Geothermal now in operation

[scsmith42]

Where is the 30% rebate coming from?  I think it is passing the buck once more, if you are going to use this system pull it out of your own pocket.

Tim 

I do not find it to be a case of passing the buck.

Keep in mind that the tax code is one of the primary ways that the Feds manage the economy.   A few years ago accelerated depreciation was offered for folks buying trucks and SUV's for business use.  The larger the vehicle, the more folks are employeed across the entire manufacturing chain.  It worked, too, until the spike in fuel prices caused a massive shift in buying habits.

Massive reductions in energy consumption will reduce the costs associated with infrastructure upgrades, at a time when federal clean air rules are already driving a lot of utility expenses.  By incenting people to invest in energy saving technology, not only are the Feds influencing near term investments in what is largely a US manufactured product, they are also encouraging longer term energy savings, which in turn will result in more discretionary spending as energy prices rise - ie less future economic impact.

And it works too.  I know quite a few people who have invested in improving their home's energy efficiency during the last year's recession, solely because of the significant tax incentive.  This has helped to keep local people busy selling and servicing, and a lot of US firms busy manufacturing.

[moonhill]

I understand the practical side of the incentive/rebate.  It is more of a wishful thinking on my side, wishing we didn't need financial attachments to make the right decision.  There is something wrong with a society when it's needs are motivated by cash on the end of a stick. 

Why can't we bite the bullet and make the right decision, the ones for the long term, with out the Feds getting involved?   

Point in case, Scott.  The Fed promoted the purchase of trucks and SUV's, were they thinking of the future when fuel prices would go up?  No, they just went on and incentivised a plan to have the workers purchase an item to solve a present problem, they needed to sell some trucks, someone did benefit.  Who was it?.   So the business person was left holding the bag and paying the bill, the fuel price.  Pass the buck.   

Tim

[scsmith42]

I understand the practical side of the incentive/rebate.  It is more of a wishful thinking on my side, wishing we didn't need financial attachments to make the right decision.  There is something wrong with a society when it's needs are motivated by cash on the end of a stick. 

Why can't we bite the bullet and make the right decision, the ones for the long term, with out the Feds getting involved?   

Point in case, Scott.  The Fed promoted the purchase of trucks and SUV's, were they thinking of the future when fuel prices would go up?  No, they just went on and incentivised a plan to have the workers purchase an item to solve a present problem, they needed to sell some trucks, someone did benefit.  Who was it?.   So the business person was left holding the bag and paying the bill, the fuel price.  Pass the buck.   

Tim

Tim - good points all.  Seems that for ever action there is some type of reaction...

[Traditional Toolworks]

I understand the practical side of the incentive/rebate.  It is more of a wishful thinking on my side, wishing we didn't need financial attachments to make the right decision.  There is something wrong with a society when it's needs are motivated by cash on the end of a stick. 

Why can't we bite the bullet and make the right decision, the ones for the long term, with out the Feds getting involved?

Can't the same be said for the rebates you got on solar? Why is that different?

[moonhill]

It is not different, you have caught me with my tongue in the vice.   But I have done a good job up till now.  This was the third up grade to my system, as the need/wants of the family grow so does the demand.  We even had an professional work on the system, he tidied it up nice and neat.  He was the influential factor in the matter.  I am not much different than most folks when and incentive is dangled in front of them.  A difference could be in the way a decision is made, are you choosing to go with an alternative because of the incentive?  Probably not.  I was not, I was making the addition no matter what. 

I think it is a form of marketing, these rebates.  Marketing is a tricky business.  Trying to push something on someone they may not really need.  If these systems were all they are cracked up to be would they need to be incentivsed?  I can speak from personal experience on the solar and wind industry.  It is big money for a system of any substantial size, and it still needs to be kept up.  It is not free energy, by any means.  And I don't think Geothermal is all it is cracked up to be either, try running it off a solar system, without the grid you are stuck.  I am two miles form the grid and I am still hooked to it via a propane truck.  To be clear when I say grid I mean the energy system, primarily fossil fuel.  I believe we are running on a false system and within a few years or less it will become more apparent as energy rises.

Where did the idea of a rebate come from, I bet some psychologist made it up or at least one was consulted. 

How about these outdoor wood boilers, do they use electricity and how much?  It is hard to beat a nice wood stove in the house.  Now I am going to rag on the owb's, I have come close to getting one but haven't made the leap, I am under the impression it will require more electricity via circulator pumps, smaller in comparison to the geo pump requirements though?

Tim   

[scsmith42]

It is not different, you have caught me with my tongue in the vice.     

    

[Traditional Toolworks]

It is not different, you have caught me with my tongue in the vice.

At least 'ya got enough testosterone to admit it, and nothing wrong with getting one either, I think me, you, and most others are looking for better ways to provide not just heat, but electrical, and other utilities as well.

I think it is a form of marketing, these rebates.

I always get the impression that the marketing is for done by the folks who have the most to gain, and fossil fuels are what the bulk of America are dependent on. I would like to ease that burden, but don't want to just jump off the grid right now. In fact, I don't plan to do anything yet about where I live in the city, all of my water, gas, and electricity are purchased from the grid.

For me it is that I am trying to devise what I think is the best system possible. Although I don't think there is any perfect system, geothermal looks really good to me, and I have read really good success from people with closed loop systems where their utilities are down to under $100/mo. by using geothermal. I was a victim of Enron, maybe that makes me want to get away from being dependent. I have been planning to use it, and knowing I would spend more, in hopes that it would ease my burden. It is my next house that I will most likely retire to, but that isn't cast in stone yet.

If these systems were all they are cracked up to be would they need to be incentivsed?

Not sure that is true, just that some of these technologies are new, and geothermal is one. Even given total cost, and I know it cost more...but it saves more also.

Where did the idea of a rebate come from, I bet some psychologist made it up or at least one was consulted.

I think both solar and geothermal are good. Just that the gains for the outlay don't seem as good with Solar. I might be wrong, but geothermal seems to have better returns than solar. 

How about these outdoor wood boilers, do they use electricity and how much? 

Not as far as I know. They do heat water also...but it still requires a lot of wood to keep them going...or pellets...wood is pretty messy also, and some folks don't care for it because of that. I am not using it now, but have used it in the past and it is not without fault. I do want it for a 2nd resource, as it can be renewed easily by cutting firewood.:-)

I am under the impression it will require more electricity via circulator pumps, smaller in comparison to the geo pump requirements though?

That is only for water, AFAIK, but that does require additional. Geothermal requires it also, somewhere to keep the loop going. In my case I want to pump it from the lake up to the house. I think an open loop into the lake would be ideal. The lake is pretty large, so the temp of the water shouldn't vary much at all. It will be cooler always in the summer, and hotter in the winter, because of that.

I have heard the batteries are expensive to replace with solar, and that they need replacement. In theory, geo doesn't require that maintenance...maybe Quinton can comment on that?

[Qweaver]

Our reasons for selecting geothermal were not mainly the rebate but instead our age.  We had a wood stove for a while and really liked that type of heat but it really becomes a hassle and would have become worse as we got older.  So we went to a pellet stove.  Usually just one bag a day and a quick cleanup every 3 or 4 days and we still have the ambience of a wood fire.  But another factor is that we want to be able to leave the house for extended periods during the winter and needed a system that we could rely on to keep the house above freezing. 
This broken hip has shown the benefit that the geo gives me.  I am burning the pellet stove just because I want to and have 3 tons of pellets setting in the shed and I have cousins that come in each day to load pellets for me.  But for several days I just let the geo do the heating and it was flawless.  As we get older the convenience will be a bigger factor.
Did the rebate help me decide? Sure.  It also helped me decide to buy a newer more efficient pellet stove.  I think the rebate program is a good idea.  If  we can lower energy use because of the rebate program...it makes sense to me.

Quinton