Author Topic: I'll kick myself when someone tells me what tree this is (Read 1934 times)

Woolywolf · « **on:** March 12, 2009, 04:39:33 pm »

This one has got me completely baffled. It's a little understory tree with evergreen leaves and minutely toothed/crenate margins. The leaves don't have any smell to them, and the underside of the leaf is pubescent. It looks like it has opposite branching--at times--and at times alternate branching that could be tightly clustered. A few leaves are turning a purplish color and dropping. Deer have been chomping on the leaves.

It was found on a piedmont soil with pines (loblolly) and lots of hardwoods--northern red oak, beech, yellow poplar--on a north facing slope close to a little intermitent stream. I thought that maybe it was Gordonia Lasianthus, but the habitat doesn't seem to fit what it is ussually in, and the underside of the leaves are pubescent. Any ideas?

DanG · « **Reply #1 on:** March 12, 2009, 04:47:43 pm »

Some sort of a Bay, perhaps?

ely · « **Reply #2 on:** March 12, 2009, 05:17:04 pm »

looks like a rhododenron or ever how you spell that. the leaves look like a fruit tree though.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #3 on:** March 12, 2009, 06:16:19 pm »

Might not even be evergreen, some shrubs/trees can retain old leaves until spring in milder climates. I've seen red huckleberry do it on the north coast of BC. That sure reminds me of a viburnum. I know it ain't wild raisin, leaf stem isn't winged, but what about blackhaw? Took me a while to figure out where I seen that structure and leaf underside. There are probably other viburnums not in my book, but that's got to be the genus.

Chico · « **Reply #4 on:** March 12, 2009, 07:32:59 pm »

I agree with DanG looks like a bay tree to me
Chico

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #5 on:** March 12, 2009, 07:52:57 pm »

Could very well be, leaf looks kinda dull and broad though. But, sometimes them Audubon pictures are much to be desired.

fishpharmer · « **Reply #6 on:** March 12, 2009, 08:27:59 pm »

could it be Symplocos tinctoria, Common Sweetleaf?

Does it taste sweet?

This is just a guess. Not sure.

Banjo picker · « **Reply #7 on:** March 12, 2009, 09:30:00 pm »

Sweet bay . Tim

WDH · « **Reply #8 on:** March 13, 2009, 12:24:43 am »

I am thinking fringe tree, Chionanthus virginicus. It is deciduous, however. Those leaves look a little beat up, so maybe they are tardily deciduous and are just hanging on.

It is not horse sugar since your specimen is opposite branched and horse sugar is alternate. It is not sweetbay since sweetbay is alternate and the undersides would be reflective silver.

The thing that bothers me is that the bark is darker than I would expect from fringe tree. Hmmmm. If it flowers, that will tell the tale.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #9 on:** March 13, 2009, 06:33:18 am »

I've settled on a viburnum species, leaves are often pubescent and opposite. We'll know when she flowers.

Banjo picker · « **Reply #10 on:** March 13, 2009, 07:16:50 am »

Quote from: Banjo picker on March 12, 2009, 09:30:00 pm

Sweet bay . Tim

I am going to have to hang in there like a hair in a biscuit on this one for a while yet anyway. I think the sweetbay leaves kind of grow in a wad or whorled I believe its called. And as to the silver underbelly, as WHD said I agree. Look at the third pic. down. It looks a little like it might be that. Buts theys a bunch of trees in just the bay family, and it might be one of them others as well.

The sweetbay down here tries to act a little like a evergreen like SD mentioned. Tim

WDH · « **Reply #11 on:** March 13, 2009, 09:03:53 am »

The oppopsite branching narrows it down to a potential handful. It can only be a couple of plants.

It might be Viburnum nudum, Possumhaw. If I had to bet a million $ on it, I would go with Possumhaw over Fringe Tree at this point without the telling flowers.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #12 on:** March 13, 2009, 09:10:42 am »

Sure wish I was standing right there over the little bush.

WDH · « **Reply #13 on:** March 13, 2009, 10:00:59 am »

OK, no fertilizing the samples

.

Woolywolf · « **Reply #14 on:** March 13, 2009, 04:54:19 pm »

I've looked in all my tree books. It doesn't meet all the critera of any given species, so maybe I've found a new species--o r maybe not

. I think what's throwing me off is the branching pattern. I learned in dendrology that if you can find a few instances of opposite branching then the tree is more than likely opposite. But I don't think that's the case here. I think it's an optical illusion. I agree with Banjopicker that maybe this guy really is alternate and so tightly alternate at times that it appears to be whorled or opposite. Instead of sweetbay, I think that it is Loblolly bay. Sweetbay, since its in the Magnolia family, usually has stipular scars that circle the twig, while this tree doesn't. Although it does have minute toothes, they are not like those of Viburnum prunifolium, and it doesn't have the rusty red hairs of rusty blackhaw. The more I think about it, the habitat seems like a prime candidate for loblolly bay--cool and wet--even though it is not a sandy coastal plain soil. Raleigh is right on the edge of the piedmont and coastal plain. I'm not very familiar with sweetleaf, so I'll have to go back and have a chew. I know the leaves didn't have any smell to them, which also make me think that it is loblolly bay.

WDH · « **Reply #15 on:** March 13, 2009, 06:01:07 pm »

The pics show it to be decidedly opposite branched from what I can see.

Tom · « **Reply #16 on:** March 13, 2009, 06:31:42 pm »

It's not a Sweet Gum!

I keep trying to make it a Paw Paw. I know the leaves don't seem to be right, not long, pear shaped and the sharp serrations don't fit. But, wouldn't it be great to have a Paw Paw there?

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #17 on:** March 13, 2009, 07:00:23 pm »

Viburnum

I have lots of books and no book lists all the shrubs out there.

WDH · « **Reply #18 on:** March 13, 2009, 11:07:35 pm »

Tom,

There are some fine paw paws just east of there! I know because I ate some there this last fall

.

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,33342.0.html

Tom · « **Reply #19 on:** March 13, 2009, 11:38:33 pm »

I sure wish I had some around here. I found some on the Satilla years ago, but that is a long way to go to fight coons for the fruit.

DanG · « **Reply #20 on:** March 14, 2009, 01:18:24 am »

Tom got it again! It's a Notsweetgum tree!

I think I'm beginning to get the hang of it now. It's the opposite-alternate-whorley branching pattern that tips him off. That's a dead giveaway for a classic Notsweetgum tree.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #21 on:** March 14, 2009, 07:36:28 am »

Shot gun method gets it every time.

Banjo picker · « **Reply #22 on:** March 14, 2009, 05:00:09 pm »

Tom's thinking here reminds me of reading of the Cat in the Hat's way of finding a lost treasure. You eliminate where its not till you finally arive at where it is. So I will be a sport and wipe out several possibilities.. Its not a pine.

Someone else's turn. Tim.

Ironmower · « **Reply #23 on:** March 15, 2009, 05:24:39 am »

Sure looks like a Paw Paw to me. Time will tell

Boy they grow good here, seem to like stream & river banks, and shaded areas. Heck, I live 7 miles from the little town of Paw Paw W.V.

...................I've selected a few that I'm going to give some nurturing too. Gonna make some wine with'em. ;

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #24 on:** March 15, 2009, 07:25:50 am »

Leaves are too small for pawpaw, especially growing in shade.

WDH · « **Reply #25 on:** March 15, 2009, 08:41:50 am »

Paw paw isn't opposite branched.

fishpharmer · « **Reply #26 on:** March 15, 2009, 09:10:57 am »

Nothing against all you fellas, but, where's Dodgy Loner?

I know he loves the ID game.

We might just have to wait for flowers.

I always find it fascinating to find a small pocket of an unusual species. Makes me wonder if a bird dropped a few seeds flying south or north whatever the season may be.

I was hoping it was a Paw Paw. I love those things.

Does anyone know if Paw Paws have ever been cultivated on a commercial scale? Just curious.

PC-Urban-Sawyer · « **Reply #27 on:** March 15, 2009, 10:16:37 am »

Quote from: fishpharmer on March 15, 2009, 09:10:57 am

Does anyone know if Paw Paws have ever been cultivated on a commercial scale? Just curious.

Not sure about commercial scale but http://www.willisorchards.com/category/Pawpaw%20Trees is a source for them if you need a few to plant...

Dodgy Loner · « **Reply #28 on:** March 15, 2009, 04:52:37 pm »

It's a sweetleaf, aka horse-sugar, aka Symplocos tinctoria.

I am very familar with that plant, having found it in all sorts of habitats all over the state of Georgia, from the sandy, xeric scrub-oak sites of the coastal plain, to the red clay oak-hickory forests of the Piedmont, to the rich, dark soils of the mountains in association with rhododendron and laurel thickets. Despite its widespread range and general adaptability, it is nowhere abundant.

The leaves may appear opposite or whorled where the tips are clustered the the tops of the branches, but like azaleas and oaks, they are in fact alternate. They are described as tardily deciduous; not all of the leaves fall until the new leaves appear in the spring. You should see some small, yellow flowers appearing along the stems in April. Its common names come from the sweet taste of its leaves. Bite into the midrib of a fresh leaf and you will notice a distinct sugary taste which is preferred by livestock and wild animals alike.

pigman · « **Reply #29 on:** March 15, 2009, 05:09:36 pm »

I guess it's time for Woolywolf to start the kicking. I think it would be nice if he got someone to video the kicking for us.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #30 on:** March 15, 2009, 08:21:40 pm »

It was fun while it lasted anyway.

fishpharmer · « **Reply #31 on:** March 15, 2009, 08:55:55 pm »

Seems like someone mentioned that already

The deer chomping was the final clue that helped me guess.

Woolywolf · « **Reply #32 on:** March 16, 2009, 12:52:16 pm »

Oowch! That hurt--it's been since high school since I played soccer--but I still have a good right kick. I think fishpharmer and Dodgyloner solved the mystery. Once it stops raining constantly, I'll hike out in the woods and chew a leaf to confirm.

News:

Author Topic: I'll kick myself when someone tells me what tree this is (Read 1934 times)