Understory Eastern Hophornbeam & American Hornbeam

[wolfram]

Within a larger parcel in western NY, I have about 5 acres of predominantly pole-sized hard maple.  The understory is dominated by eastern hophornbeam and hornbeam, which appears to be causing problems with maple regeneration.  I'd like to favor the maples in this area.  Are there reasons to leave any smaller/deformed eastern hophornbeams or american hornbeams?  Should I remove most of them and leave a few of the larger ones for wildlife?  Thank you!

[WDH]

Eastern hophornbeam has limited to no wildlife value.  I had a dense understory of it, and I asked several wildlife biologists if it had any wildlife value.  No, very little.

It is very shade tolerant, so unless you control it, it will hang around in the understory and keep other species from getting established.  It will also compete significantly for available moisture and nutrients.  I would not keep much of it around.

[John Mc]

I've heard different than WDH about the wildlife value, particularly for Eastern Hophornbeam (from a foresters, a couple of wildlife biologists, and a non-profit in Vermont dedicated to educating landowners about integrating wildlife concerns into their management plans).

Around here Eastern Hophornbeam (light brown bark with long narrow scaly ridges. Leaves are elliptical, doubly saw-toothed, dull yellow-green on top) is valued as a source of food for wildlife. The nuts and buds are eaten by grouse, turkey, and other birds, as well as deer and rabbits. I'm told they are a good winter food source, since any late-dropping nuts tend to float on top of the snow, making them easy pickings for wildlife. It also makes great firewood. Some around here also call it "Ironwood" or "American Hophornbeam"

American Hornbeam (not American Hophornbeam) also called "Blue-beech" or "Water-beech", though it's in the birch family, not beech. Elliptical doubly saw-toothed leaves, which are dull, dark blue-green on top. This has a smooth, blue-gray bark (probably where it picked up the nick-name of Blue-beech). I haven't seen as much of this in my area, but am told it's twigs and foliage are browsed by deer, and the nuts eaten by grouse, pheasants, etc.

Both of these are understory trees in hardwood forests.

[submarinesailor]

I have shot many a squirrel out of Ironwood trees.  In Virginia, they love the berries.

Bruce

[Clark]

Thinking out loud, I would tend to agree that hophornbeam has to have some wildlife value, at least in the more northern states.  Possibly it isn't favored by wildlife in the south, but I imagine that would have to do with their greater selection of food sources.  If nothing else, it certainly looks very nice in the winter when everything else has lost it's leaves.  That's probably one of the reasons nurseries can sell it homeowners.

Now, getting to the question at hand: based on how well it can seed in, controlling it must be difficult.  I would make an intensive effort to snuff out any and all undesirable, seed-bearing trees and any that will become that age soon.  This might mean hacking trees with a power saw or hand axe.  According to the Silvics manual, cutting the stumps as low as possible will reduce the amount of stump sprouting, root suckering does not occur.

In addition, I would think not thinning the overstory for 5-10 years would help reduce the amount of seedlings that make it.  I have seen where mature hophornbeam has been shaded out by larger maple.  Over time I think you can make it happen, just don't expect things to change over night or with the wave of a magic wand.

Clark

[SwampDonkey]

It (O. virginiana) is a problem in some sugar bushes, taking over the understory. I remember one bush that was wall to wall with it, hard to get around to maintain the pipes, let alone trying to get new maples to develop. As long as a sugar maple forest remains relatively undisturbed that stuff stays in check and exists sparsely. Problem is, even the maples can't regenerate and develop well, they just sit their like a seedling and might be several years old. Refer to signature picture below, most all the green under foot is sugar maple. The smaller stems in the back ground were in openings from firewood cutting and are mostly sugar maple. If you want good sugar maple regen you need small openings (1/4-1/2 acre) and in those openings I'd take a brush saw to the ironwood to release the maples in 10 years. Some sites up here convert heavily to yellow birch with larger cuts even if the parent trees were sparse in the stand. They put out a whack of seed.

[wolfram]

Thank you all very much for the great advice.  Since I found more of each in nearby stands, I think I'll thin 'em out of this maple stand and see what happens.  I made some turning blanks today out of the american hornbeam and I'll make some chips tonight.  Thanks again for your help!

[tyb525]

I know they are both very hard and dense. I have never seen either get big enough to make turning blanks out of though. There are a few bunches of American Hornbeam (ironwood) scattered around, and the occasional hop-hornbeam can be found.

I would like to see pictures of your turnings!

[Chuck White]

I was sawing (mobile) for a customer yesterday and he had a, "1" - 10"X 10' HopHornbeam in the log pile.

Sawing was a little slower on this than on the Cherry & Red Pine.  Quite a few strings mixed in with the sawdust!
Very heavy lumber.  Sawed into 1x6 boards.
Beautiful grain in the wood!

Chuck

[SwampDonkey]

It was a prized wood here, and I have seen it as large as 18 " on fence row between farms that grew back up to forest. Most of the time an 8" one is a big one. Very slow growing, I have two in the yard and they have to be the slowest grown hardwood I've seen growing in the open.

[SPIKER]

I have some rather large "Hop-hornbeam" in my woods, several are over 12" easy, most of the smaller ones that are showing signs of problems are turned into fire wood for the sugar maple boiler   that and some elm and maple seem to work the best for firing the boiler.  I sugar only a few trees for myself and use open pan on fire pit. works well IF you use good wood. (did one batch that I used some "popple" and that tasted bad as some of the smoke is absorbed into the product. and if it has some maple or elm those seem to make it taste even better.

I have found that when they get above 10" or so the center is often starting to get soft, hollow or is already rotted out pretty good.   Some critters do seem to like the seeds, Squirles chip-monks and often song birds I see in the tops in fall/winter.

this pic is of a 8~10" dbh and you can see the problems mainly with them, are that most of them are not very straight and most often have a good number of branches throughout the main trunk from near bottom all way up.


Mark

[SwampDonkey]

They sure do heat up a brush saw blade. I cut down two or three with 3" buts this morning. I choose white ash, yellow birch or sugar maple to leave any day even a nice looking large tooth aspen, but one once in awhile gets left if it looks nice.  There were a few beech that came down, as well as some rotten butted suppressed fir. All the old fir I cut was brown in the middle with a big logging scar up the side. SNIP!!

[wolfram]

We found some rather large hophornbeam.  Four ~12" dbh logs all rising out of the same stump in various directions.  Never saw anything like it before.  Left 'em be.....until I can find a use for it!

[cheyenne]

Best firewood mother nature ever invented other than apple.....Cheyenne

[woodtroll]

I have dealt with hop horn beam many times in the central hardwoods. It was a major understory influence in the southern Illinois woods, and very rarely beneficial. It just gets to thick choking out all the regen and understory plants.  I was very surprised to find it here in WY. also so thick it is hindering the ponderosa pine regen and grass.
We are marking a sale here and it looks as if where it was opened up before the hop hornbeam came in thick and established itself. So my thoughts are either treat it before the harvest. By cutting and treating stems with a Garlon 4 type herbicide. Or after the mechanical harvest, go through and cut the remaining stems.  Prescribed fire usually would be used to reduce sprouts but it would kill off the pine regen.
 


Check out the ground cover.
 


Any thoughts?

[Magicman]

I go through and "Hack n Squirt", using Pathway, and take out excessive undesirable trees.  I just leave them standing.  Nature will take care of them as they die and fall.

[woodtroll]

Usually the translocation would be good. But we don't want to damage our pine regen. A lot of bad luck here in the past with movement through the soil.

[Geoff Kegerreis]

Hophornbeam we call "Ironwood" around here.  It can get rather large, but isn't really a commercial species outside of pulpwood.

Both Ironwood and Hornbeam (Carpinus.sp) have some wildlife value. 

This has been documented on wildlife studies associated with the book "American Wildlife & Plants A Guide To Wildlife Food Habits" by Martin, Zim and Nelson.

It is marginal though - each representing 1/2%-5% of the diet of the animals that use them.

My preference for handling Ironwood is to require loggers to cut them down to 2" diameter on almost any hardwood thinning.  If there are just a few of them growing on the edge of the forest or near a field or opening, it's okay to leave them, but do NOT leave them in an opening or a crown gap, as they are prolific seeders and will outcompete any of the tolerant species for sunlight.  They will form a intermediate canopy that will completely restrict hardwood regeneration.

They are ignored by most, the result of which is less productivity of hardwood forests.

In your situation, I would recommend cutting as many as possible.  Use them for firewood - they have good BTU figures.

[Geoff Kegerreis]

They sure do heat up a brush saw blade.

I've seen sparks flying off my chain before cutting these trees - lots of mineral in them at times.

[SwampDonkey]

The usual method of harvesting in these parts usually reduces it's numbers since it's mostly clear cutting. Trouble is, you don't always get your maple back immediately, except suckered red maple. You often times get aspen in the skidways and heavy traffic areas from wind blown seed and fir-spruce everywhere else and surprisingly birches either white or yellow takes over sometimes white scattered in through the yellow. Yellow being preferred. That pretty much wipes out most of the ironwood in the harvesting phase. If you get poor regen it means you have a lot of hazel and hobble in which case the ironwood will return, blends right in with that 15 foot tall hazel.