Black Ash Cross

[Bill_G]

Anyone ever hear of Black or Brown Ash crossing with White Ash?

[Dodgy Loner]

I've never heard of it, but it would be more surprising to me if it couldn't happen.  Do you think you've found one?  Hybrids occur very commonly within same genus.  Intergeneric hybrids (hybrids between two species that are in different genera) are much rarer, but not as rare as you'd think in the horticultural trade.

[ID4ster]

Check this site out:

http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/silvics_manual/volume_2/fraxinus/americana.htm

According to the authors a cross between white ash and other ashes is extremely rare. I'd agree with that assessment given that the two species don't occupy the same ecological niche and are generally found quite a ways apart. Anything is possible but in this case unlikely. If you really think you've got something you'd need to bring a sample to an experts attention.

[SwampDonkey]

White ash, green ash and black ash can be all growing side by side on the same site. I have black ash and white ash all over my ground and I have never noticed any hybridization. Black ash flowers a bit differently to. It has the ability to produce perfect or imperfect flowers and it can also produce separate male and female. This happens all on one tree. White ash and green ash is either a male or female tree. Black ash is flowering now and white ash hasn't budged yet. I have a thread on black ash I started a couple days ago, and some folks thought the pollen flowers were insects.

Type 19 gray birch-red maple is full of black ash, it's on the wetter end of the scale for hardwood. Unless of course someone has a more detailed description of what constitutes Type 19. Up here, balsam poplar and northern white cedar can also be present.

[Bill_G]

Let me give you more info. I found these trees on a lot I was logging in West central NH. The lot was sloping ground and fairly damp. The trees were scattered over the whole 60 acres. They have all the appearance of White Ash, except on some of the trees the bark was soft and flaky and could be rubbed off by hand,like Black Ash. On the other trees the bark was rock hard like White Ash, and they would be growing right beside each other. All had White Ash leaves, stem on the end of each. I make Abenaki Black Ash baskets so I am always looking for good Black Ash. I cut one and took it home, it pounded well and the rings separated well also. The wood was excellent quality, very moist and flexible, unlike White Ash. Black Ash is really the only wood that has these qualities. So I am perplexed. They also had a lot of white wood, unlike Black Ash. There were also a few Black Ash on the lot, but not many and nowhere near the size of the ones that looked like White Ash. There were no Green Ash on the lot. There was a lot of Fur growing there also.

[ID4ster]

SD,
I stand corrected. In my neck of the woods black ash is a riparian area tree while the white ash is higher up on better drained soils. In the end though I doubt that they'd cross unless there's some freak spring  weather that would allow both to flower at the same time.

[SwampDonkey]

Bill, do you have an ash buyer locally that mills for tool handles. You can see a lot of diversity in white and green ash in one of those log yards. Garant here does tool handles and they don't buy black ash. It might help to understand the situation.

The situation between white and green ash is the same as with white and yellow birch. You can't tell the difference by the grain of the wood. But the weight is something else. I can tell when someone tosses a mess of green ash in the wood pile. It's light as aspen or elm when dried, but white ash is more hefty stuff.