Author Topic: Help automating my bandmill sawhead (Read 5473 times)

Hbarker · « **on:** September 09, 2009, 07:25:02 pm »

Hello I have this bright idea of trying to automate my bandsaw mill , just the haed assembly.
With a gutted old electric wheelchair and a large satellite moving arm,
The wheel chair motors are 24v synced twin motors. we are mounting them on the outer rail to move the head forward and reverse,
And using the satellite arm to move the head up and down..
My question is have any of you guys tried this with those type motors and what suggestions you may have???
i have weather boxes for the batteries , and all will mount so that the head is still chargable and portable. and the bed is still just the bed..
any suggestions at this point are welcome..
will try and post pictures of the project.

pineywoods · « **Reply #1 on:** September 09, 2009, 08:42:53 pm »

Wheel chair motors are good. 24 volt dc but run fine on 12 volts. The wheel chair control box may or may not work on 12 volts. How do you propose to couple the motors to a drive mechanism? I doubt that powering the head support wheels would work. Chain drive like woodmizer would be easy and positive. The dish position box should work fine to raise and lower the head. It's just a big ole jackscrew with a gearbox and drive motor. Some were 24 volt dc, others were 110 volt ac, that would be a problem. Take pics, keep us updated, sounds like an interesting project...

Magicman · « **Reply #2 on:** September 09, 2009, 09:19:10 pm »

Horse power? Are you sure that you have enough to carry the load?

kelLOGg · « **Reply #3 on:** September 09, 2009, 09:21:59 pm »

Several people on the FF have done similar to what you describe. My photo gallery shows a 24vdc wheelchair motor that drives the head and a 12 vdc motor for the up/down. Others have probably done done it, too and probably better.
Bob

Hbarker · « **Reply #4 on:** September 09, 2009, 10:54:19 pm »

Quote from: Magicman on September 09, 2009, 09:19:10 pm

Horse power? Are you sure that you have enough to carry the load?

Not sure what HP ,, but they are designed to carry 300 lbs + the wheel chair ? 80lbs maybe.and I like that speed control most of all ,, should come in real handy.

Quote from: pineywoods on September 09, 2009, 08:42:53 pm

Wheel chair motors are good. 24 volt dc but run fine on 12 volts. The wheel chair control box may or may not work on 12 volts. How do you propose to couple the motors to a drive mechanism? I doubt that powering the head support wheels would work. Chain drive like woodmizer would be easy and positive. The dish position box should work fine to raise and lower the head. It's just a big ole jackscrew with a gearbox and drive motor. Some were 24 volt dc, others were 110 volt ac, that would be a problem. Take pics, keep us updated, sounds like an interesting project...

Now that one took some thought ,, then my buddy recomended using both motors since they are a pair.. and mount them to the sawcarraige legs on the outside of the sawmill. Leave the tires and they will press in and ride back and forth on the outside of the frame rail..
( least thats the plan ) also ,., those controls are made not to go very fast backing up.. so they will be mounted where reverse will actually be forward,, and forward ( a little faster in that same speed setting ) would be reverse ..

I like your rise and lower mechanism .. do you have any more pics from another angle? I can really see the screw jack part??

thanks for all the replies.. I will for sure take pics and post when I get to that point,,

I also plan on jacking the joystick control and wireing for foward, backward,
and left right be up and down,..
maybe a kill switch on the up/down while in forward motion..

I hope all was wrong with the chair was dead batteries......

Hbarker · « **Reply #5 on:** September 09, 2009, 11:07:53 pm »

one more question >>
After reaching the end of my cut i usually idle back down as I -for now manually- raise the head,, and return it to the and ,, to adjust for the next cut.. then rev up and make another slice,.
Seems this way I way only at full throttle while actually cutting..
Should I make a control for this ?? or leave it wide open and give it hell..

schmism · « **Reply #6 on:** September 10, 2009, 01:08:07 am »

throttle is a low force item and could be easly riged with an off the shelf RC servo. Local craigslist can hook you up with an older inexpensive RC car complete with servos, battery tx,rx

mburrow · « **Reply #7 on:** September 10, 2009, 09:42:52 am »

all the satellite dish motors I have seen are 36 volt dc,
I did try one with 12 volt it worked but was to slow for my needs on my mill

solidwoods · « **Reply #8 on:** September 10, 2009, 09:47:29 am »

I used a gearmotor from Grainger $125ish with a rehostadt.
jim

pineywoods · « **Reply #9 on:** September 10, 2009, 02:26:54 pm »

Hbarker, that wheel chair joystick probably don't work like you are thinking. Using left-right on joystick for up-down on head would be nice, but think about it. Left-right on the chair just makes one motor run backwards and the other forwards. The joystick is actually 2 controls in one package, so it could be done. Just use the drive for one motor to go forward-backwards and the other for up-down. I'm somewhat familiar with these gadgets, my wife is pretty much confined to one, plus I have built a couple. If the drive electronics are shot, I can point you to a place to get new(non wheelchair) controllers fairly cheap...

Hbarker · « **Reply #10 on:** September 10, 2009, 10:41:27 pm »

Quote from: pineywoods on September 10, 2009, 02:26:54 pm

Hbarker, that wheel chair joystick probably don't work like you are thinking. Using left-right on joystick for up-down on head would be nice, but think about it. Left-right on the chair just makes one motor run backwards and the other forwards. The joystick is actually 2 controls in one package, so it could be done. Just use the drive for one motor to go forward-backwards and the other for up-down. I'm somewhat familiar with these gadgets, my wife is pretty much confined to one, plus I have built a couple. If the drive electronics are shot, I can point you to a place to get new(non wheelchair) controllers fairly cheap...

Yeah I figured on rewire or hacking the control somehow,, I see what you mean as far as it right controls one motor and left controls the other ,, so may be a trick to that part, great on the pointing in right direction on controls,, got a link ? I may just use other controls if cheap enough..

Bruce_A · « **Reply #11 on:** September 11, 2009, 01:08:42 pm »

What happened to the forward and backward in a straight line control?

Hbarker · « **Reply #12 on:** September 11, 2009, 09:50:01 pm »

Quote from: Bruce_A on September 11, 2009, 01:08:42 pm

What happened to the forward and backward in a straight line control?

Strait line .... with both motors ,, one on right trac and one on left trac.they are syncronized motors no?

pineywoods · « **Reply #13 on:** September 12, 2009, 09:06:27 am »

Quote from: Hbarker on September 11, 2009, 09:50:01 pm

Quote from: Bruce_A on September 11, 2009, 01:08:42 pm
What happened to the forward and backward in a straight line control?

Strait line .... with both motors ,, one on right trac and one on left trac.they are syncronized motors no?

Nope, the 2 motors are not syncronized. They are just plain old 24 volt dc motors with a built in worm gear reduction box. Each motor has it's own independent speed controller, and the joystick is actually 2 separate potentiometers built in a common housing. Just mount the joystick flipped 180 degrees so what was forward is now reverse and reverse the 2 wires going into each motor. That will give you slow forward and fast reverse. Forget using left-right on the joystick for head up-down. The control box is probably all integrated circuits, would be a nightmare to hack. What does your mill use for a clutch ?

StorminN · « **Reply #14 on:** September 12, 2009, 01:01:37 pm »

Hbarker,

You've probably already figured this out, but most of those wheelchair motors have a (normally on) electrically-actuated brake... so if you end up using them without their normal controller, you've got to either power the brake to release it, or flip the mechanical lever on the side of the motor, which keeps the brake in "release" mode.

It seems like you could disconnect the side-to-side potentiometer in the joystick, so that would leave you with just straight-ahead and straight-back movements, and no reversing of one motor in relation to the other (both would always spin the same direction).

I'll second mburrow's comment... all the satellite motors I've messed with are 36VDC, but I've run them on 12VDC... much slower, but they work. I imagine amp draw at 12V could be an issue if they were under a heavy load...

I vote for a control on the throttle, saving on fuel is always a good thing...

-Norm.

Hbarker · « **Reply #15 on:** September 12, 2009, 09:48:32 pm »

Thanks for the replies fellas, I got one motor mounted today and the other one ready to put on ,, I will get a picture tomorrow when its light out so you can see how I have mounted it,..
Seems like one motor on the one side may be enough to carry the lad, I have not powered it up yet, But I supose one on each side would give it a even push...

Hmmmm ,, yeah that *DanG break,,
I am trying to use just the stay arm itself and not take the gear motor off of it because of its stout "stay in position" ability for up and down control in hopes of not needing a break, yeah its a little slow and Ive yet to locate a perfect lift point on my mill head,..
Worm drive , a break , and a couple spockets may be an easier alternative.. $:-\$

Hbarker · « **Reply #16 on:** September 12, 2009, 10:23:48 pm »

Tom

well couldnt figure how to make it show in post,, but there is a pic of the right side motor..

I am looking at that picture and almost have in my mind to take the tire off,, and run a steal cable from one end of the mill to the other ,, just wrap it around that wheel hub.. and see id that works.. but the other way my saw head can be lifted off with the tractor and stored without removing anything.. Hmmmmm $:-\$

fishpharmer · « **Reply #17 on:** September 12, 2009, 10:58:32 pm »

Quote from: Hbarker on September 12, 2009, 10:23:48 pm

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

I am looking at that picture and almost have in my mind to take the tire off,, and run a steal cable from one end of the mill to the other ,, just wrap it around that wheel hub.. and see id that works.. but the other way my saw head can be lifted off with the tractor and stored without removing anything.. Hmmmmm $:-\$

Hbarker, I have a similar idea using a 12 V atv winch. I am close to having it completed. I am gonna wrap the cable around the drum and secure it on each end with turnbuckles to adjust for any stretch. I am concerned the winch (Harbor Freight) won't hold up.

You need to post up some pics of your mill. FF members have an endless amount of knowledge (except me)

Hbarker · « **Reply #18 on:** September 12, 2009, 11:05:30 pm »

wench would be slow for return to cutting position ,, but great I would think for forwward motion ,, I woul dlike to return to cutting position as fast as safely possible,.

I can almost see y mill taking off across the yard and slicing down a bunch of trees, or god forbid hitting some thing or someone..

fishpharmer · « **Reply #19 on:** September 12, 2009, 11:09:10 pm »

agreed, it will be slow. But since its manual and the sawhead is huge. 48 inches between the rails on the log bunks approximately 1000 pounds. I figured a slow return would be an improvement for my back

Hbarker · « **Reply #20 on:** September 12, 2009, 11:28:27 pm »

anything to save a ole man a few steeps eh

I cut and drilled 6 bolt hols in a piece of 1/4 inch plate to mount on bottom of the motor to use its existing bolt holes. cut some 2 inch angle iron to weld that to the saw legs .

bandmiller2 · « **Reply #21 on:** September 13, 2009, 07:34:10 am »

Hbarker,What bandsaw mill do you have??If the electric route doesn't work out well consider hydraulics their the premium mode of power on any mill.A small pump on the carriage driven off the engine ,hyd motor cable feed and hyd cylinder for up and down.Their very controlable ,durable and no duty cycle,no odd voltages, weatherproof.Frank C.

Hbarker · « **Reply #22 on:** September 13, 2009, 11:29:45 am »

Ive got a "home made brand" mill.. Ole timer in Oklahoma makes these ,, I think ive got #76 He also has a brother that lives in Alaska.. making the same mill.
Its simple , but the Ole guy sure took all the but scratchin out of it for me,,,It works good

Hey that was a thought,..,I had considered hydraulics Cept I didnt seem to know anything about them, but ive been reading a bit.. looks like a good option

Would a power steering pump off a small car work for a hydraulic pump? I seen tractor supply sells the little ram/cylinders all diff sizes...

That reminds me ,,,Also I thought about a air tank ,,..an a small set of air shocks for the dawgs.. air or hydraulics on the dogs?

$:-\$ ,,

OHHH and Tom: I am so thrilled to finally figured out how to post a *DanG picture !!!!!!!!!

Hbarker · « **Reply #23 on:** September 13, 2009, 12:02:40 pm »

OK guys,, here is a couple shots of my mill..

this was winter couple years ago,.......

coastlogger · « **Reply #24 on:** September 13, 2009, 04:33:13 pm »

A power sreering pump works extremely well as power source. I have one belt driven off my 13 hp Honda and it runs hyd motors for feed and raise lower. My gallery has some pics. I mounted pump up high so even when cutting last board, it is still above all other components. It is also the only reservoir. Probably wouldnt be a big enough res. if cylinders were involved. My originally manual mill has 2 rope threaded rods to raise lower. I just added a hyd motor to do the turning.I left the crank there and I find it quite useful in getting exact dimensions ie I know a turn is a ffth of an inch etc.

Hbarker · « **Reply #25 on:** September 13, 2009, 05:07:41 pm »

Hydraulics ,,, hmmm Im thinking
But first let me get yall to have a totally open mind for a moment.
Another thought for use of this large sat motor,, with its screw arm intact is ... here is goes,.. ya'll dont laugh to hard " ..
.I wanted to use the receiver control unit to control it, mount it inside shed or a close by box, for the following reasons..
1. it has like 32 programmable memory settings.. I could program it to 3/4 or 1 inch increments..
2. it would be its own break ( cant raise or lower the arm without turning the motor on)
3. it has a UHF remote control.. "bump the arrow to the right and it moves to the desired setting.. bump again .. next desired setting ,,

I have tried taking the screw arm off ,, and without it this little motor can be turned to easy.. So still tryinh to figure a way to mount the one telescoping arm to equally lift on each side of the head.... Hmmmm

I supose the possibilities are endless.. god I thought the mind was a good thing..
I have a head ache now

fishpharmer · « **Reply #26 on:** September 13, 2009, 07:47:03 pm »

Hbarker,
I like the looks of your mill. Especially those white bandwheels

Looks familiar to me.

I would venture to say that mill has some Bill Rake ancestry.

Now I'm not laughing and I am no expert on sawmills or anything really. The following seems to over complicate a simple saw

Quote from: Hbarker on September 13, 2009, 05:07:41 pm

.I wanted to use the receiver control unit to control it, mount it inside shed or a close by box, for the following reasons..
1. it has like 32 programmable memory settings.. I could program it to 3/4 or 1 inch increments..
2. it would be its own break ( cant raise or lower the arm without turning the motor on)
3. it has a UHF remote control.. "bump the arrow to the right and it moves to the desired setting.. bump again .. next desired setting ,,

I have tried taking the screw arm off ,, and without it this little motor can be turned to easy.. So still tryinh to figure a way to mount the one telescoping arm to equally lift on each side of the head.... Hmmmm

I supose the possibilities are endless..

You will figure it out, keep plugging along.

Hbarker · « **Reply #27 on:** September 13, 2009, 08:35:21 pm »

heheheeh Yep its got some Bill Rake ancestry.

Are you by any chance the crazyfishfarmer?? that makes windmills?

Valley Mick · « **Reply #28 on:** September 16, 2009, 09:13:46 pm »

Ive got a 24v dc motor/gearbox on my mill. Running on 12v I took the break out. Because after you put a chain and sprocket on it, you are increasing the mechanical advantage. And I also put a counter wheight on the back of the mill towards the sawhead. To reduce the amp draw on the motor, to make my battery last longer. Just as simple as 2 pullies and cable. The gear reduction on mine is 10:1 plus the chain and sprocket. I have to put a pipe wrench on the jack shafts to turn the motor over. And I just used an old bicycle chain and sprocket. Make sure you put a jack shaft across to each side of the mill then it has no chioce but to pull up even, because its pullin on all four corners if it is a cage type chasis.

Also an electro mechanic (generator doctor) buddy of mine said due to amperage, up to 950 crank . I could use a Rheostat out of an old welder to adjust the travel speed on my travel motor( which is the same 24v gearmotor, just hooked to one roller with a gear,bike sprocket and chain, haven't had a chance to work on this yet. I only have it hooked up for return right now. And have to raise the motor with a lever to pull it out of the gears to push the mill ahead. It is kinda handy this way for now. Because you never look behind you when back pulling and this is when you usually take a header over a slab.

Sorry so long winded. Don

Hbarker · « **Reply #29 on:** September 18, 2009, 12:07:41 am »

Ok fellas,, I got my raise and lower controls working and here is a picture or 2.
They work great .. nice and quiet too. And if i feel creative no problem to use sat ird and the remote to control it

but other controls are still being explored .

Ahhhh I like how that works,, here is another front shot.

Here amazed at what a coat of paint can do..

Now to the forward and backward motors,
Heres a picture with them mounted,, I am still unsure how well this is going to work..
I eye ball my garage door opener and see how direct chain drive would be better ( as mentioned from you guys above),, maybe thats why woodmizer uses chain drive?? it works? I am still experimenting ..

If I changed to chain drive,, ,, and used a garage door opener,,,

it would be remote control

.. but seriously ,,
What other method of controlling the motor do I have If I cut those off and go with a chain drive a toggle switch and a welder control potentiometer?? what else you guys suggest for controls?
Also If changed to direct chain drive ,, with motor on one end of frame and chain movinng the carraige.. one one side work ok?? or would I nee dto drive both sides with the chain ?? My saw head fits tight on the track and when manually pushed ,, I am only pushing from the one side .. ??

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #30 on:** September 18, 2009, 09:30:02 am »

We built a WM type mill. Bought a 3/4 HP 12V DC motor, and ran a stretch of chain down the side of the beam. Mounted the motor to the Sawhead frame, and used an under- over-under chain sprocket set up, to a jack shaft.

Bought a PWM (Pulse width modulator) off ebay. Mounted that to the operator station, using a Drum switch for forward-reverse. Works out fine.

Motor is over sized, but, we had no idea, so, guessed at the power needed.

Ran all the wiring through vacuum cleaner tube, to keep clean, and it works slick with no problems, laying on the ground.

Many photos on my gallery, under "Homey". Also photos in the For Sale section.

pineywoods · « **Reply #31 on:** September 18, 2009, 09:41:06 am »

Unless you already have the welder pot, I'd skip that and go with an electronic speed controller. Google "dc motor speed controller". You'll find a whole bunch of stuff, some in kit form. I bought one off ebay for the wife's electric scooter. On the ir remote, I control my entire mill with one, fwd, back, up, down, guide in, guide out and clutch. 12 channel system is less than $100. try www.electronics123.com...

Hbarker · « **Reply #32 on:** September 18, 2009, 03:44:24 pm »

The Bidirectional DC Motor Speed Controller sure would do nice,, I I cant seem to fint that one NOT in kit form... Speed controls hmmmmm..
I have a couple gutted Treadmills ,, one has a knob speed adjustment,,
the other has a slider speed adjuster,, looks like would have to use the circuit board as well, and its a 110v ac input.. hmm,, wanted to stay DC
either one of those work for my speed control ?? $:-\$

Deadheader,, Is this the controller you have ?

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #33 on:** September 19, 2009, 08:06:08 am »

No, it's not.

Here is what we have, but, I put in a much better potentiometer.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Powerful-80A-PWM-DC-MOTOR-SPEED-CONTROL-battlebot_W0QQitemZ310169141501QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item48378580fd&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14

Seller is -- intheyear2525, on ebay. Might have to contact him for a 60 Amp device. I had problems in the beginning, NOT of the sellers fault, and he replaced a device and tried his best to help me. I recently bought a new one from him.

I also see there are reversible models on ebay ?? Know nothing about them, though. We used the drum switch.

Hbarker · « **Reply #34 on:** September 19, 2009, 11:05:07 am »

cool will certainly check out his merchandise,.. thanks for the links guys...

I read how Pulse Modulation is way better for the motor ,, Rather than simply lowering the voltage to achieve slower speeds. PM uses the pulse of the supplied voltage in short burst for slower,, and long burst for faster,,I wonder.. On the treadmill and its speed controller and circuit board..,, Suppose it also uses this DC Pulse Modulation.. ??

$:-\$

Just fer fun I i reversed the + and - leads on the DC treadmill motor and yes, it does run backwars that way,, So suppose I tried to use those controls. .I see that one leg has a big capasitor and the other leg goes strait to the board..
So I am not sure what the capacitors purpose is?? I was thinking Just add a 3 way toggle ??

Best option looks to be this
http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/motor/k166.htm
what you guys think? it is the bi-directional controller...
With this option do I need anything else between the controller an the motor>?
I can use one of my 12v batteries for power.

Hbarker · « **Reply #35 on:** September 19, 2009, 06:20:30 pm »

I figured out the tread mills control is a motor speed control module MC-40..
110 ac input and 130v dc out

It is just like this one,.. http://cgi.ebay.ph/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230350832427
You see the pot controls ?? maybe its adjustable to diff output voltages?
just thinking out loud...

But still eyeballin that bi directional control,, assembled for 48 bux.. hmmmm

On the chain drive .. Does you guys mills pull from both sides? heres a sketch of what i have in mind ( the new plan i suppose) ..on the back side of the mill..

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #36 on:** September 19, 2009, 10:21:53 pm »

If you use the PWM I posted about, just get a drum switch, and wire it correctly, and you have all you need.

AC in means you will be stationary

Hbarker · « **Reply #37 on:** September 20, 2009, 10:56:27 pm »

yeah , need to try and stay portable,..

Just for reference here is a spec sheet on the wheelchair motor.
http://www.asidrives.com/pdf/adl100.pdf

The bidirectional controller I ordered
http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/motor/k166.htm
I see the 5.5 amp rating $:-\$ I best install me a fuse ,, and maybe hard wire some of the board traces?
previously mentioned controller may have been better.. but I was so impressed with this one being bi-directional..

kelLOGg · « **Reply #38 on:** September 21, 2009, 07:00:23 am »

Hbarker,

I could not find a PWM speed controller with enough amperage that was controlled via a single potentiometer. I purchased the same one you did as a kit because it did have the pot control I wanted but it didn't have the current I needed. I burned it up. I settled on one from MidWest Motion Prod. I have to change direction via a separate reversing switch but it can handle 20 amps and I need only about 10. Not as convenient as a single pot but it is hermetically sealed so it can take rain and humidity - I didn't think the kit could handle the environment and vibration but I never got that far with it.
Bob

Hbarker · « **Reply #39 on:** September 21, 2009, 10:14:04 am »

well poo.. AMP's are a little high on that motor under a load,,
I will try and hardwire solder ove the board traces,, see what that does,,
mfg spec sheet says it will take 42 amps wired that way,,
those higher amp controls are outa my project price range

not to late to cancel my order

What about this controller ,, think it may better suit my application??
http://cgi.ebay.com/12V-30A-DC-Motor-Speed-Control-PWM-HHO-RC-Controller_W0QQitemZ180402610413QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a00d560ed&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

could add a toggle to reverse polarity.??

kelLOGg · « **Reply #40 on:** September 21, 2009, 06:59:20 pm »

I remember those instructions to beef up the amps on that kit - wish I had tried it. You've already got the kit so try to beef it up. If it doesn't work go for the e-bay one.

My wheel chair motor (24 VDC) never goes over 10 amps - and that is on the fast return (although it's not so fast

)
That's 240 watts (or ~1/3 HP). The e-bay one would be 360 Watts - even more. Do you know the amp requirement on your motor? i didn't see it in the thread.

Hbarker · « **Reply #41 on:** September 21, 2009, 08:00:39 pm »

Quote from: kelLOGg on September 21, 2009, 06:59:20 pm

I remember those instructions to beef up the amps on that kit - wish I had tried it. You've already got the kit so try to beef it up. If it doesn't work go for the e-bay one.

My wheel chair motor (24 VDC) never goes over 10 amps - and that is on the fast return (although it's not so fast )
That's 240 watts (or ~1/3 HP). The e-bay one would be 360 Watts - even more. Do you know the amp requirement on your motor? i didn't see it in the thread.

evening and thanks for the reply.
here is the spec pdf on my motor
http://www.asidrives.com/pdf/adl100.pdf

kelLOGg · « **Reply #42 on:** September 22, 2009, 05:52:55 am »

Your motor requires 5 amps at no load so beefing up the kit is essential.

Have you measured the force (lbs) necessary to move the head as fast (feet/sec) as you want it to go? That's a good starting place. From there you can figure out the amps necessary at the voltage used.

There was a thread that helped me a lot when I was adding my power feed. It may be helpful to you. if not I can pass on more details.

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,15084.msg213963.html#msg213963
Bob

moonhill · « **Reply #43 on:** September 22, 2009, 07:01:31 am »

My mill runs forward and back on hydraulic motors with rubber tires pressing against the track. It works with no problem except for ice in the winter, then I don't want to be out anyway. Just mentioning that the rubber wheel should work, mount them with little air in them and then pump them up for a pressure fit. This could save a lot of extra lengths of wire, chain or whatever, and allow for the possibility of track extensions at ease. It came originally with a cable feed system and the manufacturer said most folks are switching to this system. The cables wore out and they were trip hazzards, things were always getting caught up in them too.

Tim

Hbarker · « **Reply #44 on:** September 22, 2009, 11:10:57 am »

Ohh thanks Kellogg.. great informative link ..
I will fer sure beef up the controller soon as it gets here,...

Ohhhhhhh

Moonhill "mfg are using rubber tires pressing against the track." NO FAKE

What MFG.. ?? I thought My buddy and I had an original idea there,, and thought for a week it wasnt the bet idea we ever had,, had almost got my sawzall out to cut them side mounts for the motors off and go with the chain drive.. BUT now I think I will go ahead and see how the motor works with rubber tires pressing against the track.
However.. one reason I had changed my mind to the chain drive was because that little controller would never , NO WAY have enough amp's to run Both motors ,, BUT<>,. one on the one side may work ??
do you have any pictures of your mill??
also what MFG is use the rubber tires pressing against the track.??
Thanks a ton guys ,, you fellas are Sooooo helpfull!

jpgreen · « **Reply #45 on:** September 22, 2009, 12:13:15 pm »

You mentioned engine rpm speed on return a while back and I never like to run engines full out on anything, specially while not under load so what I did when I swapped engines on my Woodmizer was make a throttle control.

That way I can idle it down with the blade engaged if I care to or at anytime. Also- some times I don't need to run the engine wide open when milling, so I can adjust my RPM. Less engine wear.

Good luck on your project, looks like fun,.

Hbarker · « **Reply #46 on:** September 22, 2009, 01:43:38 pm »

Jpgreen,, Tell me more about this throttle control you made. Do you have any pics?

Also .. If I leave motor and wheel on sawhead frame, (dont go with chain drive) I calculated I would then need to run the 12v leads about 24 foot from the controller to the motor,,

What size wire would I have to use for that? lets say IF my motors desire was 40 amps.
would be easier to mount bat and controller onboard ,, and run teathered petentiometer as someone mentioned above,,, however my potentiometer is mounted on the control board, and I dont have one thats off in center and on left and right,.. Hmmmm

moonhill · « **Reply #47 on:** September 22, 2009, 07:27:21 pm »

Breezewood is out of print now, they were a small manufacturer and as I mentioned it originally came with a cable feed system. The tire is a cheap 4.10x?, it is found on cheap hand carts and small air compressors and such. No joke, the tire should work fine if it is mounted at the right location/distance from the track.

I have a relative in a chair and I would think the system should have no problem moving the saw back and forth. I am interested to see how this all works out.

Sorry about the pictures, I have issues with them.

tim

jpgreen · « **Reply #48 on:** September 22, 2009, 07:28:34 pm »

Go here:

http://www.backwoodssolar.com/reference/wire_size.htm

Hbarker · « **Reply #49 on:** September 22, 2009, 08:02:20 pm »

Quote from: jpgreen on September 22, 2009, 07:28:34 pm

Go here:

http://www.backwoodssolar.com/reference/wire_size.htm

Thanks for the chart JPgreen.. very helpful .
So one can run smaller wire a longer distance with 24v system at the same amp rating,. hmm

Also,, more of this throttle control you have ??
I was looking at something like this for throttle??
http://www.firgelliauto.com/default.php?cPath=110

Hilltop366 · « **Reply #50 on:** September 22, 2009, 08:19:41 pm »

Also,, more of this throttle control you have ??
I was looking at something like this for throttle??
http://www.firgelliauto.com/default.php?cPath=110
[/quote]

Would a car door electric lock work?

Hbarker · « **Reply #51 on:** September 22, 2009, 10:13:30 pm »

not sure about the door lock ... thought about even a pc cd drive mounted on the side

BUT look what i found,,
http://designgoddessweb2.com/vtcmotor.html

Small engine throttle unit for speed control with wired switch or our wireless control kit. A simple, reliable solution for a common problem.

Hmmmmmm
It must be soooo expensive they cant post the price.. will call tomorrow

jpgreen · « **Reply #52 on:** September 22, 2009, 10:41:54 pm »

Mine's bonehead simple as it gets.

Just like the stock Onan throttle cable connects to the engage arm, at that point I simply fabricated a lever that went onto that bolt, the connected the throttle cable to the lever. You set the lever like a lawn mower throttle. Push one way it idles up, pull the other and it idles down.

Engage the engine and it jumps up in RPM, but then you have the same push pull adjustment.

Hbarker · « **Reply #53 on:** September 23, 2009, 02:32:12 pm »

Hey fellas, UPDATEon the VC throttle control I spoke with the company rep today ,.
They are only 88.00 bux .http://designgoddessweb2.com/vtcmotor.html
.However they are actually backordered for some time ,,
Said they are actually looking for distributors in Texas.. and if I was interest they could send a
demo model to me

Waiting on email from another person in the company on that one..

Hbarker · « **Reply #54 on:** September 23, 2009, 02:35:52 pm »

Looking at the picture on the website,, looks like a windshield wiper motor to me???
Any ideas on how one could use a windshield wiper motor and regulate it to slow WAY down, and to also stop at any specific point? $:-\$

Just thinkin out loud.........

GF · « **Reply #55 on:** September 23, 2009, 03:12:31 pm »

I purchased a 12v right angle gear motor from surplus center for $19.00. I mounted it in a boc and drilled a hole so the shaft would extend out. I then machined a metal arm about 3 or 4 inches long and attached it to the shaft. I drilled a small hole and attached a throttle cable clamp to it to hold the outside of the throttle cable. The motor is wired to a dpdt toggle switch on the console to throttle up and throttle down. Been using it for over 5 years now and have not had any problems with it. It looks alot like the one at http://designgoddessweb2.com/vtcmotor.html, but I only had $20 in parts.

Unlike a solenoid throttle control that requires power to it all the time while its throttled up the gear motor design only requires power during the throttle up or throttle down process.

Hbarker · « **Reply #56 on:** September 23, 2009, 03:38:49 pm »

groovy GF you got any pics of your control??

Hilltop366 · « **Reply #57 on:** September 23, 2009, 10:32:29 pm »

Maybe something like this ?

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2009092321223842&item=5-1636&catname=electric

Hbarker · « **Reply #58 on:** September 25, 2009, 08:09:01 pm »

anythings possible at this point,,.
just a update had a guy look at my wheelchair controls, they are fubared ,,,
Got controller I ordered in . beefing it up this evening to handle the extra load,

ALSO ,.,. Dude gave me another set of wheelchair motors today..

On the motor break,, Its removable .. nice little electric break system, have to save those for another project...

Hbarker · « **Reply #59 on:** April 03, 2010, 06:00:56 pm »

Almost forgot to update here..

The automation works great ,, I have cut a big pile of boards..
Beats the heck out of manually feeding the saw head.. I still stay with it,, and help it along a bit. but it almost works by its self.

The satellite arms and gears worked GREAT !! like a dream to push the remote control in my hand and watch the laser pointer scroll up or down the tape measure.

Thanks for you guys help and input !!

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