Author Topic: Small Tracked Skidder and Grapple Log Trailer. (Read 10408 times)

Coon · « **on:** May 27, 2009, 11:52:46 am »

Well as some of you may know I like to build my own equipment that is suited for my needs. I am back at it again with attempt number two.

On the first attempt to build a tracked skidder I got part ways through the building process when two things happened. First of all we moved to a different place where I didn't have the room for all my parts and to build and it was a rented place. I have my own now. Second, the unit I was building was ending up way too big and bulky for what I needed and wanted. Well here goes number two....

Keep in mind the majority of this unit is being built from recycled materials.

These two above pictures show what will be the frames of both the skidder and the log trailer. The red material is all from an old field cultivator and is 3x3 box beam 3/16 wall

Here is the start of the frame for the skidder. The frame still has to be lengthened but the material is cut and ready to be welded. The frame is only 24 inches wide and 96 inches long because the overall size of the unit will be just over 108" long and between 54 and 60 inches wide with the tracks and blade on.

Up until yesterday I could not do any welding because I have no power source for my old arc welder as of yet. I went out and borrowed a friends 2 month old Hobart mig. It has the capability for welding with gas but for now he doesn't have any. No problem just use flux cored wire and give lots of penetration.

This is my powertrain for the unit. It is a H4 "Boxer" Subaru engine with front wheel drive differential that pushes about 70 hp or so. I have the drive axles for the unit as well. They will be shortened and run the drive chains to the front drive sprockets. I also have to put a custom braking system on it as it will be the source of steering. Each side will have its own brake.

This last picture shows the basic layout of the grapple log trailer. Again the frame is only 24 inches wide but it has 120 inches of bunk space and another 24 inches to the hitch where the grapple will go. The footprint of this unit will be the same width as the skidder so that it follows in the same tracks.

More progress to come later. I do not know how much will get done today as I have a few other things on my plate but I am sure there will be some.

Brad.

beenthere · « **Reply #1 on:** May 27, 2009, 02:10:40 pm »

Brad
Good to see you back inventing again.
What skidder will this trailer follow, as you indicated you stopped your development of the skidder project?

Look forward to seeing this project unfold.

ADAMINMO · « **Reply #2 on:** May 27, 2009, 03:19:42 pm »

It will follow the one he is building. He stopped building the one cause it was to big and bulky. Now he is gonna down scale some and try a 2nd one.

Coon · « **Reply #3 on:** May 27, 2009, 07:35:12 pm »

Adam is correct. The other skidder that I was building was way to big and bulky for the select cutting that I do. The first skidder would have ended up having to high of a ground pressure which is another of my main concerns. Much of the area that I will be logging is virgin forest per se and I would like to leave it as close to what it is now as I can.

I have not made a whole lot of progress today but did make some and will make some more yet. Pics will follow after dark tonight.

woodbowl · « **Reply #4 on:** May 27, 2009, 11:30:58 pm »

I'm looking forward to seeing this being built. Looks like a good start.

Coon · « **Reply #5 on:** May 28, 2009, 12:33:58 am »

Well now. I didn't get a whole lot done on the project today. Blame it all on my banker.

She kept me tied up for a good while with good results in my favour.

Any how back to business.... I managed to get the frame cut and started to weld in the extensions. Only got one pic though.

Brad.

thecfarm · « **Reply #6 on:** May 28, 2009, 07:05:16 am »

Going to get built ALOT cheaper than buying a skidder and log,grapple trailer.Good luck.

nas · « **Reply #7 on:** May 28, 2009, 11:44:18 am »

keep up all the pictures. I want one too, and I don't follow instructions well. Pictures work better for me.

Sprucegum · « **Reply #8 on:** May 28, 2009, 02:31:52 pm »

Nice work

Ya oughtta take the pictures before dark though

Coon · « **Reply #9 on:** May 28, 2009, 04:19:34 pm »

The only time I have to take pictures is after dark though.

I am too busy building otherwise.

sjfarkas · « **Reply #10 on:** May 28, 2009, 09:56:06 pm »

I want to see lots of pics. I've found that rarely can you buy anything that suits your needs 100% so you either buy and modify or build from scratch. I am curious on what kind of tracks you're going to use.

Coon · « **Reply #11 on:** May 29, 2009, 12:46:25 am »

Well the tracks will be homemade too.

My problem came in with the ground pressure I log in a very sensitive area as mentioned before.

Time for the daily progess report. Not a whole lot accomplished today other than a bunch of choice (maybe not so choice) words and a bit of tack welding. I FINALLY managed to get the engine crossmember tacked into place. When I stripped the car that the powertrain came out of I took it out with the crossmember attached for this kind of use. Being all shaped and bent for the car that it came from I really had no square points that I could use for measuring from to narrow it up. It did however have one bolt hole in the center of the front side. I used this and proceeded to mark it out and cut it. Yup, as you have probably guessed I cut it out of square. I tack welded and ground and cut and tacked again and so forth enough times that the words began to flow like the Mississippi.

I though, was bound and determined for it not to beat me. It never. i can just imagine what the neighbours were thinking as they were shaking their heads.

I know my mrs. came out to check what was going on a couple of times and left right quick without saying anything. I think she finally knows better not poke fun at a viscious dog that's already raging mad.

Here's some pics of the progress.

blame · « **Reply #12 on:** May 29, 2009, 02:51:03 am »

i dont know if i'd want that cross member welded down . hate for you to have to remove the engine to change the oil pan

Modat22 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 29, 2009, 09:18:35 am »

Looks like you and I work on things the same way.

Start working on it and go till you ether fall down or the wife screams at you to get in the house.

Coon · « **Reply #14 on:** May 29, 2009, 10:50:20 am »

That crossmember needs to be welded in. I can remove the oil pan by removing the two motor mount bolts and lift the engine a couple of inches.

Modat I think you best come up north and give me a hand with this project. There is not enough hours in the day.

I could even ship the wife off somewhere if we had to.

Brad.

Modat22 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 29, 2009, 11:38:07 am »

My wife gets so mad when she learns that I'm dreaming up something. I'm wishing you well on this one. Keep those photos coming.

Coon · « **Reply #16 on:** May 29, 2009, 11:59:28 am »

I don't know how much I will get done in the next while. Today will be the last full day that I am home. I have got to go back to work for another 10 night shifts before I get 5 days off. Got a few things to do again today but I am sure that I can squeeze some project time in. It's kinda like art or shop class in school if ya know what I mean

woodmills1 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 29, 2009, 08:26:36 pm »

I can tell this thread is gonna have long legs...nice work so far

Ironwood · « **Reply #18 on:** May 29, 2009, 10:55:48 pm »

FYI, I have owned,.............maybe 8-10 different Subaru's (usually 4x4 wagons, Loyals and their predecessors), I did once kinda screw up a tranny (made it way sloppy) by dragging a fully loaded 6 boat canoe trailer (3000+ lbs) up and out of a summer camp road on the Yough River here in Pa. The road was soooo steep and rocky it was hard to walk up at times. The group leaders Rover broke down so I offered to get them to the boat launch, MISTAKE. After realizing the weigh I was dragging I had to keep it in 4 wheel low the whole way (4 miles or so) to the launch. It still lasted for years but that little stunt must have shortened the life of the tranny.

The only other issue I ever had was the output shaft on one side of the tranny (to the front wheels), the seal went out and I scattered gear lube out (unseen at highway speeds) until the tranny froze up. Other than that beat the $%^& out of them and generally used them as true "utility" vehicals for years, any weather any temp, go go go. Even drug logs and brush for my Granny like it was a tractor .

Sold our last Subaru about 3 months ago (three kids make it tight) already miss that "family".

Ironwood

Coon · « **Reply #19 on:** May 30, 2009, 01:03:49 am »

One last set of pics before I go back to work tomorrow. I also got a few questions.

I got a bunch of welding accomplished along with a bit of cutting and some more welding. I had to cut and remanufacture the first crossbeam to accept the transmission. Here's the progress.

I still have to cut and weld in a piece accross the bottom for reinforcement as well as act as the transmission mount.

Next thing on the agenda with the project is to temporarily install the engine and transmission on to the frame to take a few measurements. If everything mounts up good I should not have to remove this powertrain and just keep on assembling till I get it built.

On to the questions. This project needs a hydraulic system. I do have some of the components I will need but there are others that I will need to find or buy. Here's where I am at.

The engine is a Fujii (Subaru) 1.4L H4 "Boxer" engine that puts out 58hp @5200 RPM and 68 lb-ft (92 N-m) @ 2400 RPM.

I have a 4 spool valve bank set up w/ pressure relief set at 2500 psi.

Spool 1. Blade up/down cylinders ( two cylinders)
Spool 2. Up/Down Hitch System
Spool 3. Winch/ Quick couplers to run accessories.
Spool 4. Quick Couplers to run accessories.

Now I guess what my question is is: What do I need for a pump? I would like to run at about 2500 psi. How many gallons per minute would I need. Single stage or two stage? Keep in mind that I will be running the grapple system on the log trailer off of this pump as well. I will just run it off of one of the quick couplers.

The sooner I figure out the pump setup the sooner I can start looking to see if I have one or have to buy. In this part of the country most of the time I can find what I need off of old farm equipment and such. Sometimes I can get them for simply taking them off. There is so many parts around that will never be used again that it makes me want to puke. Hence why I am using nearly all recycled materials.

Brad.

FTD · « **Reply #20 on:** May 30, 2009, 04:14:10 pm »

What year and model did the powertrain come out of?

I knew a guy that made a log splitter out of the PS pump off a big rig. Why not use the existing PS drive off the crankshaft to run your hyd.? That engine will make plenty of Hp to run any pump.

Coon · « **Reply #21 on:** May 30, 2009, 05:22:37 pm »

Well first off the power steering pump will in no way be large enough. These cars did not have much of a pump on them and it got punted into the bush when I stripped the car.

The powertrain came out of a '73 Subaru 1400 DL. The car had low miles on it and was in an accident that bent the frame. The car was also pretty much rusted out.

Off to work I go. Will check in from time to time if the motel still has wireless.

Brad.

Chico · « **Reply #22 on:** May 30, 2009, 07:00:55 pm »

Looking Good Nothing more satisfying than doing a project and when you finish it actually looks and does what it did in your head

Chico

Ironwood · « **Reply #23 on:** May 30, 2009, 09:41:39 pm »

1973

, I thought they didn't arrive on our shores until the late 70's? My first was a 1600 or 1800 (I think) was a 1981 w/ a vaccum hose to lift a lid on a "passing light" in the center of the grill.

Ironwood

sjfarkas · « **Reply #24 on:** May 31, 2009, 01:27:13 am »

Would a similar setup be a small excavator w/blade a grapple on the end of the boom. weld a receiver hitch to the top of the blade and hook a trailer to that. Then you could put the blade down to load the logs. The tracks would give you the low ground pressure. The only down fall is that you wouldn't have a blade in front. It seems with 10' logs that you could use a 10k excavator. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but my mind wonders when I here about a great idea.

Chico · « **Reply #25 on:** May 31, 2009, 01:01:41 pm »

You're going to need a pretty hefty pump to run those acss I would use a 2stage because you can get more press at lower RPms and it makes your accs work quicker as a rule jmo you could call someone like vickers and ask them then find you something I myself would go with 20 GPM or thereabouts, But rergardless of what size pump you run be sure and run as big a oil tank as you can It will help the system stay cool and I would try to find a way to get the valve out of the cab even if I had to use linkage It will take the heat out and also the chance of being scalded by Hot oil If you have to put it in the cab Be sure and put some type of deflector so the oil can't get to you in case of a busted line and with quick coupling your going to have seepage on hook up It might be better to run the lines outside and use a bracket for all the couplings ,JMO It's looking good you're going to have a neat little machine when you're through

Coon · « **Reply #26 on:** June 05, 2009, 05:23:16 pm »

Well I am home again. A few things changed at work and I got sent home for 5 days off after working five nights. I just got home yesterday and today I get a call to come back for a couple of extra night shifts early because one of the guys has to go to the city for surgery on his hand due to a work injury that happened last night. I guess he got a chunk of steel embedded into one of the bones in his hand. Extra shifts = extra money for some of the needed pieces to the project. Gotta get some hyraulic hoses and such....

Guess there won't be no time to work on the project this time around.

No this project is really in no way set up like a small excavator. Set up way more like a small cat and the log trailer is just a grapple log traile like you would pull behind a small tractor or atv. The grapple system in this case is going to run off of the auxillary circuits of the skidder.

I really do not know how many GPM I will need to run but yeah i was thinking about using a two stage pump. I will keep in mind the suggestions about the valve inside the cab, but I am pretty sure that it will have to be put in there due to space limitations. I will be sure to put a guard around it though.

Brad.

Sprucegum · « **Reply #27 on:** June 08, 2009, 12:05:57 am »

I can't give you a definite size for hyd. pump but I bet you don't need as much as you think you do

You will have lots of things run off hydraulics but you really only run one at a time. If you have a small 2-stage on hand give it a try. I guess what I'm saying is don't waste a lot of time looking for a big pump just to save 30 seconds on a grapple lift.

Coon · « **Reply #28 on:** June 08, 2009, 02:26:11 am »

I hear you on that one. I have been looking around for just about any two stage hydraulic pumps. There is all kinds of old farm equipment around that I can take off of but then alot of them are single stage.

Here is one pump that I have on hand along with the tank and valves but I don't want to use a high pressure set up. I am pretty darn sure that it is high pressure because of the pressure fittings. Came off a 510 Massey Fergusson combine.

I may have to break down and buy a new pump but I don't want to. Remember I am trying to use everything used except for small things like hoses and wiring and such.

Hope the weather will be in my favour in the morning so I can work on the project.

Sprucegum · « **Reply #29 on:** June 08, 2009, 09:51:13 am »

I am not familiar with that pump. Is that 1" suction and 3/8" outlets? Could be a bit small alright. I would plumb everything with 1 1/2" suction and 1/2" pressure lines then reduce down right at the pump if you need to. Mount the pump where you can get at it easy and leave lots of room around it in case you want to size up later.

Easy to do on paper

Good luck making it fit

Coon · « **Reply #30 on:** June 08, 2009, 11:54:19 am »

Yup, pump size and location are part of my main concern as well with this being a fairly small unit.

This pump that I showed you has to be waaaay to small and too high of pressure. The tank will only hold maybe a maximum of 2 imperial gallons.

I have an Eaton hydraulic motor that I will be using for either the winch or the rotator on the grapple. I am not to sure on the max flow for the motor but I know we use the same ones at work. These get ran up to 6.5 GPM. I believe that they will handle up to 10.

So I believe a system of up to 10 GPM should suffice with an operating pressure of 2500-3000psi. What do you guys think?

Chico · « **Reply #31 on:** June 09, 2009, 07:47:03 am »

The reason I suggested a larger pump is My thoughts were that you may use two things at on time such as the lift and swing or the grapple and swing while dragging a log etc though I'm by no means an expert I just always build big so the system will run cooler and less chance of hot oil bypass jmo
Chico

Coon · « **Reply #32 on:** June 09, 2009, 12:22:40 pm »

I am pretty sure that 10 GPM is more than sufficient. We run full sized tractors on less at work. A two stage pump should give me what I need. Think of this unit I am building as being a small tractor/cat cuz it is really no different except for the fact it is built for my needs.

I guess the working on the project wasn't meant to be these days off. We have been getting some much needed rain. I may be able to get some done later this afternoon will just have to see. Would like to get the engine/trans mounted on the frame atleast so I can get some measurements made.

John Mc · « **Reply #33 on:** June 10, 2009, 09:49:26 pm »

Will the speed changes involved in a two stage pump cause you problems? Imagine moving a log slowly under enough load that you've kicked the pump into "low gear". something slips or otherwise reduces the load. The pump kicks in to high gear, and things start moving at twice the speed.

I'm no expert at hydraulic design, but are any of the commercially made grapples run off a two stage pump? There must be a reason tractors use single stage pumps -- if that reason were just price, and there were a real advantage to two stage pumps in these applications, you'd think someone woould ofer it as an option or a retrofit.

Chico · « **Reply #34 on:** June 10, 2009, 11:58:20 pm »

All a two stage pump really does is reduce the cycle time by being able to maintain a higher press at a lower rpm it should n't really just take off almost all hyd feeds etc are two stage jmo
Chico

ksu_chainsaw · « **Reply #35 on:** June 11, 2009, 10:38:22 am »

A 2-stage pump will maintain the same PSI on either stage, but what is compromised is the flow rate(GPM). This will affect how fast something will move- the more flow that is going through a hydraulic cylinder or a motor, the faster it will move. Having 2 or more smaller pumps would be a better choice, then they could be sized to match the flow rate for each application. An example of this would be one large pump for the drive train, another pump for power beyond for the grapple on the trailer, and then another pump for blade and winch on the skidder. This would reduce the cost as smaller hydraulic pumps are easier to find in salvage lots than the larger pumps that would run everything.

Just my opinion.

Charles

Chico · « **Reply #36 on:** June 11, 2009, 10:50:59 am »

good idea
Chico

John Mc · « **Reply #37 on:** June 11, 2009, 09:18:49 pm »

Quote from: Chico on June 10, 2009, 11:58:20 pm

almost all hyd feeds etc are two stage jmo

On log splitters, maybe. On tractors, they are mostly single stage (mine has one pump for power steering, and another for flow to implements, such a loader and whatever I've got hooked up to the rear hydraulic remotes).

sjfarkas · « **Reply #38 on:** June 11, 2009, 11:47:22 pm »

I know that many tractors run multiple pumps. I've been told that Timbco's run up to 4 pumps.

Chico · « **Reply #39 on:** June 12, 2009, 12:24:20 am »

I'm speaking of larger sawmill feeds such as the big Berry's and sunstrands and pumps that feed the schurman gang etc while operating the pins and arbor setup etc Sorry I should have been more specific John

Chico

sjfarkas · « **Reply #40 on:** June 15, 2009, 09:04:00 pm »

I'm itching to hear about more progress. Any news? Have you resolved the pump question?

Coon · « **Reply #41 on:** June 19, 2009, 12:52:08 pm »

Well I just got home from a nine day stint of work. Each day was minimum of 12 hours and the longest days were 16 hours for a total of 128 hours. Have not had a chance to even think of the project YET... Progress will come in the next few days that I will be home. But for now......

Coon · « **Reply #42 on:** June 21, 2009, 01:35:49 pm »

Grrr. It's not looking good for working on this project. We have been getting rain for the last three days and it's coming down harder than ever now. Need to get myself a garage built in the worst way.

Ironwood · « **Reply #43 on:** June 21, 2009, 09:28:23 pm »

Diito, on the better work space, many of my truck, car, tractor projects occur outside $:-\$ . Have you ever looked into a truss arch style building/ tent. Some are very nice and inexpensive (not to mention sometimes non taxable)

Ironwood

Coon · « **Reply #44 on:** June 22, 2009, 02:28:14 am »

Yes I have thought about those types of buildings in the past but..... money is a little to tight right now with paying a mortgage, vehicle payment and utilities. With these types of buildings property taxes will go up nearly as much as with a framed garage around here. Insurance will take a major jump as well. Theft is a big concern in this area too. One of these tent style buildings in town just got cut open a few days back. Four quads, a 14 foot aluminum boat with motor and trailer a numerous tools got ripped off. The guy is having trouble getting his insurance to pay out now so.....

What I need to do is to figure out a way to get around having to use graded lumber. May be able to build one out in the country and move it into town providing that I can prove that is a new building.

Ironwood · « **Reply #45 on:** June 26, 2009, 09:53:55 pm »

"Stamped" lumber, what a crock of @!!@#$. That crap just never ends, wish the gov't would pull there heads out of our @#$es and forget trying to see what we had for dinner.

Sorry, soap box moment!

Ironwood

maple flats · « **Reply #46 on:** June 27, 2009, 09:03:03 pm »

In New York State we are allowed to use rough cut as long as the sawyer (me) signs a statement that it is number 2 or better. I have never had a problem because if anything looks bad like what the big box stores with "graded Lumber" sell, I cut it into 20" lengths and use it in the maple syrup evaporator for fire wood. Check it out, you may have a similar law or regulation. Locally our codes enforcement officer did not know until I supplied a copy of the regulation (or law?) for him to use and a completed form, signed by yours truly.

woodmills1 · « **Reply #47 on:** June 28, 2009, 07:08:09 am »

we have a similar law in NH, ours requires training from UNH, but with all of the budget cuts the training is not being offered. I took the training course years ago and it was fun to talk with other sawyers from around the state. when the talk turned to what interesting stuff have you hit, a sawyer from my town "won" when he said, thats nothing I hit a musket once!

maple flats · « **Reply #48 on:** July 06, 2009, 07:09:57 pm »

I hope NY doesn't find out NH requires training or they will start to, also with no classes offered.

Coon · « **Reply #49 on:** July 07, 2009, 12:48:48 pm »

Hey guys and gals, I just thought it was time for an update. Well not much in physical appearance has been done but I have been out gathering and removing parts off old farm equipment and such. I have gotten a hold of a bunch more steel. Didn't even have to load it myself.... the wood ticks did it all for me.

Heck, I didn't even have to walk myself.

I don't have any pics this time but I can tell you that I will be doing a whole lot of cutting and preparing to weld. I am sure the next time I am on days off there will be plenty of pics as I weld.

I even realized that I have already have the material for the grapple arch for the back of the machine. This will be removable and be bolted on.

Coon.

Coon · « **Reply #50 on:** July 23, 2009, 11:35:20 am »

Got another load of welding material home yesterday. I got a prototype of an ultralight helicopter (Vortech) that I was building a few years back. The original copter plans called for it to be built out of aluminum with a small engine. This one was to have a 3 cylinder geo engine on it and was built out of steel. Was way too heavy so we scrapped it. Still have another one that we built with a steel frame and smaller engine that actually works. The one I am scrapping out has been begging to be used for something. Just so happens it will work for what I am doing. Petty theft has been occurring to my steel supply I had stored out at the farm so i had to get it before I lose it.

DoubleD · « **Reply #51 on:** August 02, 2009, 11:34:43 am »

Hey mate glad to see you back here, the project looks good I'd like to hear more about it

Davide

Coon · « **Reply #52 on:** August 02, 2009, 12:55:27 pm »

Well, the project is slow going thats for sure. I am currently on days off and hoping I can get some more done. I have a whole pile of material to prep and get ready for welding as soon as the yard work is caught up. Hopefully that will be today.

I could be home for as long as 10 days or so as we are running out of land for manure application as the haying is slow due to rain. If so I should have a chance to get quite a bit done on the project. Will post some updates as progress happens.

News:

Author Topic: Small Tracked Skidder and Grapple Log Trailer. (Read 10408 times)