Releasing oak seedlings-added pics

[jeffreythree]

I met with my local state forester and he said I can't manage pine because of soil type(clay) and small property size(17 acre) and my only option is wildlife trees.  He said hardwood takes to long, but my 'wildlife' trees are hardwood.  He said any thinning, culling, or release work would be a waste.  He looked around for about 20 minutes.  I have 3 1/3rd acre areas where I have good oak and hickory regen(about 4' tall) overtopped by a few horribly malformed <8" cedar elms.  Would it be worthwhile to release the saplings?  Will the oak make it in an opening that small?  Should I get rid of the hickory to help the oak?  I already have plenty of young hickory and very little young oak.  I have a lot of fading giant post oaks, so I see these openings increasing in number and don't want to leave it entirely up to nature or I will have one big cedar elm patch.

[SwampDonkey]

Maybe remove the overstory in those sections to release the oak. Of course there will be damage, but safety in numbers. Then wait a 3-4 years and brush it out to select for the healthier oaks by spacing them 6-7 feet. I wouldn't brush it until your crop trees are at least 20 feet though. But, if the elm are over taking them in height, don't delay too many years. A good brush saw can make short work of the competition. The stand will need another thinning in a few years as crowns fill in and the lower limbs prune up. Up here a thinning at 10-13 years is done, and recommended in 25 years again. Stuff grows slower up here, so maybe 15 years for a second thinning down your way. If there is a hole or no oak in that spot, just pick the next best for your interests to fill the spot. If you need to leave a suckered sprout (clump), thin them out to no more than 2 on the clump. Cut as low to the ground as possible, under 6" is typical. If you had some herbicide you could spray the fresh stumps at the end of each day (during your thinning project), not the spaced clumps though. But that isn't necessary.

If the timing of the spacing (crop tree height, end of growing season) is right, the cut stumps don't do much when they sprout. I've been on hardwood sites 5 years after a thinning the stump sprouts were about nil. Aspen sites will have hardwood sprouting back pretty strong because the aspen doesn't cast much shade, mixed with softwood it's not bad. That slash, although trashy looking, breaks down pretty quick. Make sure all your cut stems are brought to the ground for a proper job.

[woodtroll]

yeah thin it out those old post oak have to have started some time. Now would be a good time for there replacements to start.
It sounds like fire would have been part of succession.

[SwampDonkey]

These are some of the species I left in my plantations during a brushing project.




I left 1000 trees/acre (6-7 foot spacing). Straight on, it's hard to show thinning with a camera, an aerial view is better to see. If a feller had a fire tower.   

[jeffreythree]

Here is a photo of a portion of one area(getting these pics small enough is hard ).  Notice the crazy shapes the cedar elms have grown into from growing under bigger oaks and heading for the light.  The oak and hickory have just started to leaf out in the photo so they are hard to see sticks.  By the way, the hickory I have is nutmeg.  Evidently it is pretty rare and slow growing at an average of .85 cm per year so my 24" DBH trees must be about 75 years old.

Nutmeg hickory, looks like shagbark but not the nut:

[SwampDonkey]

That ground looks like it was farmed once before, because it's so even. No pit and mound topography. 


Yeah, those trees look pretty much like suppressed, flat-topped, half dead, leaning junk. Not that your ground is junk, but it's like what a lot of people around my neck of the woods expect the next crop to be. Somehow they are suppose to miraculously develop into top quality stuff.

[madhatte]

We've had pretty good results in the NW with oak release;  however, keeping the scots broom down afterward is a losing proposition. 

[WDH]

I would kill the hickory and cedar elm and let the oaks grow.  Oak has more value as a wildlife tree for most wildlife species.  Cedar elm is good for the songbirds when in flower so you could leave a few along with a few hickories for diversity.  I would definitely select for the oak.