Saw mill restoration

[Carpenter]

Hi, to all
I have some questions about restoring an old sawmill, and I have tried to post pictures several times and have not been successfull.  I did get them to post on my gallery so I hope you can view them there, if not I'll try to post them again.  Through a strange serious of events I have become a sawmill owner.  It's a long story.  If you can see the pictures, it is an old flat belt driven sawmill that needs re-stocked.  The blade is not pictured but it is a 48" blade and is in like new condition as it has been sheded while the rest of the mill has been exposed to the elements.  The cast iron has held up well although a few replacement parts will be needed and all of the wood replaced.  I haven't found any identifying markings on the mill and would appreciate any information as to what make and model it may be.  Also if anyone has any advice on set up or general mill operation.  Thanks,  I know this post is a little vague but it is late and I have spent the last several hours trying to get the pictures of the mill posted so, if there is any response I will post more information and hopefully progress reports on the restoration in the future.  Thanks, Carpenter.

[Tom]

You are 9/10's there.

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[beenthere]

Carpenter
Good on the pics. And welcome to the Forum.

Like Tom says, you are nearly "right there" , or here. 

That project looks very interesting, and you should find some good discussion with getting it back together again.

[Ron Wenrich]

That might be an Ireland mill.  I recognize the handles on the dog, and they look like an old Ireland that I once ran.  I don't see any track or wheels in the pile of parts.  Are you sure you got all the iron?

[bandmiller2]

Carpy,this is how it starts,very soon you will discover anouther mill in better shape with power buy it then mayby even a third.Really go over the mill site looks like you may be missing the loose collar and a headblock.Hope you can talk to the old fella that ran it if he kept the blade in a shed he will have outher tools ,bits and shanks there too.Save all the wood for measurements.It will be a long but satisfying project,do one piece at a time if you look at the whole thing you will get discouraged and not get anywhere.Old mills are almost the same most parts can be mixed and matched.Don't be afrade to ask for help wish you were closer.Frank C.

[apm]

Hi Carpenter,

Welcome to the dark side! Old circle saws become a way of life soon enough. You probably already figured it out but that looks like it's a left hand mill. The carriage setworks are next to the first headblock. There doesn't appear to be a board splitter on the old husk. You'll need that for sure. That vintage usually had a spreader wheel type splitter. You can make a knife edge type if you don't find the old one. Are there more pictures?

Greg

[Carpenter]

Thanks for the response,  Most of the wheels fell off when we unloaded it.  I have them in the house to clean them.  They clean up pretty well and I have gotten them to run smoothly, so I think the babbit is in useable shape.  One thing that I found unusual is that on the wheels there was only babbit on the top side of the bearing which of course is the pressure side.  The bottom of the cast bearing housings had a wood plug roughly shaped like the babbit should have been.  Of course there is no pressure on this half of the bearing but I think I will replace it with lead.  We built the new carraige last weekend and mortised 4 of the 8 wheels.  This weekend weather permitting I want to get the block pier foundation laid.  Then when the weather turns cold I can still do the woodwork.  As far as getting all of the parts, I think all that is missing are a few bearings and one of the pulleys for the return feed mechanism.  but the guy we bought the mill from dug through the shed that had the blade stored in it and found a whold box of parts that goes with the mill.  I haven't seen what else we got yet.  But I think everything is fixeable.  By the way one of my friends had some interest in the mill as well so we went in halves on it, which is great because I have some help restoring it and some more motivation to get it running.  He has been bringing in buisiness as well so when we get it running, we may be buisy.

I hope these photo's upload this time.





 



 

[Carpenter]

Yes, APM,
I finally did figure out that it is a left handed mill.  And yes it does come with a circle type board splitter.  It was not attatched and is in my shop. 

[KyTreeFarmer]

Congratulations on your "find". I love restoration projects like that. Lots of work but satisfying. Keep us posted on your progress with pics and story. Welcome to the forum, you will find lots of good info here!
Nice job on the pics too!!

KTF

[Carpenter]

I will be laying the block foundation for the mill tomorrow.  It will set on the concrete slab in the picture.  We have a few days with forcasted good weather.  Would 4' OC be good for the piers or could I go with 6 or 8'?  I really have no idea what kind of weight will be on this thing so any calculations I do will really be a WAG.  For the track I plan to use  three pressure treated 2x12's bolted together.  How are other stationary mills set on a foundation?  Also, I read somewhere in the archives of the forum that the husk is not supposed to be attached to the track.  Is this true or did I misread the information?  What would be the advantage of the husk on a seperate foundation?  If the husk is not attached to the track then how is it possible to make one of these mills portable?

[bandmiller2]

Carpenter,4' o/c is good around the husk,if its not a commercial mill you can stretch the piers to 5' or 6' at the ends.Be sure to cross brace where you load and turn the logs.The reason it was stated not to attach the husk to the ways was to prevent the carriage movement from affecting the saw,it can be done ether way.The older mills ,semi portable, were set up on common timbers under the husk and ways.My first circular mill was portable made with steel roof trusses, when giging back it would cause the headsaw to rattle in the guides the minute you got in the cut, stable and true.Your idea of using laminated 2x12 is a good one even 1/4 plywood strips between them would add greatly to their stregnth and stability,Liquid nails mastic also.Every mill deserves a roof,if not I would do something so moisture does not get between the 2x12's.Have you found the loose collar and nut?? Frank C.

[Ron Wenrich]

Mills like yours are rarely made portable.  The first mill I ran was rewooded before we put it in.  The sections of track were 8'.  We put piers where there were joints in the sections.  You could also put one in the middle for additional support.  But, on the log loading end, you definitely want more support.  You need at least a support in the middle of each section of track.  You have a lot more banging going on on the loading end as compared to the unloading end.

For the wood job, we used 4x6 under the tracks.  2x12s bolted together is a little bit of overkill.  You will also have to tie the track together.  You shouldn't just lay down boards, then put the track on top.  Use threaded rod and a 4x4 or 4x6 to tie the track together.  Every 4'-6' works fine.  If you do your track in sections, this will work out fairly well.  Most original tracks were tied together about 1-1½' from the ends.  

The husk is a different animal.  Take the measurements off the original wood, and go with that.  Make sure everything is tied together, like the original.  You don't really need the pressure treated stuff.  But, you should go with some nice kiln dried, if you can get it.  We used Doug fir on ours.

For the foundation, we put 4x6s to tie our track onto.  We put them directly onto the piers, and they spanned across the track section.  We ran bolts up from the concrete blocks.  It ties the track together, and it allows for you to put shims in to make everything level.

For the husk, we ran a real heavy piece, because that was what was laying around.  Ours was a 10x12, but that's overkill.  You should have at least a 6x8, and the length has to run from the husk end to the other side of the track.  You probably will need something about 10' long.  

When you tie your track down to the 6x8 at the husk, you'll cut a groove in it and put wedges in so it won't move.  You tie it together, but you don't necessarily fasten it.  You don't want any track movement at the husk.  

When you lay your mill foundation, you don't want to go with the track.  You'll have a really hard time cleaning it out.  You also need to get the mill up high enough to handle sawdust.  

If it were me (and its not), I would rewood the mill before I laid the foundation.  Its easier to do that way.

[Slingshot]

  The pictures of your mill looks similar to a mill for sale in Indiana that I looked at yesterday. The guy said he thought
he had a Belsaw but really wasn't sure. Turns out he wasn't sure. I went to check out what he had just to see it and made some pictures. It is set up and he said it is a working mill. Powered by a Dodge slant six engine (with a beer keg for a gas tank) Said he hadn't used it in 2 years but started it and ran it this past week.
Said it did pretty good in soft wood but not too good in hard wood.  Anyway, here are the pictures I made.
I has a 52 inch blade.

 



















_____________________
Charles

[bandmiller2]

Slingshot thats no Belsaw,I have seen that type before but don't know the make.That type of mill is not [wasen't]popular up here in the northeast,most had a set beam to mount the headblocks on.Frank C.

[bandmiller2]

Carpenter,if your going to rebabit your wheel axles I would not use soft lead.A passible babit can be made that will take some pounding.Melt some wheel weights and add 50/50 solder,the more tin the better.The antimony in the wheel weights will alow you to drill or ream it [free cutting]and it will stand up better.Or,even better,use pillow block bearings,and solve endplay problems too.Frank C.

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

And Welcome to the Forum Carpenter  looks like you have a good project on the go there and you have come to the rite place Mate 

Ron and Frank have coverd it well id go solid timber for the Husk and Ways and building them first will let you work out your measurements for working hight, size&placement of sill timbers ect with the babbit i go with frank on this one swap them now to pillow blocks and save yourself some headakes    your a young bloke  ;)so i dare say you will have this mill for awhile after you get her going or if your anything like Me    You will Keep All your mills Mate 

Are you going to power the mill of the pto of the JD in the pics for a start ?? you would have plenty of power and it would be a dead easy settup as all you would need is a Pto clutch to mount onto the end of the mandrel and a pto shaft and you would be sawing also did you find the loose collar and nut if not take the mandrel to an engineer and have them made and the fast collar refaced done aswell  while your working on the carriage Mate

Good luck and keep us posted We like pics 


Regards Chris

[Carpenter]

Hey, Slingshot.
The headblocks on that mill look a lot like mine.  And I still haven't determined what my mill is.  It was suggested that it might be an Ireland mill.  I did some research on Ireland mills.  There is a little information on them on the internet.  I found pictures of both a #6 and a #8.  They were both similar to my mill but, as of now I think my mill is an Ireland but I don't know the model number.  I would like to get another headblock, although most of the mills in my area run with only 2 headblocks.  If you find more information please let me know.  That mill does look very similar to mine.

[Chico]

You need to get some Hi=Nickel babbit for the wheels it'll last anything else you'll be replacing them every week you can do like Frank says and mix nickel and lead but it's prob easier to just buy it
Chico

[Carpenter]

Thanks for all of the usefull feedback.
I plan to stick with the babbit bearings at least for now.  I want to see how well the mill runs in a restored original condition before pillow block bearings.  Our old John Deere tractors ran with babbit bearings for 70 + years.  I think this mill is from the same era as the tractors that I grew up running.  The tractor in the picture is relatively new, as it was purchased in 1999 and was the first cab tractor on the place.  It will not be the power source for my mill as it is a daily use feed tractor during the winter and a swathing tractor during the summer, and it belongs to my uncle.  For a power source, the mill was designed to be flat belt driven and since I have access to several hand clutch John Deere's I would like to give the flat belt system a try, of course a PTO conversion is possible. 
Yes, the collar and nut were in a box that was stored in the shed with the blade, I have not seen them yet but they have been found along with a tooth wrench and extra teeth and some other stuff. 
This weekend I did some carefull calculations and measurements and made the foundation for both the track and the husk.  And you all are right of course, it would have been easier to restock the thing first but it has already snowed here and I had some decent weather for the next few days so I wanted to get the cement work done before it starts freezing consistently.  It appears that winter is coming early this year.  I will post pictures but I was too buisy this weekend to take any, even had the camera with me and with no breaks I finished right at dark. I left some room for adjustment as well just incase my calculations are off.  Worse case senerio I can nock out a pier and re-do it next spring.

[bandmiller2]

Carpenter,as long as that carriage runs level and smooth by the saw with no side play you should be golden.Which 2 cyl. Deere are you planning to use,I would say "A" or up.I always wanted to try my JD70 diesel on the mill but mines a rt hand mill and flatbelt would be in the way.As Ron said have the mill high enough to make sawdust removal easier to hook up,figure a big wheel barrel full of dust per log.A sawdust conveyer works well and uses little power.Are the arbor bearings in good shape,with no endplay, this is important.Keep us posted. Frank C.