Selling trees in western VA?

[patm1313]

I'm going to sell some trees in western VA. I have never sold trees before.

I have about 80 trees to sell, almost all are yellow poplar, s. pine, and red oak.

My main questions are:
1. The nearest saw mill is an hour away. Will they be willing to come to me and cut only 80 trees?
2. I can fell the trees and place them on my property near the road for very easy pick-up for the mill. Or they can fell them themselves using a dirt road going through my property, for a reduced $/mbf cost. It would only be me and a friend felling the trees. Which do you think is a better idea?
3. Since access to the trees is provided, how long can I expect them to take to cut and haul all 80 trees?
4. Should I negotiate a lump sum or by $/mbf harvested? Can I expect them to pay me before they cut?
5. Roughly what should I expect as a lump sum for them to cut and haul the 80 trees?

Thanks for any help,
-Patm1313

[critter]

      Are they sawlogs or pulp dose the mill take logs or tree length
     
      Whats the dbh. what size are they on the stump how tall are they

[beenthere]

patm1313
Welcome to the forum.  Good questions to consider at this point (before you cut any down  )

For some good reading, check into the "Ask a Forester" board and read some of the previous questions and answers. There you will find good suggestions about your thoughts.

One suggestion will be to get someone trained for your area who will help you decide what your best options are in the present market conditions (not so good now).

Try to take some time to make up your mind on what to do.

We are interested and will try to help.

[Chico]

I agree with Beenthere also I think you 'll find If you can wait a while prices and options may be a little more favorable jmo
Chico

[Gary_C]

You should also get some local advice from your state forester. One of the VA state program foresters is a member here and checks in every once in a while. I think his member name here is Phorester.

Those are all good questions, but they also tell any prospective bidders that you are a novice at this timber harvesting. You do need the help and advice of someone local. I don't know how much time and help the state foresters office can offer, but that is a good place to start.

[patm1313]

Thanks for the help.

Can I get someone from the state to come and help me get approximate measures for the trees and a general appraisal or should I get someone from prospective mills to do this?

I have decided that if they are willing to cut and haul the trees that I will be able to offer around 150 trees. What's standard equipment used for cutting and hauling this number of trees? There is a 20 foot wide dirt road that runs up to the trees I would like to sell, and I would like to be able to tell the loggers what equipment will be able to get to the trees.

Also, do you think a lump sum of $1,700 for 150 trees around 14 inches in diameter consisting of a mix of s. pine, red oak, and poplar is a good price for the area?

[Gary_C]

Thanks for the help.

Can I get someone from the state to come and help me get approximate measures for the trees and a general appraisal or should I get someone from prospective mills to do this?

It would be a very good idea to get a forester from the state or a private forester to write a good forest management plan. Don't just sell 150 trees or you will destroy your woodlot for not much in return. You need some advice from someone nearby that is working for your interests. Much as we all here would like to help, you need someone local to look at what you have and decide what you should do.

And when, not if you get someone to advise you, let the expert do the suggesting of what or how many to cut rather than have a number in mind and tell them what to do.

It takes a long tome to grow trees and only a very short time to destroy your woodlot. Take you time and seek good advice. You will not regret it.

[Chico]

Very good advice remember anyone in the lumber bus wants the raw mats as cheap a pos some call it by diff names but it's just the reality of business as Gary said anyone here telling you the worth of your timber would be a shot in the dark Good Luck with your timber
Chico

[Brisawyer]

where are you in western va

[patm1313]

I'm around Richlands. I'm definitely getting a state forester out there to give me some help with the timber.

[Ron Scott]

Yes, definitely seek out the help of a local DNR Service Forester, Conservation District Forester, or professional Consulting Forester.

[Phorester]

Getting here late in the discussion, but you are making the right decision.  I work in the Winchester area. Off the top of my head I don't know who my counterpart is down there, but you can get it from the DOF website if you don't already know.

Just two quick points to add: in Virginia loggers do not buy trees already cut and placed by the roadside as they do in other States.  They buy only standing trees.

As already been mentiioned, you might be putting the cart before the horse.  Ideally, a timber sale should be a result of a managment plan recommendation to improve your forest, not as an end unto itself with no thought of the future forest.

You'r on the right track asking questions before you cut or sell trees.  It's a very good move you are making by getting a forester who is working for you (one of our State foresters or a consultant hired by you), not one who wants to buy your timber, for advice.

We can answer general questions here, but a forester on the ground looking at your woods and with a working knowledge of your local timber markets is the guy/gal to defer to.

Let us know how it unfolds.

[stonebroke]

How come loggers will not buy trees roadside inVA. ?

Stonebroke

[SwampDonkey]

If I read this right, the owner is a novice. Even if it's all roadside, is all the material marketable? Asking a logger to just come along with a truck to load the wood may not be that simple. It may need bucking and sorting and culling waste. What about marketable volume scale?

[Phorester]

STONEBROKE, buying logs by the roadside has never caught on here. It might just be tradition, but I can see several disadvantages to doing this: with sawtimber the big thing is that landowners don't know how to judge and cut sawlogs for the best grade.  I think they'd cheat themselves. In the summer bacterial stain and fungi get into cut logs immediately and start degrading them.

For sawlogs, the landowner is better off selling standing trees. Once a tree is sawn into a log, it is easier to determine the value by looking at the end of the log, so the buyer knows almost exactly what he is buying and the advantage is his.  Looking at a tree on the stump, that value is not as apparent so the advantage is with the landowner.

As far as pulpwood, this is bought by weight here, and the longer it sits in the woods the more it dries out so the less it weighs. Rarely does a landowner have the time or equipment to cut and move logs quickly to the roadside. The buyer would be at the mercy of the landowner to get a load of logs to the roadside, not himself, so the buyer would not have as steady a supply as he would be cutting it himself. 

But I would think that these same disadvantages would be everywhere, so I have always wondered why it's done in the northern States?

[stonebroke]

Maybe because we have higher value trees? Also winter

Stonebroke

[Ron Wenrich]

We buy roadside because its easy wood.  As long as we can get a truck to it, we'll load it up.  We pay according to value, and some of those trees are pretty low value. 

For us, its just a matter of moving one or several trucks.  We don't have to make road, push in a landing, or move logging equipment. 

We recently bought 40 Mbf of wood that was cut, and bucked.  There was a forester involved and a tree company did all the cutting and skidding.  They got paid big bucks, since it was next to a major highway.  We were the only bidder and we got a lot of low grade white oak.  We sawed it into ties and flooring lumber.  The price for the logs was less than what our logging costs would have been, and the bucking left something to be desired. 

I wouldn't recommend landowners doing a sale like this.  Too often landowners will mess up the bucking by cutting them too short for different products, and they often ruin the veneer value. 

I've heard of foresters that have tried to get a contract cutter in, then they were going to market the logs.  Many of those guys failed.

[WDH]

You would be hard pressed to sell 80  - 150 trees down here.  That is such a small volume for a professional logger that they would not want to move equipment to cut that little volume.  Those that would cut that small volume are not typically the highest on the logging food chain, so you have to do your homework before you turn just anybody loose to cut in your woods.  That may not be the case in your area, so checking with the DOF foresters will serve you well.

Like has been said, some timber management planning is in order so that you just don't cut all the prime rib and back strap and leave just the belly meat .

[SwampDonkey]

Most of the time around here, a trucker is hired by the woodlot owner if he doesn't have a truck. But, we are talking experienced woodlot owners who know how to buck for grade and markets. Small volumes of hardwood veneer and logs are usually bucked and scaled by marketing board on site staff who work with buyers. Right now those markets are dried up. One large woodlot owner was recently told not to bring any hardwood to their yard. Don't know the full story. Not a great deal of hardwood used up this way for construction, just mostly molding, trim and maybe cupboards and fine wood working (which are usually plywood). The hardwood lumber broker said very small volumes are sold here. Old stair cases and steps in these old farm houses is all spruce. Furniture yes, but it mostly came from Montreal by rail.

[rickywashere]

never have i worked for a timber company here that would buy timber unless they cut it /// not sure why but bout the only way here they would even go look at it is if it was almost free ... the reason being as most landowners would cut it in unusable lengths, bad grades also most dont even allow for trim ... around here about 99% of the loggers are middle men they buy from the landowner either straight sale or on percentage then re sell to a yard and they ship to market //// ... patm1313 have you checked with the guys out rosedale .. the last guy i worked for paid 25% off the top and most landowners where happy with it

[gemniii]

Also, do you think a lump sum of $1,700 for 150 trees around 14 inches in diameter consisting of a mix of s. pine, red oak, and poplar is a good price for the area?

Isn't 150 trees 14" DBH a small amount of small trees?

In  this market do you even think anyone would bid?

If so I've got a lot of small trees in Mississippi to sell.

[rickywashere]

i agree that small of trees you would be luck to get pulp prices for them /// you would get more money out of them finding somebody that made mining  timbers and sell to them ... for about 25% off the top per load . the problem is its just to small to get a good market value out of them there may be a few good logs in the mix but not enough to be profitable to the logger