Author Topic: E-Classic's Fusion Chamber (Read 5076 times)

trebor64 · « **on:** April 02, 2009, 11:25:54 pm »

Hi all,

I'm posting new pictures from Hackberry's fusion chamber replacement "venture". I thought it would be a good thing to start a new thread. So here are the picture on which Hackberry will comment later on. Cheers /Trebor

New FusionChamber 1

New FusionChamber 2

New FusionChamber 3

New FusionChamber 4

Bricks removed from firebox

Fusion chamber removed from firebox

leeallen · « **Reply #1 on:** April 03, 2009, 04:24:45 am »

How does one pull out the fusion chamber? does the new one just sit in place or does it bolt in?

Hackberry · « **Reply #2 on:** April 03, 2009, 11:01:49 am »

Thanks for posting the pictures trebor!

Ok here we go. The first thing you need to do is get the stove cleaned up and let it cool down to the 160 range. Then remove one side of the fire brick. Then remove the two bricks in the bottom. Be careful not to break them. ( they cost $100.00 each.) We broke the one on the left hand side, but put it back in anyway. There is a rope seal that comes out next after that outs remove the caulk thats around the fusion chamber. There is a little steel teat in the top of the hole that hooks the chamber into the fire box. Pull the fusion chamber up and towards you at the same time and it pops out. The fire brick in the reaction chamber also needs to come out and be cleaned. Then re install the new one. Total time is about 2 hrs. Now for the bad news. The steel in the fusion chamber is only 3/8's and it looks like it's cold rolled. My chamber failed on the welds. They were not built up and did not penetrate the steel. The new one looked the same so we will all be doing this again. CB needs to address this with better steel and better welding and fix this fast. Sorry for the bad news,

Hackberry

stumper · « **Reply #3 on:** April 05, 2009, 01:11:25 pm »

Looks like you cn add me to the list. It appear that I have a rupture starting. I can see a buble and feel a crack on the bottom of the fusion chamber. Small right now. No loss of performance. I am not sure it is even cracked through. Hopefully, I can make it another month till heating season is over.

wi woodcutter · « **Reply #4 on:** April 05, 2009, 06:07:06 pm »

I sure hope that Central Boiler makes this right with you guys! Seems like a lot of messing around. I would be calling Central Boiler and telling them your problems if you haven't already.

antos_ketcham · « **Reply #5 on:** April 05, 2009, 06:52:30 pm »

So
Pete

stumper · « **Reply #6 on:** April 05, 2009, 07:08:23 pm »

Thing that worries me is that I have not used mine very hard. I have only burnt 4.5 cord and I do not have any of the warping other seem to have.

antos_ketcham · « **Reply #7 on:** April 05, 2009, 07:23:45 pm »

I've only burned 5.

logwalker · « **Reply #8 on:** April 05, 2009, 10:57:51 pm »

When I saw the pics of that chamber my first reaction was it is a leak waiting to happen. Too many corners and stress points. They must be pulling their hair out at the home office.

rondojod · « **Reply #9 on:** April 07, 2009, 03:48:43 pm »

To update you on my boiler, I had creosote leaking out the back tubes which landed on the bottom solenoid and caused the damper to stick which burned out the solenoid and in turn kept blowing fuses. Put in new one and alls working. During the shutdown I cleaned out my firebox and found my fusion chamber ruptured. When I started the fire I could not get the reaction chamber to burn which in turn took over two hours for it to come up to temp and smoked constantly. When I got back from work it was working right. Now for how I feel about this: this is my second boiler this year after having constant problems with the first one and finally after 4 months of problems and finding welds broke and fusion chamber blown they at Central Boiler finally admitted they had a problem and decided to give me a new one. Now after only 8 weeks of burning it has happened all over again. Its about time Central Boiler admitted fault and instead of just giving us new ones to replace them, work on a solution to fix this problem. At this rate I would have to put at least three per heating season. These stoves were supposed to have been in the making for four years and well tested. If thats the case why are we having these problems? As far as their engineers telling that they will not be effected by these ruptures believe me it does effect them. I agree with antos ketcham that Central Boiler needs to be pushed into doing something and not trying to sugar coat us with new ones. If Cental Boiler would at least communicate with there customers and tell us they are working on fixing this problem it might help.I for one am not happy replacing mine just to know I will have to do it all over again.

stumper · « **Reply #10 on:** April 07, 2009, 04:35:13 pm »

I sure hope they figure this out and do the right thing. I chose this company becasue it a larger well established company. As long as they make it right in the end I'll be happy.

I do find it interesting that I have not heard of any issues from Heatmor or any of the other companies. Central Boiler beat Heatmor to the market, but did they do it by cutting corners. I sure hope not.

rondojod · « **Reply #11 on:** April 07, 2009, 05:17:02 pm »

Thats my concern too. So far all I've seen out of this company is them ignoring issues. Either that or their keeping everthing hush hush. It's my understanding that they don't even share much information with their dealers so we're pretty much kept in the dark about if or what they are doing to correct these problems!

thecfarm · « **Reply #12 on:** April 07, 2009, 07:18:44 pm »

I feel sorry for you guys.If I had half of the trouble,some of you are having,I would be speaking to a lot higher up than a dealer.They cost a good chunk of change,not to work right.I feel they are way too complex. I looked at the regular ones and did not care for then either.I have always felt the Central Boiler just sells them and don't want to hear from you again.Kinda sad when some of you have to swap ideas back and forth to fix a problem when CB is no help at all.I have heard of other people having trouble and the dealer was no help at all.

JJ · « **Reply #13 on:** April 07, 2009, 09:38:02 pm »

Get any good pictures of the old ruptured reaction chamber?
Is the rupture in same place every time?

JJ

stumper · « **Reply #14 on:** April 08, 2009, 04:09:44 pm »

No, my dealer told me that they rupture both high and low. Mine is low.

rondojod · « **Reply #15 on:** April 08, 2009, 04:50:42 pm »

On my first boiler it ruptured on the bottom and the top. On this boiler it has ruptured the back of it. I am also having trouble downloading Java Uploader as I am on dial up but if someone wants to post my pictures, I could e-mail them to you if I had your e-mail adress.

leeallen · « **Reply #16 on:** April 09, 2009, 04:40:41 am »

I would love to see those photos Rondojod.
I have trouble posting pics on this site as well.

thecfarm · « **Reply #17 on:** April 09, 2009, 06:56:43 am »

If you guys are having trouble with java,try the old way to load pictures.I see it's still there.You really should learn how to down size pictures with you having dial up.I'm on dial up too and have told someone no more pictures until you learn how to down size.Takes like 3 hours for one picture to upload.If you guys are having trouble,we will help you.I had a hard time with it too.A little help and there was no stopping me.Looks like a lot at first,but it gets easier and easier the more you do it.

trebor64 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 11, 2009, 02:58:35 pm »

Hi all,

Posting pics from rondojod's fusion chamber. Another case of rupture. Yesterday I again cleaned my e-classic to make sure there is no rupture. For now it seems to be holding ok..... but I feel the clock is ticking

...... not a good feeling at all. Wishing good luck to rondojod and anyone with this problem.
Cheers /Trebor

rondojod' fusion chamber 1

rondojod' fusion chamber 2

rondojod' fusion chamber 3

rondojod · « **Reply #19 on:** April 15, 2009, 12:26:06 pm »

A little update on my fusion chamber. I e-mailed Central Boiler on Sunday asking if they were working on improving there fusion chamber, as of now no response. in my e-mail I expressed my concern on their fusion chamber, door warping, firebricks in reaction chamber breaking, by pass door opens real hard and this all happening within 5 to 8 weeks.
If this happens within this short period of time how would we expect any long length of service? I am now wondering if the EPA would have qualified them if they knew how bad they smoked when the fusion chamber ruptures? Which at this time I also wonder how many are using there boilers not even realizing that there fusion chamber is ruptured. If anyone is having a hard time getting them up to temp and excessive smoking then chances are your fusion chamber has ruptured.
When they are burning correctly you should see very little smoke, almost invisable. I for one believe that we need to group together and force their hands to make sure that they are working on a solution to their problems. I do not want to be constantly replacing my fusion chamber. I would also assume that the EPA would have set some sort of time frame for a constant burn without smoking before they qualified them!

ecrane99 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 16, 2009, 08:46:41 pm »

Guys,

You can add me to the wounded list. I found my fusion chamber ruptured on the reaction chamber side (bottom) of the half moon. Also.. the flat side of the half moon is wavy and a bit deformed. Unbelievable!! Ed

ecrane99 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 17, 2009, 05:33:06 pm »

Reaction chamber: different angle of the rupture. it is in the center all the way back.

From the bottom (reaction chamber side)

From the top: notice the wavy sheet metal down into the chamber on the left side.

Reaction chamber door: No heat damage to the door as some other have posted.

ecrane99 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 17, 2009, 05:34:24 pm »

Are there any E-Classic owners NOT having this issue?

Thanks. Ed

MudBud · « **Reply #23 on:** April 17, 2009, 08:09:00 pm »

Ed, I haven't yet, however I have not shut mine down yet for the spring. I plan on doing it around May 1st and doing a good cleaning and inspection. I do know that all the lower bricks are now out of the fire box and my reaction door is not warped.

I would like to know more how some door panels are that warped and others aren't. Is it due to the fusion chamber letting go first?

mikey · « **Reply #24 on:** April 19, 2009, 12:41:15 pm »

You can add mine to the list also, was cleaning it this morning and noticed the fusion chamber is ruptured, hope I can get it fixed
Mikey

ral · « **Reply #25 on:** April 26, 2009, 03:59:03 pm »

Bought my new e-classic at the end of the year to get the rebate. Am getting things ready for the install. Told the Dealer about the fusion chamber problem and he is asking CB. Has anyone got any feedback from the manufactures on the problem. Don't mind fixing if you don't have to do every year?

stumper · « **Reply #26 on:** April 27, 2009, 04:41:56 pm »

Rebate? What rebate?

ral · « **Reply #27 on:** April 27, 2009, 07:40:30 pm »

They had a year end sale from what I was told, I guess you can call it what ever, sale, rebate, but I was sold a unit that had to be paid by a certain date and would get $2100.00 off the price? I am sure they wanted to reduce inventory, it was listed on there Web Site. That is all I know, did you buy one and didn't receive the sale price. Am I putting more in to your post then need be?

renegadecj · « **Reply #28 on:** May 01, 2009, 08:21:29 am »

Add me to the list too. I haven't shut down for the year yet, but when cleaning out the ashes this morning from the fusion chamber, I looked back with a light, and mine looks just like ecrane99. I'm in Colorado.

I'm contacting my rep today...any answers from CB?

stumper · « **Reply #29 on:** May 10, 2009, 06:39:47 am »

When did the reaction chamber door heat sheild start to warp on your boilers? Mine was perfect when I first detected the rupture in the fusion chamber, now it is starting to warp. It is only bowed out a little but it has started. I am just wondering if the warpage other have was caused by the bad fusion chamber.

MudBud · « **Reply #30 on:** May 10, 2009, 08:37:52 am »

Anyone have problem with their temperature guage? I am still running the boiler and went to look yesterday and the temp was at 220 and the unit wasn't running. No water boiling out either. I opened the door and the temp was minimal inside as well. I closed the door and the temp dropped to about 171, I have it set for 170. Then it rose to 218, down to 212, up to 220. A few minutes later the furnace kicked in and the temp read 161...

Any idea if the sensor is bad or the digital control is bad?

I am getting ready to shut it down for the summer and don't want this nagging probelm in the fall.

Keith

Bart May · « **Reply #31 on:** May 10, 2009, 05:53:21 pm »

Keith, Ah Yes I just had exact same problem but it was on my 6048. You Love control has gone bad. My dealer told me there’s only a 1yr warrantee on those ;>(
Now the good new whole sale their on $38 ;>). I have to slam my door pretty hard to get the latch to stick. I think that jarring may have mad mine go bad. I’m a lot earlier on it now

Bart/ VA

boilerman101 · « **Reply #32 on:** May 15, 2009, 12:31:25 pm »

Mudbud13,
My E Classic did the same thing. Believe it or not my low water sensor was bad. Jumped the sensor and now temp display works perfectly. Dealer getting me a new sensor, but in the meantime it works.

MudBud · « **Reply #33 on:** May 15, 2009, 05:33:08 pm »

Thanks, I will have a list for them when I shut it down for the summer.

ecrane99 · « **Reply #34 on:** May 17, 2009, 11:49:32 pm »

My dealer says CB will replace the fusion chamber. Unfortunatley I think this will probably only last until next year. I hope they are working on a perminent solution.

Bart May · « **Reply #35 on:** May 18, 2009, 05:05:12 pm »

WOW, good thing the fusion chamber is removable. If it wasn’t; it would cost CB a whole lot more to straighten out this mess.
Think how many of those stoves have been deployed.
I think CB rushed the whole thing to market because of the EPA regulations.
With temperatures reaching 2000 degrees I’m sure there is a alloy of thicker metals that would better withstand the heat.
It’s gonna take CB some time to prefect the eclassic. That exactly the advice given to me a year and half ago.
I came this close to buying one of the first eclassics a year and a half ago, but empted for the 6048 after blogging on some downdraft gasifier sites.
I’d be raisin Hell with CB if I was in Your Guys Shoes.
Has anyone heard about how the Greenwood APEN Stoves or Sequoia are holding up?
I think if I had to do all over again the Garn is a proven design, but a slightly different concept of burning one big fire per day and heating 2000 Gallons of water, then just let the fire go out.
I Love this site and talking to all You Fellows!

Bart May/Timberville VA

schoe · « **Reply #36 on:** June 24, 2009, 12:33:42 pm »

thanks to those who posted the pictures.I haven't been on FF for a few months and happened on this thread.My fusion chamber is warped big time.Yolu can put your hand in the crack at the bottom of the chamber on the half moon side.It should be interesting to see how CB handles this.I'm in eastern Mass.

whodoctor · « **Reply #37 on:** June 29, 2009, 10:23:10 am »

Hey Guys, my fusion chamber is ruptured too, but this is the least of my concerns! I have a failed water jacket in mine. See my Blog/Thread: http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,32705.0.html. Anyone else have this problem?

ecrane99 · « **Reply #38 on:** July 03, 2009, 02:55:49 pm »

Replacing the chamber in my e-classic:

olyman · « **Reply #39 on:** July 04, 2009, 08:16:44 pm »

bart may. that garn is a nice unit, but at what cost?

Bart May · « **Reply #40 on:** July 07, 2009, 07:55:22 pm »

I wanta say I heard in the $10K range. That about what I got in CL-6048.

icedflame · « **Reply #41 on:** July 29, 2009, 10:49:47 am »

Thanks to all on this site. Got me through the set up last year and now use it to keep up info on the eclassic (plus a lot of other good stuff on other topics). Finally got around to doing my extensive summer cleanout and the fusion chamber was cracked. Notified my dealer and he immediately called CB and was told that I should wait until the first of September to replace it as they are modifying the design and the new one would be available then. It will be sent at no charge to folks having problems if they have been identified. One thing I was not happy with was that they told him if I wanted a new one now of the old design they are considering this a "wear item" and would be charged for it. Opted to wait.
Another problem I had this winter was with my auto relight not working. Was told to clean the upper gas gun. After a couple of hours of pryin, shakin and cussin I finally got it out and it was a solid chunk of creasote. After another couple hours of cleaning, I got all orifices located and cleaned. I have now been told that this is a regular maintanance item and should be cleaned regularly. I explained if they want to have folks take care of something they should put it in the manual. My dealer also asked again about this and they also recommend checking and cleaning out the main burner. Personally I will probably check the upper every 2-3 months and the bottom I will check this summer as I not awaire to until today and determine how bad it is. There are only 4 bolts on each, so it is a fairly easy check unless you wait too long.

cb6048 · « **Reply #42 on:** August 02, 2009, 08:58:27 am »

Wow I feel for all the eclassic owners out there. I would BS if this was happening to me. Whats going to happen 5 or even 10 years from now? When i got in to this owb thing last year I looked at the eclassic but had a bad feeling about it.....to complicated. I chose the Classic 6048 and have had not one problem last year. I have 4 friends with the regular classics that report no problems. I have one buddy with the eclassic but he hasn't mentioned any problems yet either, but it was his first year with it. I will say me and the eclassic guy burned pretty much the same amount of wood last year. I don't think there's a big difference in wood consumption between the two.

Bottom line Central Boiler had in my and alot of others opinion one of, if not the best owb on the market with the classic line it was perfected and simple. They should of built off that platform instead of a completely different stove altogether. There seems to be no long term testing on these units and alot of people spent big money for these and are now having unacceptable problems with them. Its ruining CBs reputation in the owb world. I would be out of my mind with this, seems there tons of maintenance and cleaning that I was not told about when I was looking at them.

I wish the best of luck to all that purchased the eclassic I hope CB stands behind its new product and has the financial wear with all to fix all the problems. Don't give up make them make it right..... CB got all the money for these stoves you guys deserve a quality product.

ken999 · « **Reply #43 on:** April 24, 2010, 11:40:02 am »

Add me to the list of wounded...FC is toast and I now have a warped door on the RC....I'm starting to see a pattern here....

I've been in touch with the dealer and he has his 2300 guy getting back to me Monday. It'll be interesting to see what comes out of all this. I've been told by CB that I get the first new FC free. He also mentioned that they have yet to have one of the revised models fail.

MudBud · « **Reply #44 on:** April 24, 2010, 09:03:20 pm »

Ken, my dealer installed a new FC last fall and it seems to have held up over this past season. Once I shut it down for the summer I will do some more proactive looking. As far as the RC door, they all warp and my dealer says its nothing to worry about, even his is that way.

ken999 · « **Reply #45 on:** April 25, 2010, 09:52:52 pm »

I was thinking about taking some of the leftover firebrick from the upper chamber and leaning it against the RC door for protection....what could it hurt?

MudBud · « **Reply #46 on:** April 26, 2010, 05:25:02 pm »

Good point, it can't. As long as it doesn't block the turbulators at all, I will have to take a look.

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Author Topic: E-Classic's Fusion Chamber (Read 5076 times)