Author Topic: sap stain (Read 1935 times)

Dan_Shade · « **on:** May 23, 2009, 06:01:31 am »

I sawed a batch of red oak last june, it came off the mill very nice, but the sap stained as it was air drying.

any suggestions to keeping this from happening in the future?

beenthere · « **Reply #1 on:** May 23, 2009, 08:21:25 am »

Dan
Did the red oak stay tight dead-stacked for any length of time before stickering it for air drying?

Dan_Shade · « **Reply #2 on:** May 23, 2009, 08:37:03 am »

it was sticked the same day.

LeeB · « **Reply #3 on:** May 23, 2009, 06:46:22 pm »

Saw it in November?

beenthere · « **Reply #4 on:** May 23, 2009, 08:34:55 pm »

Can you get some good pics showing the stain?

Dan_Shade · « **Reply #5 on:** May 24, 2009, 10:18:15 am »

is that viewable?

the board on the bottom is really bad, you can see the sap that's grayed on the other three boards.

Kelvin · « **Reply #6 on:** May 31, 2009, 11:36:38 am »

Howdy,
I only have gotten this from trees that were either one standing dead or 2 the logs sat more than a couple of months in the summer. Red oak goes south real fast in log form. Perfect blend of sugar content and open telulouse, the reason you can take a piece of red oak say 6" long and put one end in a glass of water and blow bubbles through it. The fungus uses the same pathways. White oak pores are closed off so its quite rot resistant though closely related to red oak. You don't see the staining in the rough lumber till its planed b/c its somewhat subtle. If its only in the sap, i would say it could still be the same thing. It looks like the heartwood has some staining as well to me. If the red oak isn't nice and pink over the whole board, but has some darker colored sections, that is the stain, and i can't sell that once it happens so i won't buy any red oak logs older than 3 months unless they were frozen.
Good luck,
KP

woodmills1 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 31, 2009, 09:22:06 pm »

I would agree with kelivin, I only see that in older red oak logs. most people will not notice the difference, but my barrel maker customer was quick to say one time years ago................you cut some old oak then................

Dan_Shade · « **Reply #8 on:** May 31, 2009, 09:29:28 pm »

I don't think this was down long

maybe a few weeks

How long does it take? As I said earlier, i sawed it in June of 2008

woodmills1 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 31, 2009, 09:31:28 pm »

was the tree dying/dead?

Dan_Shade · « **Reply #10 on:** May 31, 2009, 09:39:22 pm »

it was removed for an addition.

How long does it normally take for stain to set in? It could have been down for a bit before I sawed it, i don't really know. this is somewhat frustrating, the sapwood was fine when it was sawn, i have pictures of it from that day.

Kelvin · « **Reply #11 on:** June 01, 2009, 07:29:33 am »

I've gotten red oak fresh cut and had it start staining in a couple of months from summer heat. If its alive when cut i'd say you have a good month or so before it starts, though i'd say that looks like 3 months plus of hot weather around me. Touching ground? big mills either keep logs in a pond or sprinkle 24/7 to keep this from happening. Can't afford to spend so much time and find out this happens at the end. I'll tell you i'm mad when i saw, stack, dry, and plane and find out i've got firewood. The only logs that are harder are maple (mills only take when sawn in winter and within a week of cutting, local veneer buyer actually refridgerates the logs) and other light woods like ash where any sticker stain will be evident.

I think you will avoid this by cutting within a few weeks of dropping the tree. The sooner the pinker and nicer the lumber looks. Its not making money sitting around in log form. I'm always nervous about nice big red oak logs people call me about. I ask "when were they taken down?" oh, a couple of months ago. Now do you go through the effort and waste your time? I got some really amazing veneer grade logs from the city a few years ago that they had saved to chip (30" dia.) to make "nicer chips" finally they broke their grinder with them and said i could have them after they held them all summer. I couldn't resist taking them as they were picture perfect logs. Man what a waste. After planing they were all streaked, and i even quarter sawed them! I haven't sold one board and i can't bring myself to give them away so they are still taking up space 4 years later. the butt log was even curly.

KP

woodmills1 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 01, 2009, 07:55:58 am »

I no longer sell any oak logs in log form, I keep them all. Horses, dump trucks and trailers can't tell an old oak board from a fresh one.

here is a shot of a customers truck. I cut the entire side oak from one log.

Dodgy Loner · « **Reply #13 on:** June 01, 2009, 01:49:16 pm »

This may be somewhat beside the point, but I actually love the look of oak flooring with stain and mineral streaks in it. I've been cutting up lots of oak to remodel my kitchen with, and some of it is beautiful, clear, blemish-free wood that I will use to make the cabinets. The stuff with stain will become my floors. I've seen enough "rustic oak" flooring to know that there is a market for that kind of wood.

Dan_Shade · « **Reply #14 on:** June 01, 2009, 02:02:04 pm »

yeah, but it looks like crap!

I guess when I sell the house, i'll have to market the "salvaged hardwood floors"

Dodgy Loner · « **Reply #15 on:** June 01, 2009, 02:28:18 pm »

The boards in the picture don't look bad to me. I suggest you do a google search for "rustic oak flooring" and see what turns up. It may not be your cup of tea, but that doesn't mean you can't sell it. That's about what my floors will look like. I guess they will look like crap

.

Lanier_Lurker · « **Reply #16 on:** June 01, 2009, 02:37:37 pm »

Yep, the Bruce oak hardwood floor I am putting down has some pieces in it with mineral staining. My wife complains about them, but I think most of them look pretty good.

Dan_Shade · « **Reply #17 on:** June 01, 2009, 03:45:25 pm »

eh, yeah, well, I don't like spalt either.

it's not even good firewood!

WDH · « **Reply #18 on:** June 01, 2009, 07:59:27 pm »

Dan,

What you have looks like bacterial stain. It is not uncommon in red oak. Down here, red oaks growing in wet soil conditions are prone to get it.

Dan_Shade · « **Reply #19 on:** June 01, 2009, 08:15:45 pm »

Is there any way to prevent it in the future?

(other than paint?)

woodmills1 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 01, 2009, 08:19:41 pm »

bacterial stain would be the stinky cheese oak

Kelvin · « **Reply #21 on:** June 02, 2009, 11:32:30 am »

prevention if it is growing with it would be impossible but otherwise saw as soon as possible, store in the shade, don't keep very long in hot weather. Keep off the ground. Don't cut dead red oak.

WDH · « **Reply #22 on:** June 03, 2009, 11:19:10 am »

Bacteria enter the tree through the roots, so if the tree has it, you cannot prevent it.

Gblombo · « **Reply #23 on:** June 26, 2009, 09:23:01 am »

How was the air flow around the lumber during the drying process? If it was not good, you could end up with problems in color almost as bad as if it were tight piled the entire time.

I've seen lumber on sticks next to a barn with no airflow that did not stand a chance to have the moisture blown off the boards.

Tom · « **Reply #24 on:** June 26, 2009, 07:35:33 pm »

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Gblumbo.

metalspinner · « **Reply #25 on:** June 26, 2009, 09:10:35 pm »

I know those of you in the lumber biz don't like that mineral discoloration, but I prefer it. Perfectly pink red oak to me is just not very attractive, but get a bit more color going in it and it peaks my interest.

I bet you guys can find a customer for that special red oak.

shad · « **Reply #26 on:** July 05, 2009, 01:29:19 pm »

You can Google, "Elder Process", its a patented process that uses a steam boiler kiln to prevent the staining. It was invented by a man in Jasper Texas. There may be more info on the Texas Forestry website.

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Author Topic: sap stain (Read 1935 times)