$0.12 Per bdft??

[okie]

Ok, the plant I work at uses oak 2x6's for packaging boards and we go through anywhere from 1250 to 2100 bdft every 24 hours.
 I work a swing shift and have 15 days off a month and thought I'd put a bid in to make some of the boards for the plant on my days off.  I was talked to about my bid on account of bidding on a bdft basis and was asked how much that was per board. I was laughed at and told that they pay $1.32 per board and that includes a 60 mile shipping charge.
Not counting the shipping, the board foot cost would be exactly $0.12 per board foot .
 This mill charges the general public $1.60 per board foot on red oak lumber picked up at their yard. I really think the $1.32 is a bdft price but have been assured that it is a unit price. We do not use pallet grade lumber, used to but quit due to quality control reasons. Is it even possible to saw the lumber for that price??? Can you even buy logs for that price? I think the powers that be at work are terribly mistaken or misled  but you cant tell them that. Please tell me what y'all think about this. 

[beenthere]

What length boards are you talking?

[okie]

What length boards are you talking?

11'

[Gary_C]

I know when times were better, most sawmills around here that cut pallet lumber complained that the Amish mills in the SE part of the state would cut you pallet boards for $0.25 per bd ft. Contrary to what most people think, the quality of the wood from those Amish mills is not very high. So who knows, someone may be desperate enough on a large continous volume to work for very little. They are actually considering the wood to be free as it nearly is today and are working for to keep the banker happy for now.

In ordinary times most mills had to pay around 8-12 cents stumpage for low quality oak and then figure 25 cents minimum for sawing. In the past I have bought oak stumpage for $0.10 and sold rough sawn boards and beams for haywagons, etc for $0.80 to $1.25 depending on size, quality, and length.

[Bibbyman]

How thick are they sawing them?  Some of the price can be made up by sawing 2x at 1-1/2" or, like we often do 1-5/8" thick.  But it won't make it worth doing for $120/1000.

[okie]

I know when times were better, most sawmills around here that cut pallet lumber complained that the Amish mills in the SE part of the state would cut you pallet boards for $0.25 per bd ft. Contrary to what most people think, the quality of the wood from those Amish mills is not very high. So who knows, someone may be desperate enough on a large continous volume to work for very little. They are actually considering the wood to be free as it nearly is today and are working for to keep the banker happy for now.

In ordinary times most mills had to pay around 8-12 cents stumpage for low quality oak and then figure 25 cents minimum for sawing. In the past I have bought oak stumpage for $0.10 and sold rough sawn boards and beams for haywagons, etc for $0.80 to $1.25 depending on size, quality, and length.

Where do I sign up for those nearly free logs?    Even if the logs were free I wouldnt saw for that. I think the wear and tear on the saw, and operating expenses (for me anyway) would use up your sawing fee with not enough left over to gather lint in your pocket. Just my $.02 though.
Thank you for your reply.

[okie]

How thick are they sawing them?  Some of the price can be made up by sawing 2x at 1-1/2" or, like we often do 1-5/8" thick.  But it won't make it worth doing for $120/1000.

They are sawing 1.5 X 5.5.  What would y'all have bid by the bd ft? Keep in mind, we are picky on our boards, they must have no punky spots or large knots.

[Chico]

So You're saying they're basically buying common and better 5/4 for 12 cents a bf Where do they ship these pallets I want to go pick them up and haul them away for them I think somebody's pencil is a little dull  nobody could do that and even break even imo Even 2 and 2a sell for 45 to 50 cents for flooring mills I just don't buy that
Chico

[Ron Wenrich]

We're selling our pallet boards at $280/Mbf.  They wouldn't quite fit your bill, but a piece of glorified 5/4 pallet just might.  That would drag the price up to about $200/Mbf.  It wouldn't be enough for me to cut that stock. 

The only profitable way to make those would be with a scragg mill and pulp quality logs.  If I had a constant market for that material, I might go with double the price.  I would also want to throw in some off species like sycamore, ash, hickory, and the like. 

We're selling stuff to New York City at about 60¢ with hit or miss planing and a delivery of 100 miles.  But its random width and 12' and longer.  Its only a few loads per year.

[Bill_G]

12 cents,That would not even  be firewood price range in NH

[SwampDonkey]

Maybe, if the state they are coming from subsidizes the timber purchases, labour, electric and shipping.  I couldn't buy utility grade for that.

[Ironwood]

Gotta be wrong. Ironwood

[ely]

okie if you want to shut tehm up and make them realize their wrong tell them you will take two truckloads at that price. watch them run backwards.

[spencerhenry]

i think someone is yanking your chain. i agree with the last post, at that price i would buy it and resell it. it is possible that someone is selling that cheap, but the only way i could figure it to be possible is if the material is something that a mill generates while producing something else, and they have no outlet for it. but if that much material is being consumed, i think the byproduct theory doesnt work.
 when i am milling a lot of big timbers i generate alot of 1x. when i get too much of it, i sell it off cheap to make it go away. but even dumping it its worth more than 12 cents.

 i sell alot of firewood, and i see ads all the time for less than half of what i charge. i dont know it for a fact, but i would bet that their "cord" is not a cord.

[ARKANSAWYER]

  Well at 1.5 x 5.5 x 11' that is $173.00 mbdft.  If it is a 5x6 ripped into 3 boards and has the pith in it then yes they can.  You could not saw it on a band mill and make money but I could scragg it and do OK.  I could buy pulp wood at $26 a ton with 6 inch top and spit it out.  Most likly they are splitting cants that would not make a rr tie and have no market for pallet wood.  They may even be selling the side wood as pallet stock.
  But to sit down and just saw this out would be hard to do and make money.    Course you have to know that wholesale for FAS red oak is $500 mbdft right now.

[okie]

  Well at 1.5 x 5.5 x 11' that is $173.00 mbdft.  If it is a 5x6 ripped into 3 boards and has the pith in it then yes they can.  You could not saw it on a band mill and make money but I could scragg it and do OK.  I could buy pulp wood at $26 a ton with 6 inch top and spit it out.  Most likly they are splitting cants that would not make a rr tie and have no market for pallet wood.  They may even be selling the side wood as pallet stock.
  But to sit down and just saw this out would be hard to do and make money.    Course you have to know that wholesale for FAS red oak is $500 mbdft right now.

Regarding the wholesale of red oak, is'nt log price real close to that? The only log pricing I have found is in a north eastern state and their 16"dia sawlogs on oak red and white are $450/mbdft. How can one buy logs and possibly make money at those rates. I know what it costs me to produce lumber as a one man crew without buying the logs, and I could'nt operate alone at those rates and buy fuel and cover blade maintenance. No wonder mills are shutting down all around.

[Bro. Noble]

If you want to sell them lumber,  figure your bid on what you can produce the lumber for with a reasonable return for your labor and equipment.  The worst they can do is reject your bid.  It won't do any good to try to teach a bookkeeper the lumber business.  Put your bid in 'per piece' form as they evidentally don't understand bdft.  I've lost sales by pricing lumber by the bdft to people whoi don't understand.  If you ask them if they are familiar with bdft,  they often say yes not wanting to admit they have no idea.

Just my thoughts on the deal

[Bill_G]

It's done on averages. You have to take the average log cost for all log grades, like now the average on Red Oak may come in at around $300. Then you have to figure your average for your lumber sales, bark , sawdust and chips. Also most mills will gain a percentage on the lumber sawn versus the log scale that they buy in on, like the international scale figures on a 1/4" kerf.

[Chico]

There 's no way you could make money esp in a big mill even producing the quanity to offset the costIt's like Ron said you'd need a scragg with a gang behind and dirt cheap logsBut And they don't buy enough overall to justify the cost of the machinery much less the labor ,freight etc. . And I still don't see the money I don't beleive you can but I've been wrong before . The way I figure my cost/profit Is log cost avg =X Lumber sales avg+ overrun =X Set costs =X variable labor mainly etc=X you take the logs the set cost the variable cost away from the lumber sales avg + the overrun   I still don't see any money in it you can sell 4x6 for more and I just don't see it even if you bought trash logs for a scragg your talking 150 at min then prod cost which stay the same whether you're cutting FAS or Pallet it can't tell . I 'm like someone else I think they're jerking him around jmo
Chico

[ely]

i got into this with my company that i work for. they needed x lumber for a project. i ask if i could cut it. they got a quote from a large mill, i gave them mine. they told me i could not cut it for what i quoted. i told them to add 200 bucks to my quote if they felt bad . then they pulled the old conflict of interest card on me.
you just cant win, so they paid me to drive 3 hours one way to pay 3 times too much for the same wood. then drive 8 hours to deliver it.