Author Topic: Dodge- Cummins 98- 01 Watch out for weak block (Read 3515 times)

Banjo picker · « **on:** May 09, 2009, 08:59:11 pm »

This problem has been mentioned before briefly...But if you have a diesel engine made in those years (possibly 02 as well) look out if you use it to pull heavy loads. The engine in question has a one inch casting number 53 on the left front just above the oil pan. There were about 100,000 of those blocks made in Brazil , they have a weak water jacket on the right side just under the freeze plugs. When you use this engine to pull heavy loads that water jacket will crack , and grow.

Some have said this is a weeping. BS It won't weep if it aint cracked. Mine got to be over 10 inches. Yes I contacted Cummins and I have never heard back from them. This is my second Cummins Dodge, but probably my last.

Can anyone spell class action suit. I think this desirves one. But I need a truck so I bought a block from a junk yard and traded some sawing of some timbers for a barn for the labor to put it back together. Still gona be out several hundred, but not too bad from some of the other stories I have heard where folks were out 5 or 6 thousand to put one back on the road after Cummins gave them the block, but they had to do the work in their shop.

Mainly I just wanted to let you folks that might be thinking of buying a used Dodge to be on the lookout for that 53 block. Think twice before you buy one. Mine only has 132,000 on it now while its gettig redone. And yes I know some of you are thinking I knew ole Tim was pulling too much of a load with that one ton, but if I only wanted to pull a tiny trailer with a few logs or what ever, I would have used the wifes Expedition, At least it did pull a 28 ft. travel trailer across the Rocky Mts. and back, and its still going strong with over 200, 000 miles. Guess I should have got a Power Stroke. Not nearly as much of a Dodge man as I once was. Tim

WH_Conley · « **Reply #1 on:** May 09, 2009, 09:04:15 pm »

I was not happy with the paint on my 94, can't complain about the engine.

Everybody I have talked to said I have the better engine.

Banjo picker · « **Reply #2 on:** May 09, 2009, 09:12:48 pm »

WH I got a 94 setting out here right now , it was what sold me on Cummis. it has 240,000 or so th on it. It leaks a little oil but no biggie. The paint is as you said,, shot, but its a 15 year old truck. The 94 is a 2500 2wd , I wish the 99 3500 had been as good. Tim

Corley5 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 09, 2009, 09:53:44 pm »

Mine's an 02. No leaks yet and pulled plenty of big loads. Guess I better check out that number.

Banjo picker · « **Reply #4 on:** May 10, 2009, 08:32:00 am »

Quote from: Corley5 on May 09, 2009, 09:53:44 pm

Mine's an 02. No leaks yet and pulled plenty of big loads. Guess I better check out that number.

Not all are the 53's --some were made in Mexico which don't have the 53 casting # and are supposed to be much stronger. If you got one in those year ranges i would check it out. A google search will show where to look for the casting #. Front of the motor on left side just above the oil pan. Hope you don't have the 53 . Tim

Corley5 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 10, 2009, 09:08:35 am »

I'll check it out for sure. The truck was assembled in Mexico but who knows where the engine was shipped in from

Dave Shepard · « **Reply #6 on:** May 10, 2009, 09:58:40 am »

I'm pretty sure mines a 53 block. 167,00 and 500HP, and no troubles yet. I do know that some of them crack. I had thought that they were being replaced under warranty.

Banjo picker · « **Reply #7 on:** May 10, 2009, 11:21:48 am »

Quote from: Dave Shepard on May 10, 2009, 09:58:40 am

I'm pretty sure mines a 53 block. 167,00 and 500HP, and no troubles yet. I do know that some of them crack. I had thought that they were being replaced under warranty.

When I got the truck it had 50,000 on it and it was under warranty. It has never had any modifications done to it to my knowledge. I called Cummins about it they told me they would run it past their Dodge rep. I guess the Dodge rep didn't have much to say as I haven't heard from them.

If your block has the casting # you got one, if it don't your ok. Not all in the noted years came from Brazil the Mexican made ones were much better. Did I mention the dash is busted all to ---- ? Oh well sux to be me I guess

Tim

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #8 on:** May 10, 2009, 01:29:22 pm »

Quote

Did I mention the dash is busted all to ---- ?

Did you know you can buy a "Shell" to recover MOST dashes

Been a few hunnerd years since we had that business, but, find an AUTO upholsterer and they might should have a supplier. We did probably a bunch of car ones, and maybe a pickemup or 3. Can't remember.

It is a vacuum molded plastic shell, in your basic black color. Glue it on with Silicone caulking. Paint it with Plastic or Vinyl paint. before applying

Ironwood · « **Reply #9 on:** May 10, 2009, 05:26:25 pm »

I got a "carpet "cover to protect my dash in a 2000 F-550. I plan on driving this thing until I am old and gray. I dont want to have to replace the dash.

If it's any consolation, the later model than mine (6.0 and 6.4 PSD) are full of engine toubles, although not block, usually head bolts and turbo's. Mine is a 7.3 turbo which is known to rot out the thin sheet metal oil pan (got a lift the engine partially to replace it). I guess there is alway SOME issue. I had not heard of the Cummin's block issue before.

Ironwoood

Banjo picker · « **Reply #10 on:** May 10, 2009, 06:46:48 pm »

Thanks guys for the info on the dash. If I get it back and its sound i'll try to take care of that dash problem. I too had hopes of driving it till I was old and gray.

Tim

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #11 on:** May 10, 2009, 06:51:15 pm »

Those carpet covers are nice, but, sure collect fine dust and dirt. We sold a few of those, also.

Banjo picker · « **Reply #12 on:** May 10, 2009, 07:53:45 pm »

It would have to be the shell type because pieces have fallen off to the tune that you could get a baseball through or maybe a softball. All started with a tiny crack --the ole 94 's dash still looks good. They must of changed the composition of them, probably samed 25 or 30 cents on each one. Tim

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #13 on:** May 10, 2009, 08:50:31 pm »

Can't remember the name now, but, in a newer car, you get a slick film on the inside of the windshield. That's the vapors of PLASTISISORS ?? that are evaporating from the plastic-vinyl dashes.

The Carpet type dash covers will prevent that from happening. Direct sunshine on the glass causes that vaporization.

It's roughly the same stuff as in Armor-All.

DanG · « **Reply #14 on:** May 10, 2009, 09:45:58 pm »

My Cummins 5.9 is a '93 model and it is labeled at 160 hp. I wonder if this cracking problem has anything to do with them squeezing 500hp out of a 160hp engine?

Your dash problem may have something to do with the color. Some of'em hold up better than others. I had an '82 Oldsmobile with the "butterscotch" colored interior. Everything in it disintergrated, including the steering wheel, in less than 10 years. Later had a Buick of the same year with a blue interior and it was perfect after 20 years.

Dave Shepard · « **Reply #15 on:** May 10, 2009, 09:49:38 pm »

The coolant leaks are specific to the 53 blocks. Seldom is there a block failure in even the very highest output engines. The only one I know of in fact is when a truck was on a dyno run and he hit too many stages of nitrous all at once. This was in a truck that was a farm stock truck one day, and pulled a 900 rwhp dyno run the next. The truck continued to run, despite having bled off all of its vital fluids.

rebocardo · « **Reply #16 on:** May 10, 2009, 11:14:32 pm »

I think up till 1999 the injector pumps can only be sourced rebuilt from Dodge and they come with a special circuit board on top of the pump, so they can not be easily repaired. I think I posted before it was either $1500 or $2000 rebuilt from Dodge, plus the core charge. Reason for mentioning this if you are at the junkyard where you got the block, it wouldn't be a bad idea to grab the pump from a Cummins if it was cheap enough. Takes a special tool to set it up too.

Ironwood · « **Reply #17 on:** May 10, 2009, 11:18:58 pm »

The lighter colored dashes may allow UV to pentrate deeper into the plastic. This is why black plastic sheets last longer than clear ones left outside in the sun. FYI / IMHO.

Ironwood

Gary_C · « **Reply #18 on:** May 11, 2009, 12:15:25 am »

There can be many reasons including temperature extremes and sunlight for cracking in dashes and steering wheels. But FDH is correct on the primary cause being the loss of the plasticizers in the material. Unfortunately there is one plasticizer that is resistant to heat and another that is resistant to UV light in sunlight.

As far as color, black would be expected to be the worst color as it will absorb all light and thus get much hotter in the sunlight. White or other light colors should be more resistant as it reflects more light and heat. So if black film seems more resistant than clear, it must be because of built in UV resistance and not just color as black will absorb the most light and get hotter than other colors.

Banjo picker · « **Reply #19 on:** May 11, 2009, 09:06:12 am »

Quote from: DanG on May 10, 2009, 09:45:58 pm

My Cummins 5.9 is a '93 model and it is labeled at 160 hp. I wonder if this cracking problem has anything to do with them squeezing 500hp out of a 160hp engine?

Dang that may be the case in some instances, but not this one. When I got the truck several of the guys in my circle were putting the chips in to boost hp etc. , and I didn't because I thought it would be better to wait a few years to see what the result of the extra load that was going to put on the motor. Seems that when these 53 blocks were cast the mold on the right side would rise just a touch, resulting in a slightly thinner spot in the right side water jacket. Someone that knowes more about casting could probably shed more light on it that that simple explanation. But this engine is stock from Cummins.

I guess I am living up to what i read on one of Tom's bits of wisdom I read from his web site last night. That if a customer is satisfied he will tell two people, and if he is not he will tell twenty. I believe I have spread the word much farther than that.

If anybody on here buys a used Cummins and the engine cracks on them--they have only themselves to blame.

This truck never quit running as Dave alluded to--no problem if you want to add a gallon and a half of water ever 100 or so miles. That would get a bit expensive in the winter don't you think. And if you push it too far , you WILL have engine damage.

I gave Cummins several weeks to at least tell me something,

before I aired the dirty laundry. But now i will tell anyone that will listen. Facts is facts, and when I get the old block back , I am going to set in a prominent place at the mill where it can be a constance sorce of conversation to any that come by and ask what the block is there for. Tim

Onthesauk · « **Reply #20 on:** May 11, 2009, 11:13:38 am »

I went through this with my 1999. Started leaking water at a little over 68,000 miles. Went round and round with Dodge; I abused the truck, I didn't do regular maintenance, they had never heard of this problem before, (this despite the fact there were entire web sites dedicated to the problem. Finally called Cummins, gave them the serial number and they agreed to pay for parts, I pay for labor, in their shop. Had the lift pump replaced at the same time, (another issue in those years,) for a total of about $5,500.

As far as I'm concerned, the entire "Customer Care" program at Dodge is designed to avoid paying any claims. I love the engine, I hate Dodge trucks. Wish Ford put them in their trucks. Actually what I want is a small Cummins diesel in a 1/2 ton Ford pickup, should get about 30 mpg.

Dave Shepard · « **Reply #21 on:** May 11, 2009, 07:30:23 pm »

The Bosch VP44 is available all over the place, now. I've seen them as low as $1000 plus core.

pappy19 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 11, 2009, 08:03:58 pm »

I loved my 2002 F-350 7.3 Powerstroke, but when I sold my 5th wheel, I didn't need it anymore. I ordered a 2008 F-250 with the V-10. It's bullet proof. I still haul heavy once in a while and with the new Ford Torqueshift tranny, and a 4.10 rear, it does real good. If you think about how many Class A and Class C motor homes have the Ford V-10 in them and you never hear of any issues with them, that's why I got one. Yes, the V-10 had a spark plug problem from 1999-2000, but they added some additional threads and no more problems. My 2008 V-10 is rated at 370 hp and a replacement engine is less money than Cummins injectors and a pump. Not to mention all of the other diesel hassels. No thanks, I have gone back to a gasser and love it.

Banjo picker · « **Reply #23 on:** May 11, 2009, 08:38:51 pm »

I am still not sure what i will do with it when I get it back. I had to have a heavy hauler so I up the tag on my 87 international 1700 series. Took of 84 6 x 6 's today it pulls like a champ, just no creature comforts. And it s a little more trouble to load--side by side instead of inline with the Dodge and trailer. I just about have to have something in that cat. to pull the horse tralier in and out of some of the places we go. So I guess I'll keep it , drop the tag requirements and use it in limited service.

Quote from: rebocardo on May 10, 2009, 11:14:32 pm

I think up till 1999 the injector pumps can only be sourced rebuilt from Dodge and they come with a special circuit board on top of the pump, so they can not be easily repaired. I think I posted before it was either $1500 or $2000 rebuilt from Dodge, plus the core charge. Reason for mentioning this if you are at the junkyard where you got the block, it wouldn't be a bad idea to grab the pump from a Cummins if it was cheap enough. Takes a special tool to set it up too.

If the pump goes ill probably just burn it. Tim

Dave Shepard · « **Reply #24 on:** May 11, 2009, 08:45:29 pm »

One of the towns around here switched from the diesel to the V-10 for their plow trucks, they are very happy with them. Can you really get a factory V-10 crate motor for $1500? Wow!

Ironwood · « **Reply #25 on:** May 12, 2009, 04:57:52 am »

Pappy,

Yes, I hear you on the gasser. The older diesels (pre ULSD) are a bit of a pain, w/ lubricity additive and winter anti gel also. Do love the chassis on the 550, haul nearly all the time, the truck is 12,500 lb empty

(army duece bed, crane, chains, blah blah). When I sold my 1996 F-350 460 cid, I took the bed off and put it on the 550 delivered it to the new owner cab chassis

WOW did that thing run like a race car

AND quiet!!!

Ironwood

Banjo picker · « **Reply #26 on:** August 21, 2009, 07:42:04 am »

Heres an Update on this one....I got the truck back finally.....

The block the mech. found was the wrong one....Turns out its a 03 one year too new....Anybody need one....Any way by the time we got this far. its too late to turn back....S0000 he knew a shop that speciliazes (sp) in wielding blocks and we had her wielded up....Boy did I hate to go that route.

But by now I feel like I'm in a corner....The guy took forever seems like to wield it up.....I looked under where the crack was....an you can not tell where it was....I just hope its as structually sound as it is pretty....

I just used it to pull my dual axel tandem trailer and my concrete bridge rail forms to Decatur Al...and back this week, and it did fine... I do have a vacum leak some where though as it takes about 4 or 5 min for the AC to start blowing out the right vents....My cruse is not working either....but I know that if the sencer on the transmission is not turned corectly this will stop the cruse...although it may be related to the vacum leak....Going to try to address the vacum leak first.....I though we had a real problem when I first took it out on the road it was very rough when you would acclerate...I drained the fuel filter a couple of times and that has not happened again though. And I didn't give it any quarter for the 600 or so miles we put on it this week... I just hope the wield holds up....I'll keep you informed...

Tim

Ironwood · « **Reply #27 on:** February 25, 2010, 08:14:49 pm »

Bump, Just wanted to see how things were going. I have buddy looking at a used 2000-2002 or so Dodge and I mentioned this thread to him. I have another buddy w/ a 1993-6 (dont remember what he said) 3500 dually dump 4x4. He replaced the injector pump, and a ton of other stuff that normally doesn't go bad on a truck, generally he has liked it but has had some issues. Also, evidentally the front 4x4 axle goes through some bushings and stuff pretty regular. I guess it is always something.

Ironwood

Banjo picker · « **Reply #28 on:** February 25, 2010, 08:41:28 pm »

Ironwood thanks for the reminder...I did say I would keep you updated..which I haven't ...but here goes....the weild helped but didn't completly stop the leak of coolant from the block, so I treated it with K&W Permanent Head Gasket &Block Repair (in the lime green bottle) ( it is a real pain to go through the procedures)....I did it once and it helped slow it so much that I bought a second quart an run it through two more times...You have to take out the thermostate out, and I also by passed my heater core so as not to create any potential problems there....then I put in a pint of copper bars leak (you can leave it in with your antifreeze) and now after all that I have it down to a very small leak....For ex...I took off work yesterday to help my youngest son Bobby on a job he had bid....We hooked up the gooseneck dual axel tandem trailer (about 5,000# or so ) loaded a Case 580 K extendahoe(somewhere in the neighborhood of 17,000#) and pulled them through some of north Al. hills about 70 or so miles...when I took off the radiator cap I added about 1/2 gal of antifreeze.....I guess I can live with that. GCVWR some where at 29,000#...

Tim

stonebroke · « **Reply #29 on:** February 25, 2010, 08:45:50 pm »

I had a block welded once on a skid steer , when we were all done welding it we smeared JB weld on it kind of like bondo. Don't know how long it will last though, It has only been fifteen years.

Stonebroke

Onthesauk · « **Reply #30 on:** November 01, 2011, 09:08:32 pm »

---Update---

I received a notice yesterday in regards to a settlement with Cummins over their 53 engine blocks. I've got the claims package, (going to take a mass of paper to complete,) and the maximum payment is $500 and may not make any payments for another year or two. Enough money that I guess I'll work my way through the claim.

It's a shame. My understanding is that Cummins sold the motors to Dodge with no guarantee. Dodge fought the claims tooth and nail and Cummins ends up picking up the loss, probably because of deeper pockets at this point.

Dave Shepard · « **Reply #31 on:** November 01, 2011, 09:24:17 pm »

Got my notice today. Don't know if I'll bother, but I'll have to read up on it. Don't know how they are going to fix it for $500, and they sure aren't going to replace it for that.

Banjo picker · « **Reply #32 on:** November 02, 2011, 05:32:20 pm »

Mine is still leaking...I bought a case of antifreeze to hopefully get me throught the winter...In the warm weather I just use water ...can plug it up while at the house, but not at work and even then I would be worried that the radiator would freeze up in cold weather....Any time somebody starts bragging about a Cummins , I give them an ear full...

Tim

tyb525 · « **Reply #33 on:** November 02, 2011, 05:54:39 pm »

Each and every truck has it's issues. GM has cracked heads, Ford has it's blown spark plugs, Dodge has it's cracked Cummins blocks. I think the number of people who love their particular brand evens out with those who can't say anything but bad about them. Guess that's how business goes

Dave Shepard · « **Reply #34 on:** November 02, 2011, 06:35:05 pm »

So Cummins gets a bad rap because of one problem? Cummins has the least TSBs of any of the big three by a large margin.

Ironwood · « **Reply #35 on:** November 02, 2011, 07:18:20 pm »

Yeah, I am a dyed in the wool Ford guy and you could NOT give me a 6.0. Even the 6.4 is unattractive to me. I have a 7.3 and love it. I also have a V10 "plug spitter" that has not spitted one yet.

All brands have issue, just gotta learn what they are.

Ironwood

Bobus2003 · « **Reply #36 on:** November 02, 2011, 08:46:19 pm »

The 6.4l Powerstroke is a monster.. Yeah in their stock form they only get about 12-13mpg.. but with a EGR/DPF Deletes, and some tuning they are 500+ HP, and upper teens low 20's mpg. My brothers '08 F250 will out do my Modded 7.3l or my 6.0l's.. Though i cant wait to get a '94-'98 12v P-Pump Cummins to put in my '06 6.0l.. Then it will become a beast

Ironwood · « **Reply #37 on:** November 02, 2011, 09:45:35 pm »

Mine are work trucks, 350-550 at 10,000-12,000 empty, so those mileages are not possible for me. My last 550 7.3 with a SuperChip on lowest setting and 3:91's got 11-12 loaded or empty.
Ironwood

Banjo picker · « **Reply #38 on:** November 02, 2011, 10:54:26 pm »

Quote from: Dave Shepard on November 02, 2011, 06:35:05 pm

So Cummins gets a bad rap because of one problem? Cummins has the least TSBs of any of the big three by a large margin.

I gave them a chance to make it right...all I asked for was a bare block..do dice..Tim

Dale Hatfield · « **Reply #39 on:** November 04, 2011, 07:21:28 pm »

Got mine yesterday. Their is a product called stitch weld or lock cant remember. It has been used around here for a bunch of cracked 53 blocks. Ya drill a hole and screw these plugs in in the crack line.
My big grip with 2 of my dodges is paint and rust. For the love of metal bumpers why do I have holes in them. Im sure their are 1970 ish trucks in the junk yard that still have bumpers with out holes.

shelbycharger400 · « **Reply #40 on:** November 04, 2011, 07:28:27 pm »

dale... the 70's trucks have thick bumpers ( my 78 dodge dose, as dose my 68 chebby) (where you could use a bumper to tow )
newer trucks have the 5 mph crash bumpers...ie paper thin

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Author Topic: Dodge- Cummins 98- 01 Watch out for weak block (Read 3515 times)