Author Topic: The future (Read 4734 times)

moonhill · « **on:** April 07, 2009, 07:01:16 am »

Could this be a peek at the future? Back this winter I had the chance to test a segway while at Epcot in Disney World, it was a short ride and it comes with a learning curve. It may not only be part of our future but GM's inevitable reconstructing.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090407/ap_on_bi_ge/general_motors_segway

Tim

moonhill · « **Reply #1 on:** April 07, 2009, 10:01:40 pm »

I only caught bits of Rush's show today, but as usual on such an item, he shot it down. I think it can have a place.

Tim

pineywoods · « **Reply #2 on:** April 07, 2009, 10:39:13 pm »

They have a major problem--people---. Users tend to ignore the low battery warnings. When the batteries run down, you get dumped on your keister.

metalspinner · « **Reply #3 on:** April 08, 2009, 08:09:31 am »

I took the short trip on the Segue at Epcot, as well. If I lived in NYC or the like, I would have one.

Quote

Users tend to ignore the low battery warnings. When the batteries run down, you get dumped on your keister.

Piney, sometimes the best lessons you learn in life are learned the hard way.

We learn to fill the gas tank when the little light flashes, recharging the battery shouldn't be too much different. The battery life is 12hrs, i believe.

stonebroke · « **Reply #4 on:** April 08, 2009, 08:14:16 am »

Too bad Segways are illegal in NYC.

Stonebroke

Raider Bill · « **Reply #5 on:** April 08, 2009, 09:19:06 am »

Largo Police use them here for "hood" patrol. There's a dealership just up the road in clearwater.

moonhill · « **Reply #6 on:** April 09, 2009, 09:53:37 pm »

Glenn Beck even mentioned this today on his show, it's as if they (talk radio) are being fed some info and are requested to make comments on some items. Glenn is a big supporter of GM, and his comments were somewhat disapproving.

As for the segway running out of power and dumping the rider, I'm under the impression it would shut down before it would malfunction. Once accustom to it's actions it is quite maneuverable. A larger battery in the Puma would be an improvement, I could then make it to town and back on one charge.

Tim

Sprucegum · « **Reply #7 on:** April 09, 2009, 10:58:28 pm »

I have not yet seen one navigate a snow drift - not even a small one.

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #8 on:** April 10, 2009, 06:56:09 am »

It doesn't look like its much more than a fair weather type of transport. I have never seen a Segway used anywhere. It was supposed to revolutionize the way we get around. It hasn't.

Basically, this is like an electric rickshaw. How big of a market is there for rickshaws?

moonhill · « **Reply #9 on:** April 10, 2009, 07:18:10 am »

Sprucegum, that is because you live in the wrong climate. Here is a link to a future city in the great state of Florida. The Segway can be use year round with no snow or ice issues. They do make a version with ATV tires on it, the narrow type found on the front, I bet it would maneuver through some snow, this would cut it travel distance down, it shouldn't be a problem in Florida or any where in warmer weather. They make a 4 wheel version as well, it goes up stairs, I imagine it would work well with a handicapped driver, allowing access to more locations.

Here is the link, a solar powered city, self contained. I wonder if it will be in the shape of a circle?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090409/us_time/08599189030800

This topic does not have to focus on the Puma, and what is up with the skepticism? Let's use some imagination, dream a little, the future is coming and what does it look like? Are you ready for it. Without innovation and trial we will not advance. There is technology out there and it is not being use.

Ron, that is because you are looking at how our cities are set up today. How often do you or any of us travel for silly reasons, milk, that one bolt and nut you don't have, 5 gallons of gas, to take the youngster to ball practice any number of reasons you don't need a 7 passenger mini van. It may even travel on auto pilot, you could read a book or take in the scenery.

Tim

bandmiller2 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 10, 2009, 07:24:14 am »

Segway log hauller has tracks insted of wheels.Frank C.

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #11 on:** April 10, 2009, 09:54:10 am »

Quote from: moonhill on April 10, 2009, 07:18:10 am

Ron, that is because you are looking at how our cities are set up today. How often do you or any of us travel for silly reasons, milk, that one bolt and nut you don't have, 5 gallons of gas, to take the youngster to ball practice any number of reasons you don't need a 7 passenger mini van. It may even travel on auto pilot, you could read a book or take in the scenery.

Tim

Now you're talking lifestyle changes. I've pretty much done those on a personal level. If I need that nut or bolt, it can wait until I go out the next time. Same goes for gas, milk or anything else. And I don't have a 7 passenger van. Everything is compact. But, I know you weren't talking to me directly.

I've often wondered why we don't have a second level on our streets where we could run some sort of an electric transit system. My vision would be to have something similar to the third rail type of train system. You could even go with a maglev type system.

Make the vehicles small so they can hold only a few people, or a few parcels. Punch in a few coordinates to where you want to be sent, and let the computer do the rest. No driver needed, and the computer could keep safe distances between vehicles. Speeds would be faster. Batteries wouldn't be needed since you're running off the grid. Smaller vehicles would mean a lighter framework and easier construction of the highways.

The problem with mass transit is that it is designed to move a lot of people, but it goes to very few points. Cars allow us to move small amounts of people and parcels to many points. A second level would allow us to move lots of small cargoes long distances and utilize the current right of way system.

Is that the kind of imagination you're talking about?

beenthere · « **Reply #12 on:** April 10, 2009, 11:07:09 am »

Continuing Ron's thoughts (at least for me

), set up a tube system of climbing into a personal tube, program the destination and get zipped off with a blast of air. Just like the systems in old department stores and now at Bank drive-ups.

Air travel could be similar..settle down in a room at the terminal, get in a coffin-like tube, take a whiff of gas to go to sleep, and wake up at the destination airport. Airline can handle your tube like baggage (?? now that is a potential flaw

), and stack many more people into a plane like cordwood and wait until the planes are full before flying. No fuss, no muss, no waiting, stewing, or fantisizing about dropping out of the sky. Be asleep the whole time.

Programmed life. Won't that be a blast. Kinda like starring at a TV set, or a computer.

bandmiller2 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 10, 2009, 06:50:17 pm »

Really know way of telling what the future holds,only know it will be differant.I'am glad I was born when I was.Youth is cock sure the old folks were doing it wrong,but people meant more to each outher.Have you noticed their are few characters anymore everyone is more or less the same,fit the mold and politcally correct.Frank C.

Paul_H · « **Reply #14 on:** April 10, 2009, 07:08:03 pm »

There's no shortage of young "characters" in my neighbourhood.There are some industrious young fellows for sure.There are slackers too of course but there always was.

moonhill · « **Reply #15 on:** April 10, 2009, 08:23:11 pm »

There you go Ron, that almost sounds like Disney World with the delivery system below in a lower level, unbeknownst to the mob above. I like the air tube transporter.

I always wondered what high paid sports player did with their money, investing in a solar powered city is one way.

Tim

DanG · « **Reply #16 on:** April 10, 2009, 11:01:01 pm »

Quote from: Ron Wenrich on April 10, 2009, 09:54:10 am

I've often wondered why we don't have a second level on our streets where we could run some sort of an electric transit system. My vision would be to have something similar to the third rail type of train system.

They already have that in some places, but for some reason they named it after a chain of sandwich shops.

WH_Conley · « **Reply #17 on:** April 11, 2009, 12:01:22 am »

Beenthere, you been watching Star Track reruns again?

moonhill · « **Reply #18 on:** April 11, 2009, 07:26:02 am »

I have heard that the cell phone was designed, in part, from the communicator, we have moved beyond that now with blue tooth and the ear piece.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellphones/bluetooth-star-trek-communicator-025437.php

Tim

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #19 on:** April 11, 2009, 08:57:55 am »

DanG, that's not quite what I'm talking about. I assume you mean Subway and not Blimpie's.

When I think of a subway, they dig a tunnel, then fill it with a train track, water, rats and the homeless.

DanG · « **Reply #20 on:** April 11, 2009, 09:24:47 am »

Hey, we got around to talking about food within a page!

This is a funny world we live in. Here we are in the middle of a blubber epidemic, and all our effort is going into finding ways to prevent exercise. I can see the yuppies riding their Segways to the gym so they can pay money to walk on a treadmill.

moonhill · « **Reply #21 on:** April 11, 2009, 09:47:04 pm »

Here is a zinger for you all. Scroll down and read the future starting around....... next year, 2010 on into 2045, under Predictions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Singularity_Is_Near

Tim

fishpharmer · « **Reply #22 on:** April 11, 2009, 10:54:11 pm »

Moonhill, I skimmed through all that wikipedia stuff. Which, wikipedia is iitself one of those things that supposedly "evolves" with increased knowledge and such. So be it. What happens when all hard copies, i.e. written paper books are obsolete? How easy would it be for one of the intelligent beings to rewrite history. I hope that is past the "Singularity". I could very well become one of the "Luddites."

After pondering the wikie stuff for a bit I try to contemplate how it will affect forestry forum. Not sure about the forum itself. I was thinking though that far enough in the future sawmills won't need us anymore. Or we won't need sawmills per say. Maybe an machine can be programmed to enter the forest and emerge with a finished load of dried, planed lumber. Its alot easier for my mind to say its all BS. Yet the future will most certainly bring technological advances we now have trouble contemplating.

When I was young, in my teens, I can remember a rich guy that I worked for had a phone in his truck. It had a huge antenna and was a big bulky box hardwired into the truck, not removable, with a corded hand set. That was around the same time we were getting Apple computers in school. Both devices seemed amazing. Today I have a cell phone that allows me to do everything the early computers did and everything plus more than the early phone would do. Now I can send and recieve emails, take digital photos, surf the net, post on the forum and do dozens or more other activities/functions on it. The future is here, and its not waiting for us. I hate to predict what it will bring. I may just watch with my mouth wide open

I can only hope portable saws will get better

moonhill · « **Reply #23 on:** April 11, 2009, 11:14:01 pm »

My memory of computers goes back to the 1980s and seeing my dad first use one to send news stories to Bangor. I don't recall them in school, I graduated high school in 84. I think they arrived in wide use in schools soon after and huge leaps since.

The next 10 years seen reasonable and not that far fetched. Makes one wonder. BS or not it is coming.

If you live in the nature preserve you might need the forum, although it may not be allowed, being a reserve and all, keep it natural.

It makes todays immediate issues seem silly, rickshaws and politics.

Tim

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #24 on:** April 12, 2009, 08:08:51 am »

Quote from: DanG on April 11, 2009, 09:24:47 am

I can see the yuppies riding their Segways to the gym so they can pay money to walk on a treadmill.

I seen that, only a different twist. Buy one of them home gyms, but decide you want to go to the gym and pay because your buddies are all hanging out there and it's another excuse to be someplace else.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #25 on:** April 12, 2009, 08:23:07 am »

Quote from: moonhill on April 11, 2009, 11:14:01 pm

My memory of computers goes back to the 1980s and seeing my dad first use one to send news stories to Bangor. I don't recall them in school, I graduated high school in 84. I think they arrived in wide use in schools soon after and huge leaps since.

I graduated in 1986 from high school and we had 8 bit computers at school. Mostly Commodore 4016, 8032, C64, and PET as well as Tandy1000's. MacIntosh came in around 1985 and Amiga, Atari ST and Apple II GS in 1986 , the first 16 bit micros. There has been IBM DOS CP/M machines since 1977 I think because the C128 that was released in 1986 had a Copyright from Microsoft in 1977 for their BASIC programming language that was on a ROM chip and CP/M system software on disk and the included 1571 floppy drive could read DOS and CP/M disks. It actually could be programmed to read any disk format on a 48 TPI floppy disk.

Look up Benoit B. Mandelbrot and see what his fractals have done for computing and telecommunications.

moonhill · « **Reply #26 on:** April 12, 2009, 08:44:19 am »

SD, you confirm my point. Wasn't it the early 90s when Al Gore discovered the internet?

I use lead acid batteries in my home power system, 8, Trojan L-16s. I also use a cordless impact driver using lithium ion batteries. I find one of the hold backs in alternative power systems and electric vehicles is battery technology. Well, they are working on it. This is from the site of the author of The Singularity is Near, Ray Kurzweil. Just to show his guess at the future is on track and possible, BS?, I think not.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227035.400-batteries-grown-from-armourplated-viruses.htm

Tim

John Mc · « **Reply #27 on:** April 12, 2009, 12:36:39 pm »

Quote from: moonhill on April 11, 2009, 07:26:02 am

I have heard that the cell phone was designed, in part, from the communicator, we have moved beyond that now with blue tooth and the ear piece.

Didn't Lt. Uhuru wear an earpiece on Star Trek?

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #28 on:** April 12, 2009, 02:39:14 pm »

Yip! And a wireless one to boot.

Sprucegum · « **Reply #29 on:** April 12, 2009, 03:20:45 pm »

When I took a business course in '71 the computer part involved punching cards and carrying them down to the basement where the giant 'puter sat. The computer instructor was a hot Redhead. I was a Heinlein fan and speechless in her presence

pineywoods · « **Reply #30 on:** April 12, 2009, 06:46:42 pm »

DanG, you guys are making me feel ANCIENT

. My first encounter with computers, used vacuum tubes, thousands of them. Took 2 40 ton air conditioners, one running, one on standby to keep it from self-destructing. Rotating magnetic drum memory. so DanG expensive only the U.S. gubberment could afford them. Now, your average cell phone is orders of magnitude more capable. Technology begats more technology, and it gets faster and faster. I can't keep up any more. At least I pretty well understand my woodmizer

moonhill · « **Reply #31 on:** April 16, 2009, 06:15:15 am »

Here is a link for those of us who are still falling behind in technology. They have the power to enhance your communication skills. Speaking with words is old technology. Computers with their X's and O's, or however it works, is the new path to discovery.

http://www.wildblue.com/

Tim

moonhill · « **Reply #32 on:** May 06, 2009, 08:15:10 am »

New batteries are on the way. And they are powerful, cheap and did I mention powerful. This will change our future, I believe. It will keep Obama and the smart grid out of our homes, maybe, and they are powerful, I think I mentioned that already. My battery pack is about done, almost 10 years and I am running the genny way to much.

This link is well worth reading, it is full of stuff.

http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/305052/

Tim

Fla._Deadheader · « **Reply #33 on:** May 06, 2009, 08:46:45 am »

Link can't find server

beenthere · « **Reply #34 on:** May 06, 2009, 09:34:34 am »

Time will tell, if this "new" technology/development will get off the ground. Hopefully this will happen.

How soon do you think it will be available to you?
In time to replace your present battery pack?

pineywoods · « **Reply #35 on:** May 06, 2009, 09:57:02 am »

Practical sodium sulphur batteries

Sounds interesting. And there's some deep pockets behind this project. There's another new battery with similiar capabilities that uses a lead-fiberglass foam. www.fireflyenergy.com this one bankrolled by caterpillar.

moonhill · « **Reply #36 on:** May 06, 2009, 05:08:56 pm »

beenthere, that is why I put it in the future category, I hope for some new technology soon to rid my self of these old type batteries. It seems the firefly people have turned something out now. I am looking for something new, I could dump $2000 into my lead acid pack now but will need to replace it in 8 years. These potential batteries give the possibility of at least twice if not 5 times the life maybe more. Even solar technology is dropping in cost, if the cost drops below grid power, that will become mainstream. Obama will not have to tax the coal companies into nonexistence. The link (it is still working) I put up suggest terrorist (if it is still ok to use that word) relief as well, no main power grid to attack.

Tim

bandmiller2 · « **Reply #37 on:** May 08, 2009, 07:18:41 am »

I'am stuck in the 60's technology has done come and gone, just picking up the scraps left behind.At least it feels that way.Frank C.

ErikC · « **Reply #38 on:** May 08, 2009, 10:56:28 am »

I think Dad's system has NiCad batteries, alkaline instead of acid? Anyway they are over 20 years old, dad got them used, and still as good as ever. He replaced the lead acid type with these many years back. Will last indefinitely in controlled environments, where the weather or extreme temps can't get at them. But no longer available due to manufacturing and disposal concerns. hopefully that isn't the future on these new type.

rowerwet · « **Reply #39 on:** May 12, 2009, 01:06:41 am »

back to the original topic, If a segway costs 5K how much is this thing from GM going to cost? for 5K I can get a top of the line mountain bike, or a gas scooter that will both be more fun and practical to get places on. The only reasonable use of a segway I ever saw was a man who had a serious back injury that limited his walking, he used it to go everywhere he used to walk. But still for 5K you could call a lot of cabs.
My ford focus only cost 9k new, if GM even can make the price equal to a compact car, then they have lost all but the most gridlocked cities.
If this is how Obama and co. think GM is going to turn the corner, GOOD LUCK!

OneWithWood · « **Reply #40 on:** May 12, 2009, 11:15:12 am »

Quote from: rowerwet on May 12, 2009, 01:06:41 am

If this is how Obama and co. think GM is going to turn the corner, GOOD LUCK!

This was a pretty good post up until you threw in the misinformed political jab.

For the record, GM execs are still running GM on a daily basis. That includes R&D.

Please leave the politics to the restricted topics board.

moonhill · « **Reply #41 on:** May 13, 2009, 06:58:33 am »

Quote from: rowerwet on May 12, 2009, 01:06:41 am

back to the original topic, If a segway costs 5K how much is this thing from GM going to cost? for 5K I can get a top of the line mountain bike, or a gas scooter that will both be more fun and practical to get places on. The only reasonable use of a segway I ever saw was a man who had a serious back injury that limited his walking, he used it to go everywhere he used to walk. But still for 5K you could call a lot of cabs.
My ford focus only cost 9k new, if GM even can make the price equal to a compact car, then they have lost all but the most gridlocked cities.
If this is how Obama and co. think GM is going to turn the corner, GOOD LUCK!

If there were millions of the segway type vehicles being made they would be comparable to the cost of bicycles and small cheap cars. It is hard to compare such things as the equation is not all there. As a talk show host says " I hope" GM "does fail," the interesting part will be the reincarnation of GM, and the future of the whole automotive industry. Is that true failure or a step in a new direction?

Watching a segway maneuver through a crowd is an amazing undertaking, zig, zag, zip and way you go. The crowd was almost at a standstill and these segways and riders came and went through the masses, it was quite impressive. So my short experience with the segway is not the same as yours, rowerwet.

Tim

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #42 on:** May 15, 2009, 07:43:39 am »

The Department of Energy has slashed their hydrogen fuel cell spending by 59% to $68 million. Seems like the future is set for electric cars that get 40 miles per charge.

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #43 on:** May 19, 2009, 05:55:57 pm »

So, they raised the CAFE standards today to 39 MPG for cars and 30 MPG for light trucks by 2016. Do they have that kind of technology?

My guess is that they'll be pushing electric cars to get the MPG up on them. I wonder if they take into account the amount of fuel used to make electricity? Cars will also have smaller motors, be built smaller, and carbon fiber to reduce weight.

Light trucks are going to be a lot tougher. My 4 cyl Toyota only averages about 22-23 MPG for the year. On trips, I can get 26.

moonhill · « **Reply #44 on:** May 19, 2009, 09:36:10 pm »

Are those average numbers? If they make available a small car that gets 65 mpg they could still have the large luxury cars and allow them to get into the mid 20's? I don't like them mandating such regulations but I do know there are very efficient vehicles available in other countries but they are not allowed in the US. I would like to see that change in the future. There is such technology, it comes in a small package, I don't mind. Right now my bum around car is a 1995 Geo Tracker, it get a lousy 24 miles/gallon. I am planning a VW diesel swap, I am hoping for 40 mpg. This is in the near future for me as cash and time is short right now, things are looking up.

Tim

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #45 on:** May 20, 2009, 05:28:08 am »

I get 32 mpg in my RAV4. My Alero I sold, I was getting 42 and it was 6 cyl. Keep in mind these are imperial gallons (4.54 litres) versus US gallons (3.86 litres). So, my RAV is probably similar to Ron's Tacoma. I remember 32 mpg in the 2000 model I had, Imperial gallons that is. The 6 cyl Tacoma is a real gas guzzler, thankfully we can get the 4 cycl again in Canada. The new models however are a mid-sized truck which means more weight and not as compact as the older ones.

moonhill · « **Reply #46 on:** May 20, 2009, 08:51:58 pm »

Here is one, a race car made up with renewable components, the steering wheel has carrots in it. If you click on the dots on the car it will tell a little about that part, it is under The Project and then under the Car. It is diesel, by the way. Could this be in the future?

http://www.worldfirstracing.co.uk/

Tim

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #47 on:** May 20, 2009, 09:23:08 pm »

Those numbers are supposed to be fleet averages. Its supposed to save something like 1.8 billion barrels of oil, and reduce 940,000 metric tons of CO2 from the air. The problem is that they aren't saying over what time frame. In reality, its pretty small.

I'm trying to convince my wife to buy a VW TDI. Mileage is supposed to be around 29 city and 41 highway, and they have an ad on TV stating that they got 58 MPG. I've always been able to beat the stated mileage. They run about $24k, which is a little bit high. Our Saturn has 125,000. I understand there is still a tax credit for buying these diesels.

fishpharmer · « **Reply #48 on:** May 21, 2009, 02:57:20 am »

Not sure what the future holds, except fuel will cost more.

I am with you Ron on the TDI. My wife has a Honda that has 185000 miles and still going strong. She is due a new car. I want her to get a TDI sportwagon. She doesn't want a TDI or a wagon. Maybe a regular TDI Jetta.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #49 on:** May 21, 2009, 04:26:24 am »

I see a lot of VW TDI's on the road here and also large amount of Toyota Matrix and RAV4's and Corollas. I mean lots. Their pricing on those Toyota's have not changed in 3 years. I sure like mine, I can go anyplace.

Ianab · « **Reply #50 on:** May 21, 2009, 07:19:24 am »

I agress SD, cars like that are very popular here in NZ.

My 97 Corolla only gets about 35mpg, but it's not exactly the economy model. 4 x throttle body, 8,000 rpm redline, 170 hp... From a factory standard 1600cc non-turbo engine.

So they can get resonable economy from an engine that performs like a 1970s race engine, and thats in a 12 year old car.

Safety, it has airbags, crumple zones, ABS brakes etc. If you get run over by a Semi, then you are mushed no matter what you are driving. Give me the ABS, good handling, and some decent acceleration to keep me out of trouble.

The technolgy is there, it may cost a few more $$ than the cheapest budget car. But thats because you will want a trick engine with variable valve timing and maybe a turbo. That way you get the economy at medium RPM, but the power at higher revs with the turbo etc.

Ian

Hilltop366 · « **Reply #51 on:** June 18, 2009, 10:02:21 pm »

Batteries have come a long way in the last few years, but this was one guy's take on them, I seen on TV last year talking about electric cars.....

He said there are three types of liars....     Liars
                           Da*n Liars
                     and      Battery manufactures

moonhill · « **Reply #52 on:** July 02, 2009, 07:56:45 am »

It seem they have called the Puma a flop, or at a flopped publicity stunt.

http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/107261/dumbest-moments-in-business-2009-midyear-edition.html?mod=career-leadership

Tim

beenthere · « **Reply #53 on:** July 02, 2009, 10:52:51 am »

moonhill
That isn't the only interesting bits of news on that liberal Yahoo's summary of events so far this year.

moonhill · « **Reply #54 on:** July 03, 2009, 07:13:45 am »

Yeah, I get a kick out of the yahoo page, I am always thinking "what are their goals for the day", or " what perspective are they getting across", spin is one way of looking at it. Who funds Yahoo?

Tim

glgdiggs · « **Reply #55 on:** July 22, 2009, 07:39:45 am »

It is interesting to me that in a discussion of the future the real energy problem of depletion is not mentioned. It now appears as always in hindsight that the maximum production of conventional crude oil occured in May of 2005 at a production rate of 74.8 M/bd, while all liquid fuels production maxed out at 84 M/bd in July 2008. GM as the whole American economy felt the pressure from rising energy prices. It may be hard to remember but oil was traded in the $14 dollar/bl range only 10 years ago, that means at todays prices we are seeing a 500% increase, and last summer it was a 1000%. I have been looking at this problem for 12 years, and have concluded that there is no technological solution that will substitute on a EROEI basis for the oil depletion problem.

News:

Author Topic: The future (Read 4734 times)