Stanley Meyer--Water Fuel Technology

[Fla._Deadheader]

  This post might take on political BS, but, I'm going to post it here, and see what happens.

  Anyone here ever heard of Stanley Meyer   He developed a system to run Internal Combustion engines, on plain tap water. He was murdered for not selling out the technology.

  Anyway, believe me or not, it makes no difference. It is also NOT Electrolysis.

  Point of this post, it IS about Alt. Energy, and, this interesting info about how technology is suppressed world wide. WFC is Water Fuel Cell. The company Stanley Meyer started.

  In Retrospect to Events

1. Purpose of Power Brokers: defame WFC publicly by whatever means to prevent financial and public support. Isolate Inventor to push for a possible buy out.

A classic pattern seems to always emerge, one that has been used many times to control, exploit, and even suppress new technology that is not under corporate domination. Corporations are specifically set up to take over and control high technology, worldwide. First and foremost directive, try to take over the inventor's work by whatever means possible. This includes buyout at the lowest price or filing blocking patents against the inventor. Attempt to get various regulatory organizations or the Internal Revenue Service to investigate the inventor with a resulting loss of financial resources and/or time. Harass the inventor with countless court cases to falsely claim that someone else owns and controls the technology, to prematurely force the inventor to reveal his work before patents are consummated. If a charge of fraud can be obtained, no matter what the circumstances, then use this to prevent further financial support in business and stop publicizing the technology publicly. Destroy/weaken the inventor's financial base if possible to increase the likelihood of a sellout. Try to obtain a third party or bogus agreements that can be used to provide a means to attempt to capture control of the technology by way of contractual loopholes.

[moonhill]

Conspiracist, you got to love 'em.  A lot of these inventors can keep a good secret.  If they could just get it out there.  I want to think there is some truth to these theories, it is better than Hollywood, at times.  My imagination can run on to no end.   Tesla is a good one, free energy for all, it is right there in the air all around us, it just needs to be harnessed.  Magnets is another area that is controversial, how did they move those big blocks of stone the pyramids are made up with.  Interesting topic.

Tim

[pineywoods]

Deadheader, this thing is still around. I have a book printed of the internet that goes into great detail. Claims it produces 2 different kinds of hydrogen  and describes how the cell is constructed. Some electronics involved. It is in fact electrolosis , nothing new. I did the same thing in 8th grade science class over 60 years ago. File this one in the same place as the 100 mpg carburators..

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Sorry Pineywoods. It has been proven in court and in worldwide labs, that, this is NOT electrolysis.  It is done in a whole new way, and the process is patented.

  I'm not posting this to start a pissing contest on whether this works or not. The post was to show HOW the money people can force an inventor to give up, and sell out their ideas for next to nothing.

  One process is to use 2.4 volts per cell and less than 1 amp, using a pulser, and a specially wound VIC (Variable input circuit), to fracture the water molecule. Yes, there ARE 3 classes of Hydrogen. There are also people running their Internal Combustion Engines using PLASMA as an enhancer, from injecting water vapor into the intake system. 

  Folks don't use the proper technology to "EXPLODE" water.  There ARE guys running engines solely on WATER as fuel.

  The information I posted in the beginning of this thread, is only the surface of what is corroding the Alternative Energy Drive to FREE ENERGY.

  I,myself, am headed in a totally new direction, that the Science books never tell you about. 

[Riles]

 Sorry Pineywoods. It has been proven in court and in worldwide labs, that, this is NOT electrolysis.  It is done in a whole new way, and the process is patented.

Actually it was proven in court to be a fraud. And there is no patent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Meyer

[Ianab]

Actually it does seem to be patented, but you dont need to prove a process actually works to register a patent.

The main problem is that it's actually a perpetual motion machine. If you can split up water, burn it in an engine, then catch the water and recycle it, then you have a closed circuit perpetual motion machine, that is actually producing energy.

So although the individual parts of the system may all work, you cant magically pull energy from nowhere which is what he was claiming.

If the patent exists then there is nothing to stop any other experimenter from replicating the machine. It's just they cant sell it without negotiating a licence to use the patent.

But the only time you see these things come up they are not actually extracting any free energy from anywhere, just free cash from gullible investors.

Ian

[Fla._Deadheader]

 

Actually it was proven in court to be a fraud

  WRONG

  Meyer put the machine up for testing, BUT, salt was added to the water, UNDER PROTEST from meyer.  The judge overseeing the whole matter, paid NO attention, and the test was altered. THEN, the same Judge ruled it a fraud.  The lawyer for the plaintiff, was the one that altered the water. Meyer had Investors AND world renowned people to speak as witnesses, but, they were never called, and the Judge issued the case a fraud, using as his reason, he was leaving on an IMPORTANT VACATION, right away, and did NOT have time to listen to more testimony.

  Meyer lodged a complaint with the proper authorities, and the judge was reprimanded, much later.

  I knew the point about this thread would be overlooked. 

  No problem. I DO know the people that are running engines on water, AND, I DO have a DVD in my possession proving the concept.

  Y'all just keep paying at the pump.  Also, do some research. DO NOT believe all you read on Wikipedia. We went down this road in another thread. 

[Paul_H]

Harold,

you used Meyer as an example and a starting place for discussion and it seems to be logical that his credibility would have to be established first.I don't want to pay at the pump so where would I find the court records that recorded the experiment? I think it would be a matter of public record so why couldn't the experiment be performed by anyone of us without a single grain of salt?

If I came up with something like Meyer did and was frustrated by government intervention and big business spooks,I would scatter the plans from one end of the world to the next for free as a gift to mankind.Why not,it's only money after all and he has no use for it now anyways.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Hi Paul 

  There ARE no verifiable court records. Seems the JUDGE deemed that the audio recording system was acting up, and HAD IT TURNED OFF .  THAT is what is used to back up court testimony and is used to listen to all testimony, to cypher out incorrect info.

  You probably won't find THAT written in Wikipedia.

  Let me see if I can re-locate the entire court proceedings, as told by witnesses as to what actually took place.

  Be back in a while. 

  EDIT:  Here ya go, Paul.

  [link

[SwampDonkey]

Hey Harold,

I never seen it on "American Experience" or "Nova" yet, so it can't be true can it?

Sorry, I gotta torment a little.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Mr. Donk, Sir 

  There has been SO MUCH bad info put out, and so many scammers looking for big fast bux, the true info is all being thought of as bunk. Notice all the naysayers around

  Fact IS, a Dr. in the Phillipines has been ORDERED to stop teaching about HIS car that runs solely on water.

  Stanley Meyer was murdered.

  Many of Stanley's papers went missing right after his death.

  His Brother is VERY close mouthed about Stan's work, yet, he was VERY involved.

  Another guy from Malaysia has been gagged from teaching about HIS car that runs solely on water.

  A guy started a Website-Forum, and was so harrassed, once GOOD stuff was being shown, he had to let someone else in another COUNTRY take over the site.  This guy NOW DOES have a Dune Buggy that runs solely on water as fuel.

[moonhill]

Here is an 11 part series on free energy.  I find the clash between Tesla and J.P. Morgan interesting. 



Tim

[slowzuki]

I'd have to stay Stanley was a fraud as well.  Water is one of the lowest energy states for hydrogen and oxygen to be in.  Thats why we have so much of it and almost no free hydrogen just floating around our planet. 

To get energy out of water without adding a fuel, you need to transform it into another form with a lower energy state when you discharge it.  This doesn't exist that I know of.

[Gary_C]

Without even evaluating the scientific aspects of this invention, like repealing the laws of thermodynamics and proving Einstein and others as being wrong, just the practical aspects of patents and their use would say this is not believable. I know enough about patents to know that one of the requirements in obtaining a patent is full disclosure of your ideas and listing them as claims. If they are not fully disclosed, the ideas are not covered by the patent. The process does not have to actually work to get a patent, but will have little value if others cannot duplicate your work.

Next problem is that some mysterious person or group cannot quiet a patent by murdering the inventor. The patent, if any good, will survive.

And finally, if the patent is good, there are far better ways to take it than by killing the holder. Anyone with deep pockets can just ignore your patent and make you defend it in court, and that defense can cost upwards of six figures and perhaps higher. And there are some US Circuit Courts that have a history of striking down most of the patents that are brought before them. So an inventor with a good workable patent must be prepared to spend hundreds of thousand dollars and face the very real prospect of losing his patent and money too.

Sounds like Mr. Meyer and friends are suffering from this:

Paranoia is a thought process characterized by excessive anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion. Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs concerning a perceived threat towards oneself. In the original Greek, παράνοια (paranoia) simply means madness (para = outside; nous = mind). Historically, this characterization was used to describe any delusional state.

Paranoia is often associated with psychotic illnesses, sometimes schizophrenia, although attenuated features may be present in other primarily non-psychotic diagnoses, such as paranoid personality disorder and obsessive compulsive disorder. Paranoia can also be a side effect of medication or recreational drugs such as marijuana and particularly stimulants such as methamphetamine and crack cocaine. In the unrestricted use of the term, common paranoid delusions can include the belief that the person is being followed, poisoned or loved at a distance.

There are medications that can help with this disorder or perhaps they should stop smoking that weed. 

[ErikC]

  Nothing to add either way, but I am enjoying reading this thread. Hope it goes on a while. .
 
  Gary your post reminds me of that common saying  "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you"  Actually this whole topic.

[moonhill]

Flat Earthers, and the sun traveled around the earth, old beliefs that are now laughable.   There are some that are beginning to break through Einstein's work, opening new doors.   

Tim

[Fla._Deadheader]

 It's really strange how people think.

  The common census is " The water has to be broken down by other energy uses to make it feasible".  "There is NO free ride."  "IF it was possible, WE would already be doing it".  "It defies the laws of Physics".

  Funny how "CRUDE OIL" has to be DRILLED for. Then, transported to a refinery, sometimes half way around the world, and it even causes environmental catastrophic damages. Then, it is refined. Then it is mixed to make different blends of fuel and used for plastics and such. Then, it is transported to distribution centers. Then, it is transported to filling stations. Is THIS a "FREE RIDE " 

  Stanley never patented the WHOLE process as 1 operation. He patented many PARTS of the process. You have to be smart to understand his IDEA, to put all the pieces together. People worldwide are sharing ideas on how this all works. SOON, it will be known to the masses. He worked with some brilliant people who are experts in their field.

  Has anyone ever "EXPLODED WATER"   I have. It scares the hell out of you, the first time it happens.  It takes nothing but high voltage and MILLIAMPS, to do this.

  The process requires a few electronic parts, but, once the parts are bought and assembled, NO MORE COST, other than the voltage, from a transformer and your car battery.

  YES, it will take a little voltage from that battery. Remember there is "NO FREE RIDE".

  As a for instance, I have discussed this with more than 1 FF member, on how MODERN electronic stuff works on car engines.  I have been experimenting and in contact with people around the world. Y'all are gonna be VERY surprised, VERY soon. 

  Now, I need some metal working machinery, and I can start making this technology available. IT IS already being done, and recorded on Youtube. 

[moonhill]

Just because a Law in set, does not mean it is the end, we cannot discover more, laws are broken.   

I don't know if this is totally on subject, from my perspective it is fitting.  It is 5 parts and you may have to look for the next 4, they are at the bottom.



I am looking forward to your results.

Tim

[trim4u2nv]

There are studies that use wind turbines to generate hydrogen and store hydrogen during peak times as well as sell excess energy on the national grid.  So don't write off the use of electricity to generate hydrogen just yet.

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2005/04/22_postt_windtohydrogen/

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Unfortunately, I can't view the videos. WE have dial-up, and, it would take over an hour to download them, at a stiff cost. We are charged extra for "Over minutes used". 

  Second, the Wind generator thing is fine, BUT, THAT is Brute Force Electrolysis. that is NOT what I have been describing here. '' It is also very difficult and expensive to "STORE" Hydrogen. It passes right through steel tanks.

   Read the Courtroom explanation. It was RULED it is NOT Electrolysis that Meyer developed.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Here is THEE Perfect example of what I'm trying to get across with this thread.

 

So I own an 89 civic with a blown gas engin, 4 speed manual trany- runs great. I have been looking fir a gas engin, but hear I could do EV for cheaper. I don't know if this is true. I new to the whole thing not sure if I understand everything correctly. I was thinking of going AC for the motor because I have some fair size hills to treck on occation, and heard they are better for the pick up. I want to be able to get at least 600km or 370 miles. I was thinking of rigging a small genorator (with a "auto shut off" when the batteries reach max charge) and wondering if I can charge the batteries fast enough to only run it when I'm parked if I'm going on long trips. I had also thought of using a hydrogen geny (as many as needed) to charge the batteries, cuz I heard I can use water to power them. But I'm not sure how practical that will be. So ya that's basically where I stand. I do have some mechanical, and electrical know how, however I don't know all the terms well, but am confident with my skills. My big thing though is cost. I need this to be as cheep as posible. Around the $600 CND others wise I'm just as far to go with gas. I want the electric for the money saving benifit, and "low maintinence" from my understanding. So ya any advice, including "run away now, far, far away" works for me. To sum it up I'm looking for cheep, simple, easy to do, and dummy English please.

  This guy is now of the opinion that Electric Cars are not practical, either. 

  AND THEN, after a reply that what he wants to do will not be possible OR practical, he adds this.

 

However, in your/anyones opinion is going with a small gas or fuel cell generator a good idea, and if so which would be recomended. My ubderstandin is that fuel cells are light, "easy" to make, and with enough can give me the power I need.

 

[SwampDonkey]

That the fellow that quit trucking, bought a horse and built a wagon, covered it, put a stove in it and spend the winter down along the river a couple years ago? Living in the rough became old news by about April the following spring. Well since we're telling stories, one more won't hurt.  

[trim4u2nv]

There are safer methods to store and utilize hydrogen gas.  Similar to how acetylene is stored in acetone within cutting torch tanks.  Constant problems with leakage on the space shuttle and the explosive effects can be worked around.  Just look at the brainpower at NASA.  They still manage to get these birds flying launch after launch, even with technical difficulties.

Sodium_tetrahydroborate can carry hydrogen 10 percent by weight for storage.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Point is, you don't NEED to store Hydrogen. That all adds to the expense of utilizing it. 

  MR. Donk, Sir.,  That stuff I Quoted was from a Canadiense. 

[trim4u2nv]

It will be interesting to see what most vehicles will use for fuel in 25 years.  Just like beta and VHS and DVD.  Bottom line is hopefully GM, Ford, Chrysler, GE, Siemens get a piece of the action.  I want to know which stock to buy!

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Ford-Siemens already Blew it.  They developed a GOOD electric motor. it uses AC and is a per4fect match for average sized cars. They did nearly the same as GM, and, will NOT sell to private car conversion garages, and, now, have taken the controller away from the market. Want to buy just the motor from a private stock $2000.00 with NO controller available

  This motor would make 100+ miles per charge VERY practical, BUT, the package for a new car, like the Tesla, as $125,000.00, and, that's a sport Roadster  

  GM took back nearly ALL the EV-1's and CRUSHED them. A VERY few escaped crushing, even though users BEGGED to buy the cars, after the lease ran out.

  Won't bother ME if GM goes out of business 

[SwampDonkey]

 Point is, you don't NEED to store Hydrogen. That all adds to the expense of utilizing it. 

  MR. Donk, Sir.,  That stuff I Quoted was from a Canadiense. 

I know, I can tell from the language. I hear it every day.

[Ianab]

My problem with this WFC is  - Where is the Energy actually coming from?

Every other form of Alternative Energy (That actually works anyway) the 'energy trail' canbe followed. Bio-Fuel, wind, solar, wave power, hamsters on a wheel etc. In all cases you can work out where the original energy is being 'collected' and converted into some other form.

In the case of this Fuel Cell, you start with water, you do something to it (that requires an energy input). This produces Hydrogen and Oxygen. Then you burn this fuel, obtain an energy output, and end up with water coming out the engine exhaust. The water hasn't been changed, but energy has been created.

So where has this extra free energy come from? Has it been created by magic pixies? A mini-black hole? Sucked from a parallel universe? If has to have come from someplace.

If that can be explained, then we have all learned something new, and I'll be the first to put on a tinfoil hat and start building one.

But while it's just a 'Secret Patented Process' that only the now dead inventor understood, then it's as dubious as any of the other scams that are the plauge of the whole alternative energy scene.

If we can cut through the scams, conspiracy theories and general tinfoil hat stuff and find the things that really work, then we make some progress.

Ian

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Let me TRY to explain, Ian.

  NOTHING is 100% efficient, except for heatpumps. 

  BASIC Electrolysis is just as you described. It is called Brute Force. When Electrolysis is being used, a certain percentage goes to waste. When Hydrogen is used as a fuel, as in a car engine, as it heats from the cylinder temp, it expands. This increases the power of the hydrogen gas. Once it fires, the gas is sent out the exhaust. In the exhaust pipe, the spent gas is cooled, and "condences", as water. Every running ENGINE does this. Watch your exhaust pipe, and see the water dripping out. This is BASICALLY, how the water is re-used.

  It gets more technical, and, I am not able to put it in the exact words to get the whole point across.

  For example, Meyer's system has been modified so much, it has completely changed the concept he was struggling to perfect. He is NOT doing "Electrolysis".  He is actually "tearing apart" the water molecule. It is a very different system, and therefore, requires much less CURRENT.

  In order for me to explain all this, y'all would have to do some research. THEN, you would see where this technology is coming from.

  Perpetual motion is, once something gets in motion, it will never stop.

  This is NOT perpetual motion. You DO have to add water occasionally, to the reservoir, and you DO, have to use electricity, but, VERY LITTLE.

  People see this "reuse the water and you are good to go", as the ultimate deal. It is NOT that way.

  Think "Lightning Storm". Where does all the energy come from to create the lightning  

  What people don't realize is, there is so much more power in the more enhanced stages of Hydrogen, that it does NOT take near as much of the gas to run the inefficient engine.

[Paul_H]

I'm enjoying the thread,Harold and I like the youtubes posted by moonhill.Watched the whole thing last night.I try and keep a open mind.
I'm a doubting Thomas on these things too in that I'd want to see the contraptions first hand and have a good look and pull it apart before buying anything but I keep in mind that the concepts of x rays and sattelite communications or fighting disease with mold would have gotten a person burned at the stake a few short centuries ago.Every generation of man seems to think they are a heck of a lot smarter than the generations that came before.

Who knows,maybe windmill to catch the solar winds.

[SwampDonkey]

"I fail to understand why it always gives you pleasure to see me proven wrong."

"An emotional Earth weakness of mine."

[Paul_H]

I thought your weakness was bland tasting Buckwheat Pancakes and penny pinchin?

[SwampDonkey]

Strengths lad, strengths.

[Paul_H]

Och,Aye,strengths indeed.

[moonhill]

Harold, are you saying lighting or its energy is coming from the water vapor in the air? 

Tim

[Ianab]

Thing is I have done some research, and no-one has been able to explain properly how the system works.

If you are talking about adding a little hydrogen and or water to a combustion chamber to increase the efficiency of the engine.. then maybe. However I dont believe there is any significant gain to be had there. There was a fad here a while back, but the engines didn't actually gain any power or economy.

I'm fully aware there are things I dont understand about the world around us. Maybe Cold Fusion will work one day, or mini-black holes, or dark matter engines.. or something that we dont know exists. But different forms of hydrogen that can be created by modified electrolosis (sorry thats what it is)... I'm still a skeptic.

The thunderstom generator?  You can trace it's power source back to hydrogen fusion in the sun. Like most forms of energy on the earth.

Hydrogen fusion heats the sun. - Heat enery
Sun radiates heat and light. - Electromagnetic radiation
Sunlight hits the earth and warms it up. - Heat energy
Warm earth heats up the air - Heat energy still
Warm air rises and creates convection systems - Mechanical energy in the moving storn system
Movement creates static electical charge in ice crystals in the cloud - Electrical potential. Like stroking a cat, a really really BIG cat.
Lightning discharge - Electrical power flow.
Normally that goes into heating the air, making light and noise, and blowing up trees. Heat and mechanical energy again.

If you can capture some of that flow, maybe with a lightninig rod and a BIG capacitor?, then you have just collected some of that energy. But it's originally come from hydogen fusion in the sun. Lots of losses in the system, but some energy gets through all the stages.

Take away the sun, the whole earth freezes solid and there is no atmosphere, no thunderstorms, and no lightning.

Thats what I mean about tracing where the energy trail comes from and goes to.

Ian

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Ian, I am not a career scientist. What you have written is probably true. I don't argue over things I don't know or understand.

  What I am saying is, I am not pushing "Free Energy".  If the Sun is causing all what you say it is, then, seems to me, we have to learn to capture some of the effects.

  The example I gave about Crude Oil, being OK, but, separating Hydrogen from water is NOT OK, is what gets to me.
 
  If you take a piece of PVC Pipe, 1½" in dia, X 10" long, cap both ends, and wrap many turns of magnet wire around it, you have a "Magnetic" Electrolyser. Fill the pipe with saturated KOH, and have a 90° barbed elbow screwed into each end, Then connect a water line to one end, and a tube going to another container on the other, you have a system that will produce NEARLY PURE Hydrogen. You will also need a small circuit to enhance the electrical part.  Where does the Oxygen go

  Run that tube into the empty container, but fill the container ½ full, you now have a bubbler system that will prevent back-pressure explosions of that Hydrogen. Seal the top, and run a tube from there to a small engine, and you WILL assist it in running on less gasoline.

  Ian, about the "FAD", you are partly correct. It was presented as a cure-all, which WAS ridiculous. However, a modern, electronically controlled engine will self adjust the fuel mixture being fed to the cylinders, because the HHO (Hydrogen-Oxygen mix) will show more oxygen in the fuel vapor, and the Sensor signals the computer, and it will adjust with adding MORE gasoline.

  I was corresponding with Ron Wenrich about this very thing, and, he talked with others, and decided to NOT make mechanical adjustments to his sensors. He actually experienced the lesser MPG in his Toyota truck.

  Another member of the FF, made the "Smacks Booster", which I don't have ANY faith in, and, he experienced a slight INCREASE in MPG, in his Ford Diesel Truck.  Diesels don't monitor O2, I don't think

  Another thing, you have to add the Hydrogen as close to the cylinder as possible, OR, it WILL recombine with Oxygen in the air, and you loose the benefit of the HYDROGEN.

  It IS really that simple to understand the basics of Hydrogen in ICE Engines.

  I can provide links to videos that SHOW engines running on HHO, and there is NO gas tank and NO Carburetor on the engine. It IS a lawnmower, which should be VERY difficult to start, let alone run on HHO alone.

  Anyone ever put Galvanized metal in a 5 gallon bucket, after putting a gallon of Sulphuric (Battery) acid in the bucket   It will make nearly PURE HYDROGEN, strip the steel for selling as salvage, and you can put the iron Oxide created, right in your garden.

  I have the video of that, also, and they guy runs a tube over to his car, and runs the car on the output of the tube.    For some stupid reason, I can't get the sound to come up on the Computer, so, I can't tell you EXACTLY what the guy is saying.  I will, take any advice I can get, so I can listen to that DVD. I HAVE heard it on another computer, so, I know the sound is on the DVD.

[moonhill]

Speaking of the Sun, isn't it a perpetual motion machine?

Harold, is that video available at a web site?

Tim

[Fla._Deadheader]

 No Tim, its not.
 I had it downloaded when I was in Florida the last time. The guy mailed me a copy, from Alaska, but, several people never got their copy, so, someone got permission from the guy to do a torrent to allow anyone to download it.

  I will get the link to the website it is located on, to do the download.

[PineNut]

If anyone wants to try this out, they need to get busy. I suspect that it will only work on the first day of April

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Here's the link for EVERYONE to read at.

  Link]

[Ianab]

Speaking of the Sun, isn't it a perpetual motion machine?

Nope - it's a hydrogen fusion reactor. It's probably got about 4 billion years of hydrogen left before it runs out and then all sorts of interesting and spectacular things happen before it collapes into a cold dwarf star and fizzles out.

Harold

I have no problems with running an engine on Hydrogen in whatever form. It's a very reactive fuel as you observe when you light up a bit of it coming off a hydrogen generator. The problem is how you generate it for less energy than the hydrogen can produce. If the generator had to sit in the sunlight, or had a lump of uranium in it, or you put bananas skins into a 'Mr Fusion' box, then you have a source of this energy.

Otherwise you are doing something 'over unity' and getting energy for free.

Ian

[Ron Wenrich]

  I was corresponding with Ron Wenrich about this very thing, and, he talked with others, and decided to NOT make mechanical adjustments to his sensors. He actually experienced the lesser MPG in his Toyota truck.

Actually, it was more like there was no difference in the MPG.  I didn't fool with the computer system to make any adjustments.  My problem with the computer would have been whether any increase was from the computer adjustments rather than the hydrogen.  Besides, I'm a little mechanically declined.   

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Last post. 

E=mc^2

E = energy in Joules
m = mass of a gallon of water in kg
c = light speed constant 299 792 458 m / s

E = 3.785*(299 792 458)^2
E = 3.4 x 10^17 J = energy in a gallon of water

Barrel of oil = 6.1178632 × 10^9 J
(6.1178632 × 10^9 *44000) = 2.69 x 10^14 J = energy from HFP

2.69 x 10^14 / 3.4 x 10^17 * 100 = 0.079%

which is amazing... with 3785 cubic centimeters of water, you convert 0.079% to pure energy = 3 cc's of water used up, and you get more energy than you'll every need Tongue

basically, you don't have to have a very efficient HFP set up to get amazing results, I'm not even going to ask you to imagine 1% efficient because 0.079% is hard enough to grasp!

anyway i don't want to get off topic of your flying car, but yes, you can fly rockets and jets and boats off this

[moonhill]

Ian, now really, 4 billion years,  that is perpetual in my book.  No person had to start it up and there is nothing we can do to influence it.   Yes, it does have a predicted end, but it is just out of reason to think that far into the future.   It is perpetual as far as our existence is concerned.   No?

Tim

[StorminN]

I know a couple of local guys that are making the "brute force" electrolyzers... one came by the shop today. He's only been running his cell in his FourRunner for a couple of weeks now, but he told me he calculated he's getting an extra 30% mpg or so... he's still tinkering with his cell. It's straight 12V to a set of stainless plates, all sandwiched together (between a couple of snowboard scraps!) and a water / KOH solution in there. I think he said it is pulling about 10A warm, he's been adjusting the KOH mixture to vary the amp draw.

He said he'd build me one for my Subaru or my sawmill (VW motor) when he finished the two he's working on (one for his Subaru and one for his 4-wheeler). I keep a notebook and keep track of my mileage on the Subaru on every fill up (and I fill at the same exact pump almost every single time), so if it happens, I should be able to get some good data.

This is NOT the Meyer setup, neither on is using a pulsing circuit or trying to reach the harmonics of the water molecules... they are not there yet...

-Norm.

[Ianab]

Ian, now really, 4 billion years,  that is perpetual in my book.  No person had to start it up and there is nothing we can do to influence it.   Yes, it does have a predicted end, but it is just out of reason to think that far into the future.   It is perpetual as far as our existence is concerned.   No?

Tim

It's still not perpetual motion - it is using something up. It just has a REAL BIG fuel tank. Perpetual motion suggests that energy is not being lost, or is being created from some other source. Thats not that case with the sun, it will run down some time in the distant future. I dont think this is going to be a problem for you or me of course.

Ian

[moonhill]

On such a big scale, I would ask, is it truly being used up?   Everything has to come for some where.  Our cosmos is hardly understandable, what happens when it has burned out?  Is that the end of it?  I want to think it will continue on in some other state, unknown to our existence.   Yea, I know I am digging a hole, with no ground to stand on .  I hear ya, Ian.

I don't want this to detract form the topic at hand, Stanley Meyer.  I hear so many neigh sayers just scoffing at the idea, it is interesting to see it being followed. 

Tim

 

[Dana]

I don't want this to detract form the topic at hand, Stanley Meyer.  I hear so many neigh sayers just scoffing at the idea, it is interesting to see it being followed. 

Tim

Tim, I kind of felt the same with the thread I posted on the three phase converter my neighbor owns. It's too bad that we have all become so skeptical of new ideas. I like the quote from Arthur Schopenhauer on FlaDeadheader's post's. He lived between 1788 and 1860 and must have had good reason to come up with that statement.

[StorminN]

EDIT - whoops

[Fla._Deadheader]

 I said last post, but. Stormin, go to the link I provided, and try to get on the "URGENT thread.

  Either that, or, try to get on GMeast posts. He (Greg) has refined the Plasma spark, and runs his VW Van on it, WITHOUT electrolysis. He drips water on the flat inside his intake tube, and flashes that off as it enters the cylinders. He is saying a 14-16 MPG increase, IF my brain is not crossed up, again.

  Only takes a drip, NOT a gallon.

  These guys just do NOT understand the amount of energy that can be released from a drop of water.  NO ONE  has mentioned exploding of water. It's pretty easy to experiment with. Just read that Plasma thread. It's pretty long, but, a lot of redundance with quoting.

  No more interest, and no more posts. 

[Smokey]

NO ONE  has mentioned exploding of water.

I've witnessed exploding water on several occasions, I work in stone masonry and have built many fire places out granite. The 3rd one I did was made with rocks from the lake and incidentally the owner couldn't wait to use the fireplace and the heat caused the water in one of the larger stones to change to steam and it couldn't escape fast enough and pulverized it into rock sending it everywhere, even a piece roughly the size of a human head over 50 away,bit of a hill to help after it went though the bay window. But an amazing energy release!(never again will I use rock form the water,just the manure covered ones for me now )

PI heard that's a major problem with steam engines is exploding, do to pressure build up.

Smokey

Ps my friend met a guy the other day who modified an old truck to run on hydrogen he described it as the metal plate  contraption with battery hook up.  He got the guys # so were going to check it out and get all the details.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Hi Smokey

  We are talking about 2 separate things.

  I was talking about spraying a very light mist of plain water onto a spark plug, and hitting that plug with very high voltage at the same time.

  You are talking about steam rupturing the material from pressure build up. BIG difference.

  The guy you mention, is probably making HHO GAS with an electrolyser, and using that to feed into the manifold. That is a very poor efficiency of using HHO gas.

  Please report back with what you find out from the guy.

[slowzuki]

Who ever created the E=mc^2 reference, its completely unapplicable in an internal combustion engine.  There are no nuclear reactions taking place inside the engine and at least so far, every claim to cold fusion has been a sorry disappointment once it hit a peer review (and they are talking about making nano-hp in lab cold fusion)

[Ernie]

Conspiracist, you got to love 'em.  A lot of these inventors can keep a good secret.  If they could just get it out there.  I want to think there is some truth to these theories, it is better than Hollywood, at times.  My imagination can run on to no end.   Tesla is a good one, free energy for all, it is right there in the air all around us, it just needs to be harnessed.  Magnets is another area that is controversial, how did they move those big blocks of stone the pyramids are made up with.  Interesting topic.

Tim

This is how they built the pyramids and Stonehenge 

[rowerwet]

I work with a guy who is crazy about stanley myers, he had his old 78' ford pickup set up with his "invention" and it supposedly got 25 mpg with a big v8 engine. He had to remove all the technology to pass inspection last winter, and hasn't put it back on yet.
According to what he told me it is electrolosis of water, but with the electricity pulsed at a frequency that resonates with the water molecule, causing it to split at a very low amperage. His truck had a five gallon tank for water, he said he filled it once a week (except during the winter couldn't use it as water would freeze). He has a two hour drive from his house to work.
He told me the technology will not work with EFI and Emissons controls, so the engine must be carborated. He is looking for a small car that has a carb to do this on next.
Last I knew he was trying to run his furnace using the same system.
The big breakthrough is that the oxygen and hydrogen get you a complete fuel burn, modern cars emissions systems keep a certain amount of gas unburned in the exhaust to burn in the catalytic converter so the computer just adjusts for the extra burn and you loose the big break through.
I asked my dad about the idea and he said it has possibility, He told me about one of the jobs he did as an engeneer back when I was a kid. The turbine wheels in the space shuttle main engines kept blowing apart, the centers had liquid hydrogen flowing up through them (being pumped by the wheel) and the outer edges had flaming hydrogen and oxygen blowing through them to spin the turbine. burning hydrogen will eat away the metal in the turbine wheels so they were coated in gold. His company had to put strain guages on the wheels and see where they were failing, so the first thing they did to each wheel He tested was to sand blast the gold off of it.
If burning hydrogen and oxygen are that reactive to metal, imagine what it will do to the inside of your engine. I don't think you engine is coated inside with gold, I know alcohol in gasoline can cause detonation which can burn through a piston (I've seen it before), we will have to see how those cars modified for this set up last.
The other problem, stanley signed agreements that he couldn't sell his technology, you can find plans and make your own system, but you can't sell cars or even most components. The guy at work does avionics on airplanes for a living so he knows how to do all the electronics for the splitter(square wave pulse generator), he says it is the hardest part and it burns out after a short while, I looked at the schematic for the splitter and it was something I would never tackle due to the complexity and the cost of parts.
I would love to see one in action.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Latest report is, The electrolysis ?? cell, is not needed. People have been fixating on HHO and have NOT kept up with Meyer's technology. HHO CAN be effective, IF introduced INTO the cylinder, NOT into the manifold. A small amount of HHO is sufficient to run an engine.

  I might have the numbers mixed up, BUT, it only takes 400ML of HHO gas in a 400 cc cylinder. I will check on the numbers to verify.
 Problem IS, if the HHO is mixed in the manifold, it gets diluted with outside air, and is not very effective. It needs to be INJECTED directly into the cylinder.

  Meyer ended up using an injector and specially designed Spark plug, to run his Buggy on "EXPLODED AIR MIST, not HHO as such. Go to Energetic Forum for the latest reports.

  Edit: Just checked the other site and it is under "Heavy" maintenance.   Be back next week    There are several people that have been told by various governments to STOP passing this type info to others and that site was one of them. Guy in the US started the site and then gave it to another guy, in England after being harrassed.

  Y'all believe what you want.

[moonhill]

Ernie, interesting theory that fellow has.  If he had a few slaves running back and forth to respective places they could raise the block in the air quickly. It is the distance and weight of the 20+ ton blocks that has me befuddled.  The pyramids are located all over the world, why were numerous cultures building such structures? 

Of all web sites to be shut down, there is other smut out there doing more harm.  If it works great, if it doesn't where is the harm?  The harm is to big oil just as it is to the little guy that puts cash out for a scam, a catch 22. 

Tim

[Fla._Deadheader]

 The smut doesn't take away the control. Just think for a minute, how many $$ would be lost to BIG Business, by people owning their own power generation devices.

  Large cities may be difficult to employ individual devices, but, smaller towns and rural folks would be out from under control.

  Read on here, maybe, in Utah ??, the people are being taxed for all the rain that falls on their roofs, and, you are NOT supposed to use it   

  I may be preaching, but, the people in the USA especially, have GOT to take control back.
 Look at all the Idiotic "Rules", not exactly laws, that have been "adopted", not legislated.

  New Battery technology has gotten, where, a Geo sized electric car can get 100 miles per charge, at an almost affordable price for MOST people. Magnetic motors are in existance by inventors. Where is the Corporate version   WHO needs them to take control, anyway   Electric motors are inefficient, by wasting part of their electrical field.

  I'm telling y'all, get into the Alternate Energy Forums, and SEE what is being developed. Go to youtube, if you have fast Internet , and watch these things, before Govt has them removed from the site.

[StorminN]

New Battery technology has gotten, where, a Geo sized electric car can get 100 miles per charge, at an almost affordable price for MOST people.

Yep, that battery technology was here and available for purchase 10 years ago. A guy in my town has one of two Toyota Rav4EV's in WA State... car STILL gets almost 100 miles on a charge on 10 year old NiMh batteries, which are OLD technology at this point... of course, we can't buy those big NiMh batteries now, the technology was bought up by GM, who sold it to Texaco / Chevron and they won't let it go... Large NiMh battery Wackopedia link

-Norm.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 That's the "Control" thing I keep talking about, Norm. 

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Here is a piece written by a very well known experimenter, in Magnetics. He has developed several motors, "free" energy devices, and other things.

  It is written about how "THEY" have taken away things, pressured others, the latest being this "Mylow" person.

  Y'all don't have to believe any of it. I have seen some of the things, on video  , although that "Could" be clever editing. I will know, FOR SURE, very soon.

  Here is the piece.
 

I don't talk very much about different things. But I feel that I must say this
to you. Mylow should have started a group long ago and had all the skeptics goof
everything up like they did the SG, some times it's better to take that kick in
the pants and not say anything to anybody about your sad moments.

I know you have built magnetic motors which did not work, you claimed the SG did
not work but so what, as others did get it to work and are very happy. The
mistake with Mylow is he did not have any protection because he did not have
enough failures in the public groups like I did.

I now sit back and thank you for all the public attacking of my machine with
all the negative comments, people only half to look at that group to see the
bashing that has gone on with a simple invention.

As Mylow found out changing things only causes failure and it is reported that
way, that is protection and "THEY" do not come looking then.

If you remember their are DVD's on Howard Johnson, books and associated
articles. Anybody can make this work at a very limited level, no power and low
speed, a real true magnet motor has a speed of 5000 RPM's and "THEY" will take
that from you and you will never talk again about it.

Mylow's machine does prove over unity of >1 but you could not take any power
from that. What I see is that the only hope that people have at this time
because of mind blocks in physics is solar panels, wind machines, water power,
and combustion. We have not even got out of the dark ages in the way we think.
We are all brainwashed into thinking physics is just one way only, what a
mistake. What would happen if all the power systems would fail today what would
you do?

What is free energy since nothing is free out there, it cost for everything and
you must pay for it with phony money you work hard for.

Mylow is lucky as MIB's do not take things from you and then bring them back you
get two choices in life, MONEY or DEATH, this was not the secret people in black
taking things away because you never talk again about it, Mylow is now branded
as a quack, just like Howard Johnson. I did follow his progress and only to see
all the skeptics appear and try to build his vision of Howard Johnson's motor,
they changed it so now it does not work, that is next attack.

The magnets are very easy to make no big deal as regular horseshoe magnet work
the same, it's just a spacing difference but must be setup the same.

Just wait until the great Obama change takes effect, no money, no food, no
energy, just candles for light, if you can get them and many homeless walking
the streets. "NO ENERGY FOR YOU"

What Mylow saw as a wave was magnetic streams no electrons at all, since there
are none and no one has ever seen one, yes pure magnetic streams with all the
power of the universe at one's finger tips.
My heart goes out to Mylow and his family for his hard work but the mistake is
already made.

[rowerwet]

the issue with large NIMH batteries could be just as simple as the scale, cost and resources involved in producing these batteries, it doesn't have to be a conspiracy, especialy as noted in the wiki post that they are interested in selling to car manufacturers, in large volume, it costs a lot to produce these batteries and the cost will go up a huge amount if you only make a few at at time. Just look at our millitary and how much it costs to produce just a few aircraft a year instead of a few a month like is planned when the contracts are bid. You have the cost of the building, tooling, parts, and labor (you gonna lay off people between work days? it still will cost you especialy if you are dealing with a union) to make a small amount when you have to set up a large facility (and most buyers will want a custom product not take someone elses design for size weight or power rating) gets to be ridiculously expensive. This is part of the reason the military ended up with over priced toilet seats and hammers, they were not standard size or weight  and some were made of custom materials, you couldn't just crank them out on an assembly line as they only bought 60  or 120 (like for the coffe maker on the C-5 galaxy aircraft it had to work in a custom space and had other requirements that made it cost a ridiculous amount of money, and then they only made 60 some C-5 aircraft) (the same thing with the new C-17 transport congress is only buying 3 a year so you get a huge cost for each as Boeing has to keep an assembly line open to only make 3 aircraft a year, unlike the 737 line which makes more planes than that a month)

[StorminN]

the issue with large NIMH batteries could be just as simple as the scale, cost and resources involved in producing these batteries

This could be true, I don't know the numbers... but whatever the cause, it seems a little weird that Li-Ion / LiFePO4 batteries are soon going to surpass NiMh batteries in popularity in vehicles, even though NiMh are supposedly cheaper to build... the thing is, LiFePO4 batteries don't have patents owned by Chevron, and they're being built in China... who's to say?

-Norm.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 GM bought the rights to NiMh, then sold it to Chevron.    Now, the Govt is trying to bail out GM. Get the picture 

[rowerwet]

I do have to say that  based on my cordless power tool experience, NiMh has a lower power to weight than LiPo, it also will develop a memory unless drained before recharges, and cold will drain it where LiPo doesn't seem to be afected. LiPo will go into thermal runaway easier though so each battery needs a chip to monitor its discharge state. Both are better than lead acid which is what the prius and insight use as far as I know.

[StorminN]

I do have to say that  based on my cordless power tool experience, NiMh has a lower power to weight than LiPo, it also will develop a memory unless drained before recharges, and cold will drain it where LiPo doesn't seem to be afected. LiPo will go into thermal runaway easier though so each battery needs a chip to monitor its discharge state. Both are better than lead acid which is what the prius and insight use as far as I know.

I've had the same experience, and I've also noticed on my Milwaukee Li-Ion tools that if the batteries are cold, say 25F... when I first use the tool, it will run slow... but then after a few seconds of running slow, if I stop and start the tool again, the battery seems to "wake up" and act normally and the tool runs as normal...

The Prius and Insight both use NiMh packs... believe it or not, the Insight uses only 128 "D" cells! IIRC that's 8ah @ 144VDC for the Insight and 6.5Ah @ 275VDC for the Prius...

-Norm.