Author Topic: Broken bleeder/injection pump (Read 1193 times)

sprucebunny · « **on:** March 08, 2009, 12:58:31 pm »

Just when you think that you are gaining on the broken stuff .....

My diesel backhoe has had an off and on air-in-the-fuel problem. Finally got it running yesterday and notice that the bleed screw on the injection pump is leaking so I tried to tighten it a little and... yup... you guessed it... the stupid thing snapped off

So now I have a hole that's just a hair bigger than 1/16" surrounded by the remains of the bleed screw base.
I can't find an "easy-out" that small and it would probably snap off anyway. Drilling would pretty surely put fragments into the pump. And from there into the injectors .

Should I just shell out the $1200 for a new pump now or has someone got a plan where I get to do some more cussing and stamping my feet

Burlkraft · « **Reply #1 on:** March 08, 2009, 01:12:34 pm »

Quote from: sprucebunny on March 08, 2009, 12:58:31 pm

or has someone got a plan where I get to do some more cussing and stamping my feet

Make sure you get some video of that

I don't think I would try drillin' it unless it was on the bench. That's iffy at best.

I hope the pump has lots of hours on it and it needed a re freshening anyway

Unless it would happen to come right out...it ain't lookin' good.

Put some Rust Reaper on it

Warbird · « **Reply #2 on:** March 08, 2009, 01:16:22 pm »

Quote from: Burlkraft on March 08, 2009, 01:12:34 pm

I don't think I would try drillin' it unless it was on the bench.

Agreed. And if you do try drilling it, clamp 'er down good on a drill press and go slow with it.

Old Iron nut · « **Reply #3 on:** March 08, 2009, 01:41:08 pm »

Spruce bunny, if you are a good welder and have a mig unit, try welding a flat washer around the broken off screw. You may have to get a larger washer or make one so that you can weld a nut on the washer after the washer is welded on the screw. Let cool a bit and then you should be able to turn the screw out. If you are not good at welding something that small take it to someone that is. I've removed many bolts both small and large that way. By the way, is that a CAV pump? Cheers, Old Iron nut.

sprucebunny · « **Reply #4 on:** March 08, 2009, 01:58:04 pm »

Thanks for making me laugh, Steve

Not sure I want to weld on something full of diesel and it's a bit too small.

I'm thinking of tapping it with a vacume of some kind going and then flushing the pump and just putting a bolt in it.

The hole is slightly above center.

The machine is an '87 and has 5500 hours. Motor was the best part

Still hoping for a miracle idea as removing the pump doesn't sound like much fun.

Yes, it says "Lucas CAV" What does that mean ?

Dave Shepard · « **Reply #5 on:** March 08, 2009, 02:47:45 pm »

It probably means you've got a Perkins engine, and a Ford backhoe.

You might be able to use a left-handed drill bit. I've had surprisingly good luck using that method to get bolts out. I see the hole is horizontal, you may not get any filings in there, and it's a bleeder, so you be able to flush them out after drilling. Welding a nut on there is also a good approach.

sprucebunny · « **Reply #6 on:** March 08, 2009, 03:02:47 pm »

Thanks, Dave. It's a Case with a Cummins engine 4-390.
Maybe I'll try the left handed bits. But you guys must have guessed by now that Ole Murphy watches me pretty closely

Faron · « **Reply #7 on:** March 08, 2009, 03:04:48 pm »

How about having someone pump the primer pump while you drill with the left hand bit?

Brian_Rhoad · « **Reply #8 on:** March 08, 2009, 03:07:09 pm »

If you don't drill through the bottom of the bleeder you shouldn't get shavings in the pump. A 1/8" hole may be big enough for an easy-out. I have one that small so I know they are available. Use a shop vac to clean out the hole once the bleeder is out.
I don't know if a bolt work. Bleeders usualy seal at the bottom like a flare plug.

rebocardo · « **Reply #9 on:** March 08, 2009, 03:12:46 pm »

I would loosen the rust and such by trying to turn it with an impact chisel and rust lube. Then if that did not help, I would get a brass drift and pound it into the hole and try turning the drift with vise grips.

sprucebunny · « **Reply #10 on:** March 08, 2009, 03:18:25 pm »

Faron, that's what I was thinking. Also thinking of putting a magnet on the bit

Here's another pic. The part that broke off is sitting on the throttle end just above it's former home. It looks just like the one that is below it.

Rebocardo, it's the injection pump...no rust. I have considered trying to drive the pointy end of a small file in there

Dave Shepard · « **Reply #11 on:** March 08, 2009, 03:31:32 pm »

Wow, I was way off.

Corley5 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 08, 2009, 05:14:35 pm »

I'd try the left hand drill bit first

sprucebunny · « **Reply #13 on:** March 08, 2009, 05:39:52 pm »

I went out there and inspected very closely, there is almost a sixteenth of the thing left sticking out of the hole.

I'm going to try to grind a slot in it with a Dremel. The dust will be finer than drilling and there is less chance of damaging the threads. If that doesn't work, I'll buy the left hand drill bits. ( If it really doesn't work, I may be buying more than that !!!! )

Thanks to everyone for ideas and opinions

I'll let you know what happens.

PS: Could someone PLease distract Murphy from ...say... 9am Eastern until 10 tomorrow morning

Thanks

Larry · « **Reply #14 on:** March 08, 2009, 05:46:56 pm »

Couple of ideas...first I would try jamming the tapered end of a file into the hole and try turning. If that don’t work plug the hole with grease and cut a slot for a screwdriver with a Dremel. If that don’t work modify the slot you cut with a Dremel so that you can tap on it with a modified cold chisel. I bet it won’t be that hard to back out. If that don’t work use what Paul Harvey (bless his soul) would use...JB weld.

We must be thinking on the same wavelength here...you beat me by a couple of minutes.

Tom · « **Reply #15 on:** March 08, 2009, 06:23:10 pm »

Before I spent $1200 dollars on a pump, I would seal the hole with something and do my bleeding from a connection outside of the pump.

isawlogs · « **Reply #16 on:** March 08, 2009, 08:33:14 pm »

Joan that back-hoe has way too many hours on it , before spending all that money and time , take it apart and haul it here in detached peices I can get you top dollar for scrap and it makes going through the border patrol a lot easier when youonly bring peices through .

à

gmmills · « **Reply #17 on:** March 08, 2009, 08:58:32 pm »

It looks like there may be sealing washer still glued to the pump with paint. If so, take a knife or sharp flat screw driver and score around the outer edge of washer to break it loose. That should expose enough of the stud to grip it with a good pair of vice-grips. I think that style of bleeder screw is aluminum. Hope this helps.

sprucebunny · « **Reply #18 on:** March 09, 2009, 10:08:56 am »

I want to thank you all for keeping Murphy busy

Just to throw him off track, I found all the parts to Dremel it. The washer was loose and as gmmills said, once I took off the washer, there was enough to grab it and just turn it out

It's made of steel.
New part ($25 ! ) should be here the end of the week.

Corley5 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 09, 2009, 10:14:08 am »

That wasn't so bad then

sprucebunny · « **Reply #20 on:** March 09, 2009, 10:19:58 am »

No, it wasn't so bad at all

I am seldom that lucky

so all the advance worrying and telling people might have changed my luck on this one

Thanks everyone !!!!

beenthere · « **Reply #21 on:** March 09, 2009, 11:00:54 am »

Looks like a stud with a lock-nut to hold it at some adjusted position.
I'm curious as to how it works as a bleeder? Does fuel under pressure leak around the washer when the lock nut is backed off?

It appears that the stud could easily be twisted off.

isawlogs · « **Reply #22 on:** March 09, 2009, 01:36:32 pm »

Thats good , about time you had something go the easy way .

I guess we aint gonne have that video of you stomping your feet and and jumping in place over your hat now are we . $:-\$

sprucebunny · « **Reply #23 on:** March 09, 2009, 02:33:05 pm »

Sorry

no hat stomping or feet stamping that bunnies are known for

< that will have to do

Beenthere, it's like a flare fitting for gas. This is what it would look like if it weren't broken.

I agree that it's a poor design. The least they could do would be to have a longer nut and the seat for the screw up in the nut more so the wall thickness was greater.

stonebroke · « **Reply #24 on:** March 09, 2009, 07:33:22 pm »

I think if you hold the base with a wrench while you are loosening the bleeder screw you will not have that problem again.

sprucebunny · « **Reply #25 on:** March 09, 2009, 07:52:14 pm »

Stonebroke, I've been wondering about that. Loosening the screw, one might need to hold the base with a wrench, but the base of it is already tight when you go to tighten the bleed screw so why would holding it with the wrench make any difference

The screw is pushing against the flare part in either case and trying to push the 2 sections of the base apart no matter if you hold on to it or don't ?

beenthere · « **Reply #26 on:** March 09, 2009, 09:08:06 pm »

Hold the screw (small center stud) with a wrench, while loosening the lock nut (larger nut). That will relieve the "lock" and let the small stud turn. The lock nut binds it all together real tight when putting it back together. At least as it appears to me.

Might find that with the lock nut loose, that the center stud will turn easily with ones fingers..for bleeding and shutting the flow off.

stonebroke · « **Reply #27 on:** March 09, 2009, 09:35:13 pm »

When you loosen the bleeder screw hold the base in case the bleeder is frozen. That way you will not break the whole thing off. Once it is loosen to tighten it be real carefull. if it is still leaking it is probably a piece of dirt in the seat or the seat is damaged. It does not take a whole lot to tighten bleeder screws. ounce lbs of torque. More pressure does not make a better seal.

beenthere · « **Reply #28 on:** March 09, 2009, 10:24:00 pm »

.................

SB
Besides bleeding, is it possible these two "bleeder" screws you are pointing out ~~are the low and high idle adjustment screws?~~ (edit ** I now know I am wrong on that, after more casual thought and finding a Lucas schematic.

)

Do you have a schematic or parts list for the pump? Trying to recall from a long time ago.

Seems I remember making adjustments and finding out that tightening the lock nuts had some slight effect (frustrating, to say the least) on the desired results, having to do with reducing smoke under load at low rpm.

sprucebunny · « **Reply #29 on:** March 09, 2009, 10:31:10 pm »

They are just bleeders. The long bolt to the left of the throttle linkage is the low idle adjustment.

Those are not lock nuts . They are seats. They do not turn to bleed it. Only the screw/bolt with the tapered inner end turns. It is either seated or bleeding.

This is the inside of it. Seat is on the left and the bleed screw/bolt is still in the base.
The bleed screw/bolt has a flat side that lets fuel out.

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Author Topic: Broken bleeder/injection pump (Read 1193 times)