Author Topic: air drying black locust (Read 2106 times)

alanh · « **on:** November 23, 2009, 04:24:46 pm »

I have approximately 60 logs that I cut in August getting milled the first week of December, mostly 5/4 for a large deck rebuild, I`ll be needing some 2x8`s for a pier also but i`m mostly concerned with the deck boards. I plan on stickering it and covering outsde with the intention of building with it come spring. I`ve been told black locust is stable enough for that to be enough drying time. Opinions? Also if anyone has some advice or precautions I`m all ears, it`s a lot of lumber to waste if something`s done wrong!
Thanks, Alan

Ironwood · « **Reply #1 on:** November 23, 2009, 08:00:28 pm »

Pre-drill, use stainless as the boards would outlast the steel fastener otherwise. work when ready. For deck boards they will be moist anyhow. For a better look comr from below. That's what I'd do if I coudl get access.

Ironwood

campy · « **Reply #2 on:** December 01, 2009, 10:55:06 pm »

If you can tolerate cracks opening up between the boards on your deck then put them on wet.

Compensate for the shrinkage by placing them closer together.

Where does one find that much black locust?

Ironwood · « **Reply #3 on:** December 02, 2009, 08:33:34 am »

I could get you 60 logs, but the yield would likely be from what would look like 30. That's due to all the voids and crooks.

Ironwood

alanh · « **Reply #4 on:** December 03, 2009, 05:16:13 pm »

I`ve got time to let them dry, we`re starting milling monday and I`m not much for winter building so stickering them for a while is actually convenient. I`ve only got 7 acres but it is covered with it. I`ve seen pics from the late 1800`s and the area was being farmed, now its all hardwoods.I cut down 24 trees to get the 70 logs. I still have twice that many but the quality goes down. I`m aware the yield can be low, we will try to separate the good from bad. I know the bd ft I need for a couple projects. The good part is there isn`t much that I can`t find a use for. 1) deck boards, 2) 8/4 beams for a pier project, 3) trailer decking, and when all else fails, 4) awesome firewood. I do have another processing question, is it better, surface check wise, to plane the deck boards before or after drying

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #5 on:** December 05, 2009, 05:53:40 pm »

Quote from: alanh on December 03, 2009, 05:16:13 pm

I do have another processing question, is it better, surface check wise, to plane the deck boards before or after drying

I would think afterward because they aren't going to dry evenly no matter how you dry them. Planing is always the last step in processing, before molding and sanding of course. But they would be secondary processing I guess.

alanh · « **Reply #6 on:** December 05, 2009, 07:17:33 pm »

Thanks, That`s what I figured, but being a newbie to this I figured I should ask.

ljmathias · « **Reply #7 on:** December 05, 2009, 08:51:59 pm »

Yeah, that's the conventional wisdom, to plane just before final molding, but I'll tell you something about long-term air-dried pecan and white oak (the pecan cut 4/4 just after Katrina and allowed to dry standing up in my smaller barn): "Harder then nails" doesn't even come close! I just this afternoon put a 6' section of heart wood white oak through my small planar about a dozen times each side; wow, that stuff is incredible! Lowered the cutting head about a third the distance I usually use with green hardwood, and even then it was straining. And the pecan: too wide for my 12" planar so I used a belt sander and like to have taken my arms off at the shoulder! Hard work, but boy was it worth it: some of the most beautiful wood I've had the pleasure of working with so far, but then, hey! I'm just a sapling in the forest of life (compared to some here that put their advancing years right on the table, betting someone will appreciate them: and we surely do!) and maybe I'll find some even prettier wood as the years add up from here on out... The short of is this: I'm thinking of planing more of my fresh-cut wood right off the mill; maybe not green, but still softer and easier to work than old and hard-dried.

Lj

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #8 on:** December 06, 2009, 07:14:39 am »

I get the same thing happen with white ash in those small planers. Hard as nails and have to take very light passes, nowhere near a third of a turn on the wheel, more like 1/6 of a turn. Anymore and it would throw a fuse. I just planed some and the heart seems even harder than the outside layers. I'm talking a 12" wide board, not a 5" wide though. If you want the defects of drying to show up then plane it green. They tell me, and we are talking softwood here, that the planer knives stay sharp longer on dried lumber out of the kiln. I prefer dry on the lathe I know, but some turn green and seal to finish off later when dried.

alanh · « **Reply #9 on:** December 06, 2009, 07:44:40 am »

That`s a good point, this stuff does dry to be very hard, you wouldn`t think of driving a nail into it. I have a Dewalt planer, (you know, the biggest cheap one you can get at Home Depot) that I can assume wouldn`t be up to the task of efficiently getting that much wood done. I have access to a large commmercial 220v planer that I`m guessing I should plan to borrow when the time comes to plane them. I was hoping to avoid that because I`ll need to bring in a machine w/forks to pick it up and get it off the truck but for this big of a job it will probably be worth it.

Stan snider · « **Reply #10 on:** December 06, 2009, 03:15:52 pm »

Someone down here in the south needs to send SD some of our fine southern pecan just to broaden his horizons. I really appreciate his sharing of technical knowledge with us. I also envy anyone that has a resident moose!! What are the restrictions on export/ import?

Den Socling · « **Reply #11 on:** December 07, 2009, 12:31:40 pm »

I recently dried some Lapacho from South America. I ran a piece through me little planer and found that the wood sparkled from microscopic pieces of my planer blades. That's pretty hard.

KGNC · « **Reply #12 on:** December 07, 2009, 02:10:55 pm »

My FIL had some T&G black locust cut to use for a deck. When it dried it looked like a pile of snakes. 50% wasn't usable, the part they put down wet did fine. Like everyone said, you can't nail it without drilling when dry.

solidwoods · « **Reply #13 on:** December 07, 2009, 05:24:06 pm »

Mill it and put it directly in a kiln for the least degrade.
Black Locust is very hard to air dry without degrade.

If you must air dry it:
Shed dry it, no sunlight, 1.5" tall sticks, very little air (but not against a wall).
Restack (yes restack it in 6 weeks), put what was on top on the bottom and what was on the outside on the inside of the stack.

Plane it after its dry. and round the edges for no edge peeler splinters

It will be dry for deck use in 90 days.

You will have to re-rip it to a straight edge and to width.

It will bend on spike knots.

I like the biscuit slot deck fastening system so that no nails are shown on the top of the deck but I don't think I'd try that with locust.

I'd put outdoor deck preservative on both sides to slow moisture loss on dry or sunny days (garden sprayer works good), I like McCluskey's from Wall mart $16gl and does 400sf.

If you were near:
I'd offer $1.00bf for FAS green Black Locust.
You purchase treated pine, no labor/risk of degrade and proffit $.30bf
jim

WDH · « **Reply #14 on:** December 07, 2009, 05:57:01 pm »

Quote from: ljmathias on December 05, 2009, 08:51:59 pm

Yeah, that's the conventional wisdom, to plane just before final molding, but I'll tell you something about long-term air-dried pecan and white oak (the pecan cut 4/4 just after Katrina and allowed to dry standing up in my smaller barn): "Harder then nails" doesn't even come close!

Pecan is the most difficult domestic wood that I have worked with. It is harder than Hades is hot

. That is one reason that we grow the trees for nuts and not lumber. It is also prone to cupping. Beautiful but difficult, very difficult unless you get excited about constantly sharpening planer blades

. If you love to sharpen planer blades, then it is the perfect wood for you

.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #15 on:** December 09, 2009, 09:32:59 am »

White ash is different that red oak, as the early wood pores are closed up by tylosis. The lumber I was planing has about 25-28 rings to the inch off a 20 inch tree, and as old growth as you'll ever find an ash grow in this day in age, so over 250 years old. Came from a site that chances were it was never logged until I had opportunity to get this tree. I know in open grain woods that fast grown is denser. But, when you factor the closed pores maybe it's a bit more dense than you think. I've shown ya a piece of the end grain from this tree before. On second growth sites I've seen white ash grow as fast as aspen. Not quite the diameter though, probably as much as 4" smaller than a 10" aspen. It's rated as a 2 for white ash hardness, where hickory is rated 1. But, how close are the actual numbers if averages are rejected and comparing two similarly grown specimens?

Ironwood · « **Reply #16 on:** December 11, 2009, 08:08:40 am »

I had a 50+ year old hickory in the understory of a big oak. 3" diameter.

Ironwood

climbncut · « **Reply #17 on:** January 05, 2010, 10:32:22 pm »

Did you have to cut the hickory to determine the age?

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #18 on:** January 06, 2010, 05:48:44 am »

Something like a fir, 1" in diameter wouldn't be practical to use an increment borer. I've seen many of them over 50 years old. Besides, there are thousands of them per acre. I assume it was the same for the hickory.

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