Author Topic: bandmill question (Read 2447 times)

sawthemlogs · « **on:** April 11, 2009, 08:52:46 pm »

i have noticed that a lot of bandmills that i have seen the blade is 90 degrees to the bed rails, my friend has amill but his is set at more of an angle. i questioned him why it was at a angle,his resonse was it pushes threw easier...are all manual feeds at a angle ? does it make adifference / or is this just aselling gimmick

Tom · « **Reply #1 on:** April 11, 2009, 10:25:39 pm »

My opinion is that it is a selling gimmick. When a fellow builds a saw, or modifies it, sometimes he comes up with some really strange ideas. The folks that like this design say that the entry into the log is softer and some tout that it cuts faster. I don't see how it can because the angled blade is having to remove more material than a blade that is 90°.

Still, It's just my opinion.

Chico · « **Reply #2 on:** April 12, 2009, 02:48:46 am »

Totally agree Tom when the saw is full in the cut it is pulling more dust as the width of cut is longer The only thing I can see is maybe you won't have a s much deviation or(bullheading) because you don't strike the saw on the log fully and it has time for the body of the saw to get in the cut but this might only be a help for newbies imo once you saw and can feel it in the seat of your britches you know what you can and can;t get away with as far as speeds jmo'
Chico

mike_van · « **Reply #3 on:** April 12, 2009, 06:08:50 am »

It does make a world of difference with a chainsaw though - The more with the grain you hold the bar, the longer, stringier the sawdust will be. Seems to feed easier with the bar at this angle. I'm not sure this would be the same on a bandmill, it would narrow the throat [capacity] having the head skewed.

gizmodust · « **Reply #4 on:** April 12, 2009, 06:12:07 am »

In agreement with Tom and Chico. If it were easier to cut on an angle, the vertical bands would have done it long ago. Mine is a manual bandsaw mill and once you get started it only takes about a log and a half and you can feel it. JMO

thecfarm · « **Reply #5 on:** April 12, 2009, 06:27:16 am »

I forgot what brand does that.I have a manual mill and the blade is set up straight.If there was really any benefit to it,all the band saws would be set up like that.I don't think it would cause any problems.just looks odd.

moonhill · « **Reply #6 on:** April 12, 2009, 06:48:22 am »

The birds nest you get form ripping with a chainsaw is due to the chain filed for a cross cut, in part? Band saws are for ripping. If you have ever tried ripping large stock with a hand rip saw you will feel a difference in the angle of the cut, it has to be the proper angle,if the teeth are forced into the end grain it will be much harder, where if you push the hand saw angled back it is much easier. It is like patting a cat the hair has to go one way or the cat won't like it. I see the band cutting square across the cant as the best, most aggressive of either example, a pleasing compromise.

I have never seen a band mill with a skewed band, any pictures?

Tim

ladylake · « **Reply #7 on:** April 12, 2009, 07:20:02 am »

It would make sence that it would push easyier. If put at a 45* angle you'ld probably have to hold it back, but at the loss of cutting width. On a push mill more hook would make it push easyier also. Steve

Ironwood · « **Reply #8 on:** April 12, 2009, 08:16:20 am »

I am sure the "chip" is slightly different. In theory it "could" make a difference, but as stated it has likely been researched by WM, and others. Ones I've seen are yellow (commercially built) and many others that are Amish built.

Ironwood

Bibbyman · « **Reply #9 on:** April 12, 2009, 08:33:04 am »

Mr. Zimmerman with his EZ Boardwalk mill is made that way. I think there is at least one memeber that has one. Maybe a couple.

He's had his mill at a number of shows in this area. This time I found him at the Kentucky Wood Expo - 2006

Haytrader · « **Reply #10 on:** April 12, 2009, 12:04:43 pm »

I am one of those members Bibby.
We have been sawing red cedar and ponderosa pine and one finger will move the mill through the log.
I f you think about it, do you lay a handsaw flat on a board?
I sure like my mill and it will cut a big a log as my tractor can lift.

Bibbyman · « **Reply #11 on:** April 12, 2009, 01:06:36 pm »

Pretty good balancing act!

We’ve visited with Eli a number of times over the years. I think the quality and safety features of his mill has improved over the first ones I seen. The blade was poorly guarded on the first model I seen.

I also see a neat feature for a manual mill in this picture – the ladder like construction in the frame to provide a leverage place to push a log or cant against the back supports.

Haytrader · « **Reply #12 on:** April 12, 2009, 02:02:29 pm »

Yes. We use the ladder all the time.
It also has a couple large stops to flip up when loading a log.
I extended the bed on my saw so it cuts 24' to accomodate some long logs.
Those big long logs are almost impossible to turn by hand so we use the tractor w/pallet forks.
If I had hydraulics to turn the log and level it hmmmmmmmmmm you know that saying.....wish in one hand and.......

Chuck White · « **Reply #13 on:** April 12, 2009, 02:09:54 pm »

The design of this mill really makes a lot of sense!

With the blade at that angle, it can actually pull itself through the log, and if necessary, with very little effort on the sawyers part.

ladylake · « **Reply #14 on:** April 12, 2009, 02:16:10 pm »

If I had a push one I'd want that design. Steve

robnrob2 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 13, 2009, 08:15:45 am »

MY MIll is made by JT Pickle of Southern bandsaws, and it cuts at an angle, I have laid a speed square on the board and checked the marks left by the band and it is set at 5 degrees, thats not a lot but you can tell it tends to pull itself, specially with a fresh band, and I still can get my guides apart 30", thats a wide board, But I dont really think a lot of angle can be to good, because that also effects the hook the of the band in the wood,, anyone else agree, if I'm runnin a 10 degree hook on my band and the saw head is also set at 5 degrees, then isnt it correct to assume, I'm actually cutting with a 15 degree hook angle??

Chico · « **Reply #16 on:** April 13, 2009, 09:03:57 am »

Not in my way of thinking Hook is measured on the saw and regardless of the direction it enters the wood it's still 10 Degrees jmo
Chico

Tom · « **Reply #17 on:** April 13, 2009, 09:22:00 am »

Yeah, I think hook is defined by its relationship to the rest of the band/blade and its direction of travel.

But, ripping teeth can be made to cut excelsior too. The closer you get the teeth to cutting the side of the log in a direction that is parallel to the bark, you will get excelsior. It makes a big mess on a bandmill too.

The little bit of angle that sawheads are engineered by some, I don't think is enough to cut this way, though it is making the tooth approach the wood from more of this angle than one that sawing straight into the butt, or top, of the log.

Before I become to critical about some of these designs not working, I try to remember, first, that the grain in a log isn't always as straight as we think. So, moving the head may favor one direction but not the other. What it doesn't do is make it approach the grain the same way on every log. By the naturre of things, you will hit grain going all kinds of ways regardless of whether your blade is head-on or set at an angle. \

What we have is the ability for us all to try "our thing". If it works, we were right. That doesn't make it wrong.

tcsmpsi · « **Reply #18 on:** April 13, 2009, 10:02:46 am »

Perhaps if I had both type band angles, on equal manual mills, to try equal logs for a while, I might be able to make a determination.

However, with a fresh band, my heavy headed manual mill will 'push with one finger' as well. In fact, in some wood/logs, I have to hold it back rather than push at all, as some knots/grain/density are more conducive to the blade seeking the path of least resistance.

I've noticed some logs, with the end cut on an angle, give the impression of the blade starting in the cut easier, but that is largely due to the blade cutting narrower wood, and in some cases has provided a 'false bravado' to start the cut a little too fast.

The best overall condition I have found to facilitate a bit better blade entry into the end of the log, is to cut a bit off the end to expose fresher wood.

A well shaped and sharpened blade, regardless of the manner of power or position, is the greatest bood to sawing.

Haytrader · « **Reply #19 on:** April 13, 2009, 01:20:29 pm »

tcsmpsi,

We have to hold my saw back a lot, especially with a fresh band. I just didn't say anything about it cause I wasn't sure if ya'all would believe me.

Whether the blade is perpendicular to the log or at an angle, there are x amount of surface square inches to saw with each pass, so in theory, it takes about the same amount of time to make a pass, no matter the relation of the blade to the log.

Tom · « **Reply #20 on:** April 13, 2009, 02:07:18 pm »

Quote

there are x amount of surface square inches to saw with each pass,

I believe that the distance a tooth has to travel in the wood in a single pass is the real measurement. The more wood it goes through the less efficient it becomes. Once the gullet fills with sawdust, it quits cutting and is just a carrier of sawdust. So, the shortest distance it travels in the wood, the more efficient it becomes. It may not be enough time to argue about, then again, it might be. If sawing at an angle, the shortening of the distance at the beginning and end of the log wouldn't make up for the inefficiency in the center. 'Course, if your log was small enough that the gullet never filled, sawing at an angle might be pretty quick.

Haytrader · « **Reply #21 on:** April 13, 2009, 06:01:39 pm »

Tom,

You have a point there. Or maybe two.

It don't really matter as long as any saw saws and the guy (or gal) doin it is enjoying seeing an old log turn into fine lumber. And that is all I got to say about that.

Fil-Dill · « **Reply #22 on:** April 27, 2009, 06:52:37 pm »

I am new to the forum. Just registered last night. Haytrader I was wondering if you liked the EZ sawmill. I talked to Mr. Zimmerman today. They have a new Jr. model out in the last six months that is very resonable price ($3600). It will cut 12' long X 30" diameter. They are going to demo it at the Brady Fairgrounds in Central MO on the 15th and 16th of May. Also without starting a new forum, could someone direct me to a forum for how long cedar logs could lay on the ground before the wood stains. These have been down 18 months and are in a stack. I hate to see them go to waste.

Haytrader · « **Reply #23 on:** April 27, 2009, 09:02:29 pm »

I am very pleased with my mill. It does a great job and has many good features.
I believe if Mr Zimmerman would have a website and do a little more promoting, he would sell many more mills. I truely feel it is the best manual mill made, at least that I am aware of.
I am not an expert on your question about cedar. I have had short cedar logs lay for a couple years and see no deterioration.
I know nothing about the small mill that you mentioned, but I am confident that Mr. Zimmerman's quality of construction is in all he has to offer.

Fil-Dill · « **Reply #24 on:** April 27, 2009, 09:09:31 pm »

I said that wrong about the logs. They are wild cherry.

shinnlinger · « **Reply #25 on:** April 27, 2009, 11:46:42 pm »

HI,

I have never seen an EZ boardwalk mill, but it seems every issue of Farmshow magazine has several farmers raving about theirs. These guys have no problem complaining about Ford 6.0 diesels, Harbor freight tools and Wild Thing Chainsaws, but, like Haytrader, they like their EZ boardwalks if that is worth anything.

News:

Author Topic: bandmill question (Read 2447 times)