will be good. They have thick wooden shims in them between the bearing housings, which can be removed to tighten them up, and plenty of babbit. I have not taken them apart or cleaned and oiled them yet. Right now the bolts on them are loose and of course with the husk beams being cracked nothing is aligned so it's too early to tell if they will be good with no endplay yet.
As for a tractor I will probably use the 630 although if more power is needed I could use the 730 diesel. It would be neat though to hook it up to the old (1935 I think) John Deere A.

sparky · « **Reply #22 on:** October 21, 2009, 02:09:07 pm »

When belting a 2-cylinder John Deere to a sawmill, you will want to use as long a flat belt as possible. The power from a "johnny popper" comes with a lot of pulsing and will cause the arbor to shake. A long belt adds some mass to the system and helps to reduce the vibrations that you will be noticing.

Sparky

beenthere · « **Reply #23 on:** October 21, 2009, 02:57:55 pm »

Good sawmill friend of mine (passed on a few years back) said the 2-cyl deere would cause the belt to flop when lugging down on the sawmill. He didn't like them for that.

He ran a portable mill in the late 40's and 50's, and said he built an all-hydraulic portable circular sawmill. Lost it off a leaky barge in the Mississippi river, and had to send a diver to recover it (even the wrenches) by Corp of Engineers rules. Never had any pics of his mill, but to hear the old neighbor farmers around me tell about it, his was a fast, productive mill.

I remember some belt flop on our 2-cyl Model A when hooked to a silo blower. Never flopped off, but maybe a circular saw would pulse some more when in a log. Hope you get a chance to try the Model A and report how it works.

Carp - Your restoration is coming along well, and really appreciate you taking the time to post good pics.

sparky · « **Reply #24 on:** October 21, 2009, 11:27:40 pm »

I worked on a friend's mill that was powered with an R John Deere. It had plenty of power and he used a long belt. I placed my hand on the husk and it was shaking unbelievably. I was amazed that the lumber coming off the mill was as uniform as it turned out to be.

Sparky

Carpenter · « **Reply #25 on:** October 22, 2009, 01:38:03 am »

I have no idea what to expect from a flat belt driven saw mill yet. I have no experience with flat belt driven equipment at all. I have seen a flat belt driven pancake style shingle mill though, and it ran very smooth. My dad remembers some of the flat belt driven equipment being run but I am too young. I am not saying that I am dead set on this mill being flat belt driven, I am more concerned with quality lumber being produced than I am with historic recreation. But since the mill is already set up to run off a flat belt, and I have access to the tecnology to make a flat belt system possible, I would like to give it an honest try before converting to a PTO drive system. Thanks for the input guys, I can't wait to see what this mill does. I'll keep you posted.

bandmiller2 · « **Reply #26 on:** October 22, 2009, 07:29:03 am »

Carpenter,I rebuilt the friction wheel on my mill.I used rubberized cotton flat belt,cut pieces ,sandwiched them togather and turned on a lathe ,sharp tool at high speed.You could probibly use leather or I've heard masonite discs put togather and turned works.Frank C.

Dakota · « **Reply #27 on:** October 22, 2009, 08:51:10 am »

Carpenter,
I bought a few semi-truck mud flaps and used a circle cutter on my drill press to produce what we needed. Been working great for years now.

Dakota

bandmiller2 · « **Reply #28 on:** October 23, 2009, 07:55:09 am »

Carpy, belt the old deere to your mill you always get some vibration with flat belts load on and load off.Thats what the big flywheel is for keep the rpm's up,pusing was always the boogie man promoted by the red fellas,sounds good in theory but practice tells outerwise.Frank C.

jdunmyer · « **Reply #29 on:** November 01, 2009, 06:14:43 pm »

FWIW: I first ran my mill with a J-D 'R' Diesel, not that long a belt, either. Didn't know I should worry about "pulsations", so didn't notice anything wrong.

Changed to a PTO drive once I got the building erected, as I couldn't get the tractor lined up anymore, besides its being in the way. That worked OK, but was a PITA to operate and I couldn't get the engine warm, even with the shutters closed. (thermosyphon cooling system) Ended up with the Case engine that I have now, and it works fine.

More power is always good; the 'R' wasn't any extra.

I also ran a friend's half-scale mill with a J-D 'H' for power. I'd get that thing snorting, and again, didn't notice any pulsations. We did have to drive a stake in the ground behind it and use a come-a-long to get the belt tight enough that it didn't slip. In spite of the belt dressing that we used like it was free.

D._Frederick · « **Reply #30 on:** November 05, 2009, 02:47:23 pm »

Carpenter.
Our American No.2 had a cast drive pulley like you show in the picture and it didn't have any crown cast into it, you will need an idle pulley in front of it to steer the belt or it will run about half off the arbor pulley. The diameter of the pulley is too small to get good power transfer. With my Case LAE we had about a 10-12 inch diameter pulley with a 30 foot long belt. Regardless how tight the belt was, it never loaded the engine due to slippage.
If you really want to saw, you will need to use V-belts or a larger arbor pulley for use with a flat belt.

Carpenter · « **Reply #31 on:** November 10, 2009, 11:18:15 pm »

I finally got the carraige on the track this morning and it rolls!!!

I think it rolls very well I might add. I have not added up the hours that have gone into this mill to get it to this point but it really has been a lot of work. But, now I see a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe I can be sawing before Christmas?
Here are a few more progress pictures.

I ended up using 2x8s to make the beams for the track. There are three of them per side with a 2x6 on top, all glued and screwed together. The foundation is 12" wide blocks, The load side is on 6' centers and the off load side is on 8' centers. Originally I laid it out at 4' centers but with the 12" blocks it didn't leave much room in between for sawdust removal and such. Thanks for the usefull advice on that.

bandmiller2 · « **Reply #32 on:** November 12, 2009, 07:24:08 am »

Good work Carpy, you don't want to figure the hours you put into a mill it will scare you.I have seen several methods to add crown to a flat pulley,one is to rivet a strip of leather to the center anouther is a hump in the center using the old friction tape,it doesn't take much to center the belt.Of course you must align the tractor almost perfect thats why most use a dedicated tractor to avoid realigning.Being a left hand mill you could run from the tractor PTO and eliminate belts all togather.Blade must be tensioned for 540 rpm and you need ether a shear pin or slip clutch in the shaft.PTO shaft is good because it reduces the side tension on the arbor caused by the belts.Frank C.

Carpenter · « **Reply #33 on:** November 13, 2009, 11:49:52 pm »

All good comments and concerns. Actually this arbor pulley has a crown cast into it. And it measures 24" diameter, If there is any slipage I think it would be on the tractor end of the belt. I plan to add a tension pulley if needed. I would put a twist in the belt but I don't see that as a possibility without the tractor being in the way. I have been away for a few days but tomorrow I will start on the husk.

Don_Papenburg · « **Reply #34 on:** November 16, 2009, 10:33:32 pm »

I have been around belt driven equipment all my life . Never ran a job without a twisted belt . I asked my dad why he did not run the belt straight . He said that the twist kept the belt on the pully and eliminated the slapping that made the belt come off and put undue stress on bearings.

beenthere · « **Reply #35 on:** November 16, 2009, 11:58:23 pm »

Doesn't the twisted belt just change the direction of rotation?
I recall that was the reason we twisted it.

york · « **Reply #36 on:** November 17, 2009, 06:28:02 am »

Carp,

you are doing one heck of a job,setting up your mill-much better setup,than i ever had...yes,putting twist in flat belt,will change direction...

Bert

Magicman · « **Reply #37 on:** November 17, 2009, 07:22:18 am »

Quote from: Don_Papenburg on November 16, 2009, 10:33:32 pm

He said that the twist kept the belt on the pully and eliminated the slapping that made the belt come off and put undue stress on bearings.

If it was done to prevent slapping he could have made a full twist.

Carpenter · « **Reply #38 on:** November 17, 2009, 11:03:09 pm »

If it was done to prevent slapping he could have made a full twist.

I didn't even think of that as a possibility. I have heard to put a twist in the belt to prevent slapping but in this case it would either put the tractor in the way or run the wrong direction. I'll give the full twist a try. I had it pictured in my mind that it was either a half twist or no twist. Thanks.
It will still be cold before I get to mill some lumber. I planed to use some oak rail road ties that I have to set the husk on in place of the 4x12s that it is on now. It seemed like a good idea at the time. But because of the measurements of the ties 7x9 they just didn't work out mathematically. I probably spent 1/2 a day coming up with plans ABC and D trying to make those ties work, And by the time I decided that I really need the right size of lumber to make everything work, every place to get the lumber was closed for the weekend. Oh, well, I do have a supply for some duglas fir timbers the size I need (its just 60 miles away). Of course the local lumber yard does not carry anything 4x12. And because of the advice that I have gotten on this forum I would rather use solid beams for the husk rather than built up beams. It's sort of ironic that I need the sawmill running to get the sawmill running.

bandmiller2 · « **Reply #39 on:** November 18, 2009, 06:47:00 am »

Well this old guy learned something today, never heard of a full twist on a flatbelt.There must be friction losses,heat and wear.Anyone that does it please comment.I use a half twist whenever I can for the above reasons. Carpy how are you planning to fasten the husk down, or are you tieing it to the way timbers, will work ether way, a flat belt will put considerable side strain on the husk.Your right its tricky to figure the hight of the husk and arbor to the carriage knees,thats why shims are a way of life around a mill. It would not hurt to have a solid adjustable link between the tractor and the husk to take some of the strain off the husk and aid adjustment.Frank C.

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Author Topic: Saw mill restoration (Read 11389 times)