Osage-orange, Horse-apple or Bois D'Arc (Maclura pomifera)

[datanull]

I hope this is the right forum.

I live in Montgomery Co. Arkansas.  I think about 80% of the county is part of the Ouachita National Forest.  Not sure that is relevant but “we got trees, in these parts”.

My place is on the "South Fork of Caddo River" about 4 miles west of AR Hwy 8.
I have found 1 mature Osage-orange growing along the river bank.  It could be washed away by the next flood but I hope not.  I have not seen any "apples" on this tree.

Last year I planted a few Osage-orange seedlings and they are doing okay considering I have neglected them.

Next spring I want to plant more but from seeds.  I now have tools to prepare a proper seed bed, and more time to tend them in general.

I want to collect "apples" this fall but I don't know where any significant numbers of trees are.  I know of one on the campus of the University in Fayetteville, and I’m sure there are others probably very close to me but finding a “tree in a forest” can be difficult.

Does anyone know of any that are reasonable close to me where I could collect “apples”?

Also, if anyone has experience growing them from seeds I would like to know any information you are willing to share.

[Kansas]

Its not close to you, but around here you could load up semi loads of them. You can have all you want. Free.
 And welcome to the forum.

[woodsteach]

I'll second what Kansas said!!  Of course I'm just about 65 straight north of him.   As far as what to do when you get the apples (sometime in the fall)  I've piled them up in the corner of my yard (and spread them around the foundation as they are supposed to keep the crickets away).  Then pick them up in the spring when they are a pile of mush and some have started to sprout then plant away.

There is something I've read about placing them in a bucket of water then mushing them up and letting the extra stuff float to the top and discarding it.  Next take the bucket of seed slurry and pouring it into a trench.

good luck
woodsteach

[datanull]

Its not close to you, but around here you could load up semi loads of them. You can have all you want. Free.
 And welcome to the forum.

Thanks for the welcome, and you can't beat that price. I may make a road trip later this year, I'll let you know.

I'll second what Kansas said!!  Of course I'm just about 65 straight north of him.   As far as what to do when you get the apples (sometime in the fall)  I've piled them up in the corner of my yard (and spread them around the foundation as they are supposed to keep the crickets away).  Then pick them up in the spring when they are a pile of mush and some have started to sprout then plant away.

There is something I've read about placing them in a bucket of water then mushing them up and letting the extra stuff float to the top and discarding it.  Next take the bucket of seed slurry and pouring it into a trench.

good luck
woodsteach

Woodsteach, nice Osage-orange wordworking.  Do you do that for a living? 

I too had read about the slurry method.  If I get a load of apples I will try it. 

Keep you eye out this fall for "that idiot" who drive all the way from Arkansas just get gather horse-apples.

[woodsteach]

Woodsteach, nice Osage-orange wordworking.  Do you do that for a living? 

I too had read about the slurry method.  If I get a load of apples I will try it. 

Keep you eye out this fall for "that idiot" who drive all the way from Arkansas just get gather horse-apples.
[/quote]

Thank you for the compliment but NOPE I'm a Woods Teach (High school Industrial Arts Instructor)   

I could be wrong but aren't horse apples the things that come out of horses!  I guess you could come up and gather some of them as well but the hedge apples, hedge balls might smell better.

If you want to remind me this fall I could send you a box of your choosing. (hopefully it is the hedge variety.)


woodsteach

[datanull]

I could be wrong but aren't horse apples the things that come out of horses!  I guess you could come up and gather some of them as well but the hedge apples, hedge balls might smell better.

woodsteach

Oh! I see "woods teach" not "wood steach".  I'm such and idiot, steach is not even a word.

It appears there are two definitions for "Horse-apple".
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Horse+Apple

To avoid further confusion I am intertested in optaining the seeds contained in the fruit (hedge-apples) of the species Maclura pomifera

So ya'll call them hedge apple or hedge balls. I'll need to remember that!

I have read that squirrels will eat the fruit of Maclura pomifera, but do horses also eat them?

[tyb525]

We use them to repel spiders.

[nas]

I believe it's road apples that come from horses

[ARKANSAWYER]

  I got hedge apples up here and alot closer.  I come down that way when I dig crystals.

  I have started the trees from seeds and it is not hard.  It is easier to go to the area in the spring and dig up the little trees coming up.

[datanull]

  I got hedge apples up here and alot closer.  I come down that way when I dig crystals.

  I have started the trees from seeds and it is not hard.  It is easier to go to the area in the spring and dig up the little trees coming up.

Hi ArkanSawyer,  nice to hear from you.  When you come to dig again let me know perhaps you can bring a few OO apples if the season if right.  Is it October when Mt. Ida has the Crystal Festival, is that when you come. To hot for that sort of activity now.   

I have dug on occasion but I usually just pull my partybarge up to a likely spot along the shore of Lake Ouachita and look around.  Found a few but the quality is low.

For the rest of the Forum, Mt. Ida AR is the "Quartz Crystal Capital of the WORLD".   

My place has plenty of rocks but I think I'm a little too far south in Montgomery Co.  for Quartz  Crystals. 

I'm sure there must be OO trees growing in my vacinity, heck I think we are pretty close to the native range for the species.  Just need to ask the right person.

Thanks for the info. 

[ARKANSAWYER]

  They are all along the Arkansas River bottoms and I am sure there are plenty around you once you find them.  Here they are in the bottoms along creeks and fence rows.

  Yep the Big Dig is the Second or Third Sat in Oct but that is the same weekend as Turkey Trot up here.  So I miss the deal down there.  But one year I am going to load up and go down there for the dig.

 www.arrowheadcrystals.com/

[woodtroll]

Doesn't Osage respond well to vegetative reproduction. Stick a cutting in the ground. If the one by the river doesn't drop seed it is a male and would be a desirable tree.  No big mess. Try some cuttings off of it. Just a thought.

[datanull]

Vegetative reproduction, I was not aware that was a good option for OO.  But I will surely give it a try. 

I'm thinkin' early spring before it buds?

[oscarstilley]

I personally like the White Shield variety.  It grows really fast, has almost no thorns and no fruit at all.  You can get grafted versions for about $15 each from www.whitmanfarms.com, I think, although they aren't listed.  Lucille Whitman, the proprietor, said she was grafting some.

White Shield grows really fast, up to 6 or 8 feet annually.  It has larger than normal leaves, dark green, and displays a much better habit than the species generally, at least for anyone wanting to grow timber. 

You can graft White Shield, or propagate from cuttings in summer or winter.  Michael Dirr, in Manual of Woody Landscape Plants, says winter cuttings grow much faster.   He seems to think summer softwood cuttings never catch up, and since he is the elder statesman of tree propagation, I'll take his word for it.

In winter, cut pieces of suitable size in late December, place in moist but not wet growing media, and apply bottom heat.  It is critical that you not let the media get too wet, else they won't develop root nubs.  If you do it right the bottom of the stem will be covered up with little light colored bumps that are the beginning of roots.  The more juvenile the wood the better it roots.

Plant the sticks a couple of weeks before leaves start coming out in spring, and you'll be off and running.  Please note that while grafted versions have a good root system, a short stick in the ground will not be stable.  I don't know for a fact but suspect that a long stick, perhaps 18-24 inches underground, in loosened soil, will nevertheless be stable enough for timber, and perhaps for all purposes.  I am trying to use bottom branches very low to the ground, to start roots in summer, to stabilize trees grown from short cuttings.  I don't have a verdict in on that method.

If you can use the biggest dozer you can get and a serious rip plow to loosen the soil.  If you can cross rip that's even better.  Don't forget to call 1-call before digging.  This is expensive but it will pay big dividends on growth rates.  It's worth every penny.

I am just south of Fort Smith, Arkansas, and I have some of the White Shield osage orange.  Hit me up for a start this winter.  Actually, I'd like to find someone who really knows what they are doing on the bottom heat and moisture, to get some sticks in first class condition for planting in the spring, and then spread them out to folks that want some.  Once you have a start you can get all the cuttings you want from pruning your own patch. 

There are places to buy the osage orange seedlings, and I was going to give you a link, but they aren't advertising any of them.  www.arborgen.com was where I was thinking of buying them, but they aren't on the list now.  BTW, Arborgen has probably the biggest selection of timber seedlings of any place on earth.  Their quality is impressive too, the best I have seen. 

If you want to buy seeds try www.treeshrubseeds.com.  They'll sell you just about any seed that makes any sense at all, but they are also really valuable as a resource for dormancy and other tidbits about the seeds they sell.  The folks that run the place are first class, you'll like them.  However, I am not convinced that seedlings are the way to go unless you graft.

Best of luck on the osage orange.  The wood is high dollar if you get a nice straight clear piece of it.  As fast as it grows, more of it ought to be planted for timber production.  It's hard to work, but when you get something nice made out of it, it will last a lifetime and more.

I'm going to try to do a Flickr slide show of the trees in my yard, including some White Shields I have.  Bear with me, I'm going through a learning curve here, and havn't figured out how to upload photos here directly.

[pineywoods]

Anyone that can obtain osage seed? I would like to have some. Have a good crop of chinqapin acorns be glad to share when they mature.

[woodsteach]

shoot me a pm and we'll set something up

woods

[ARKANSAWYER]

  Well if you will come up and visit for a spell we will go pick some.  It is getting about time for them to drop.  If not I can mail you an orange.  The fruit keeps bugs down and we use them under the house and such.

[iffy]

Farmers up here spend buckets of money to eradicate them from their pastures. They were planted here on property lines to permanently identify the line, make a "living" fence, and help control wind erosion. They worked a little too well. Squirrels and pheasants like the apples best in the winter when they have turned brown. I would be happy to ship apples to anybody that wants them as long as you pay the shipping, but you will have to get the seeds out yourself.
They do propagate well from cuttiings. There was a fad here some years back where you would pull a single vertical blade type plow down the side of a hedge row to sever the roots so they would not suck so much water out of the field. The guys who did that found a new row of trees in a few years right down the line where the plow ran. That fad went away.

[SwampDonkey]

Some people here refuse to operate a chainsaw. When a windfall falls out in the field they just plow around it. No lie. Pure laziness.  Don't even hog the brush back, keeps closing in and the ditches never hogged. Mow the lawn 2 times a week like a golf course. My father shakes his head and this new age farming.

[caz]

Round here we call them Monkey balls. They are every where

 Hedge(osage orange) is not only the best fence posts you can get but also the best firewood.

The old timers called it poor mans coal.